Spheres of Power Ask Me Anything #2

[Lirya]

An advanced talent for death sphere that works like Mind Control but is undead only (is a ghost strike, requires CL 10th and Command Undead). We should make sure something like that is added to the death handbook as it would be needed.

[Ualaa]

Q. 130

I have a couple of players who are really into the Spheres of Power now. They're going crazy over the sphere specific drawbacks, which usually grant an extra 'free' talent within the associated sphere. One of them has nine sphere specific drawbacks (at character level 6) and is actually 'forgetting' that they apply to his character. I don't want to have to slow the game down and check everyone's character sheet every time either of them casts a sphere effect. For comparison, the other player has six sphere drawbacks, also at level six.

Will it adversely affect the system, if I both limit sphere specific drawbacks to three and disallow the buy-back of those drawbacks. No drawbacks are mandatory, but disallowing the buy-back makes magic work uniquely for an individual who takes one or more. I look at it as a quirk of how their magic works for them, in a way that is different from most other casters out there. My player, with nine drawbacks (and nine extra talents) claims that any limit on drawbacks is going to break the system and sphere guys will be useless to play.



Q. 131
Another of my players is into traditional magic, and has reservations on the stacking of caster level for the sphere casters.

The min/max character (with 9 sphere drawbacks), has Specialization in Destruction (+1 CL), a Sphere Staff (+2 CL), Orb Expert (+2 CL, with Orbs), and Energy Specialization (+2 CL, one blast group type). He is effectively CL 13... That gets him 7d8 blasts or 13d8, with a spell point.

And when low on Spell Points, CL 14/CL 15 through 'Empowered Abilities'.
Which is then 8d8, unlimited casts of his smaller Explosive Orb, through Orb Expert.

The player into traditional magic says there is no way a sixth level (any caster) can compete, with 13 dice of damage a dozen times a day, and then unlimited 7 and 8 dice blasts.

At lower levels, using a soft cap of half your caster (or maybe character) level on caster level boosts, seems balanced. How will that play out at higher levels? A sphere caster seems to value caster level as their main avenue of improvement. The traditional caster guy thinks capping caster level, at character level is the only fair means to go.

[stack]

I have more comments that I will come back to, but quickly: orb expert does NOT increase damage. Save DC and area yes, damage no.

[Segev]

There probably are ways to increase standard D&D casters' damage to compete, but to be honest, if the PPO-wielding sphere-caster wants to be the blast-master, there are better things a wizard (or even a sorcerer) can do to compete. Look up the "batman wizard" for probably the most well-known example.

[khadgar567]

about Q131 is one point doubles the all blast dice or i need to pay for each dice i am doubling?

[stack]

Q. 130

I have a couple of players who are really into the Spheres of Power now. They're going crazy over the sphere specific drawbacks, which usually grant an extra 'free' talent within the associated sphere. One of them has nine sphere specific drawbacks (at character level 6) and is actually 'forgetting' that they apply to his character. I don't want to have to slow the game down and check everyone's character sheet every time either of them casts a sphere effect. For comparison, the other player has six sphere drawbacks, also at level six.

Will it adversely affect the system, if I both limit sphere specific drawbacks to three and disallow the buy-back of those drawbacks. No drawbacks are mandatory, but disallowing the buy-back makes magic work uniquely for an individual who takes one or more. I look at it as a quirk of how their magic works for them, in a way that is different from most other casters out there. My player, with nine drawbacks (and nine extra talents) claims that any limit on drawbacks is going to break the system and sphere guys will be useless to play.

A130: 'Forgetting' drawbacks is a big issue, just like a normal wizard 'forgetting' verbal components in an area of silence or 'forgetting' to pay gold when crafting. This is a player issue rather than a system issue. While mistakes happen, if a player can't be trusted to make a good faith effort to follow the rules that is an out of game problem and addressing it with houserules will likely only push the issue into expressing itself elsewhere. Drawbacks that are frequently legitimately forgotten are obviously not really an important part of the character and you can certainly require they be removed.

That said, casting traditions, and thus drawbacks, are ultimately within the purview of the DM. You are free to disallow particular drawbacks or not allow drawbacks to be bought off, especially if doing so better adapts the system to your setting. Limiting drawbacks will not 'break' the system. The purpose of drawbacks is to customize both settings and characters, not to stack them up to front-load your power then 'forget' the cost.

Q. 131
Another of my players is into traditional magic, and has reservations on the stacking of caster level for the sphere casters.

