The Verdure [Base Class][PEACH]

[Kaskus]

I will review all the adaptation ideas when I have a little more time but I did make some progress...

Stride Adaptations are now gone! all options have either been moved to other categories or made part of the Verdant Stride class feature.

Carapace Adaptations finally removed from the list

Places added for Blossom and Dominion Adaptations though I haven't filled any in as of yet

Added spell list for Greater Spell Blossom - Please let me know what you think

Put the spell lists for all Spell Blossom Abilities in Spoilers to clean up the overall description and put each spell within each list on its own line to improve readability.

Finally, I took out the questions from the third post and replaced it with new feats! There are only two (so far) and I think they are pretty straightforward but let me know if you have any comments.

On a separate note: I started working on another Plant themed class today so hopefully I will have enough of it put together to post soon as well. I also have ideas for 2 more!

[Kaskus]

Spell Blossom:
-Brew Potion- expanded to the whole druid list, maybe. You are treated as the caster of the effect- this has relevance with certain spells which affect others, such as Charm Animal (potion-ed meat is a classic trick).

I am instinctively disinclined to this idea. I feel like everything the verdure does is about bringing the power of nature to bear and using the surroundings to their advantage whereas making potions is a type of manufacturing and feels out of place to me. Charm animal specifically is out of theme for the Verdure as well (we are working with plants here, not animals). With that said, I wonder if I should pull charm person from the lists.

-Insect-related plants- gain access to Summon Nature's Ally 3 (vermin only), Summon Swarm (spiders only), Control Vermin, Insect scouts, Giant vermin, Cape of Wasps, and Repel Vermin.

This is an idea i am much more open to. I may even make a hive plant form adaptation and have that as a pre-req for this.

Plant:
-Motile Plant Plant Form: They move up to 15 ft per round.

I specifically would like to keep plants from being too much like creatures. They are not meant to be minions per se and I feel that this makes them into such. There is enough support in the class already for a minion build i think for this to be unnecessary.

-Rooted Plant Form: Entangle Synergy: Project a 5ft aura of entangle around each plant.

This is now the Entangling Plant adaptation. I listed it under the Plant adaptations but made it a hybrid. What do you think of that and should it then also be listed under the entangle adaptations category?

-Aura Synergy: Plants are extra durable (+3 AC) within your Dominion. Also, you can summon them anywhere in your Aura, not just within 30 ft.

I did a play on this. I have added "Bolstering Dominion" to the dominion adaptations. The effects are modeled on the bonuses undead receive within an area affected by the desecrate spell.

[aimlessPolymath]

I am instinctively disinclined to this idea. I feel like everything the verdure does is about bringing the power of nature to bear and using the surroundings to their advantage whereas making potions is a type of manufacturing and feels out of place to me. Charm animal specifically is out of theme for the Verdure as well (we are working with plants here, not animals). With that said, I wonder if I should pull charm person from the lists.

's cool. My idea for that was focusing on spell blossom as providing ingredients for use with brewing, but if you don't want itemcrafting to be a focus of this class, that's fine.

I did a play on this. I have added "Bolstering Dominion" to the dominion adaptations. The effects are modeled on the bonuses undead receive within an area affected by the desecrate spell.

Looks good.

I specifically would like to keep plants from being too much like creatures. They are not meant to be minions per se and I feel that this makes them into such. There is enough support in the class already for a minion build i think for this to be unnecessary.

OK.

This is now the Entangling Plant adaptation. I listed it under the Plant adaptations but made it a hybrid. What do you think of that and should it then also be listed under the entangle adaptations category?

...Both, maybe? Synergy effects like that are harder to place, yeah.

[Kaskus]

Entangle:
-Overgrowth- as a standard action, you may expand an existing area of entanglement. Choose a point within its area- it now extends in a 10 ft spread from that point in addition to its existing area. Those within the new area must immediately save against the effect.

How do you see this differing from Enlarge Entangle? Do you see this as a leg or blister moving out from the main area? That is what I pictured. If that is so, what do you think of this wording...

"As a standard action, you may designate a 15x15 area adjacent to an area affected by your Entangle ability to be come affected as if by your Entangle ability. This area is treated as part of the area next to which it is created and the effect ends when the Entangle effect on the area to which it is attached ends."

-Luring Entangle- As a standard action, you may make a touch attack against someone within 10 ft of a zone of entanglement. If it hits, make a combat maneuver check. If you succeed, you pull them 15 ft into the zone of entanglement.

This seems to be covered by Entangling Reach. Am I missing something? The current Entangling Reach adaptation is automatic when they come within 10 ft of the area. Do you think it should require an action and an attack?

-Entangling Dominion: +2 to save DC of Entangle for those within your Dominion.

Super straight-forward. Stolen & added to both the Entangle list and the Dominion list.

Aura of Dominion:
-Lashing Vines- make (plant damage) attacks against anyone in your aura as a standard action.

Love this. Added to Dominion adaptations.

-Grasping Creepers: As a standard action, choose up to four unoccupied spaces within the area of your dominion. Those spaces now require a DC X Strength check to exit, expending 10 ft of movement per attempt. Repeating this standard action lets you reselect the affected squares.

As you have it there, a creature with a move of 30 can make 3 strength checks, is that right? Also, I am a bigger fan of skill checks than ability checks so what do you think of Escape Artist instead or perhaps a Reflex Save? This is sort of like diet hold person that can be used on multiple opponents. I am having a hard time judging what level at which it would be okay to have an ability like this. Aura of Dominion is gained at 5th level so the first time this adaptation could be selected would be 6th. A wizard can cast holder person at 3rd level but it affects only 1 creature.

What do you think about:
- Making it a single Reflex Save and not worry about the movement cost (for simplicity).
- Making it affect 1 space per 2 Verdure levels to a maximum of your Cha mod? This would likely mean 3 squares at level 6 when this first becomes an option and it would scale up to a max of 10 at level 20 (more likely to be Cha limited by then - perhaps 5 or 6?).
-Alternative to the above, make it one square at a time as a swift action and limit the maximum available at once to Cha mod. This would let the PC lay them like traps. If going this route, should they be able to persist outside the dominion if say the Verdure moved?

-Hedge Maze: As a standard action, you may designate a 15 ft wall within your aura. This wall is impassible without a Strength check. Each square of it has X hit points. Expends a use of (ability) to use. (Maybe not, actually- what if you move?)

So, when you use the word "maze" it makes me think of getting lost. The dominion is decent in size but not monstrously so. What if this ability allowed you to move a target within your dominion to another place within your dominion? Ooh! How about an adaptation that cause overgrowth which does no affect movement but does affect sight. Then an adaptation that builds on that and allows you to move a target from any point in your domain to any other point? Think of them coming to attack you and glimpsing you through the branches. Then they push through to strike and instead of finding you, they find themselves at the edge of the dominion, possibly where they started.

Note: One of the other Plant Classes I have an idea for is partially based around the idea of "The hedge" as a pseudo-extradimensional pathway to give them neat mobility, stealth & strike abilities. It is my "Plant Rogue."

-Draining Dominion: A replacement for the other Vampiric carapace ability. Creatures you designate within your Dominion take 1 point of negative energy damage per round. You heal 1 hp for each hit point drained. Creatures which have taken this damage more than 10 times in the past hour become fatigued (Fort save each round negates, reduced save DC).

