Girl Genius XXI: Cancel the Jugglers

[geoduck]

Spoiler: New comic

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Looks like Martellus knows who the Queen of the Dawn is, then. Which raises certain questions seeing as how this was almost certainly not authorised by Grandmama and he hasn't really had a lot of time to scheme independently since coming out of the timeskip.

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In the likely event that Tarvek is correct about the QotD being Zola, then of course Tweedle recognizes her; they were supposed to pull the whole "publicly unite to fight the Evil Enemies" scheme back in Mechanicsburg, with Tweedle as the Storm King and Zola as the fake Heterodyne. And of course this new version wasn't authorized by Grandma or Tweedle; the QotD schtick (complete with Slaver Wasps causing her "diplomatic triumphs") has been orchestrated by either the Lucrezia-copy possessing Zola, or Zola pretending to be the Lucrezia-copy; this is all part of her looming attempt to take over Paris. It is interesting that the Geisters are willing to sacrifice themselves en mass to be the Evil Enemies this time around..

[Shining Wrath]

Not sure the Geisters signed up for mass sacrifice. They'd do whatever Lucrezia asked, of course, but given how upset Shrdlu was by Eotain's death, I don't think she expected her partner to die in Paris.

I think it's interesting that Tweedle trusts the MoP implicitly. Master creates a Sparky thing, says "Stand there", and Martellus stands there - and so does Zola. Master's army drives hordes of Geisters toward Martellus and Zola; Zola worries, Tweedle shrugs.

Not only is the Master 12 feet tall by my estimate, but his head appears to be a little larger than Collette's, or Beausoleil's. I suspect that prior to being Sparkily upgraded he was still a big man.

[HandofShadows]

The Geisters don't have a choice in the matter since they are all controled.

[factotum]

I think it's interesting that Tweedle trusts the MoP implicitly.

It's probably more that they're *in Paris*, so you kind of have to accept whatever fate the Master decrees for you--if he meant Tweedle ill he could have struck him down at any time, after all.

[geoduck]

The Geisters don't have a choice in the matter since they are all controled.

Apparently some of them were able to rebel, at least in the past.

[eschmenk]

...then of course Tweedle recognizes her; they were supposed to pull the whole "publicly unite to fight the Evil Enemies" scheme back in Mechanicsburg, with Tweedle as the Storm King and Zola as the fake Heterodyne.

No, that would be a very unlikely explanation. As far as we know, Tarvek was the only Storm King that was supposed to work with Zola, and he didn't even know about Zola being part of the plot in advance. By the time Martellus became visibly involved, Agatha had already been recognized by the castle so that plot didn't involve Zola anymore. We have no way of knowing if Martellus was told specifically that Zola was part of the plot or not and it's unlikely that he had a chance to meet her because she left for Mechanicsburg so soon. Furthermore, why would her singing come up as part of that?

The obvious way for Martellus to be familiar with Zola, especially since he mentioned her singing, was because she was a singer at The Island of the Monkey Girls, which was a popular hangout for college students. Martellus would have likely seen her singing there, just like Tarvek and Gil.

It appeared that Zola may have gone through at least some of the same smoke knight training as Martellus and a bunch of other people in his family, so it's also possible that they met each other through that. I doubt that he would have learned about her singing from that even if they did, though. I think it's also possible that Zola's training was separate, though.

Apparently some of them were able to rebel, at least in the past.

Yes, but they were much higher level than those being used in the attack. The vast majority of Giesters couldn't resist.

[geoduck]

No, that would be a very unlikely explanation. As far as we know, Tarvek was the only Storm King that was supposed to work with Zola, and he didn't even know about Zola being part of the plot in advance. By the time Martellus became visibly involved, Agatha had already been recognized by the castle so that plot didn't involve Zola anymore. We have no way of knowing if Martellus was told specifically that Zola was part of the plot or not and it's unlikely that he had a chance to meet her because she left for Mechanicsburg so soon. Furthermore, why would her singing come up as part of that?

The obvious way for Martellus to be familiar with Zola, especially since he mentioned her singing, was because she was a singer at The Island of the Monkey Girls, which was a popular hangout for college students. Martellus would have likely seen her singing there, just like Tarvek and Gil.

