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  1. - Top - End - #211
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: [Forrestfire Studios] Playtest: The Avowed, a 3pp warlock with a psychic bent

    Quote Originally Posted by AOKost View Post
    I know this might seem sub-par to everyone because it wouldn't allow a particular 'element' to advance particularly far, but I would love to be able to learn to control each element up to the equivalent of Avowed level 5 in each element... give the opportunity to advance a level in each element the character wanted instead of forcing a progression in one element.

    I understand that even if a character were to choose only 2 elements that they couldn't even make it to the Elemental Ally ability at level 12 for both elements until level 24, but it should still be an available choice...
    That sounds like something for an archetype imo. Reduce ability to specialize or general power in exchange for being able to use all the elements.

  2. - Top - End - #212
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    Default Re: [Forrestfire Studios] Playtest: The Avowed, a 3pp warlock with a psychic bent

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Dinosaur View Post
    That sounds like something for an archetype imo. Reduce ability to specialize or general power in exchange for being able to use all the elements.
    Exactly... I could see an 80th level Avowed being able to have the capstone ability of each element... It wouldn't be for everyone, but there's got to be at least 1 character in the multiverse that wants to try...

    In my games, using Custom Characters, by level 20 each ability could be 'purchased/learned' for an appropriate amount of experience and/or gold but most people have never heard of Custom Characters let alone played XD

    Edit: P.S. I didn't realize this discussion was still ongoing, so I sent my major suggestions directly to Forestfire. It predominantly had to do with either altering the Tinker Archetype or maybe making it into a 'sub/demi archetype' or altering it so the Aether Spark was available to each other archetype as a Shape, and all the rest of the archetype could be purchased through feats at the appropriate level... primarily the level 1 and 4 abilities... I love playing Crafters, and making equipment for my party to save resources and so everyone can get virtually exactly what they want instead of whatever randomly comes along on an adventure or town...

    Overall, I absolutely love the Avowed! It's the (almost) perfect successor to the Warlock in my personal opinion. The increase in "Invocations/Clauses" to a minimum of 1 per level was much needed.

    I'm actually currently playing an Avowed and really enjoying it with one primary homebrew alteration that my DM and I made without realizing there was the Tinker Archetype... and that was giving the Avowed an ability almost exactly like the Tinkers 4th level ability... Thus I'm playing a Tengu Avowed named Aakoni that has a Self Pact, and is predominantly interested in crafting "shinies"... The groups currently level 6 (and our DM gave us a feat at each level instead of every other). We were given 2 traits, 2 Flaws, and 24 points to build our characters. If anyone's interested in checking Aakoni out, you can find him here: https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=1291533

    The only other major alteration we made to Avowed was my DM allowed them to alter their chosen Clauses each day. I know some might think this heresy, but I've let others do something similar with Warlocks with no regrets. Both classes are so limited in their selections (the number they may select as opposed to the lists they can choose from which are great! by the way and virtually interchangeable with anything that Warlock may have had that someone likes thematically. This alteration isn't something I would suggest adding to the Avowed as some might feel it's too powerful... But I don't personally see it as such.

    I'm not a player that tries to take the limelight, by any means... I usually like taking Clauses that buff/protect my group, and spread my shapes around, currently taking Aether Blade 2 (because of Tengu and Self Pact), Aether Retribution and Aether Blast 2. This opens up more attack options which is always great! And with the Weatherproofing Least Clause to protect anyone/anything I cast it on, I have very little worry about harming my allies or our property, and that will always take up one of my clause slots, and another is Airlock as it's just too handy! Another is Sightseer... Just too useful for everyday use to pass up!

    The only Clauses I've taken that were offensive has been Lifeleech and Inferno Pulse (because we leveled up and the DM said 'it's an epiphany type event when you level, so it's similar to leveling in Skyrim (you could level virtually any time) and Inferno Pulse is what was needed at that moment and will be traded out on my next long rest for something more buff/debuff or utility). I took Lifeleech because it always helps to have some kind of temp HP, especially if I can spread it around to my group! The only other Clause I currently have is Reveal Your Secrets which I could easily switch out for anything else since I could simply Use Magic Device to use a Scroll to cast Identify on anything I might want to identify... Though it is useful to RPing a merchant/craftsman type of character.

    I know my choices aren't the optimal, and I intended them not to be to give other players (especially the new players) time to adjust and have fun.

