Pokemon Player Races for D&D Fifth Edition

[Kzinssie]

Honestly, I think natural weapons having limited uses in certain builds is totally fine. They're an option, and for some builds it's not going to be a great option.

If you do go with that fix, though, Recharge 6 is awkward for player races. Just stick to once per short or long rest.

Edit: For Meowstic, I feel like Recharge (and/or once per rest) should only be on the female natural weapon enhancement. The male version already has a 50% chance of being nearly useless with the light effect, having recharge on top of that makes it seem worthless in comparison to the much more reliable female power.

Edit 2: Would you have an issue with me using the statblocks here to create a Mystery Dungeon campaign setting splatbook on homebrewery? Aside from setting details, it would include new backgrounds and monsters, and maybe a few classes as well.

[Rune Knight]

Honestly, I think natural weapons having limited uses in certain builds is totally fine. They're an option, and for some builds it's not going to be a great option.

If you do go with that fix, though, Recharge 6 is awkward for player races. Just stick to once per short or long rest.

Edit: For Meowstic, I feel like Recharge (and/or once per rest) should only be on the female natural weapon enhancement. The male version already has a 50% chance of being nearly useless with the light effect, having recharge on top of that makes it seem worthless in comparison to the much more reliable female power.

Edit 2: Would you have an issue with me using the statblocks here to create a Mystery Dungeon campaign setting splatbook on homebrewery? Aside from setting details, it would include new backgrounds and monsters, and maybe a few classes as well.

A lot of Kalos and Alola needs another pass, to be honest. I've been taking a short break from getting the final 20 water based pokemon done until my desktop is working again. I should probably make a real schedule of what to do first, but Kalos and Alola will probably be after the water pokemon are done.

As for the campaign setting, I absolutely wouldn't mind. Any specific ideas that you can share on what those backgrounds, classes, and monsters would be?

[Kzinssie]

Monsters would just be adaptations of the player races to have a handful of class features and/or multiattacks, for the most part. Backgrounds could include members of rescue teams and/or exploration guilds, students at schools like the one in PSMD, and direct servants/acolytes of legendary pokemon. I've decided it would probably be easier to make class archetypes than full classes - immediate ideas include a Fighter archetype focused on getting the most out of natural weapons, an Ultra Beast Warlock patron, and new Cleric domains for Legendary Pokemon types. There could also be rules for PMD held items and/or stuff like reviver seeds. I could also have an appendix of crossing over PMD with official settings - rules for being transformed into a Pokemon like in the games, possible reasons that someone from something like Dragonlance or Eberron would even be pulled into the Pokemon world, and what might result when a PMD character finds a spelljamming vessel or a portal to Sigil.

[UrielAwakened]

So I've been watching for awhile and not saying anything, but I just wanted to voice concerns that the differences between Pokemon, especially ability score wise, is not nearly pronounced enough to capture their uniqueness or personalities you would come to expect as a long-term fan.

Pokemon ability scores actually convert really-well to D&D scores straight-up.

Attack -> Str
Speed -> Dex
HP -> Con
Special Attack -> Int/Cha
Special Defense - Wis

With enough Defense as a natural armor bonus to AC.

Then depending on how true to the power differential you want to be, you can divide their ability scores by either 5 or 10 and convert them to actual stats.

For instance, dividing by 5 means an ability socre of 50 becomes a D&D 10, while a 100 becomes a 20, with the upper-end being closer to 30 (except for extreme outliers). If this gap is too great, you can divide by 10, and a 50 becomes a 5, a 100 a 10, and the upper-end is closer to 15-20.

Just a thought.

[Kzinssie]

I do think they should probably lean on "two points into stats of your choice" less, yeah. No need to go quite so hyper-analytical on stat distribution, though.

[UrielAwakened]

Yeah even something as simple as looking at the Pokemon's two highest stats in-game and giving a bonus to those ones in D&D would go a long way.

IE: Ponyta gets a bonus to Str and Dex, Chansey gets a bonus to Con and Wis, Abra gets a bonus to Int and Dex, etc...

[Kzinssie]

Anyway, I've put together an incomplete first draft of a few PMD backgrounds: Rescue Team Member, Exploration Guild Member, and Transformed Outsider. You can find the WIP here.

[Rune Knight]

So I've been watching for awhile and not saying anything, but I just wanted to voice concerns that the differences between Pokemon, especially ability score wise, is not nearly pronounced enough to capture their uniqueness or personalities you would come to expect as a long-term fan.

Pokemon ability scores actually convert really-well to D&D scores straight-up.

Attack -> Str
Speed -> Dex
HP -> Con
Special Attack -> Int/Cha
Special Defense - Wis

With enough Defense as a natural armor bonus to AC.

Then depending on how true to the power differential you want to be, you can divide their ability scores by either 5 or 10 and convert them to actual stats.