The min/max character (with 9 sphere drawbacks), has Specialization in Destruction (+1 CL), a Sphere Staff (+2 CL), Orb Expert (+2 CL, with Orbs), and Energy Specialization (+2 CL, one blast group type). He is effectively CL 13... That gets him 7d8 blasts or 13d8, with a spell point.

And when low on Spell Points, CL 14/CL 15 through 'Empowered Abilities'.
Which is then 8d8, unlimited casts of his smaller Explosive Orb, through Orb Expert.

The player into traditional magic says there is no way a sixth level (any caster) can compete, with 13 dice of damage a dozen times a day, and then unlimited 7 and 8 dice blasts.

At lower levels, using a soft cap of half your caster (or maybe character) level on caster level boosts, seems balanced. How will that play out at higher levels? A sphere caster seems to value caster level as their main avenue of improvement. The traditional caster guy thinks capping caster level, at character level is the only fair means to go.

A131: As I noted above, orb expert does not increase damage dice. So at character level 6, he should have 6 CL (full caster) + 1 (specialization, which costs several feats unless just dipping) +2 staff + 2 energy specialization (limited to 1 group), for CL 11. This gives 6 dice at will and 11 dice with a spell point. Assuming straight incanter, specialization add another +3 damage to your blasts. 24 (reflex half) average at will damage at level 6, probably subject to resistance/immunity/SR (depending on type) isn't crazy. 41 with a spell point is nice, of course, especially if using shapes efficiently. Still, the investment to get there is not insignificant.

Given the inherent limitations of spherecasters, I have no doubt there is any number of things that the wizard can do that the incanter can't, especially once the drawback issue is resolved.

[Segev]

Out of curiosity, what 9 drawbacks does he have?



Oh, and I wouldn't recommend removing the ability to buy off drawbacks. Buying them off can represent a particular path of growth, and a lot of them make perfect sense to buy off if you want to go from partial sphere access to full sphere access with "experience."

[TheIronGolem]

My player, with nine drawbacks (and nine extra talents) claims that any limit on drawbacks is going to break the system and sphere guys will be useless to play.

In order for your player's claim to be correct, vanilla spherecasters (i.e. ones without any drawbacks) would have to be effectively unplayable. Furthermore, SoP as a system would have to be fundamentally broken, but in a very specific way that can be cured by simply piling more Talents onto a caster.

Does that line up with your gameplay experience?

about Q131 is one point doubles the all blast dice or i need to pay for each dice i am doubling?

You only pay 1 spell point, but I'll note that you don't "double" the number of dice. You increase it to 1 die per caster level, which isn't the same thing. If you have a caster level of 5, your destructive blast normally does 3d6 damage. If you burn a spell point to increase the damage, it becomes 5d6, not 6d6.

[khadgar567]

You only pay 1 spell point, but I'll note that you don't "double" the number of dice. You increase it to 1 die per caster level, which isn't the same thing. If you have a caster level of 5, your destructive blast normally does 3d6 damage. If you burn a spell point to increase the damage, it becomes 5d6, not 6d6.

so 1 sphere point makes it equal to our caster level then lets theory craft a little and lets say some how we hit special macguffin that doubles users caster level for low cost of going evil how did macguffin effects our intrepid caster level 5 adventurers destructive blast.

[TheIronGolem]

so 1 sphere point makes it equal to our caster level then lets theory craft a little and lets say some how we hit special macguffin that doubles users caster level for low cost of going evil how did macguffin effects our intrepid caster level 5 adventurers destructive blast.

The damage die progression follows the normal rules. So at CL 10, the blast does 5d6 normally and 10d6 with a spell point. It's the same result you'd get from just getting to CL 10 through class levels.

[khadgar567]

The damage die progression follows the normal rules. So at CL 10, the blast does 5d6 normally and 10d6 with a spell point. It's the same result you'd get from just getting to CL 10 through class levels.

thanks mate and one more question lets say we get destructive blast equvalent ability which stacks with destructive blast but adds more dice then regular blast. what happens is core blast gets doubled then we add that abilities damage or whole thing doubles?

[TheIronGolem]

thanks mate and one more question lets say we get destructive blast equvalent ability which stacks with destructive blast but adds more dice then regular blast. what happens is core blast gets doubled then we add that abilities damage or whole thing doubles?

The rules for Destructive Blast only tell you how Destructive Blast works. If someone creates a "destructive blast equivalent" ability, it's up to them to decide if/how it benefits from spending a spell point on a blast.

[khadgar567]

The rules for Destructive Blast only tell you how Destructive Blast works. If someone creates a "destructive blast equivalent" ability, it's up to them to decide if/how it benefits from spending a spell point on a blast.

thats good then.