I feel like it should have a cost. Perhaps it requires a standard action? Also, one thing I have had in the back of my mind is the idea of a fungus aspected Verdure which would play on the more necromantic type abilities (Corpse Seed, etc.). This might make a good dominion ability for that theme.

Some other ideas I had there were
1. Making the Entangle ability affect an area as if by the Grease spell rather than the Entangle spell
2. A Fungus/Mushroom Plant Form - perhaps burster already fills this role?
3. A fungal companion ability that gives them an aura like hive but instead of damage, it has some sort of disease-like effect.

Not sure if there is enough there for a "build" and also not sure if those ideas work together necessarily. I thought of trying to put together an archetype for it maybe? What do you think?

-Controlled Entangle: If your aura overlaps the area of an area of entanglement, you may extend your aura into that area as long as they are connected.

This sounds fine. Added to both the Entangle and Dominion adaptations lists.

I also added Entangling Plants to the Entangle adaptations list so that it now appears in both places.

[aimlessPolymath]

On Overgrowth: How do you see this differing from Enlarge Entangle? Do you see this as a leg or blister moving out from the main area? That is what I pictured. If that is so, what do you think of this wording...

Yep! Looks fine.

More replies because I missed that you edited your post:

This seems to be covered by Entangling Reach. Am I missing something? The current Entangling Reach adaptation is automatic when they come within 10 ft of the area. Do you think it should require an action and an attack?

Whoops.

What do you think about:
- Making it a single Reflex Save and not worry about the movement cost (for simplicity).
- Making it affect 1 space per 2 Verdure levels to a maximum of your Cha mod? This would likely mean 3 squares at level 6 when this first becomes an option and it would scale up to a max of 10 at level 20 (more likely to be Cha limited by then - perhaps 5 or 6?).
-Alternative to the above, make it one square at a time as a swift action and limit the maximum available at once to Cha mod. This would let the PC lay them like traps. If going this route, should they be able to persist outside the dominion if say the Verdure moved?

I prefer the second alternative. I'd be OK with Reflex saves, but I'd like to allow Strength checks as an alternate option for those who prefer to break free physically.
What about a CMB check or Escape Artist check to escape? Those values should be fairly similar, so DC-ing it shouldn't be too hard.
On persisting outside: Maybe not? I think of the aura as active control of plants- in this case, you use it to grab people actively. Depends on how you fluff it, really.

So, when you use the word "maze" it makes me think of getting lost. The dominion is decent in size but not monstrously so. What if this ability allowed you to move a target within your dominion to another place within your dominion? Ooh! How about an adaptation that cause overgrowth which does no affect movement but does affect sight. Then an adaptation that builds on that and allows you to move a target from any point in your domain to any other point? Think of them coming to attack you and glimpsing you through the branches. Then they push through to strike and instead of finding you, they find themselves at the edge of the dominion, possibly where they started.

Interesting idea, and I'm not entirely sure how easily it can be fluffed- this sounds more like some sort of decoys or self-teleportation to me. Tried to write a variant maze with Safe Space below:

I feel like it should have a cost. Perhaps it requires a standard action? Also, one thing I have had in the back of my mind is the idea of a fungus aspected Verdure which would play on the more necromantic type abilities (Corpse Seed, etc.). This might make a good dominion ability for that theme.

Some other ideas I had there were
1. Making the Entangle ability affect an area as if by the Grease spell rather than the Entangle spell
2. A Fungus/Mushroom Plant Form - perhaps burster already fills this role?
3. A fungal companion ability that gives them an aura like hive but instead of damage, it has some sort of disease-like effect.

Not sure if there is enough there for a "build" and also not sure if those ideas work together necessarily. I thought of trying to put together an archetype for it maybe? What do you think?

Standard action is OK, maybe up the damage if you do, and cap the resulting healing.

Entangle doing Grease instead: Grease is a very irritating hoser spell which requires Balance checks to deal with. What do you think of resinous tar? Feels more like a layer of sticky fungus vs. a thin coating of grease/
2. Burster fills it pretty well, but the statistics of plants don't feel quite right. What do you think of a "save DC over attack damage" type adaptation which synergizes with burster:
Fungal Plants: When creating a Plant, you may choose to make it a fungus, emphasizing its chemical traits over its physical ones. Fungi gain 2 extra hit points per verdure level, but have an AC of only 10 + BMB. They take a -3 penalty to attack rolls, but add +2 to the save DC of any of their abilities.
3. Huh. Start from the puffball, work your way from there? Could also do a set of companion-specific adaptations (sneak attack for crawling vine, grab for carnivorous flower, <something fungusy?> for puffball, power attack for treant).


Continuing (I will post adaptations faster than you can add them! Muahahahah!):

Destructive Dominion:
At your option, you may have selected unattended manufactured objects and structures within your Dominion take 1 point of damage per level per round, bypassing hardness.

(Siege mode!)

Flowering Blossoms: Delay Spell, but for Blossoms. Take a few extra rounds before setting them off, + to CL. Alternative name: Blossom Cultivation. Since they're all debuffs, it's probably OK compared to the possibility of buff abuse.

Sculpting Dominion:
You may reshape your dominion, only to trap intruders within. You may designate any number of squares within your Dominion to be excluded from its area, as long as the remaining area remains as a contiguous area containing you.

(niche choice, but handy)

Safe Space:
As a full-round action while maintaining your aura, you may cause its edges to coalesce into a 5-foot thick wall of thorns. This wall remains as long as it remains within your aura, even if its radius changes in the meantime. You may designate parts of the edges to be unaffected by this if you so choose.

(since the wall is 5 ft thick but you increase the radius in 10-ft increments, hedge maze!)

Greensense:
You have blindsense which detects creatures within your aura.

Anchor Aura:
As a free action, you can designate a location for your aura to emanate from instead of yourself. As long as you remain within your dominion, this persists. If you leave, it immediately collapses. You may recenter your aura on yourself as another free action.


Also, thought: Either the difficult terrain or the thorns should be removed from the base Dominion. The two have a nonbo with each other (spend a move action? difficult terrain means the thorns don't trigger) and entangle already applies difficult terrain.

[Kaskus]

Overgrowth added to the list of Entangle adaptations.

@aimlessPolymath...
I was looking at some older notes as well...
- Changed the Corpse Seed adaptation to raise the body as a Yellow Musk Zombie. I had thought they were more powerful than standard zombies but looked again and they are basically the same. My question is... Do you think multiple YMZs should be able to be created (horde) up to a certain limit? Also, do you think they should be able to scale so they remain relevant at higher levels? Of course, if we want to go full necro, we could create adaptations for them specifically as well (or allow companion adaptations to be applied?).

- You had initially recommended that Friendly Entangle be incorporated into the base ability and I appear to have ignored that comment. Do you still feel that is should be so?

- Do you think Advance Companion should be limited to a one time pick?

- Added language to Evolved Companion about multi-selecting it

I prefer the second alternative. I'd be OK with Reflex saves, but I'd like to allow Strength checks as an alternate option for those who prefer to break free physically.
What about a CMB check or Escape Artist check to escape? Those values should be fairly similar, so DC-ing it shouldn't be too hard.
On persisting outside: Maybe not? I think of the aura as active control of plants- in this case, you use it to grab people actively. Depends on how you fluff it, really.

