Erfworld Thread IX: By the Flower and Gray Skull

[eschmenk]

...The Little Caesars Hamstard thing was funny though.

Yep.

Well, Parson is chief warlord again. That's a thing now.
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Fair point I suppose. But then in my opinion this is a text update lacking new content. It's just a review of what we know.

Well, it also shows us a bit of Parson is thinking (and apparently not thinking), confirms that Benjamin is still sharp (I was beginning to wonder about that), and it raises (granted, not necessarily for the first time) the question of how much more Caesar knows than Parson realizes. There was no mention of Vinny taking Faq city. Perhaps that didn't happen yet, but maybe that's something that Caesar isn't telling Parson about? Don King and Bunny apparently knew that Jillian had captured GKC. They died before telling Caesar the specifics, but did anyone else in TV know and tell Caesar? Vinny could have learned that it was Jillian's intention from Ansom by now or he might have gotten some intelligence from Faq units or treasury documents. (He would certainly want to know what Jillian was up to!) Anyway, Caesar might already know that Jillian took GKC or he might find out very quickly. Jillian wasn't exactly trying to keep it a secret anymore. Maybe that secret isn't such a secret or won't be for long. Since GKC city fell easily to Jillian, Caesar is likely to doubt Parson's claims about GK's guns.

I wouldn't be surprised if Caesar doesn't entirely trust Parson, but decided to gamble on an alliance with him anyway. Parson may find out that he's still having trouble with people withholding information from him, but this time it's Caesar. Or maybe Caesar really is a fairly simple-minded thug. He seemed to completely fall for the lie about poisoned blood. IDK.

[Jasdoif]

Now I'm imagining what pizza delivery would be like in Erfworld... delivery time in turns, extra charge to deliver through battle hexes, chains of flying units to expedite delivery, etc.

...do you think Parson's concept for an agribusiness that sells rations to its neighbors is pizza delivery? Same turn delivery using flyer chains, your choice of a wide variety of toppings, and still costs less than the upkeep that'd pop your normal rations?

[DigoDragon]

There was no mention of Vinny taking Faq city. Perhaps that didn't happen yet, but maybe that's something that Caesar isn't telling Parson about?

Another question-- Did Stanley tell Parson their side got a Predictomancer? Unless that too hasn't happened yet, the Tool should of sensed Marie suddenly joining his side.

...do you think Parson's concept for an agribusiness that sells rations to its neighbors is pizza delivery? Same turn delivery using flyer chains, your choice of a wide variety of toppings, and still costs less than the upkeep that'd pop your normal rations?

Guess my humorous idea dusted faster than Ossomer off a flying carpet.

[Jasdoif]

Guess my humorous idea dusted faster than Ossomer off a flying carpet.

Wait, what? You don't think sourmander salami slices sell sufficiently?

[Aquillion]

An interesting thought, unrelated to anything happening now:

If a Chief Warlord can order their overlord not to disband them (when it would be vital to the side), can they also order their overlord to make them a heir? It's not hard to see situations where doing so would be absolutely essential for the side to survive.

[DataNinja]

An interesting thought, unrelated to anything happening now:

If a Chief Warlord can order their overlord not to disband them (when it would be vital to the side), can they also order their overlord to make them a heir? It's not hard to see situations where doing so would be absolutely essential for the side to survive.

On the other hand, that, unlike disbanding, also costs resources, so you'd have to argue that having the heir outweighs the costs of spending those resources.

[Jasdoif]

If a Chief Warlord can order their overlord not to disband them (when it would be vital to the side), can they also order their overlord to make them a heir? It's not hard to see situations where doing so would be absolutely essential for the side to survive.

Hm. I suppose it would depend on if the cost of promoting someone to heir was enough of an expenditure to weaken the side's ability to continue.

I guess a case could also be made, in the case of the Chief Warlord declaring themselves heir, that naming oneself heir while in prime position to overthrow the Ruler with force would not be in the side's best interests regardless. Or that in theory, a Chief Warlord is going to be targeted and eliminated before the Ruler is exposed, so there's not enough added security for the side to declare it "vital".

[Aquillion]

On the other hand, that, unlike disbanding, also costs resources, so you'd have to argue that having the heir outweighs the costs of spending those resources.

Yeah. But if you're in a situation where the overlord is unequivocally about to die, it's obviously best for the side for to have an heir, so it would be within the Chief Warlord's duty to order the overlord to appoint one. And if they're unequivocally the best choice for the side, they could order the overlord to appoint them.