    If I've gone into too much detail as to the decisions I made in building my character and they whys, I'm sorry to have taken up your time. I'm not the average player. I play to the groups need more than anything.
    Last edited by AOKost; 2017-10-30 at 03:10 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #213
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    Default Re: [Forrestfire Studios] Playtest: The Avowed, a 3pp warlock with a psychic bent

    Some other small problems with the Old One's pact attunement:

    "While in this form, you cannot take any actions (not even free actions) other than speaking, using telepathy, and movement."

    I think this means that if you're prone when you disperse, nothing says you stop being prone once you're a cloud, and you can no longer take the action to stand up from prone, so your move speed is limited and you're kind of stuck. Ditto for Grappled, Pinned, Entangled, or similar things.

    Creatures within or adjacent to your space while you're in this form become dazzled.

    Is this meant to include yourself?

    And finally, while minor, it's a bit awkward how the healing doesn't factor in extra HP from other sources, like Toughness, Psionic Body, or most relevantly, Enhanced Idealisation.
    Last edited by Mezzaluna; 2017-11-01 at 06:13 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #214
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    Default Re: [Forrestfire Studios] Playtest: The Avowed, a 3pp warlock with a psychic bent

    I'm concerned with the change of how Unshaped Aether Pulses are now their own unique shapes; specifically, whereas before you could "upgrade" the unshaped pulses by spending feats (and an Avowed has between 8 and 17 bonus feats to spend on them, depending on their Pact and if they've VMC'd or not), now you're required to spend your Shapes Known/Upgraded slots, of which you still only have the amount from before. It feels like it's harder and harder to justify using certain shapes (or rather, to justify either going all-in on a handful of shapes or spreading out to dabble in many) when you are so constrained by how many you can afford to spread out among the options. There's still no feat that allows you to gain extra Shapes Known/Upgraded, which limits this even more.

  5. - Top - End - #215
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    Default Re: [Forrestfire Studios] Playtest: The Avowed, a 3pp warlock with a psychic bent

    With the change to basic shapes, there is now no shapeless aether pulse for Quicken SLA to apply to. Likely other shapeless aether pulses/aether pulse base damage references exist, such as in Mystic Reflexes.
    Last edited by Powerdork; 2017-11-07 at 03:12 AM.
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    Default Re: [Forrestfire Studios] Playtest: The Avowed, a 3pp warlock with a psychic bent

    One random request I have: to add a "the creature does not age while under this effect" clause to slumber for eternity. The name just isn't accurate at the moment!

  7. - Top - End - #217
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    Default Re: [Forrestfire Studios] Playtest: The Avowed, a 3pp warlock with a psychic bent

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam1949 View Post
    I'm concerned with the change of how Unshaped Aether Pulses are now their own unique shapes; specifically, whereas before you could "upgrade" the unshaped pulses by spending feats (and an Avowed has between 8 and 17 bonus feats to spend on them, depending on their Pact and if they've VMC'd or not), now you're required to spend your Shapes Known/Upgraded slots, of which you still only have the amount from before. It feels like it's harder and harder to justify using certain shapes (or rather, to justify either going all-in on a handful of shapes or spreading out to dabble in many) when you are so constrained by how many you can afford to spread out among the options. There's still no feat that allows you to gain extra Shapes Known/Upgraded, which limits this even more.
    I too would like an Extra Shapes feat.

    In lieu of that, I think it would be nice to gain at least one shape each avowed level, with a level requirements for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th shape options to prevent getting them before level 6. It would "only" increase things from 3 all-in shapes to 5; though that could be ridiculous with betrothed.
    Last edited by MilleniaAntares; 2017-11-12 at 03:56 AM.
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    Default Re: [Forrestfire Studios] Playtest: The Avowed, a 3pp warlock with a psychic bent

    Elemental Aspirant ability does nothing with changes to attunement from base.

  9. - Top - End - #219
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    Default Re: [Forrestfire Studios] Playtest: The Avowed, a 3pp warlock with a psychic bent

    Aether Wrath should probably specify that the effect is created from the bottom of the cylinder in the base description.

    The change to the base Self Pact means that the subpacts are a bit wonky:

    Both Body and Mind Pacts do not gain +charisma to their saves.