I 100% agreea bout the concept of the aura so no persistence!

Would it be too complicated to allow a Strength check or an Escape Artist check and have them with different DCs? Skills scale faster than abilities so my thought is that giving them separate DCs will keep the overall difficulty the same while allowing strong characters to be strong and wiggly characters to be wiggly...

"Dominating Tendrils (Dominion):
As a swift action, you may designate a 5x5 area within your aura of dominion to be grow dominating tendrils. When unoccupied, these spaces do not appear any different than the rest of your dominion. However if occupied, tendril-like vines rise up and grasp the target, holding them in place. An affected creature may attempt to break free by attempting a Strength check with a DC equal to 10 + Your Charisma Modifier or an Escape Artist Check with DC equal to 10 + Your BMB + Your Charisma Modifier."

Interesting idea, and I'm not entirely sure how easily it can be fluffed- this sounds more like some sort of decoys or self-teleportation to me. Tried to write a variant maze with Safe Space below:...

Safe Space:
As a full-round action while maintaining your aura, you may cause its edges to coalesce into a 5-foot thick wall of thorns. This wall remains as long as it remains within your aura, even if its radius changes in the meantime. You may designate parts of the edges to be unaffected by this if you so choose.

(since the wall is 5 ft thick but you increase the radius in 10-ft increments, hedge maze!)

That appears to do the trick! I have added it as a Dominion adaptation but added the pre-req of either the Wall of Thorns adaptation or the Greater Spell Blossom Class ability with Wall of Thorns selected.

-Draining Dominion: A replacement for the other Vampiric carapace ability. Creatures you designate within your Dominion take 1 point of negative energy damage per round. You heal 1 hp for each hit point drained. Creatures which have taken this damage more than 10 times in the past hour become fatigued (Fort save each round negates, reduced save DC)...

Standard action is OK, maybe up the damage if you do, and cap the resulting healing.

Renamed to give it a more creepy vibe...

Parasitic Dominion (Dominion):
As a standard action, any number of living creatures you designate within your Dominion take 1d4 points of damage. You heal 1 hp for each hit point drained in this way up to your Verdure level plus your charisma modifier. Hit points gained in excess of your maximum are gained as temporary hit points. You may have no more temporary hit points from this ability than your charisma modifier and these hit points are lost first. Any remaining temporary hit points are lost at the end of the day.

What do you think of that? Is the temp hp thing too much? is it explained weirdly?

Entangle doing Grease instead: Grease is a very irritating hoser spell which requires Balance checks to deal with.

Yea I kinda knew that before I even said it...

What do you think of resinous tar? Feels more like a layer of sticky fungus vs. a thin coating of grease

I was not familiar with that spell in spite of having the book in which its printed. That sounds perfect! Since it is not a pathfinder spell I will just include the effect in the description...

"Alternative Class Feature: Fungal Expanse (Sp):
You may designate an area with a radius of 40 feet, the center of which must be within 400 ft. of your position + 40 ft. per Verdure level as the target of this ability. The designated area sprouts mushrooms and fungus of all types which secrete a sticky tar-like substance and coat the entire surface of the affected area. Movement costs across the area are doubled and any prone creature in the area must succeed on a DC 10 Strength check to stand up.

Items not in use or in a creature's possession automatically become affected. A creature holding an affected item must use a full-round action to let go of the item, drop it, put it away, pick it up from the ground, or ready it for use.

A creature wielding an affected item gains a +5 circumstance bonus on opposed checks to avoid being disarmed. A creature wearing armor or clothing affected by this spell takes a -5 penalty on Escape Artist checks and on grapple checks made to resist or escape a grapple or to escape a pin.
This ability replaces Entangle"

How's that?

2. Burster fills it pretty well, but the statistics of plants don't feel quite right. What do you think of a "save DC over attack damage" type adaptation which synergizes with burster:
Fungal Plants: When creating a Plant, you may choose to make it a fungus, emphasizing its chemical traits over its physical ones. Fungi gain 2 extra hit points per verdure level, but have an AC of only 10 + BMB. They take a -3 penalty to attack rolls, but add +2 to the save DC of any of their abilities.

I like this! Should it be a plant adaptation or an alternative class feature that replaces Plant?

3. Huh. Start from the puffball, work your way from there? Could also do a set of companion-specific adaptations (sneak attack for crawling vine, grab for carnivorous flower, <something fungusy?> for puffball, power attack for treant).

Companion Specific Adaptations - I like it conceptually. Putting a pin in this to come back to.

Continuing (I will post adaptations faster than you can add them! Muahahahah!):

I do find myself struggling to keep up! I will have to start going through the rest of these tomorrow. Thanks again!

[Kaskus]

Okay, now the adaptations...

Destructive Dominion:
At your option, you may have selected unattended manufactured objects and structures within your Dominion take 1 point of damage per level per round, bypassing hardness.

I like this idea for fungal aspected Verdures! The idea that everything in the area is deteriorating at an accelerated pace due to this effect is good. I am not very familiar with the rules for damaging large structures and couldn't find it with a cursory search so I am not sure how good this is. I seem to recall ships and wagon and buildings being tracked in 10 ft. sections? If someone could educate me more on how structural damage works in Pathfinder, I would be grateful.

Looking at damaging objects - this ability at level 5 would...
- Completely destroy a simple wooden door in 2 rounds (3 for good wooden door & 4 for strong wooden door)
- Destroy every chain in the area
- Destroy an iron door in 12 rounds
- Destroy a 1-ft thick masonry wall in 18 rounds

A level 5 fireball (average damage of 17 points) would...
- Completely destroy a simple wooden door with 2 castings (half damage from energy attack)
- Destroy every chain in the area
- Destroy an iron door with 5 castings
- Destroy a 1-ft thick masonry wall with 12 castings

Similar damage to objects. So, is a power that sets off a fireball every round balanced if the fireball doesn't harm creatures?

Flowering Blossoms: Delay Spell, but for Blossoms. Take a few extra rounds before setting them off, + to CL. Alternative name: Blossom Cultivation. Since they're all debuffs, it's probably OK compared to the possibility of buff abuse.

How about...

Late Bloomer (Blossom):
Pre-req: Improved Spell Blossom Class Feature
When creating a spell blossom, you may specify 1–5 rounds. That many rounds after the activation of the spell blossom, its spell effect is triggered.Only Spell Blossoms which replicate area, personal, and touch spells can be affected by this adaptation.

Any decisions you would make about the delayed effect, including attack rolls, designating targets, or determining or shaping an area, are decided when the spell effect is triggered. Any effects resolved by those affected by the spell, including saving throws, are decided when the delay period ends.

A delayed Spell Blossom can be dispelled normally during the delay and can be detected normally with spells or abilities that can detect spell effects.

Sculpting Dominion:
You may reshape your dominion, only to trap intruders within. You may designate any number of squares within your Dominion to be excluded from its area, as long as the remaining area remains as a contiguous area containing you.

Seems pretty straight-forward. Added to Dominion adaptation list

Greensense:
You have blindsense which detects creatures within your aura.