No, by the time Zola arrived in Mechanicsburg on her airship Tarvek had already been written off as an asset; he was in the Great Hospital under Wulfenbach guard, and then he was poisoned with Hogfarb's Resplendent Immolation. Whether Tweedle and Zola actually met prior to launching the scheme, they were the intended participants. Note that the Abbess assumes that Agatha is Zola, and plans to keep her locked up until needed, but Moloch knocks her out.

But yes, it's entirely possible that Tweedle and Zola met in Paris before all that happened. The ultimate point is that one way or another, Tweedle knows who "The Queen of Dawn" actually is.

Yes, but they were much higher level than those being used in the attack. The vast majority of Giesters couldn't resist.

There is absolutely no evidence of this. All we know is 1. Mistress Lorvale(sp) and possibly some other Geisters rebelled against Lucrezia. 2. Vrin, the highest ranking Geister at Sturmhalten, was a revenant whom Lucrezia could order to die. If you allow Othar's Twitter adventures as evidence, Oslaka the Geister says at one point that she is under no compulsion to rejoin her sisters, and willingly goes off to live as Othar's common-law wife until her death several decades later.

[eschmenk]

No, by the time Zola arrived in Mechanicsburg on her airship Tarvek had already been written off as an asset; he was in the Great Hospital under Wulfenbach guard, and then he was poisoned with Hogfarb's Resplendent Immolation. Whether Tweedle and Zola actually met prior to launching the scheme, they were the intended participants. Note that the Abbess assumes that Agatha is Zola, and plans to keep her locked up until needed, but Moloch knocks her out.

No. Unless something happened that we don't know about, the earliest Tarvek would have been written off as an asset was the day before Zola arrived in Mechanicsburg. Zola was clearly being prepped before that. It may have begun about the time Gil couldn't find her in Paris or possibly even earlier. Tarvek was apparently the intended Storm King while Zola was being prepared, not Tweedle. Here is Tarvek talking about the Storm King plan and saying it had been in the works for a long time. (He did not know that Zola was involved yet.)

We don't know exactly when Tarvek was written off. It could have easily happened while Zola was en route to Mechanicsburg or even after she was already there. In any case, once that decision was made, it would have taken some time to bring in Martellus and get him ready. There would have been very little if any chance for Martellus to coordinate with Zola. Even if Martellus was somehow available before Zola left, Zola would have been frantically getting ready to leave.

Why did you bring up the Abbess? Even if she thought Agatha was Zola (it's not clear that she ever even heard the name), that would merely prove that not everyone in on the Storm King plot could recognize Zola. It certainly wouldn't prove that Martellus could recognize Zola thanks to having been added to the Storm King plot. If anything, it is just more evidence against your idea.

Furthermore, although there is a good chance that Tarvek was poisoned after the decision to switch to Martellus was made, we can't be sure of that. There are a number of other possible explanations and a lot of moving parts. As an example: Violetta got orders to rescue Tarvek after Zola was already in Mechanicsburg. I'm not saying that's proof that Tarvek hadn't been replaced yet (he was poisoned at around the same time), but I am saying we can't be sure what happened in what order.

There is absolutely no evidence of this. All we know is 1. Mistress Lorvale(sp) and possibly some other Geisters rebelled against Lucrezia. 2. Vrin, the highest ranking Geister at Sturmhalten, was a revenant whom Lucrezia could order to die. If you allow Othar's Twitter adventures as evidence, Oslaka the Geister says at one point that she is under no compulsion to rejoin her sisters, and willingly goes off to live as Othar's common-law wife until her death several decades later.

Loremistress Milvistle rebelled, but she was high level. Vrinn made it clear that she had a better ability to resist voice commands than lower-level priestesses. Vrinn didn't want to resist orders from Lucrezia so she didn't resist those. That's straightforward. Oslaka had no orders to obey. That's also straightforward.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Tarvek was probably written off the moment Castle Wulfenbach descended on Sturmhalten. At the latest, once it became known he was a prisoner.