    Mind Pact retains Aetheric Flurry, which is slightly at odds with the nature of the pact... which was intended to be a bit more ranged, at least back when there were pact shapes.
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    Default Re: [Forrestfire Studios] Playtest: The Avowed, a 3pp warlock with a psychic bent

    On page 32 "Aquatic Affinity: You gain a swim speed, can breath underwater, and can walk on water." Ought to have breathe instead of breath.

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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: [Forrestfire Studios] Playtest: The Avowed, a 3pp warlock with a psychic bent

    Related to Metool's point above, RAW as of the current (version 16) playtest document, the Draconic Infusion ability of the Dragon-Avowed doesn't actually work, at least not the aether pulse part, since aether blow was changed from being an ACF to aether blow and aether ray being shapes, one of which you get at lvl1, so now even if you have an aether pulse, you can't use it without a shape, but Draconic Infusion still gives you a pulse, but no shape.

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    Default Re: [Forrestfire Studios] Playtest: The Avowed, a 3pp warlock with a psychic bent

    Something I just noticed:
    "Unless noted in the ability, a pact sense does not work through barriers, and requires line of effect to function."

    The Elemental pact sense doesn't have that exception, so an Earth Elemental Avowed can't sense underground, which seems odd.
    Unless they sense the absence of earth from the creature displacing it I guess? Though that wouldn't tell them about the creature and they arguably might not have line of effect to examine the tunnel properly.


    (Some small clarification on "Generally, you can always sense creatures in the area; assume that have some example of your element in their bodies" would be useful too for fire and earth, even something simple like fire = body heat and earth = iron in blood, so a GM would have a better basis on deciding which creatures like maybe incorporeal ghosts would be exempt)
    (Also the missing 'they' in quoted sentence is a grammar problem in the original)
    Last edited by Mezzaluna; 2017-11-20 at 07:26 PM.

  13. - Top - End - #223
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    Default Re: [Forrestfire Studios] Playtest: The Avowed, a 3pp warlock with a psychic bent

    (Hopefully a double post is okay for a different topic almost two weeks later!)

    Betrothed:
    "If the companion is mortally wounded (reduced to 0 hit points or fewer, or outright killed by an effect), they vanish, retreating body and soul into the psychic link between them and their betrothed. The companion cannot truly die while their betrothed remains alive, but takes one week to recover before they can manifest again, appearing adjacent to the betrothed when they do so."

    This seems... a bit overkill. Depending on the narrative pace, one week in game can remove the companion from weeks and weeks of play sessions.

    If this was the penalty for actually dying it would make a bit more sense, but 'reduced to 0hp or fewer' instead of 'unconscious at 0 then disappear at negative CON' can be pretty hard to completely avoid, like from an unlucky critical hit.

    I think either the mortally wounded threshold needs more leeway, or the recovery time needs to be shortened to a day.
    Maybe both, but one or the other works fine.

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    Default Re: [Forrestfire Studios] Playtest: The Avowed, a 3pp warlock with a psychic bent

    I noticed the Quicken Spell-Like Ability thing as well. Should probably say it can only be used with Ray or Blow?

    What's an Ancestors pact?

    Would the damage over time from Fire version of Elemental Eruption stack with Inferno Pulse?

    Split Loyalties almost seems worthy of an archetype, ala Crossblooded Sorcerer. Just to clarify, you can take it after level 1, correct?

    Seems really odd to me that the Body subpact loses so much of the physical enhancements from the base Self pact, though Strength to AC is certainly nice.

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    Default Re: [Forrestfire Studios] Playtest: The Avowed, a 3pp warlock with a psychic bent

    I think this text from Avowed 1 is missing a word or two.
    Quote Originally Posted by Attunement, Chapter 2 page 15
    In addition, when a creature succeeds on a saving throw against one of your aether pulses or clauses, or when you miss an attack roll or fail a combat maneuver check against a creature with such an ability, you may have that creature take 1 point of damage per class level (no save). This damage is the type that you chose for your attunement. You can only affect a given creature once per round with this effect.
    No ability is specified prior to the bolded text.

    Also from Avowed 1, the Least clause Volksgeist includes Perform as one of the skills which receives the benefits, including making untrained checks if you normally couldn't. The entry for Perform has the following text:
    Trained A bard must have ranks in specific Perform categories to use some of his Bardic Performance abilities.
    Would Volksgeist allow for the use of Bardic Performance in a category they have no ranks in? The skill itself can be used untrained.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mezzaluna View Post
    Something I just noticed:
    "Unless noted in the ability, a pact sense does not work through barriers, and requires line of effect to function."