I had outlined an entangle ability that did this for areas of entanglement before the aura existed. That ability allowed you to sense creatures and objects as if you were located within every square of the area. I think your idea is simpler but I assume you mean blindsight rather than blindsense? If so...

Verdant Sight (Dominion):
Pre-req: Woodland Sight Class Feature
You gain blindsight which operates within the bounds of your dominion.

So simple! Do you think this is okay when combined with...

Anchor Aura:
As a free action, you can designate a location for your aura to emanate from instead of yourself. As long as you remain within your dominion, this persists. If you leave, it immediately collapses. You may recenter your aura on yourself as another free action.

This combined with Verdant Sight would allow you to remote view your dominion. I think I am okay with that. What do you think?

EDIT: Whoops! Missed that you specified that the Verdure must stay within the dominion. I think that works and synergizes fine with Verdant Sight. I added it to the Dominion adaptations list but made it a swift action to anchor and have your current location as the center but holding it there as you move. Also added Verdant Sight to the Dominion list.

P.S. I hope you don't mind that I end up renaming half of the adaptations you suggest

Also, thought: Either the difficult terrain or the thorns should be removed from the base Dominion. The two have a nonbo with each other (spend a move action? difficult terrain means the thorns don't trigger) and entangle already applies difficult terrain.

I had to read your comment and the ability several times but finally caught what meant. Good catch. I have now removed the difficult terrain portion of the ability.

Regarding Plant Base Stats:
When I added Construct traits, I did so because I could not locate the base immunities, etc. of objects. I found them finally and feel like those should be in place rather than the construct traits. What do you think of that?

[aimlessPolymath]

Many replies!

Spoiler

Show

- Changed the Corpse Seed adaptation to raise the body as a Yellow Musk Zombie. I had thought they were more powerful than standard zombies but looked again and they are basically the same. My question is... Do you think multiple YMZs should be able to be created (horde) up to a certain limit? Also, do you think they should be able to scale so they remain relevant at higher levels? Of course, if we want to go full necro, we could create adaptations for them specifically as well (or allow companion adaptations to be applied?).

I... sorta like the idea of them being uncontrolled, actually? It's just me, but I wonder if it would be cool if you couldn't control them directly, just prevent them from seeing selected targets? It would be different, at least- some lesser level of control than the normal necromancer, closer to Handle Animal than anything else.

At high levels, they're basically bodies in the way.
You could let some version of the Corpsecrafter feats apply to them if you want? Could make a decent adaptation chain.

- You had initially recommended that Friendly Entangle be incorporated into the base ability and I appear to have ignored that comment. Do you still feel that is should be so?

Somewhere at or before level 3, yes. It's too crucial to be left alone. Also, after we fill out the abilities, I think we should take a round of setting level prerequisites for abilities.

- Do you think Advance Companion should be limited to a one time pick?

It's a silly good option in comparison to the others. It would still be a auto-pick even if it were one time. Make it a feat that the character takes instead, maybe.

- Added language to Evolved Companion about multi-selecting it

Cool.

Would it be too complicated to allow a Strength check or an Escape Artist check and have them with different DCs? Skills scale faster than abilities so my thought is that giving them separate DCs will keep the overall difficulty the same while allowing strong characters to be strong and wiggly characters to be wiggly...

You could let them use CMB, which scales(for fighters) at about the same rate as a class skill. Bonus- they can both be used to escape grapples with the same rate.

That appears to do the trick! I have added it as a Dominion adaptation but added the pre-req of either the Wall of Thorns adaptation or the Greater Spell Blossom Class ability with Wall of Thorns selected.

Looks good.

Parasitic Dominion (Dominion):
As a standard action, any number of living creatures you designate within your Dominion take 1d4 points of damage. You heal 1 hp for each hit point drained in this way up to your Verdure level plus your charisma modifier. Hit points gained in excess of your maximum are gained as temporary hit points. You may have no more temporary hit points from this ability than your charisma modifier and these hit points are lost first. Any remaining temporary hit points are lost at the end of the day.

What do you think of that? Is the temp hp thing too much? is it explained weirdly?

A little weirdly phrased about the temporary hit points:

As a standard action, any number of living creatures you designate within your Dominion take 1d4 points of damage. You heal 1 hp for each hit point drained in this way up to your Verdure level plus your charisma modifier. Hit points gained in excess of your maximum are gained as temporary hit points, to a maximum of your charisma modifier. Any remaining temporary hit points are lost at the end of the day.

Should do it- rules on temporary hit points cover the rest.

I was not familiar with that spell in spite of having the book in which its printed. That sounds perfect! Since it is not a pathfinder spell I will just include the effect in the description...

"Alternative Class Feature: Fungal Expanse (Sp):
You may designate an area with a radius of 40 feet, the center of which must be within 400 ft. of your position + 40 ft. per Verdure level as the target of this ability. The designated area sprouts mushrooms and fungus of all types which secrete a sticky tar-like substance and coat the entire surface of the affected area. Movement costs across the area are doubled and any prone creature in the area must succeed on a DC 10 Strength check to stand up.

Items not in use or in a creature's possession automatically become affected. A creature holding an affected item must use a full-round action to let go of the item, drop it, put it away, pick it up from the ground, or ready it for use.

A creature wielding an affected item gains a +5 circumstance bonus on opposed checks to avoid being disarmed. A creature wearing armor or clothing affected by this spell takes a -5 penalty on Escape Artist checks and on grapple checks made to resist or escape a grapple or to escape a pin.
This ability replaces Entangle"

How's that?

Perfect. Could see a trip-based adaptation for it mirroring the Drag Down entangle adaptation.

I like this! Should it be a plant adaptation or an alternative class feature that replaces Plant?

Either way- maybe both sides have an adaptation to grant the other version?

I like this idea for fungal aspected Verdures! The idea that everything in the area is deteriorating at an accelerated pace due to this effect is good. I am not very familiar with the rules for damaging large structures and couldn't find it with a cursory search so I am not sure how good this is. I seem to recall ships and wagon and buildings being tracked in 10 ft. sections? If someone could educate me more on how structural damage works in Pathfinder, I would be grateful.

Looking at damaging objects - this ability at level 5 would...
- Completely destroy a simple wooden door in 2 rounds (3 for good wooden door & 4 for strong wooden door)
- Destroy every chain in the area
- Destroy an iron door in 12 rounds
- Destroy a 1-ft thick masonry wall in 18 rounds

A level 5 fireball (average damage of 17 points) would...
- Completely destroy a simple wooden door with 2 castings (half damage from energy attack)
- Destroy every chain in the area
- Destroy an iron door with 5 castings
- Destroy a 1-ft thick masonry wall with 12 castings

Similar damage to objects. So, is a power that sets off a fireball every round balanced if the fireball doesn't harm creatures?

I think it's fine. Little combat function, if some interesting strategic uses.

Late Bloomer (Blossom):

Looks nice.

P.S. I hope you don't mind that I end up renaming half of the adaptations you suggest

's cool.

Regarding Plant Base Stats:
When I added Construct traits, I did so because I could not locate the base immunities, etc. of objects. I found them finally and feel like those should be in place rather than the construct traits. What do you think of that?