So before the KoJ scheme got kicked into gear and the timeline advanced years on the original schedule. Zola apparently wasn't briefed on the change, since she still expected Tarvek, but Tweedle was expecting someone other than Agatha. How could that be the case unless he knew she wasn't Zola, the prepared 'Heterodyne Girl'?

The Abbess was an idiot, and I'm wondering how that'll work out for her. Betraying the Heterodyne has got to be towards the top of the list of capital crimes in Mechanicsburg. Maybe they'll give her to the Castle as a new toy.

[eschmenk]

...since [Zola] still expected Tarvek, but Tweedle was expecting someone other than Agatha.

Aren't both of those just assumptions on your part? Do you have any solid proof? I'm not saying that they are wrong, but I don't think they should be stated as if they were facts. Also, Tweedle seemed to have no trouble identifying Agatha and recognizing that she was the Lady Heterodyne, so I think there is a good chance that he wasn't expecting anyone but her. Zola knew that Tarvek could be a Storm King and I think it's likely that she was expecting him, but unless I'm forgetting something that proves otherwise, it could be that she merely knew that he was one of the possible Storm Kings. But yes, if Zola was expecting Tarvek, that would rule out Geoduck's idea.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I'm on break so I can't provide links, but the fight in the Herbarium/Library was the only time we saw Zola and Tarvek interact. Zola made it pretty clear she knew who Tarvek was, and said she was going to keep him as a pet (she and Tweedle should make a cute couple, given their possessiveness).

Of course, Tarvek then reminded her that to be in his family is to have a good chance of being killed by someone in the family. By trying to kill her.

[eschmenk]

I'm on break so I can't provide links, but the fight in the Herbarium/Library was the only time we saw Zola and Tarvek interact. Zola made it pretty clear she knew who Tarvek was, and said she was going to keep him as a pet (she and Tweedle should make a cute couple, given their possessiveness).

Of course Zola knew who Tarvek was, but that doesn't address the issues I raised and it doesn't mean that the things you stated as facts are necessarily true. If you only have such a flimsy reason to think something is true, please don't state it as a fact. In this case, that wasn't a reason at all!

Also, no, the time you described was not the only time we saw Zola and Tarvek interact.

[slayerx]

Travek Knew Zola in Paris but he did not know that she was going to become the order's false heterodyne. He thought she was just some actress, though after he found out that she was the false heterodyne he knew she would be trouble. He likely realized that the order would not make some moron actress into the fake heterodyne and thus the fact that she fooled both tarvek and Gil back in paris was a bad sign. This also means he did not know that Zola was a member of the mongfish family

As for Tweedle we don't really know how much he knew...He may have known just as little as Tarvek did, but unlike Tarvek he may have received more information about the order's plan as they went into motion. The moment the order decided to send Zola to Mechanicsburg to play her role they may have sought out tweedle to prepare him to play his role as king. This ofcourse would include informing him about the true identity of their fake. After Agatha emerged from the castle and staked her claim, Tweedle switched gears to plotting to kidnap agatha

Another thing to consider is that there are multiple factions within the knights of jove. Remember, even though he was aware of the plan, the plan to make use of Zola was NOT Tarvek's plan, and the plan was being rushed. Grandma (and formally grandpa) led the order along with a council of others(who are also now dead). Tarvek, Tweedle, and Lucrezia are the three major sub factions within the knight's of Jove along with a bunch of smaller factions probably led by other family members. Tarvek and Tweedle each had the strongest claim to the storm king crown, while Lucrezia tried to steer them away from the storm king.

Really, how much tweedle knew about Zola before the plan went ahead could depend on whose plan it was in the first place. If this plan was actually Tweedle's then he would know everything about Zola, and he was the one who chose to rush ahead with the plan. However if the plan came from the grandparents, then both tweedle and Tarvek might have been kept in the dark about the details. The grandparents might want to be able to pick for themselves which one would get to use the plan to become the storm king and thus keeping them in the dark would prevent them from trying to influence zola... However when Agatha made her existence known, the grandparents decided to rush ahead with the plan, and since Tarvek was locked up by wulfenbach, Tweedle's faction was able to push his claim by the simple fact that Tarvek was missing

[geoduck]

One bit of info I failed to mention before- Tweedle mentions Zola by name while talking to Seffie in the Refuge of Storms, in the context of possibly still using her as a fake Heterodyne. That still doesn't tell us when exactly he first learned of her existence, but he does know who she is.