[aurilee]

Yeah. But if you're in a situation where the overlord is unequivocally about to die, it's obviously best for the side for to have an heir, so it would be within the Chief Warlord's duty to order the overlord to appoint one. And if they're unequivocally the best choice for the side, they could order the overlord to appoint them.

Also, if that side is obscenely wealthy, then the cost of an heir wouldn't much of a factor, and if your leader has a habit of impulsively riding out into battle and putting himself in danger...then ordering an heir seems like a pretty good idea.

[Jasdoif]

Yeah. But if you're in a situation where the overlord is unequivocally about to die, it's obviously best for the side for to have an heir, so it would be within the Chief Warlord's duty to order the overlord to appoint one. And if they're unequivocally the best choice for the side, they could order the overlord to appoint them.

A potential problem there, is that both instances of designating an heir we've seen involve physical contact with the heir being so designated. If that's a strict requirement of the designation procedure, there wouldn't be nearly as many opportunities for it.

[Aquillion]

Well, if you're going to order your liege to make you heir, there are serious political concerns. My understanding is that ordering your overlord around only works when they actually believe your orders are vital to the side's survival - Parson was able to order Stanley not to disband him because Stanley knew, deep down inside, that disbanding Parson was a terrible idea.

If your liege is about to die, that's not a concern - it's unlikely they can come up with a rationale to ignore your order at that point. But if they're just constantly risking their lives, and you order them to make you heir, they can stop for a moment, convince themselves that you're planning to overthrow them and that this would be bad for the side, and disband you (or, if you ordered them not to disband you, they could start moving towards a situation where it wouldn't hurt the side to do so, ie. lining up a competent replacement - luckily for Parson, Stanley isn't smart enough to play with the rules like this and seems to have decided that it's simpler to just trust him.)

So it's playing with fire. You don't just need a situation where you believe it's in the best interests of the side to give the order; you need a situation where the overlord can't weasel out by convincing themselves your orders aren't good for the side (and most overlords are used to thinking of themselves as being the one who knows best - again, Stanley is probably an exception here despite his bluster. Deep down, he knows he's in over his head, so he's more vulnerable to being pushed around.)

Basically, if you give an order to your overlord in a situation where they'll have a chance to sit back and reflect on it later, you're sort of depending on them ultimately being OK with it.

[JavaScribe]

A potential problem there, is that both instances of designating an heir we've seen involve physical contact with the heir being so designated. If that's a strict requirement of the designation procedure, there wouldn't be nearly as many opportunities for it.

https://wiki.erfworld.com/IPTSF_Text_26

[eschmenk]

Another question-- Did Stanley tell Parson their side got a Predictomancer? Unless that too hasn't happened yet, the Tool should of sensed Marie suddenly joining his side.

I'd guess not. Stanley knew the arkenpliers had gone to the MK because of a "caster thing" involving Sizemore, and Stanley would have sensed that Marie was a predictomancer with zero upkeep, which implied she was decrypted. He would have also sensed the other two decrypted casters. He didn't seem to have mentioned any of that to Parson, though. If he had, I think it would have come up in Parson's notes about Wanda.

Stanley apparently barely had time to tell Parson about GK falling, so he probably said little else. On top of that, Stanley had gotten angry at Antium and Bonnie because he was jealous of their loyalty to Wanda. (That's probably one reason Parson became Chief Warlord again so quickly.) Stanley had gone back to basics and was drilling like a piker with the Juggle Elves and was avoiding dealing with things involving Wanda and the arkenpliers and casters because those subjects made him feel like he didn't know what he was doing. Given that, he probably would have been somewhat reluctant to bring those subjects up (and would have downplayed them if he did), even if Maggie had plenty of juice.

Guess my humorous idea dusted faster than Ossomer off a flying carpet.

Actually, I tried to think a little about what the toppings might be like. Maybe there would be pepper-onies, which might be a type of spicy ponies? That doesn't sound very appealing, though, so I stopped.

[Jasdoif]

https://wiki.erfworld.com/IPTSF_Text_26

Ah, happening in text would explain why I didn't remember seeing it Nevermind, then.

Actually, I tried to think a little about what the toppings might be like. Maybe there would be pepper-onies, which might be a type of spicy ponies? That doesn't sound very appealing, though, so I stopped.

I think since pig-related foods do pop, traditional toppings should be acceptable.

Parson's idea about centering an economy on mount harvesting needs mounts, though. Hence, sourmander salami slices. Tingly tart taste, for the perfect pizza pie. Gobwin-tested, Titan-approved*.