Yeah, that makes more sense.

[Kaskus]

Many replies!
I... sorta like the idea of them being uncontrolled, actually? It's just me, but I wonder if it would be cool if you couldn't control them directly, just prevent them from seeing selected targets? It would be different, at least- some lesser level of control than the normal necromancer, closer to Handle Animal than anything else.

At high levels, they're basically bodies in the way.
You could let some version of the Corpsecrafter feats apply to them if you want? Could make a decent adaptation chain.

Qualifier: I LOVE Undead Horde Command style necromancers! Whenever I learn a new system where such is possible, that is one of the first builds i learn. Nerfing that style hurts my heart a little. Also, since the class can get command plants via Greater Spell Blossom, it then turns into an ability tax. I might be convinced about handling their control in an alternate way (convince me!) but want to avoid unneeded complication. I do also like shambling hordes and that would make them more like an environmental feature than minions, which has its own appeal. Need to think about this more.

I initially am hesitant to port the Corpsecrafter feats but its been too long since I last looked at them to have a meaningful opinion. I will add that to my homework list.

Somewhere at or before level 3, yes. It's too crucial to be left alone.

Added to base ability

Also, after we fill out the abilities, I think we should take a round of setting level prerequisites for abilities.

100% agree

It's a silly good option in comparison to the others. It would still be a auto-pick even if it were one time. Make it a feat that the character takes instead, maybe.

I think a feat is fine. I added a line to the second post, which covers plant companions stating that they are treated as animal companions for determining what feats may be selected and applied to them. That way the existing Boon Companion feat is selectable rather than writing a new / redundant feat. With that done, I have also removed Advance companion from the adaptation list.

You could let them use CMB, which scales(for fighters) at about the same rate as a class skill. Bonus- they can both be used to escape grapples with the same rate.

This seems like a much simpler solution. So, how about...

"Dominating Tendrils (Dominion):
As a swift action, you may designate a 5x5 area within your aura of dominion to be grow dominating tendrils. When unoccupied, these spaces do not appear any different than the rest of your dominion. However if occupied, tendril-like vines rise up and grasp the target, holding them in place. An affected creature may attempt to break free by attempting a CMD check with a DC equal to 10 + Your BMB + Your Charisma Modifier."

As a standard action, any number of living creatures you designate within your Dominion take 1d4 points of damage. You heal 1 hp for each hit point drained in this way up to your Verdure level plus your charisma modifier. Hit points gained in excess of your maximum are gained as temporary hit points, to a maximum of your charisma modifier. Any remaining temporary hit points are lost at the end of the day.

Edited and added to dominion adaptations

Perfect. Could see a trip-based adaptation for it mirroring the Drag Down entangle adaptation.

Added to third post below feats

Lunch break is over. I will go through the rest tonight.

[aimlessPolymath]

"Dominating Tendrils (Dominion):
As a swift action, you may designate a 5x5 area within your aura of dominion to be grow dominating tendrils. When unoccupied, these spaces do not appear any different than the rest of your dominion. However if occupied, tendril-like vines rise up and grasp the target, holding them in place. An affected creature may attempt to break free by attempting a CMD check with a DC equal to 10 + Your BMB + Your Charisma Modifier."

Whoops, not sure I was clear. "CMD check or Escape Artist check with a DC..." covers it fine.

[Kaskus]

Destructive Domain and Dominating Tendrils both updated and added to dominion adaptations list.

I also replaced construct traits with object traits in the Plant Statistics section. If you wouldn't mind double checking that to make sure I didn't miss anything?

Fungal Plants added to plant adaptations list and also added to the alternative class features list

[aimlessPolymath]

Well, they're technically missing the ability to make Fortitude saves which might apply (such as vs. disintegration) or Will saves in certain situations. Unattended objects always fail saves.

Needs immunity to death from massive damage, or HP become irrelevant at high level.

Also, just saw they're missing Hardness. Wood has hardness 5, or Charisma mod if you want it to scale with level.

That's all the problems I see.


Also, if you're working on a Google Doc, I'd love to contribute to the class you're working on.

[Kaskus]

Added Hardness equal to Cha Mod

Added Immunity to death by massive damage and combined immunities into one "Plant / Object Traits" list


Regarding Saves. What do you think of these two approaches...

1. Treat them as attended / wielded by the Verdure (And thus using the Verdure's saves)

2. Treat them as magic items (Saves equal to 2 + Half Verdure Level)

[aimlessPolymath]

I think treating them as attended makes the most sense, particularly since because they're animated and controlled by the verdure- thus, their reflexes are based on the verdure's, and ditto for Will. Fortitude is a bit more of a stretch, but not that much of one, and the consistency makes sense.
Also, it gives a way for the Verdure to pump up their plant's saves if needed.

[Kaskus]

Verdure Saves it is. I have modified that section of the Plant base statistics section.

Edit: Also added Late Bloomer & Hive Blossom to the list of blossom adaptations. I want to make an expanded Spell Blossom adaptation as well that lets you pick more spells from the existing selection to add to your "known" list but am unsure of quantity. Hive blossom adds 7 if you include the 2 Greater Spell Blossom options, which is more than the base ability which grants 5 to start. I don't have a problem with that but that means...
- A. The basic Expanded Spell Blossom adaptation must provide at least as large of an addition
- B. The Hive Blossom needs a pre-req (Either the generic Expand adaptation noted above or perhaps a hive related adaptation such as the existin hive companion adaptation or a new plant form adaptation?)
- C. The Hive Blossom adaptation needs to be nerfed
- D. The Hive Adaptation needs to be split into 2 adaptions (Greater Hive Blossom?)

What are your thoughts on any and all of the above?

I feel like so much progress has been made and now is mostly nitpick time (Which is good - details are important.) In light of that, here are the things I believe are still needed...

1. Pinnacle Adaptations. I would like to have a pinnacle adaptation for each category. With that design goal in mind, here are the categories still in need:
- Bear Fruit
- Companion
- Dominion
- Spell Blossom (Actually, I need to get this category filled out in general - I will work on that, I know you already made some suggestions)

2. Spell Blossom Adaptations (see comment above)

3. Corpse Seed. I feel like it needs to be a little more defined (can you have more than one YMZ? How many? Etc.)

4. Bear Fruit Adaptations. Still a lot of design space here I think. Using Paladin Mercies as inspiration for condition removal effects was one suggestion but I haven't yet gone back to look at that properly. This is where i feel the Buffs should go (like Fortified Fruit). I don't want to get crazy so that there is a mirror for every spell i nthe game or anything but a little more could be done here. Southern Cross had suggested more and/or better healing options so that may be something to look at as well.

5. Swallower Plant Form. This got cut and rearranged into the current carnivore form and I was originally going to make an upgrade for it that gave it Swallow Whole.

6. Voltron? So I had an idea (not well thought out at all mind you) that there might be a pinnacle plant adaptation that let you combine your plants into one big super plant (Power Rangers also applicable if you prefer that over Voltron).


What else am I missing?