[Deliverance]

Okay. I didn't see that coming. That's taking spark craziness in violating the laws of nature further than I expected. The master is seriously pissed off.

[Douglas]

Ladies and Gents, I hope you enjoyed this demonstration of why you do not piss off Master Simon Voltaire in his home city. The show is now over, you may return to your normal activities. Good night.

[HandofShadows]

The Master is pulling off the same trick Der Kastel does all the time.

[Shining Wrath]

Uhhhhh .... I think people will speak of this moment with awe in their voices for some time to come. I count 47 geisterdamen; soon there will be ... fewer.

[stsasser]

The Master is pulling off the same trick Der Kastel does all the time.

Did Der Kestle ever make a trap that people fell UP into it?

[eee]

THAT'S impressive. He's got them, now let's see what he does with them.

And I hope the MoP is adroit enough to realize, the Geisters are a distraction. The threat is something else. And he needs to be able to find and neutralize it before it takes over his city.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Did Der Kestle ever make a trap that people fell UP into it?

Yes.

Grey Wolf

[Shining Wrath]

Yes.

Grey Wolf

Not exactly a trap people fell up into - more of a display of power for the candidate Heterodyne.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Not exactly a trap people fell up into - more of a display of power for the candidate Heterodyne.

As Agatha points out, the only reason that was not the same trap as the MoP's is because the Kastle needed a Heterodyne.

Speaking of traps, am I the only one disappointed we never see the Island of Tiny Monsters in action?

GW

[Shining Wrath]

As Agatha points out, the only reason that was not the same trap as the MoP's is because the Kastle needed a Heterodyne.

Speaking of traps, am I the only one disappointed we never see the Island of Tiny Monsters in action?

GW

If you are standing with a machete in your hand at the far end, and I step onto a rope bridge, it's not so much a trap as it is a test of courage and trust. Also, the ability to lift 50 or so paving stones and one person (even the Reubenesque Agatha) is not quite as impressive as ~50 massive blocks of stone ridden by geisters.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

If you are standing with a machete in your hand at the far end, and I step onto a rope bridge, it's not so much a trap as it is a test of courage and trust. Also, the ability to lift 50 or so paving stones and one person (even the Reubenesque Agatha) is not quite as impressive as ~50 massive blocks of stone ridden by geisters.

Your point being? The original question was "Did Der Kestle ever make a trap that people fell UP into it?". I think it is quite clear that the Kestle can in fact trap people in the same way. Are you really claiming that the Kestle can't lift as much as the MoP? And even if so, so what? It's no less effective of a trap.

GW

[Rogar Demonblud]

When fully powered, Der Kestle could probably fire entire blocks of Mechanicsburg as Intercontinental Block Missiles.

Scary thought. Kestle said it would take about three years of generating with minimal outflow to let it be fully charged. It's had over two and a half, with possibly no outflow. Of course, we don't know how much came in from the lightning strikes, but we also don't know how much was used crushing the invaders like the pitiful insects they were.

Agatha could have a fully armed and operational battle station homicidal pile of stone once the time stop is broken.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Kestle said it would take about three years of generating with minimal outflow to let it be fully charged. It's had over two and a half, with possibly no outflow.

Sure, there was no outflow... but there was also no inflow. The river would be as time-stopped as everything else in Mechanisburg.

GW

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Sure, there was no outflow... but there was also no inflow. The river would be as time-stopped as everything else in Mechanisburg.

GW

I'm...not sure that's true. You'll note Mechanicsburg isn't currently sitting in a lake, which the river would have caused otherwise. I *think* that's something that the writers would have figured out? Can't be positive though.

Plus the fact that the castle is still running seems to imply that the castle isn't necessarily constrained by the same rules? Not sure.

[The Glyphstone]

Isn't the source of the river inside the city?

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Isn't the source of the river inside the city?

Good point. Judging from this picture, though, there still seems to be an active river.