[Ualaa]

Out of curiosity, what 9 drawbacks does he have?

Alteration
- Beast Soul
- Lycanthropic

Destruction
- Aligned Combatant (Good)
- Energy Focus (Fire)

Life
- Limited Restoration (Restore Banned)
- Regenerate

Protection
- Limited Protection (Ward Banned)
- Protected Soul

Warp
- Personal Warp


Then for general drawbacks, Somatic x2 with two boons: Easy Focus & Empowered Abilities.

[Ualaa]

I like drawbacks, in that they can be used to duplicate the magical system of a lot of books, cartoons, and movies.
That to me, is the intent of drawbacks -- to make or duplicate a unique magical system.
I understand a starting caster, might not have a whole lot of options without drawbacks, but am not happy with using them to simply min/max the system.

Not to be able to Teleport, but no one else. To be able to buff, but no one else. To be able to shapechange, but no one else. To be able to heal, but no one else...
I see a trend there.

I'm looking for a balance, that keeps Sphere Casters relatively in line with non-Sphere Casters.
In the current campaign, you can play a Sphere Caster, but you can also play a Vancian Caster.
I prefer the Sphere system, if I were to pick between the two.

Having two systems leads to strange interactions.
The wizard has 'See Invisibility', which is an automatic detection.
The sphere guy has Invisibility, which is an illusion that boosts his Hide (and allows him to make checks, even when observed).
Is the Vancian forced to use the Sphere system, and gain the equivalent of his Caster Level, to his Perception check?
Is the Vancian able to automatically detect the sphere user's invisibility?
In the future, that issue will disappear, when Spheres is the only magic system.

The store bought adventure has no sphere casters.
If I customize a caster, I'll make him/her a sphere caster and go with generally the same flavor as their Vancian focus.
Or if I make an NPC, who is a caster, it won't be a Wizard or Arcanist (although it might be a Sphere Wizard or Sphere Arcanist).

Ultimately, I want a balance.
I'm pretty sure if Caster Level is allowed to stack as high as you can get it... the Wizard, made with Spheres or one of the adventure's wizards remade with Spheres is going to kill a PC in their first hostile interaction.
Or if not the wizard, then a later guy, who wins initiative.

[stack]

Alteration
- Beast Soul
- Lycanthropic

Destruction
- Aligned Combatant (Good)
- Energy Focus (Fire)

Life
- Limited Restoration (Restore Banned)
- Regenerate

Protection
- Limited Protection (Ward Banned)
- Protected Soul

Warp
- Personal Warp


Then for general drawbacks, Somatic x2 with two boons: Easy Focus & Empowered Abilities.

Each boon costs 2 drawbacks, so if he only has somatic casting x2 and nothing else he can't have two boons.

I also note that his damage should be gimped against anything not evil and that evil outsiders are often immune or resistant to fire. Other than that, seems like he set his teamwork ability in fire for self buffs. Nothing inherently wrong with that, depends on the group and concept.

[Ualaa]

He was forgetting the reduced damage, the cannot heal others, and the cannot teleport others.

Thanks for the Orb Expert note.
It does specify what the +2 CL applies to.

And I'll have him either add two more general drawbacks, or drop one of the boons.

[Ualaa]

One of my players asked how one would make an Enchanter, through Spheres. As in, an Everquest I style caster.

The class had a weak pet, a floating sword and shield, which could not take commands but would protect the Enchanter once someone had attacked the character.

The Enchanter had a nuke type spell, but it was amongst the weakest of the casters in the game.

They had a line of 'Color' spells, which were Point-Blank AoE (centered on themselves) that stunned opponents for a short duration.
Over time, they added more color spells with level, until they could eventually cycle through their color spells and keep a small area stunned, and unable to act, but were basically doing nothing but cycling their color spells in the process.
Occasionally a mob or two, from those nearby would resist a color spell and act for the equivalent of a round or two.

The class defining feature would probably be the single target 'Mez' spell, where one creature is put to sleep for a short time.
With levels, the class got more powerful versions of this.

The class also had a Charm/Dominate effect, short and random duration.
I remember the best Enchanters using charmed pets to great effect, but those with less attention would frequently kill their raid if a charm broke and they weren't very fast to re-charm.

The class had really strong haste spells, and a decent mana recovery spell, but not sure how the mana thing would translate at all.
They had weaker slow spells.