[aimlessPolymath]

Edit: Also added Late Bloomer & Hive Blossom to the list of blossom adaptations. I want to make an expanded Spell Blossom adaptation as well that lets you pick more spells from the existing selection to add to your "known" list but am unsure of quantity. Hive blossom adds 7 if you include the 2 Greater Spell Blossom options, which is more than the base ability which grants 5 to start. I don't have a problem with that but that means...
- A. The basic Expanded Spell Blossom adaptation must provide at least as large of an addition
- B. The Hive Blossom needs a pre-req (Either the generic Expand adaptation noted above or perhaps a hive related adaptation such as the existin hive companion adaptation or a new plant form adaptation?)
- C. The Hive Blossom adaptation needs to be nerfed
- D. The Hive Adaptation needs to be split into 2 adaptions (Greater Hive Blossom?)

What about "Add the following spells to the list of spells you can pick from Spell Blossom. Learn 3 new spells for Spell Blossom" as a generic format for adding spells to Spell Blossom, and then "Learn 5 new spells for Spell Blossom" is the generic Extend?

1. Pinnacle Adaptations.

Yeah... I'll think about these.

2. Spell Blossom Adaptations

I'll try to come up with some. I've been busy on another project recently, so the creative juices haven't been flowing as well.

3. Corpse Seed.

Eh... I don't want it to be too transformative an effect just by taking one adaptation, not without some investment. 1 controlled at a time when you take the adaptation, up to 3 + a buff to them when you take an advanced version?

5. Swallower Plant Form.

Swallow Whole has some cruft associated with it- hit points and AC of the stomach, DCs to escape. We have a basis to work with for that now, so it shouldn't be too hard.

4. Bear Fruit Adaptations.

Will think about this as well.

6. Voltron?

I think I had an idea for this in one of my previous posts, sort of. An improved version of it which lets you stack all of them onto one person would work OK, you'd just need to limit the single-target DPS a bit (perhaps you can only attack any creature up to twice with the plant riders, much like the hecatoncheries). A size-up for having enough of them stacked would make sense, too.

[Kaskus]

What about "Add the following spells to the list of spells you can pick from Spell Blossom. Learn 3 new spells for Spell Blossom" as a generic format for adding spells to Spell Blossom, and then "Learn 5 new spells for Spell Blossom" is the generic Extend?

Expanded Spell Blossom (Blossom):
Pre-req: Improved Spell Blossom Class Feature
Select 5 spells from the Improved Spell Blossom list that you do not already know and add them to the list of spells with which you can use Improved Spell Blossom.
Special: If you possess the Greater Spell Blossom Class Feature, you may use this feat to add spells from that abilities list to your list of spells with which you can use that ability. This feat may be taken multiple times.

&

Hive Blossom (Blossom):
Pre-req: Improved Spell Blossom Class Feature
Add the following spells to those usable with Improved Spell Blossom: Summon Nature's Ally 3 (vermin only), Summon Swarm (spiders only), Control Vermin, Insect scouts, and Repel Vermin.
Add the following spells to those usable with Greater Spell Blossom: Giant vermin and Cape of Wasps
Select 3 of the spells added by this ability to the list of spells usable with your Improved or Greater Spell Blossom ability.
Special: Any unchosen spells from this ability may be added to the selectable lists for their respective lists and learned with the Expanded Spell Blossom adaptation.

Eh... I don't want it to be too transformative an effect just by taking one adaptation, not without some investment. 1 controlled at a time when you take the adaptation, up to 3 + a buff to them when you take an advanced version?

Base adaptation = 1 Base YMZ (2 HD) allowed
Upgrade adaptation = Up to 3 + Cha Mod in HD (1 big or multiple smaller ones?).

What do you think of that?

Swallow Whole has some cruft associated with it- hit points and AC of the stomach, DCs to escape. We have a basis to work with for that now, so it shouldn't be too hard.

Here goes...

Swallower (Plant Form):
Pre-req: Carnivorous Plant Form adaptation
You may create a Swallower with your Plant ability. Treat a Swallower as a Carnivore but with the following ability:
Swallow Whole: If a Swallower begins its turn with an opponent of the same size or smaller than the Swallower grappled, it can attempt a new combat maneuver check (as though attempting to pin the opponent). If it succeeds, it swallows its prey and the opponent takes bite damage. Each round thereafter, the swallowed creature takes acid damage equal to the Swallower's Bite Damage. A swallowed creature keeps the grappled condition, while the Swallower does not. A swallowed creature can try to cut its way free with any light slashing or piercing weapon (the amount of cutting damage required to get free is equal to 1/10 the Swallower’s total hit points), or it can just try to escape the grapple. The Armor Class of the interior of a Swallower is 10 + 1/2 its natural armor bonus, with no modifiers for size or Dexterity. If a swallowed creature cuts its way out, the Swallower cannot attempt to use its Swallow Whole ability again until the damage is healed. If the swallowed creature escapes the grapple, success puts it back in the Swallower’s mouth, where it may be bitten or swallowed again.

I think I had an idea for this in one of my previous posts, sort of. An improved version of it which lets you stack all of them onto one person would work OK, you'd just need to limit the single-target DPS a bit (perhaps you can only attack any creature up to twice with the plant riders, much like the hecatoncheries). A size-up for having enough of them stacked would make sense, too.

I initially thought that it was covered by the Plant Bearer adaptation, which lets you summon a plant onto the back of your companion. This is dependent on having a companion though so I thought that if someone wanted to summon 1 plant instead of many, a combine adaptation of some sort would support that. Perhaps a plant form that can count as 2+ plants but has better stats/abilities...

Legion (Plant Form):
You may forgo summoning multiple plants to instead summon a stronger plant. A Legion Plant's statistics vary based on how many plants it is counted as.
2 Plants: large size, +2 to hit, double hp & hardness increase to 10?
3 Plants: As above plus 2 attacks at full bonus?
4 Plants: As above plus another triple hp, huge size & mobile?
5 Plants: As above plus third attack, hardness 15 & regen?

[aimlessPolymath]

Oh, wow, I actually forgot you did Plant bearer.

I like the Legion form. Checking the value of the tiers:
-2 plants: Large size is good for Combat Reflexes, but not much else- you lose out on a bunch of damage. Increase plant damage 1 die size at this stage. Hit points are important, since this is an instant target.
-3 plants: 2 attacks makes sense, you're getting around 2/3 the attack count for your plants.
-4: Yeah, movement is something you get at this point. Not a lot, necessarily, just enough for it to be able to hit people just out of its range. Reach is nice, too. That said, this isn't a huge quantitative upgrade, more tactical.
-5: 3 attacks are a good number to finish with. Given that you can resummon it instantly, though, the ability to regenerate isn't that valuable, though. Needs something a little more punchy, especially since this is gained at level 20. What about attacking twice with Whirlwind Attack within its reach? Damage output isn't actually that overbearing (1d8 per level avg is less than empowered fireball), but it's so fun!

If you combine it with Plant Bearer, it's a super fun plant behemoth which charges into enemy lines on the back of your companion, then mercilessly shreds everything in reach (not really b/c not enough damage).

Base adaptation = 1 Base YMZ (2 HD) allowed
Upgrade adaptation = Up to 3 + Cha Mod in HD (1 big or multiple smaller ones?).

Standard format for controlled creatures is you get some number of HD per level, or a specific number. I'd set it to 1 HD/level early, then 3 HD/level with the upgrade, maybe.