    The Elemental pact sense doesn't have that exception, so an Earth Elemental Avowed can't sense underground, which seems odd.
    Unless they sense the absence of earth from the creature displacing it I guess? Though that wouldn't tell them about the creature and they arguably might not have line of effect to examine the tunnel properly.
    From a thematic standpoint, being able to sense through a body of the same material seems correct. However, this is a level 1 class ability. I feel it would not be appropriate to grant tremorsense to 1st level characters for earth & water or blindsight for air. This part of the ability seems intended to grant a thematically-limited blindsense. It also gives a thematically-narrow detect magic.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mezzaluna View Post
    (Some small clarification on "Generally, you can always sense creatures in the area; assume that have some example of your element in their bodies" would be useful too for fire and earth, even something simple like fire = body heat and earth = iron in blood, so a GM would have a better basis on deciding which creatures like maybe incorporeal ghosts would be exempt)
    (Also the missing 'they' in quoted sentence is a grammar problem in the original)
    I think the idea behind using the elemental pact sense to detect creatures is based on a view that everything obeys a classical elements system. Pathfinder has a cosmology with extraplanar creatures such as dust mephits, which would be a combination of air and earth, and which might specifically not be detectable for an avowed with a pact with a water or fire elemental. Meanwhile, the generalization works from an assumption that creatures native to the Material plane are made of different balances of everything from the inner planes: positive & negative energy, air & earth, fire & water. This would require some re-working in a setting with five East Asian elements or something different, but D&D has long had this assumption of 4 Western elements, then positive and negative energy, which Pathfinder inherited.

    For ghosts, there's a dedicated spell which will find them. Otherwise, I feel like this should be left for the DM to decide, or at least not this particular 3rd party material. If you had to break them down by what elements and/or energies make them up, you could consistently treat them as you would any native to the Ethereal plane in your game, but with a definite presence of negative energy. Perhaps you want to say earth is rarer on the Ethereal plane for your game, while perhaps I would want to say all 4 elements are present, but in such faint amounts as to not be detectable over normal ranges. Similarly, a DM would need to decide how the ability works for creatures from the Shadow Plane and the Astral Plane.
    Last edited by KillingAScarab; 2017-12-06 at 10:25 AM. Reason: New question

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    Default Re: [Forrestfire Studios] Playtest: The Avowed, a 3pp warlock with a psychic bent

    Quote Originally Posted by KillingAScarab View Post
    No ability is specified prior to the bolded text.
    I think that's referring to the aether pulses/clauses?

    So you do the damage when a creature successfully saves or you miss an attack or fail a maneuver check.

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    Default Re: [Forrestfire Studios] Playtest: The Avowed, a 3pp warlock with a psychic bent

    Quote Originally Posted by KillingAScarab View Post
    No ability is specified prior to the bolded text.
    As Von Krieger is trying to explain, "when you miss an attack roll or fail a combat maneuver check against a creature with such an ability" can be read to highlight "when you miss an attack roll with such an ability" (carrying the subject of "one of your aether pulses or clauses" from the previous clause) rather than "a creature with such an ability".

    It's still worth correcting, though, to "when you miss an attack roll or fail a combat maneuver check against a creature as part of using such an ability", or some such.

    Quote Originally Posted by KillingAScarab View Post
    The entry for Perform has the following text:
    That feels plain erroneous on the part of Paizo: Nothing in the bardic performance entry mentions trained or ranks, and it might simply be a remnant of the 3.5 version, where bards needed Perform ranks to use their performance.
    Last edited by Powerdork; 2017-12-06 at 11:40 PM.
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    Default Re: [Forrestfire Studios] Playtest: The Avowed, a 3pp warlock with a psychic bent

    Quote Originally Posted by Metool View Post
    That feels plain erroneous on the part of Paizo: Nothing in the bardic performance entry mentions trained or ranks, and it might simply be a remnant of the 3.5 version, where bards needed Perform ranks to use their performance.
    I own a 1st printing copy of the Pathfinder Core Rulebook, and it originally did contain an error referencing minimum performance ranks. However, the text on d20PFSRD.com is from the errata. I checked the Pathfinder Reference Document and Perform has that text under "Special." The referenced Bardic Performance does have two cases in which specific performance skills are referenced: countersong and distraction.