The enchanter also had a line of 'Rune' spells, which essentially granted temporary hit points... so they could stand there and cast without issue (for 'x' amount of hits) while the rune lasted, despite having a mob beat on them.
Another caster would have their cast time increased (or in Pathfinder) lose the spell.



Haste and Slow, are already defined in Time, as base abilities.
I'd guess Charm/Dominate might be duplicated in the Mind sphere.
I could suggest the base ability in Destruction and maybe a small bit of Conjuration.

As far as the Point-Blank AoE 'color spells' or the ranged 'Mez' spell, not really sure which sphere effect duplicates that the best.

Is there any kind of an effect, for Temporary Hit Points, which would not impact casting (due to straight damage) while the Rune was in effect?

[EldritchWeaver]

Just mentioning regarding the "needs drawbacks to work" discussion: My 10th level character has only a Light sphere drawback. I actually looked into the available drawbacks. But all other drawbacks which I could have used would have broken what I wanted to do with the character, so no dice there. While I certainly could use more talents than I have right now, I haven't felt gimped yet. Except lacking for the increased speed telekinesis talent in one singular session (causing me not to kill an enemy), which I didn't take because I thought there was no need and other talents seemed more worthwhile of my time.

[TheIronGolem]

Is there any kind of an effect, for Temporary Hit Points, which would not impact casting (due to straight damage) while the Rune was in effect?

Protection's basic Barrier ward, while not actual THP, would seem to fulfill this role pretty well. As long as the Barrier holds out, you're not taking any damage and therefore not at risk of casting loss. Plus, it'll stack with any actual THP you get from other sources. Granted, it doesn't move with you.

[khadgar567]

Protection's basic Barrier ward, while not actual THP, would seem to fulfill this role pretty well. As long as the Barrier holds out, you're not taking any damage and therefore not at risk of casting loss. Plus, it'll stack with any actual THP you get from other sources. Granted, it doesn't move with you.

Unless protection sphere expention intruduce some sort of mabile protection talent

[Mehangel]

Protection's basic Barrier ward, while not actual THP, would seem to fulfill this role pretty well. As long as the Barrier holds out, you're not taking any damage and therefore not at risk of casting loss. Plus, it'll stack with any actual THP you get from other sources. Granted, it doesn't move with you.

Damn, I went to check and you were are right, wards dont move along with you. I have been using wards wrong for like 5 months.

[M. Arillius]

Question: Does Mystic Assault allow for iterative attacks with something like Destructive Blast?

As I'm reading it, all it does is replace the standard action to activate with a full-round activation to activate that costs a spell point, since 'making a full round attack' does not equal 'getting iterative attacks from haste or bab'. It just means an attack that takes a full round.

[A.J.Gibson]

Question: Does Mystic Assault allow for iterative attacks with something like Destructive Blast?

As I'm reading it, all it does is replace the standard action to activate with a full-round activation to activate that costs a spell point, since 'making a full round attack' does not equal 'getting iterative attacks from haste or bab'. It just means an attack that takes a full round.

It allows you to make a full-round attack, replacing your first attack with an ability that requires an attack roll. So if you have BAB 11, instead of +11 weapon/+6 weapon/+1 weapon, it becomes +11 destructive blast/+6 weapon/+1 weapon. It's started as a way to give magus features to the mageknight, and became a general feat.

[SecretlyaFish]

I've been throwing around a Lawful Evil Tiefling Cleric/Summoner of Asmodeus for awhile now. I've delved a little bit into his personality, 5'8, handsome, but not enough to make a huge difference, in decent shape but, won't put in the work to actually work out. Not a huge inferiority complex but noticeable. Wants more than what he has, he's a good wizard and has a natural talent for summoning but wants to be the best (Conjurer focused specialist). Wants to be taller, better looking, more powerful, more respected and feared, desired by those he desires, and wants to be admired by most. He wants loyal friends and although he will use magic to get the job done he would rather that loyalty be through true admiration and fear rather than coercion through magic, which would validate his need to be and feel better than others who do not have the same, and at least equal to those that do.

Does not like to hurt children, at worst indifferent towards children. But that said his desire to have all of this power and other things could perhaps drive him to do things he may normally abhor. Loyal to friends and family for the most part as long as he perceives the same back, easily slighted and offended and rarely forgets such things. Strives to win all contests put in front of him in subjects where he excels. Second guesses himself occasionally, cocky but not entirely confident. Has admirable qualities as well. Loyal to those who help him. Prefers not to kill those he views as useful, and is willing to invest in them if he believes he can gain more than the investment. Has great empathy and understanding and can give comfort to those he knows, though usually this is but a show except for all but his closest ally or companion. Uses this more for manipulation. Seldom gives his word, but once given, keeps it.