[Kaskus]

How about...

Legion (Plant Form):
You may forgo summoning multiple plants to instead summon a stronger plant. A Legion Plant's statistics vary based on how many plants it is counted as.
2 Plants: Large size, +2 to hit, Upgrade Damage Dice to d8, double hp
3 Plants: As above plus 2 attacks at full bonus, additional +1 to hit & Hardness increase to 10
4 Plants: As above plus triple hp, Upgrade Damage Dice to d10, huge size & Movement 20
5 Plants: As above plus third attack, forgo 3 regular attacks for double whirlwind attack, hardness 15 & Something Cool (See Below)

for 5 Form, what do you think of Entrap? http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rul...ntrap_Ex_or_Su

And / Or Trample? http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rul...es/#Trample_Ex

Just for Fun / Inspiration: http://i62.servimg.com/u/f62/15/02/70/29/druid_10.jpg
---

Regarding Corpse Seed: The spell ANimate Dead allows up to 4HD per caster level. BMB is the Verdure's "stand in" for caster level so what do you think about having it be 4 x BMB (which is 3 x Verdure level) HD limit but also limited to just 1 of them. So they never have more than 1 of them but they can make stronger and stronger ones as they level so the YMZ stays relevent? Perhaps just put in that the YMZ has HD of Level x 3 or if you want to put in some pseudo-fluff, it can grow by 1 HD each day until it reaches a maximum of Level x 3?

I think I still dont like the above. Maybe its because I need to sleep but I am liking the idea of having more of them and not caring if their individual power becomes non-relevant at upper levels. if I were to change the wording on plant-bearer such that it is not just your companion but any plant creature under your control onto which you can summon a plant, it would make YMZs valid targets for that adaptation and they can then be used as stiff shambling platforms for the plants. What do you think of that idea?

[aimlessPolymath]

Legion form:
Looks good. Double whirlwind attack seems fine for a "capstone" to me, could also grab trample if you like.

I like the picture!


I think either limit it based on HD or number, not both. I'm currently leaning towards number, actually. It occurs to me that a savvy player might flood the field with 2-HD zombies, giving them time to set up their Entangle, Plants and Dominion.

Changing the wording of Plant Bearer sounds fine, either way.


Also, Entangle adaptation: Make the Entangle give cover against attacks from above- sorta need some way to deal with flying archers/dragons, or at least give protective support.

Also also: I think we should move Entangled Reach into Dominion adaptations- it fits much better with active control of plants, and it otherwise is dueling for design space with Overgrowth. Anti-Flight for Entangle can then be covered by the adaptation I just came up with.

[Kaskus]

Legion form:
Looks good. Double whirlwind attack seems fine for a "capstone" to me, could also grab trample if you like.

I like the picture!

I think both! at Level 20, you should go big. I am usually more worried about making things overpowered rather than under but i think its okay to push a little at level 20.

Legion has been added to the list of Plant Adaptations.

I think either limit it based on HD or number, not both. I'm currently leaning towards number, actually. It occurs to me that a savvy player might flood the field with 2-HD zombies, giving them time to set up their Entangle, Plants and Dominion.

I thought about this more over the weekend and I am all about quantity. Even if all they do is waste enemy actions to get rid of them or block enemy movements by being in the way, I think that is great!

I have edited the Corpse Seed Adaptation accordingly.

Changing the wording of Plant Bearer sounds fine, either way.

I am leaving as is for now

Also, Entangle adaptation: Make the Entangle give cover against attacks from above- sorta need some way to deal with flying archers/dragons, or at least give protective support.

I have had this thought multiple times. I feel like cover in general is something that needs more support. That would give the Wilderness sight abilities more relevance. I think however that such an ability would fit better with Dominion since the Verdure will always be within their Dominion but may or may not be within a given area of entanglement.

The Flip side of that is that a Verdure with a companion instead of an aura does not have access to Domain adaptations so would not get this. Since the Woodland Sight abilities are baked in, I feel the cover ability should be tied to a feature that is also baked, of which Entangle makes the most sense.

Typing as I think: I think I just convinced myself that you are right about this belonging with Entangle. So, what about...

Entangled Canopy (Entangle):
You cause trees and bushes within the area affected by your Entangle ability to grow and close in. Creatures within the area affected by your Entangle ability are considered to have concealment against any other creature 10 or more feet away. You may expend an additional use of your Entangle ability to make it total concealment instead. This does not impede movement beyond the normal effects of your Entangle ability.

This would allow them to gain concealment versus flyers as well as lateral enemies and give them something on which to spend uses of Entangle. What do you think?

Also also: I think we should move Entangled Reach into Dominion adaptations- it fits much better with active control of plants, and it otherwise is dueling for design space with Overgrowth. Anti-Flight for Entangle can then be covered by the adaptation I just came up with.

This is the part I am not sure I agree with. Since the ability pulls enemies into an area of Entanglement, it seems it should go with Entangle adaptations. Perhaps you could give me an example of how you see the Dominion version working?

[aimlessPolymath]

This would allow them to gain concealment versus flyers as well as lateral enemies and give them something on which to spend uses of Entangle. What do you think?

I'm a little against the "spend uses of Entangle" part- while an outlet for extra uses does sound good, I suspct that without other options to spend them on, it will become "automatic" to spend the uses. I suspect that going down the route of letting them spend more for more just pumps up the Verdure's power in the short term, while reducing their sustainability- something which I'm personally against as a design decision.

This is the part I am not sure I agree with. Since the ability pulls enemies into an area of Entanglement, it seems it should go with Entangle adaptations. Perhaps you could give me an example of how you see the Dominion version working?

Alright. It pulls into Dominion, slightly tweaked to take actions to use rather than being automatic (I realized you might get a multiperson pileup, or pull people repeatedly between different zones, which seemed silly):

Grasping Vines:
As a move action, choose an unoccupied square within your Dominion. Lashing vines erupt from it, pulling a chosen creature within 10 feet into it. You must make a touch attack roll to hit with the vines, followed by a CMB check against the target to pull them. If you succeed, the target is immediately pulled into the chosen square.

It has utility even within your Dominion as well- yank someone towards one of your Plants, or away from their group, or through the Safe Space hedge left around, or into your Dominating Tendrils, or whatever. Still works on flyers or those outside the area, so its original use is left intact.

Part of the issue I had with it in Entangle are that a) it seems to imply actively directing active plants, which is something we've been moving into Dominion, and b) the behavior of "someone thinks they're safe outside the entangle zone- hah no they aren't" is pretty much covered by Overgrowth creating more entangle over your chosen target.

[Kaskus]

I'm a little against the "spend uses of Entangle" part- while an outlet for extra uses does sound good, I suspct that without other options to spend them on, it will become "automatic" to spend the uses. I suspect that going down the route of letting them spend more for more just pumps up the Verdure's power in the short term, while reducing their sustainability- something which I'm personally against as a design decision.


Alright. It pulls into Dominion, slightly tweaked to take actions to use rather than being automatic (I realized you might get a multiperson pileup, or pull people repeatedly between different zones, which seemed silly):



It has utility even within your Dominion as well- yank someone towards one of your Plants, or away from their group, or through the Safe Space hedge left around, or into your Dominating Tendrils, or whatever. Still works on flyers or those outside the area, so its original use is left intact.