    Countersong (Su): At 1st level, a bard learns to counter magic effects that depend on sound (but not spells that have verbal components). Each round of the countersong he makes a Perform (keyboard, percussion, wind, string, or sing) skill check.
    Distraction (Su): At 1st level, a bard can use his performance to counter magic effects that depend on sight. Each round of the distraction, he makes a Perform (act, comedy, dance, or oratory) skill check.
    None of the other entries for Bardic Performance reference specific performance skills. These two seem to be the entirety of "some" of the Bardic Performance abilities, unless there is 3rd party material of which I am not aware.

    So... can a theoretical Avowed x/Bard 1 without ranks in perform use Volksgeist and then use countersong or distraction?

    Spoiler: Elemental Pact
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    Another question from Avowed 1, chapter 2, page 16, the control elements clause for air elemental pacts states
    In each round that you concentrate on this effect, the winds bear you aloft (even if you're outside of the currently affected area), allowing you to fly up to your speed as part of the action to concentrate.
    Which speed would that be? If it is the character's land speed, what category is the maneuverability? If the clause offers another fly speed, that and the maneuverability should be stated. If this refers to a pre-existing fly speed, such as that gained from the ascension class ability, should a better fly speed (e.g. if take flight clause is already active) be allowed to be substituted?


    Spoiler: Celestial Pact
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    Looking over the Celestial pact, the empowerments have some references to the atonement spell which look to require some clarification. Purifying radiance indicates it can be used for the "restore cleric or druid powers" portion of atonement without the 2500 gp offering, but in the atonement spell itself, that use of the spell is intended to be performed by "another cleric of the same deity or another druid." Is the intention that a multiclass avowed could use the clause to accomplish this, even if they aren't at a sufficient class level to cast the spell? What about an avowed who, while having a psychic bond with a celestial, actually worships the same deity or reveres nature?

    Cleansing fire states that a target may meditate for 1 hour to become any alignment they wish. The redemption or temptation portion of atonement doesn't offer as wide of a range of alignment choices: you may remain your current alignment or you may change to the alignment of the caster. Cleansing fire also doesn't state if the user of the clause must be present during that meditation or if the subject is somehow aware of the conditions they would need to fulfill for this on their own.

    Cleansing fire also seems to count as a magical alignment change during that 8 hour period spent with the helpless condition. Could another avowed with the celestial pact (or perhaps the same one) use purifying radiance on the same subject to affect the reverse magical alignment change portion of atonement?

    The rune of protection clause contains the following:
    You can use this clause whenever an ally you can see within 30 feet of you would be reduced to 0 or fewer hit points. That ally is instead reduced to –1 hit points (and stable), then transported to a safe location, as if by the wish spell.
    This wording indicates that if someone is staggered (0 hit points), they can then be changed to dying (-1 or fewer hit points). It might be better to change the viable targets to those which, "would be reduced to negative hit points."


    Spoiler: Shapes
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    The aether wrath shape states that the benefit of the 4th selection is that you may choose to extend the cylinder down from the top. However, according to the aiming a spell portion of the magic rules, this is the normal behavior for cylinder shaped areas.

    Cone, Cylinder, Line, or Sphere: Most spells that affect an area have a particular shape.
    ...
    When casting a cylinder-shaped spell, you select the spell's point of origin. This point is the center of a horizontal circle, and the spell shoots down from the circle, filling a cylinder. A cylinder-shaped spell ignores any obstructions within its area.
    To go with the castle wall example in the document, this should be able to be accomplished by a 6th level avowed, or a 2nd level avowed using the benefit of a second selection of aether wrath and a full-round action. I can't think of many castle walls which exceed 100 feet in height. I'm also not very familiar with spells which use a cylindrical area. Control winds, however, is a 5th level druid spell that has one. It's an extended effect (10 minutes per caster level), and the range and radius increases equally with caster level, but the cylinder is only 40 feet high (perhaps coincidence, but this is equal to the range if caster level was 1). I'm fine with having significantly smaller radius than height, but as it is the origin point of the area of effect the height probably should not outstrip the clause's range.