His mentor/master is an old completely neutral human, think the personality of Professor Horace Slughorn, the one who mentored Voldemort. Cares only about his wizardry(Malconvoker) and what others can do for him or enhance his own status. His master asked for a skilled apprentice from a devil who owed him a large favor, parents completely unknown. Not raised as a son but not ignored either and was firmly taught from a young age. Learned of his unknown heritage which prompted research into books detailing the lower planes. Learned of divine power and worship and decided if he could be twice as powerful by using divine magic as well, and due to his great natural talent in conjuration and, relatively low effort compared to a typical new student, this was allowed.

Character only chose Asmodeus because he was the ruler, the only reason. All he cares about is power and status and how it affects his station and the way others perceive him. If another Lord were at the top instead he would follow them. Wants devils to fear him, to know his name when he summons them, and either respect him and wish to be allies/give true fealty or at the very least fear him enough to not double cross him. Something to strive for rather than a realistic goal of course. Wants to be able to double speak and be more clever than those around him, to feel catch beings in clauses in his own words, to be able to betray when he can gain and not have it be dishonorable (by his standards, if you are stupid enough to be tricked...). At last his apprenticeship is finished. Master views him as more a trophy of sorts, and though the apprenticeship has ended does feel some kinship towards his mentor, as he still has much he could learn. Wants to perhaps be a sort of special devil where he keeps in memories etc intact and be immortal (no aging and only truly killable in Baator). Hopes to earn this through service to Asmodeus. Hates armor and refuses to wear it, and is a wuss in combat (non combatant flaw).

This all takes place in Faerun. Year is 1370DR. Age is 22 born/given/spawned(?) in 1348DR. Master showed him off as a trophy apprentice to certain colleagues of which he competes, a bit of a game between them to better each other, competing against their apprentices. None of them know of the clerical powers, and their alignments are varied, though leaning towards neutral to good.

Could you make this into a passable backstory? Take my general ideas and make them work and I guess sound cool/less lame. If you think you can change them to be better while keeping the same general idea that would be fine. If something doesn't work or contradicts, find a way to work around it or make it work? Perhaps give an ally or rival/future enemy from the apprentices I was forced to compete against? Can't think of a name for my character either so names would be fine as something to consider. Would the creature that gave me as payment have had a name for me? And also, pick the area of the sword coast north where this might have been able to all take place. Apologies this is kind of all over the place. I have ADHD and my ideas are often never in a particular order it just comes out that way, I'm not too organized :D Sorry if this was all super cringe and made you roll your eyes! If this is the wrong place to post this, perhaps point me in the right direction to someone you know who would be willing?

[Gobliin]

I know there is a achetype that use the path of war system from dreamscarred press ( the shifter as it). Is there one that use binding system from radiance house? If not, have you some project to do so? I would like to see a hedgewich spiritualist binder.

I was also wondering if there was a project to convert the class from sphere of power to the variant multiclass system from pathfinder unchained?

[khadgar567]

I know there is a achetype that use the path of war system from dreamscarred press ( the shifter as it). Is there one that use binding system from radiance house? If not, have you some project to do so? I would like to see a hedgewich spiritualist binder.

I was also wondering if there was a project to convert the class from sphere of power to the variant multiclass system from pathfinder unchained?

well some binder sphere fusion will be good but i dont know we have supporting sphere to fuse both styles since vestiges powers are basicly change from vestige to vestige its hard to create central support.

[Gobliin]

What I would like to see, is that you can bind spirit and use sphere with the same class, not necessary using vestige/spirit that use sphere. If I look to the achetype from the gromoire of lost soul, some caster lose spell slot. Maybe the sphere caster may pay spell point to bind sirit?

Or there could be a bindind sphere. The basic version would allowed to bind first level starless spirit. Each sphere talent would allow to bind higgher level spirit or constellation spirit. They would have a caster level prerequisit and a high spell point cost (like spirit level+ 1)

[Alsark]

Can I create a Kinetic Field above me? If so, how would the dimensions work? It mentions length, but I wasn't sure if it was a square or supposed to be more like a wall.

[AmberVael]

Can I create a Kinetic Field above me? If so, how would the dimensions work? It mentions length, but I wasn't sure if it was a square or supposed to be more like a wall.

Hm, it does appear that I missed a few details there. Its a flat plane so it won't have width, but I believe it should have a height of 10 feet. You can reorient it if you want, so yes, you could make it appear above you.