Aside from that, pepper-oni sounds more like a variety of daemon.


* Where "Titan" may or may not mean "extraterrestrial warlord summoned by one wielder of a Titanic artifact into the service of a wielder of a different Titanic artifact".

[Kareasint]

Normally, but that's boring.

What if your rations don't pop a pizza and you really want one? ;)

Ask your ruler to spring for a small upkeep up charge.

[keybounce]

Yes. Updating.

God, I was wrong. Text updates, give so much more meat than comics ever could. /s

I like that mid comic, Rob does a recap comic. It's like he doubts we are paying attention.

Or maybe he pays attention to the confusion in the forums?

[DigoDragon]

A potential problem there, is that both instances of designating an heir we've seen involve physical contact with the heir being so designated. If that's a strict requirement of the designation procedure, there wouldn't be nearly as many opportunities for it.

Tangent question-- can Stanley designate Jed as heir?

I'd guess not. Stanley knew the arkenpliers had gone to the MK because of a "caster thing" involving Sizemore, and Stanley would have sensed that Marie was a predictomancer with zero upkeep, which implied she was decrypted. He would have also sensed the other two decrypted casters. He didn't seem to have mentioned any of that to Parson, though. If he had, I think it would have come up in Parson's notes about Wanda.

Dang it, Tool. These are things your chief warlord needs to know!

Well maybe it's a good thing so many of GK's important units are off in the field/other places cause I think there's soon gonna be a bunch o' caster barbarians about. :3

[-D-]

Or maybe he pays attention to the confusion in the forums?

First what confusion? Second? Why would he? Besides, it's not like this summary summarizes everything.

[Zalabim]

To question the actual content in the update: What do you think Benjamin asked Parson about the bracer?

The Tool probably would have told him more, assuming all the rest that we've seen has happened by the time of this writing, but Bonnie ran out of juice while working out the terms of their partnership. That might also not be information he wants to share over Bonnie's connection.

[Leewei]

It occurs to me that Moneymancers like Benjamin would have an innate ability to determine the value of things -- gems, equipment, units, and statements. It may well be that Benjamin has a way to tell when someone is misleading him or his side.

[Aquillion]

Another question-- Did Stanley tell Parson their side got a Predictomancer? Unless that too hasn't happened yet, the Tool should of sensed Marie suddenly joining his side.

It's entirely possible that Marie will be slipping through TV's portal in a few moments to speak to him. After all, she's a predictomancer, so she can predict where she needs to go.

She's probably going to be the catalyst for whatever happens next, either way, since she's the only fully-informed unit on GK's side.

[HandofShadows]

I expect Marie to be very busy working at saving Wanda.

[-D-]

I expect Marie to be very busy working at saving Wanda.

I wonder if Marie will give Wanda a verbal smack-down she deserves, or just blindly adore her...

[-D-]

New comic. Haha, just kidding.

[Razade]

New comic. Haha, just kidding.

Erfworld's done pretty well updating on time for over a year. They missed one for the holidays, the horror, and one today. That's better than it's ever been.

[Aquillion]

Plus, at least now, every time they update a comic we get a "heads up, we're missing a comic for [reasons]" (even if sometimes [reasons] is "we can't tell you the reasons.")

This does make things a bit better.

[-D-]

Erfworld's done pretty well updating on time for over a year. They missed one for the holidays, the horror, and one today. That's better than it's ever been.

It's funny. Didn't you complain about Erfworld breaking the chain, and being miffed at it?

I don't care. But I meant it as a sarcastic(?) barb. The more interesting part is "I don't want to tell you reasons"

[Razade]

It's funny. Didn't you complain about Erfworld breaking the chain, and being miffed at it?

I complained at Rob's tone.

I don't care. But I meant it as a sarcastic(?) bard. The more interesting part is "I don't want to tell you reasons"

It's barb. And he doesn't owe it to us to tell us why. It continues my problem with the above however in that his tone is, as usual, pretty bratty.

[DigoDragon]

It continues my problem with the above however in that his tone is, as usual, pretty bratty.

I thought the tone was okay up until he mentioned the part about suggestions. I dunno. Probably could be worded better.

[danelsan]

Personally, I have zero problems with his tone. If I had to deal with the kind of feedback this comic gets, I'd really like to have people make suggestions about my work in a manner consistent with "treat others the way you'd like to be treated" too. Luckily I don't have to deal with so many opinionated people ^_^