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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Cizak's Avatar

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    Default Re: Question about Miko.

    Quote Originally Posted by LurkingEye View Post
    And of course, that comment began with : "You have three fatally flawed basic premises.". Which is, even if it is not to be taken literally (and really I don't think that anyone did this), a way to assert : "You're very wrong". Which isn't really a nice thing to say, and it's not a nice way to say it either - and that's all.
    Directness isn't mean. If you go into an argument and think someone's argument is based on premises that harms their argument from the beginning, you tell them. "You have three fatally flawed basic premises" is a neutral statement. There really isn't any emotion, niceness, or lack thereof attached to it.

    The fact that the author of this sentence, or the ones that defended him, didn't try at all to say something like "I apologize, I didn't mean to sound rude" but say instead things like "you don't know english, stupid", says a lot.
    Firstly, I would think it's because the poster whom the prase was adressing didn't even comment on it, it was another poster, and they added needless aggresiveness to their posts by strawmanning, mis-quoting and belittling other posters.

    Secondly, you are strawmanning yourself. Noone told candybarsuvius "you don't know english, stupid". They explained that they view "fatallt flawed" as a neutral, commonly used expression.

    That's not something I would tell to someone unless [...] I want to show my strong disagreement with it.
    Like Kish did?

    Like in "It's a fatally flawed opinion to think that you can steal my cake, and leave this room alive" - see that? These two words are so strong that they can't be used in a normal conversation without being humourous.
    What's humourous about your sentence is the added death threat which removes it far, far away from anything expressed by Kish in this thread.
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  2. - Top - End - #62
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    NinjaGirl

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    Default Re: Question about Miko.

    This is a friendly and in no way official or 'vigilante modding' type heads up that double posting is frowned upon in these forums. If you need to reply to multiple posts, there's a little button that looks like a quote with a plus sign next to it that lets you easily reply to multiple posts within one post!

    I have already said everything else I have to say on this thread, and offer nothing new.
    Last edited by DaggerPen; 2016-12-28 at 07:35 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek Kommander View Post
    Heartless? Those flaming letters spelled ELAN! How many sons can honestly say their father has murdered dozens of human beings just to show how much they care?

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    First, I'm impressed that this topic went so far off topic that it ended up back at The Order of the Stick.
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  3. - Top - End - #63
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    hroşila's Avatar

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    Default Re: Question about Miko.



    À propos of nothing, of course.
    ungelic is us

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: Question about Miko.

    Quote Originally Posted by candybarsuvius View Post
    Someone whose don't knows grammar shouldn't even asks the question.
    You mean someone who doesn't know grammar?

  5. - Top - End - #65

    Default Re: Question about Miko.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    You mean someone who doesn't know grammar?
    That faint whistling sound was the joke going far, far, over your head.

  6. - Top - End - #66
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Question about Miko.

    Quote Originally Posted by candybarsuvius View Post
    Very well said. I get the impression that Nerdy and Kish don't understand this at all, though. I've said it before, and I'll say it again--it's a consequence of spending all your time in the artificial environment of the internet instead of reacting with people in the real world. My mommy taught me not to disagree with people on matters of simple opinion so vehemently, but what really drove the lesson home was when someone to whom I expressed such disagreement took a swing at me :). No such repercussions on the internet, though.
    Wow. If you call others out on the fact that they are rude you might want to avoid acting the same way.
    And maybe it would be a good idea not to assume that everyone was raised the way you were. I for one was taught to stand to my opinion*.

    Quote Originally Posted by candybarsuvius View Post
    And therein lies your problem...
    What problem? Calling out a flaw- and even calling it a fatal flaw -seems like a pretty normal argumentation technique to me.
    And working off the assumptions that V is definitely male when his whole deal is that her gender is ambiguous or that Miko would have care when we can see she didn't seems like it could be called a fatal flaw.
    It's not calling Earth a disk bad, but I wouldn't base my argumentation on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by candybarsuvius View Post
    Someone whose don't knows grammar shouldn't even asks the question. But I'll answer anyway: the US. I was equating the lack of civility on this forum with the overall lack of civility of discourse in the US due to the recent election. And no, I'm not really talking politics here. I'm more referring to the way people talk to and treat each other in the absence of restraints and repercussions--such as on the internet.
    I think it is kinda hilarious you consider the Playground bad. This place is pretty nice all things considered. I’ve seen worse in RL.
    And if you think it is so bad it might be a good idea to lead by example instead of making it worse.