For instance, dividing by 5 means an ability socre of 50 becomes a D&D 10, while a 100 becomes a 20, with the upper-end being closer to 30 (except for extreme outliers). If this gap is too great, you can divide by 10, and a 50 becomes a 5, a 100 a 10, and the upper-end is closer to 15-20.

Just a thought.

The stat conversion you gave is pretty close to what I was using for all of them. The attack stat tended to cover strength or dexterity, or strength and dexterity in some way. The pokemon's size category, body shape, and speed stat were what I used to determine the race's movement speed. The reason I used so many "+1 to one or the other" and "+1 to any score" was to reflect the effort value training.

A lot of the shelled or armored pokemon did get some kind of natural armor or an armor proficiency. Most of the turtle-like pokemon get the option of 12 + their Con modifier as their armor class.

Dividing the Pokemon base stats to get their ability scores could work very well for monsters. Though, the core D&D rules constantly say player characters can't go over 20 in an ability score (except in special circumstances), so, nearly all fully evolved pokemon would be against the rules. However, even if you cap the stats at 20, there's still a couple problems. If I understand this correctly (you would be dividing pokemon base stats into ability scores instead of rolling or buying ability scores), all characters of a specific pokemon race would be locked into the same scores and there might not be a whole lot of room for playing the class you want to play without the race to go with it. Another issue would just be the power that gets you, while still getting ability score increases from classes. Glalie has always been my bane in tabletop conversions, so I'll use one as an example here too. If you divide a glalie's stats by five, you get 16s across the board for ability scores. If you do this for a snorunt, you end up with 10s. One is just too strong, and the other is far weaker than another character at level 1.

I hope you aren't discouraged by what I said in the last paragraph. I'm not trying to push people out of the home brewing community. Also, you can always ask what the DM wants to allow. I just can't recommend dividing pokemon base stats as anything other than a guideline . Maybe as a form of the stat buy option (begin with 8s in all scores, then find the distribution that closely matches your pokemon's stats, then spend your ability score increases at higher levels to match your evolution)? It might be able to work another way, but I'm just not sure what that way might be.

[Rune Knight]

Monsters would just be adaptations of the player races to have a handful of class features and/or multiattacks, for the most part. Backgrounds could include members of rescue teams and/or exploration guilds, students at schools like the one in PSMD, and direct servants/acolytes of legendary pokemon. I've decided it would probably be easier to make class archetypes than full classes - immediate ideas include a Fighter archetype focused on getting the most out of natural weapons, an Ultra Beast Warlock patron, and new Cleric domains for Legendary Pokemon types. There could also be rules for PMD held items and/or stuff like reviver seeds. I could also have an appendix of crossing over PMD with official settings - rules for being transformed into a Pokemon like in the games, possible reasons that someone from something like Dragonlance or Eberron would even be pulled into the Pokemon world, and what might result when a PMD character finds a spelljamming vessel or a portal to Sigil.

I found a PDF of the Kanto dex with the pokemon as monsters before I started on this project. It was done by caniswolfman. https://www.reddit.com/r/UnearthedAr...kanto_pokedex/

[UrielAwakened]

The stat conversion you gave is pretty close to what I was using for all of them. The attack stat tended to cover strength or dexterity, or strength and dexterity in some way. The pokemon's size category, body shape, and speed stat were what I used to determine the race's movement speed. The reason I used so many "+1 to one or the other" and "+1 to any score" was to reflect the effort value training.

A lot of the shelled or armored pokemon did get some kind of natural armor or an armor proficiency. Most of the turtle-like pokemon get the option of 12 + their Con modifier as their armor class.

Dividing the Pokemon base stats to get their ability scores could work very well for monsters. Though, the core D&D rules constantly say player characters can't go over 20 in an ability score (except in special circumstances), so, nearly all fully evolved pokemon would be against the rules. However, even if you cap the stats at 20, there's still a couple problems. If I understand this correctly (you would be dividing pokemon base stats into ability scores instead of rolling or buying ability scores), all characters of a specific pokemon race would be locked into the same scores and there might not be a whole lot of room for playing the class you want to play without the race to go with it. Another issue would just be the power that gets you, while still getting ability score increases from classes. Glalie has always been my bane in tabletop conversions, so I'll use one as an example here too. If you divide a glalie's stats by five, you get 16s across the board for ability scores. If you do this for a snorunt, you end up with 10s. One is just too strong, and the other is far weaker than another character at level 1.

I hope you aren't discouraged by what I said in the last paragraph. I'm not trying to push people out of the home brewing community. Also, you can always ask what the DM wants to allow. I just can't recommend dividing pokemon base stats as anything other than a guideline . Maybe as a form of the stat buy option (begin with 8s in all scores, then find the distribution that closely matches your pokemon's stats, then spend your ability score increases at higher levels to match your evolution)? It might be able to work another way, but I'm just not sure what that way might be.