    Spoiler: Fey Pact
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forrestfire View Post
    Pacts
    • Court Fey pact's 4th-level ability has had its bonus damage reduced. This turned out to just add way too much potential damage to weapon shape users.
    As it is now, this empowerment does not seem to be limited to attacks with weapons or weapon-like spells. I could see the additional damage being read as applying to the conditional damage of the soul shackle clause if the subject were either pinned or flanked while 5 feet away from the anchor point. If this damage is also intended to be based upon precision, you may want to borrow language from the rogue's sneak attack class feature. Though, I do see you are allowing this damage to be applied even if the avowed is not one of the flanking pair.
    Last edited by KillingAScarab; 2018-01-02 at 04:48 AM. Reason: Readability

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    Default Re: [Forrestfire Studios] Playtest: The Avowed, a 3pp warlock with a psychic bent

    For the Aspirant:

    "In addition, starting at 6th level, he can use least clauses that are normally activated as standard actions as swift actions. At 11th level, he can use lesser clauses in this way, and at 16th level, greater clauses."

    With the addition of burst as a move-action clause, I recommend changing standard to "standard or move actions".

    Additionally, Transcendence comes as a 16th level class feature, same as Greater Aspiration. Perhaps you meant to have Transcendence as the capstone class feature?
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    Default Re: [Forrestfire Studios] Playtest: The Avowed, a 3pp warlock with a psychic bent

    Just wanted to clarify, can Weapon Shapes be used with Vital Strike? If so, is the entire damage multiplied, or is it just the original 1d6, with the rest being considered extra damage (like Alchemist bombs)?

    Also, is it intentional that there is no, "Extra Shapes" feat or am I just blind?
    Last edited by Kaouse; 2018-01-14 at 12:08 PM.

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    Default Re: [Forrestfire Studios] Playtest: The Avowed, a 3pp warlock with a psychic bent

    Aether Equilibrium could be expanded in a semi-thematic manner, by allowing Aether Channel to be used in a similar way, though with a range limit equal to the avowed's reach. Sort of like an avowed version of whirlwind attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaouse View Post
    Just wanted to clarify, can Weapon Shapes be used with Vital Strike? If so, is the entire damage multiplied, or is it just the original 1d6, with the rest being considered extra damage (like Alchemist bombs)?

    Also, is it intentional that there is no, "Extra Shapes" feat or am I just blind?
    I believe weapon shapes can be used with Vital Strike.

    That said, Aether Channel and Aether Rounds say to use the weapon's base damage for the purpose of vital strike. So if you have a dagger with Aether Channel, you would deal 2d6+X base damage, and with vital strike it'd be 2d6+x+1d4 damage.

    Aether Blade: "Attacks with your aether blade are melee touch attacks, and their base damage is equal to 1d6 per odd caster level you possess."

    Aether Barrage doesn't have a similar sentence, but it would make sense to treat it like Aether Blade in that regard.
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    Default Re: [Forrestfire Studios] Playtest: The Avowed, a 3pp warlock with a psychic bent

    I just started checking out The Avowed, and wow, 70 pages is a lot of material to comb through for a single class; third-party no less. That alone is impressive in a way, and I imagine many people are elated to see so much content for a spiritual successor to Richard Baker's creation. But I'm a little worried. I know, this is Pathfinder we're talking about, and there are probably plenty of classes with just as much if not more content in total, scattered piecemeal throughout dozens of books. But, let's be frank, the quality of that material varies wildly, with much of it serving as little more than chaff to separate from the wheat. My initial impression of The Avowed is that I fear focus may be lost in favor of breadth. Hopefully my mind changes as I explore more of its content in-depth.

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    Default Re: [Forrestfire Studios] Playtest: The Avowed, a 3pp warlock with a psychic bent

    Quote Originally Posted by MilleniaAntares View Post
    I believe weapon shapes can be used with Vital Strike.

    That said, Aether Channel and Aether Rounds say to use the weapon's base damage for the purpose of vital strike. So if you have a dagger with Aether Channel, you would deal 2d6+X base damage, and with vital strike it'd be 2d6+x+1d4 damage.

    Aether Blade: "Attacks with your aether blade are melee touch attacks, and their base damage is equal to 1d6 per odd caster level you possess."

    Aether Barrage doesn't have a similar sentence, but it would make sense to treat it like Aether Blade in that regard.
    So what you're saying is that Aether Blade would indeed be multiplied by Vital Strike, correct? Though I guess it's sort of a moot point, looking at all the other shapes that get free damage increases without having to spend a feat.

    Also, I suppose the lack of an "Extra Shapes" feat then is intentional, to keep a lid on the class's power?