    *Besides, isn't almost everything based on opinion?
    Last edited by Kantaki; 2016-12-28 at 07:54 PM.
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  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: Question about Miko.

    Quote Originally Posted by candybarsuvius View Post
    That faint whistling sound was the joke going far, far, over your head.
    No I got it, I just wanted to see how long I could drag you on for. I for one find you hilarious. I want to go on tour with you across the U.S.

  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Default Re: Question about Miko.

    Quote Originally Posted by candybarsuvius View Post
    And therein lies your problem...
    As far as I can tell, my problem seems to be that you don't understand what "fatally flawed" means.

    Quote Originally Posted by candybarsuvius View Post
    Quote from NerdyKris:

    "I'm sorry you're not comfortable with sex..."

    So what it means in this context is an invitation for someone to make an unwarranted, insulting speculation about the poster.

    Gotta love the internet!
    You continue to insult other posters rather than give straightforward answers. You are the "lack of civility" you have spent half this thread complaining about.

  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: Question about Miko.

    Quote Originally Posted by hroşila View Post
    Àpropos of nothing, of course.
    December 2016 is such a fine vintage is it not
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  10. - Top - End - #70

    Default Re: Question about Miko.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kantaki View Post
    *Besides, isn't almost everything based on opinion?
    Actually, no. The sun rises in the east and is yellow even if it's your or my opinion that it rises in the north and is chartreuse.

    What many people are doing here is elevating their opinions to the status of absolute and irrefutable truth, and anyone who doesn't share those opinions is "fatally flawed." Stating your opinion loudly and obnoxiously, in language that suggests that you are a shining beacon of absolute truth and that the person whose fatally flawed argument you are utterly destroying with the sword of your blindingly brilliant logic is an idiot, is not noble or tough-minded or praiseworthy or manly. I can't help but refer to a certain public figure of whom many have said, "He speaks his mind." Well, your drunk uncle Dan also speaks his mind, which is why you dread Thanksgiving dinner every year.

  11. - Top - End - #71

    Default Re: Question about Miko.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    As far as I can tell, my problem seems to be that you don't understand what "fatally flawed" means.


    You continue to insult other posters rather than give straightforward answers. You are the "lack of civility" you have spent half this thread complaining about.
    See, that's the type of crap you spew that I object to. I never showed any misunderstanding of the term. I simply objected to your silly, condescending, insulting, and inaccurate use of it. Big difference between not understanding something and not agreeing with YOU about it.

    I've given lots of straightforward answers, and as far as any lack of civility, I've only responded in kind. But you are, in one sense, absolutely right--I should never descend to your level. And as far as being evasive goes--what about the insult leveled at the OP? Has the person who did that copped to that or, God forfend, apologized for it? Have you acknowledged it?

    It might be that some here are so sexually frustrated that a discussion of sex, even tangential to the topic as it was, sent them into a tizzy. I can't otherwise explain all the name-calling, insults, and provocative language. "I'm sorry you're not comfortable with sex"--I mean, what kind of horsecrap is that? Would you EVER say that to a stranger in public?

    I can understand your attempting to evade your own behavior by accusing me of the same, though. It's a natural impulse: "you too!!! Nyahh nyahh, smarty!"
    Last edited by candybarsuvius; 2016-12-28 at 09:26 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #72
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Question about Miko.

    Quote Originally Posted by candybarsuvius View Post
    Actually, no. The sun rises in the east and is yellow even if it's your or my opinion that it rises in the north and is chartreuse.