Oh no it definitely wouldn't work for a straight "Put these creatures in a version of D&D with other normal players," but in a version where everything is that outside-of-the-box I feel it would be quite balancing.

I think if it were me I would do a modified array type of situation. For instance, if you wanted more variety in the playable stat arrays, take something like Snorunt (10 in everything), then subtract 2 from each score. Then let the player roll a number of dice that they can add to each score to go up by that value. That would give you more variety without taking all of the personality out of the Pokemon.

Or you could do it the other way and just give less "+1 to any" options and focus more on giving them bonuses to just one or two stats. That's probably the easier way.

Anyway don't let me stop you or discourage what you're doing. I've toyed with custom Pokemon systems for D&D for 3 versions now, so I've spent a lot of time trying to do as many close 1-to-1 conversions as possible and it is never 100% foolproof.

[Kzinssie]

Really, you should definitely get rid of the +1 to any stuff (with the exception of stuff like Mew). It's a bit silly that the basic capabilities of a Charmander are less mechanically defined than the basic capabilities of a dwarf. (To fix the obvious problem here: say evolution ABSIs can increase the 20 cap)

[UrielAwakened]

I found a PDF of the Kanto dex with the pokemon as monsters before I started on this project. It was done by caniswolfman. https://www.reddit.com/r/UnearthedAr...kanto_pokedex/

Yeah I kind of hate that project, not gonna lie. The stats are completely arbitrary and nothing like the real Pokemon.

Things like Jigglypuff and Chansey should have obscene Con scores, Alakazam should not have a higher Int than Mewtwo, etc...

[goodpeople25]

Yeah I kind of hate that project, not gonna lie. The stats are completely arbitrary and nothing like the real Pokemon.

Things like Jigglypuff and Chansey should have obscene Con scores, Alakazam should not have a higher Int than Mewtwo, etc...

Yes Chansey well known for it's ability to naturally take on a great many of the pokemon equivalent of great axes or claws to the face... I guess? Though stuff like poison or however forutitude saves work in this edtion seems to work well in the examples given.

And why not, Alakazam is rather well known for great intelligence.

[UrielAwakened]

Yes Chansey well known for it's ability to naturally take on a great many of the pokemon equivalent of great axes or claws to the face... I guess? Though stuff like poison or however forutitude saves work in this edtion seems to work well in the examples given.

And why not, Alakazam is rather well known for great intelligence.

Because Mewtwo has a full 24 points more special attack than Alakazam. If Alakazam is a 30 Mewtwo should be like a 40. Realistically though, converting their ability scores would result in like a 27 for Alakazam and a 31 for Mewtwo. Regardless of how true to the original stats you want to be, in no conversion is Alakazam a better offensive attacker than Mewtwo.

And yeah Chansey has almost twice the hit points of any other Pokemon. Its defense was garbage so it took tons of damage from physical attacks but it would wall special attackers forever.

Overall the guy just had a very loose understanding of what made each Pokemon unique in the games and as a long-time fan that annoys me.

[goodpeople25]

Because Mewtwo has a full 24 points more special attack than Alakazam. If Alakazam is a 30 Mewtwo should be like a 40. Realistically though, converting their ability scores would result in like a 27 for Alakazam and a 31 for Mewtwo. Regardless of how true to the original stats you want to be, in no conversion is Alakazam a better offensive attacker than Mewtwo.

And yeah Chansey has almost twice the hit points of any other Pokemon. Its defense was garbage so it took tons of damage from physical attacks but it would wall special attackers forever.

Overall the guy just had a very loose understanding of what made each Pokemon unique in the games and as a long-time fan that annoys me.

Okay, I'll make this simple, I don't accept the premise of stats having absolutely to match. My point is that stats don't necessarily correspond perfectly, if there's no low defence to represent buckling to phyiscal hits how is Chansey having more HP to soak all types of hits inherently better than alternatives? As for Alakazam, if your premise is rejected what do you have? I pointed out that Alakazam has plenty going for it having very high Int regardless of stats. And again alternatives.


Of course that project could still have no idea of pokemon stats, sure I'm not arguing for it and haven't looked through it throughly to judge any of it.

[Kzinssie]

Pokemon has a lot of canon sources. Sticking purely to game stats is unnecessarily limiting, I feel.

[UrielAwakened]

It's just silly to ignore then when they are clearly defined and consistent across every game, AND they apply so well to D&D stats.

It's not like the creators picked them out of a hat each time.

And yeah AC is pretty clearly an amalgamation of defense and speed.