  24. - Top - End - #234
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    Default Re: [Forrestfire Studios] Playtest: The Avowed, a 3pp warlock with a psychic bent

    I think a decent way to help separate Aether Beam from Aether Breath would be to change its third option to allow you to make two separate line shapes with the same length as a regular Aether Beam, though with a clause that tossing the shape twice onto the same area doesn't double its damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaouse View Post
    So what you're saying is that Aether Blade would indeed be multiplied by Vital Strike, correct? Though I guess it's sort of a moot point, looking at all the other shapes that get free damage increases without having to spend a feat.
    Yes indeed, not to mention you can just invest in Overcharge Modulation or similar feats for similar if not better output. It mostly just matters if you really want to hit very hard, once, or if there is something that uses Vital Strike that you also want to use.

    Also, I suppose the lack of an "Extra Shapes" feat then is intentional, to keep a lid on the class's power?
    Perhaps? Even if an avowed knows 22 shapes (3 first level + 1/level) instead of 13 (3 first level 1 every even level), I am not sure their strength will be that much better.

    Part of this may be the difficulty of figuring out how to balance the feat to shape selection ratio with the feat power of the shapes (or shape options) you already gain from feats.

    Aether Duelist lets you TWF with just Aether Barrage or Aether Blade. Is this equivalent to taking an extra selection of either shape?

    Aether Equilibrium is akin to a ranged-only whirlwind attack.

    Aether Lance lets you use a ranged or melee weapon shape at a range, and even allows AoO-free movement. Is that a single selection, or maybe two? Three?

    Aether Torrent seems roughly equivalent to three or four selections of a theoretical Aether Torrent that was designed as a base shape.

    Or it could be a way for Forrest to avoid a must-have feat, since many people would probably like to hit the fourth selection ASAP.
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  25. - Top - End - #235
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    Default Re: [Forrestfire Studios] Playtest: The Avowed, a 3pp warlock with a psychic bent

    Are any of the Weapon Shapes affected by size increases?

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    Default Re: [Forrestfire Studios] Playtest: The Avowed, a 3pp warlock with a psychic bent

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaouse View Post
    Are any of the Weapon Shapes affected by size increases?
    Not really. They're either like spells (fireballs don't deal more damage when you increase in size) or additional damage (sneak attack doesn't change based on size). The only thing that changes are your stats (if applicable) and the base weapon damage.
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    Default Re: [Forrestfire Studios] Playtest: The Avowed, a 3pp warlock with a psychic bent

    It's been a while!

    Of note, according to my interpretation, an aspirant with Aether Rampage (1+ choices), Savage Claws (Least+), and Reshape Aspiration (Claws) has two sources of non-stacking bleed damage. I am not sure if them not stacking is intended....

    I haven't run the numbers, but perhaps adding what is effectively +character level bleed damage during aspiration probably isn't too crazy given everything else an aspirant can dish out.
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    Default Re: [Forrestfire Studios] Playtest: The Avowed, a 3pp warlock with a psychic bent

    I have to admit, I'm a little surprised there isn't a "luck" or "fate pact in the works yet.

  29. - Top - End - #239
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    Default Re: [Forrestfire Studios] Playtest: The Avowed, a 3pp warlock with a psychic bent

    This is a whole lot to take in! Despite my initial knee-jerk reaction to serious things I enjoy being nerfed, I see a lot of changes here that make a lot of sense. Bug fixes, performance issues, and necessary changes.

    But things like the cascading penalties on clauses like Unbind Spell as well as the general decrease in save DCs have me feeling legitimately upset. I always enjoyed having the option to play the avowed like a spellcaster with staying power, rather than as a mix of a little magic based around blasting enemies really hard. Though it harms the other roles a lot less than 'dedicated magic,' I feel like the mileage you get out of your chosen specialization is going to get hurt unless it's one of the simple striking or blasting routes.

    And even then, the nuking of save DCs and successive attempts at doing things getting worse, is far too much.

    I feel like this was too overtuned against playing the avowed as a caster or utility character, and really hope that this gets balanced out a little better.
    Last edited by Shiney103; 2018-07-13 at 09:24 AM.

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    Default Re: [Forrestfire Studios] Playtest: The Avowed, a 3pp warlock with a psychic bent

    For anyone who was confused (like I was), apparently the avowed has been updated! Sadly the URL given in the pdf does not work, but the avowed has been split into part 1 and part 2.
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