    What many people are doing here is elevating their opinions to the status of absolute and irrefutable truth, and anyone who doesn't share those opinions is "fatally flawed." Stating your opinion loudly and obnoxiously, in language that suggests that you are a shining beacon of absolute truth and that the person whose fatally flawed argument you are utterly destroying with the sword of your blindingly brilliant logic is an idiot, is not noble or tough-minded or praiseworthy or manly. I can't help but refer to a certain public figure of whom many have said, "He speaks his mind." Well, your drunk uncle Dan also speaks his mind, which is why you dread Thanksgiving dinner every year.
    A couple problems. V's gender ambiguity is not a matter of opinion either. It is pretty explicit within the comic that characters cannot tell what sex V is (or their former spouse, for that matter). Its understandable that somebody would decide one way or the other (and many people have), but youre going to run into problems when you base a premise off of that decision, which the OP did.

    Secondly, Miko's open mindedness about these matters is not a matter of opinion either. On multiple occasions she has been shown to be perfectly OK with the idea of sex and same-sex relationships.

    So yes, in this particular instance, Kish is perfectly within his right to make an absolute statement such as this because he is, in fact, factually correct.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  13. - Top - End - #73
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Question about Miko.

    Quote Originally Posted by candybarsuvius View Post
    Actually, no. The sun rises in the east and is yellow even if it's your or my opinion that it rises in the north and is chartreuse.
    Almost being the operative word. Of course some things are fact.
    Others depend on on our individual perception and are thus opinion.
    For example I'm pretty sure the last time I saw the Sun it wasn't yellow. It was more reddish.

    What many people are doing here is elevating their opinions to the status of absolute and irrefutable truth, and anyone who doesn't share those opinions is "fatally flawed." Stating your opinion loudly and obnoxiously, in language that suggests that you are a shining beacon of absolute truth and that the person whose fatally flawed argument you are utterly destroying with the sword of your blindingly brilliant logic is an idiot, is not noble or tough-minded or praiseworthy or manly. I can't help but refer to a certain public figure of whom many have said, "He speaks his mind." Well, your drunk uncle Dan also speaks his mind, which is why you dread Thanksgiving dinner every year.
    I see.
    But isn't every argumentation the attempt to present your* opinion as fact and other opinons as... fatally flawed? I seem to remember something like that.

    More importantly, who is Uncle Dan?
    And what is Thanksgiving?
    I don't think we do that in this part of the world.

    *As in the opinion you argue for.
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  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Default Re: Question about Miko.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cizak View Post
    Alright, there seems to be a huge misunderstanding about what you're actually asking here. Here are the reasons I, and I think many others, thought you wanted to talk about sex:

    * You asked if Miko trusted V to "be faithful". "Being faithful" is very commonly understood as "only having sex with your partner".
    <Snip>
    [/QUOTE]
    Point of information: many couples between romantic-but-asexual individuals define their own boundaries as to what constitutes cheating in a romantic but non-sexual relationship.
    I agree with the overall thrust of your post, though: in the most commonly used meaning of the phrase that the OP used, it refers to the possibility of V having extramarital sex, so the OP should have expected people to respond to that meaning.


    Quote Originally Posted by Echch View Post
    1) Yes, because Miko, the definition of a stick in the mud paladin, would clearly not care about that.
    2) While that's true, not everything is based around sex. The reason a kindergarten has split toilets has nothing to do with the adults fearing that, I'm sure.
    3) I said "if it is any indication" for a reason, because I feared that I may have missed characters calling her female (is ambigious a gender? I honestly don't know).
    Presumably Miko let V stay in whichever room made V (and the possibly the others) more comfortable, and that happened to be the same room as Haley and not the room with the male OOTS members. Which room do you think Miko should have insisted on V being in? V isn't male, nor is V female, so if you thought the rooms should be segregated by gender, than which one would you have put V in? More importantly, why would Miko care about segregating her prisoners by gender when she didn't mind them sleeping all together on the side of the road?


    Quote Originally Posted by Echch View Post
    Given that preachy aspect, the religious values (of not all religions, to be sure, but of popular ones)
    I'm actually not sure what the values of the most popular religion in Azure City (i.e., the Southern Pantheon religion) are. I mean, we know some of their religion's values based on the actions of Azure City clerics. And I hope you weren't talking about any other religions, since the only other religions in this world that we know of are the Northern, Western, Elven, Goblin, and Giggles religions, none of which are popular in Miko's culture.

  15. - Top - End - #75
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    Default Re: Question about Miko.

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