[Kzinssie]

The issue is that game stats are significantly narrower in scope than DnD stats. Like, yes, Mewtwo has more Sp.Atk than Alakazam, and by that logic should have higher INT, but a huge part of the lore around Alakazam is that it's one of the smartest creatures in existence, so it doesn't make sense for it to have lower INT. Make it so the sum of INT and CHA is higher for Mewtwo than Alakazam, maybe.

[yarrowdeathbloo]

Nice work!

[UrielAwakened]

The issue is that game stats are significantly narrower in scope than DnD stats. Like, yes, Mewtwo has more Sp.Atk than Alakazam, and by that logic should have higher INT, but a huge part of the lore around Alakazam is that it's one of the smartest creatures in existence, so it doesn't make sense for it to have lower INT. Make it so the sum of INT and CHA is higher for Mewtwo than Alakazam, maybe.

The lore says Pidgeot can fly like Mach 3 but it's got a base speed of 91. It says Tyranitar destroy entire mountains when it rages.

It's almost universally-accepted that the Pokedex entries are the wild imagination of a 10-year old and not canon facts.

[Kzinssie]

I mean, the 5000 IQ thing is obviously an exaggeration, but when pretty much every source other than the game stats talks about how hyper-intelligent Alakazam is it's silly to ignore that in the interest of accuracy to one specific source. And you still didn't address my main point about the comparative narrowness of Pokemon stats to D&D stats.

[UrielAwakened]

They're not narrow though?

Attack translates easily to Strength.
Defense can contribute to natural AC.
Speed translates to Dexterity.
HP translates to Constitution.
Special Attack becomes Intelligence.
Special Defense becomes Wisdom.

Make Cha the average of your base stats and have it be the spell DC for status effects.

Done. D&D stats are used 99% of the time for combat so why pretend otherwise?

[Kzinssie]

For starters, not in my campaigns.

Even beyond noncombat uses (which dominate a lot of campaigns!), D&D just isn't as specific in its definition of stats as Pokemon. Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma, for instance, can all take the role of Special Attack depending on class. Dexterity is used for AC and finesse weapons, not just initiative. Constitution serves as resistance to certain nondamaging effects. And so on. I'm not saying base stats are useless for D&D conversions, you just can't use them as your only basis.

[UrielAwakened]

But it's really easy to just use Int and have every class use the same attribute for every type of attack.

You don't need Int casters, Wis casters, and Cha casters in a Pokemon conversion. Frankly you don't need them in regular D&D. If it wasn't for skills, D&D would lose nothing from having four stats: Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, and Magic.

And like I said, AC is pretty clearly a component of defense and ability to dodge, so should really be 10 + Defense + Speed in Pokemon terms.

[Kzinssie]

I'll grant that in a pure-Pokemon campaign you could probably stand to just use the Pokemon stats outright, but that's not really the focus of this conversion, and in 5e as it exists you have WIS and CHA casters.

[UrielAwakened]

Yeah I don't care what OP does, I was just criticizing that PDF that gets lauded any time someone talks about D&D-to-Pokemon.

It has high production value and a lot of time went into it but the monsters just don't look or feel like Pokemon to me.

[Kzinssie]

Yeah, it's iffy at best. I guess it's useful if you just want to throw in a Bulbasaur or whatever, but it's definitely not something you can put in a Pokemon-centric campaign.

(One final note: I probably WOULD actually give Alakazam higher INT than Mewtwo, just because I don't see Mewtwo as an INT caster. Probably WIS, as a joke on Special being one stat in Gen 1, though I can also see CHA.)

[Geodude6]

I actually made a Meloetta race on...DanDwiki. Yeah. The page was a complete mess when first I laid eyes on it, and it was on the deletion pile, but I took it under my wing and made it make sense. It may still need some fine-tuning, but I think I've gotten it to a playable state. You can find it here.

Someone else on that wiki also made a Mimikyu race which I helped with, which seems like a lot of fun. It's over here.

[Kzinssie]

Is Among the Legends dead?

Even if so, the new Poipole line in USUM is roughly balanced with "normal" Pokemon. Any chance of having it in there?

[Rune Knight]

Is Among the Legends dead?

Even if so, the new Poipole line in USUM is roughly balanced with "normal" Pokemon. Any chance of having it in there?

I admit this hasn't been the swiftest reply, but I've still been working on it. Ultra Sun and Moon pokémon included.

I gave it some thought, and there was no reason for me not to try setting up two versions of most of the legends. I have most of the low power versions, I don't want to say "done" but they exist and I think they're ready to try.
Some of them (like Shaymin), I think balanced well with the normal races, but would just seem unnecessarily bloated with features or ability score increases if I made a super powered version. However, there were others (typically big pokemon) that felt like they needed a higher limit than what I had set for myself to really feel like that pokémon.

So, the current plan is to finish the set of all the legends for low power, then have another set of a select few for higher power. You know, pretty much the opposite of how I started working on the legendaries.