Build Showcase: the Were-lord

[Kurald Galain]

Notwithstanding having been persuaded to think otherwise, thematically I don't have the objection that Beoric, et al, seem to have. It seems plausible enough to me, especially in the setting, that a martial leader would be able to exchange physically assaulting one of its allies with verbally assaulting them, and particularly if they have trained to do so, to the point that they can get an ally to swing at an enemy in the same window of time it would take for them to make an attack of opportunity on them.

For an army sargeant, possibly. For a frenzying werewolf, not so much.

[Waddacku]

For an army sargeant, possibly. For a frenzying werewolf, not so much.

A frenzying werewolf that is also a level 10+ elite combatant, using Warlord options of all things. That is, the combat group coordination ability of one of the most elite warriors in an entire D&D country.
But that's still pretending that the name off the rules element matters when discussing whether a mechanical interaction with it checks out, and it doesn't.

On that note, yes, the interaction is obviously not what the author of Ninth Legion Student intended, but this isn't a case of a tortured interpretation of a vague wording. It's literally just applying the rules step-by-step following crystal clear instructions. Now, I absolutely presume most groups would simply run it in the obviously intended fashion, but in organized play that would have been breaking the rules.

[Kurald Galain]

But that's still pretending that the name off the rules element matters when discussing whether a mechanical interaction with it checks out, and it doesn't.

Check your context.

We have already shown that mechanically this doesn't work. The counterargument was, yes, mechanically it doesn't work but thematically some people like it. So we've been pointing out that (in addition to not working mechanically it doesn't work thematically either.

[analyst123]

A frenzying werewolf that is also a level 10+ elite combatant, using Warlord options of all things. That is, the combat group coordination ability of one of the most elite warriors in an entire D&D country.

I think it does not matter too much if someone finds the idea of an army general (warlord class),tainted with werewolf curse(werewolf theme), can control or even benefit more from his frenzy (Werewolf Frenzy stance) through rigorous training and studying (ninth legion student feat) thematically unacceptable. What matters is that if people are willing to refluff whatever name/flavor text to follow the mechanical side of the rule. In fact, refluff is encouraged in 4e. So whether or not the were-lord combo works thematically really depends on one's willingness and imagination.

Though, personally, i think the existing flavor text works very well in this case, gives a nice nature vs nurture touch, i.e. born with the werewolf heritage, but trained as a ninth legion warlord...

[Hawkstar]

For an army sargeant, possibly. For a frenzying werewolf, not so much.

It's a Frenzying Army Sergeant Werewolf.

[Kurald Galain]

It's a Frenzying Army Sergeant Werewolf.

Yes, it's a self-contradictory bit of nonsense. We get that.

[Waddacku]

Check your context.

We have already shown that mechanically this doesn't work. The counterargument was, yes, mechanically it doesn't work but thematically some people like it. So we've been pointing out that (in addition to not working mechanically it doesn't work thematically either.

Oh, right, the shield thing. Yes, the oversight of not disabling the disabling of shield benefits does in practice stop this combo from working. Fitting, since it was based on an oversight to start with.

Yes, it's a self-contradictory bit of nonsense. We get that.

Now you're just being an ass. A depiction of some elements not fitting your preferences does not make it nonsense or a contradiction.

[Crivens]

... On that note, yes, the interaction is obviously not what the author of Ninth Legion Student intended, but this isn't a case of a tortured interpretation of a vague wording. It's literally just applying the rules step-by-step following crystal clear instructions. Now, I absolutely presume most groups would simply run it in the obviously intended fashion, but in organized play that would have been breaking the rules.

Reminds me of a story...

A professor was notorious for leaving complicated demonstrations to the students, with no more than a remark that "It is obvious that..." One day a student interrupted. "Professor, is it really obvious that the second line follows from the first?" The professor looked at the board, wrinkled his brow, paced about the room for a few minutes, then, triumphantly said, "Why yes, it is obvious."

Waddacku et al, thanks for the feedback. : )

[Dr.Samurai]

Kurald, what is your malfunction? Relax. This proposed build won't harm you or anyone you care about.