Part of the issue I had with it in Entangle are that a) it seems to imply actively directing active plants, which is something we've been moving into Dominion, and b) the behavior of "someone thinks they're safe outside the entangle zone- hah no they aren't" is pretty much covered by Overgrowth creating more entangle over your chosen target.

Whenever I see any ability posited, I try to imagine myself using it in a game and designating a specific space that they are pull into is something I can definitely see using and like a lot. That is way better than just pulling in from the edge.

I added Grasping Vines to the Dominion Adaptations list - I didn't even rename it

I removed Entangled Reach.

For Entangled Canopy, do you think the total concealment aspect should be removed? Perhaps put an action cost to it instead? Maybe a standard action to activate concealment and then another standard action to upgrade it to total concealment?

[aimlessPolymath]

I would say that allowing total concealment steps on rogue's toes a bit. Not a lot, technically (Stealth makes creatures "not aware" of you in addition to giving total concealment, thus allowing sneak attack more explicitly), but a bit. If you want to keep it, make it take 20 ft of distance (matching the general pattern for fog and similar effects) for total concealment, but make it automatic or decided when you create the field, matching our general pattern of not interacting much directly with Entangle after it's thrown down.

[Kaskus]

I am not married to the total concealment idea and am fine with leaving it out. Hedge Maze still gives the Verdure something with which to use their Greater Wild Sight ability.

I have added Entangled Canopy to the Entangle Adaptations list.

Also, Swallower added to Plant Forms

Expanded Spell Blossom added to Blossom Adaptations list

Some New Adaptation Ideas:

1. Assimilate (Companion):
As a full-round action, your companion can consume undergrowth or bushy plant matter it’s currently touching and incorporate that material into its form. It can do this at a rate of 5 cubic feet per round, healing 1d8 points of damage each time. If the companion is at maximum hit points, this ability has no effect.

2. Sprout (Companion, Pinnacle?):
Your companion sheds, small pieces of itself (could also be seeds) which quickly grow into sprouts
{Insert Sprout Stats Here} *** This ability was inspired by Cell from Dragon Ball Z

3. Breath Weapon (Companion, Pinnacle?):
Your companion breaths forth a cone of hallucinagenic spores. Save or become Confused?
*** Should be a major condition since its a pinnacle adaptation.

4. Life Link (Companion):
Your companion takes 1/2 your damage and vice versa. Healing one of you affects both.

[aimlessPolymath]

I would give a definite yes to Life Link (you can take some wording from shield other), a tentative yes on Assimilate (It's a bit of an odd name), would like to discuss Sprout, and don't like Breath Weapon on the grounds that plants don't have lungs.

Life Link: Seems like it should be an optional power. "Whenever you or your companion take damage or are healed, you may choose to redirect up to half the damage or healing to the other".

Assimilate is a nice healing power, but mixes being somewhat limited (not a lot, given your class features) with being somewhat confusing- not all plants are carnivorous, or have mouths. What about "Graft: As a full-round action, your companion can graft a piece of adjacent plant life onto itself. This heals it of 1d6 hit points, and grants it one of the following effects:
-Vine: The companion gains a +2 bonus to climb checks.
-Flower: The companion gains a +2 bonus to charisma checks.
-Tree or tree branch: The companion gains a +1 bonus to natural armor.
&etc.
The companion can only have one ability from this class feature at once. Whenever it grafts a new piece of plant matter, it loses the previous ability it possessed."
You could make a nice tie-in with Greenguard plant genus in there, too.

Sprout could be a pretty good ability, I'm just not entirely sure how it will work. A quick google gave me a few options for the kind of creature which pops out. Alternatively, you could have it call up 1- or 2- or whatever-HD versions of the companion, which might be much more appropriate.

Breath Weapon doesn't feel like it fits the class very well- it focuses on crowd control via debuffs rather than battlefield control via summonings and area effects. The class has relatively little of the former, but a whole lot of the latter. Plus, no lungs.

[Kaskus]

I would give a definite yes to Life Link (you can take some wording from shield other), a tentative yes on Assimilate (It's a bit of an odd name), would like to discuss Sprout, and don't like Breath Weapon on the grounds that plants don't have lungs.

Life Link: Seems like it should be an optional power. "Whenever you or your companion take damage or are healed, you may choose to redirect up to half the damage or healing to the other".

Optional = Good

Life Link (Companion):
As long as her companion is within level x 5 feet of the Verdure, she may choose to evenly split damage from any wounds and attacks directed at herself or her companion (including those dealt by special abilities) that deal hit point damage between them. The Verdure may make this choice each time damage would be dealt to her or her companion. Forms of harm that do not involve hit points, such as charm effects, temporary ability damage, level draining, and death effects, are not affected. If either the Verdure or her companion suffer a reduction of hit points from a lowered Constitution score, the reduction may not be split because it is not hit point damage. Similarly, the Verdure may choose to evenly split any hit points healed by an effect or ability targeting herself or her companion.

Assimilate is a nice healing power, but mixes being somewhat limited (not a lot, given your class features) with being somewhat confusing- not all plants are carnivorous, or have mouths. What about "Graft: As a full-round action, your companion can graft a piece of adjacent plant life onto itself. This heals it of 1d6 hit points, and grants it one of the following effects:
-Vine: The companion gains a +2 bonus to climb checks.
-Flower: The companion gains a +2 bonus to charisma checks.
-Tree or tree branch: The companion gains a +1 bonus to natural armor.
&etc.
The companion can only have one ability from this class feature at once. Whenever it grafts a new piece of plant matter, it loses the previous ability it possessed."
You could make a nice tie-in with Greenguard plant genus in there, too.

I don't think a mouth is needed to consume something, they could absorb it. I actually completely stole the Assimilate power from the Living Topiary, including the name: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/mon...iving-topiary/

With that said, I think I still like the name but i also like the idea of tying it in with the Genus/Species concept from the Greenguard. Also, I don't think the healing about needs to be nerfed due to the bonus...

Assimilate (Companion):
As a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity, your companion can absorb undergrowth or bushy plant matter it’s currently touching and incorporate that material into its form. It can do this at a rate of 5 cubic feet per round, healing 1d8 points of damage each time. If the companion is at maximum hit points, this ability has no effect. Additionally, your companion gains a small bonus based on the type of plant material incorporated:
Vines: +2 Bonus to Climb Checks
Flowers:+2 Bonus to Charisma Checks
Trees & Woody Plants: +1 Natural Armor Bonus
Fungi: +2 to Fortitude Saves
Succulents: Fire Resistance 5
*Other effects, depending on the plants incorporated, might be possible at GM discretion
The companion may have only 1 bonus from this ability at a time. Any previous bonuses end when the companion uses this ability again or the next day, whichever comes first.

What do you think of that?

Sprout could be a pretty good ability, I'm just not entirely sure how it will work. A quick google gave me a few options for the kind of creature which pops out. Alternatively, you could have it call up 1- or 2- or whatever-HD versions of the companion, which might be much more appropriate.

I really like the leshy since there are multiple types that you could use to keep in theme with the companion (Flytrap for Carnivorous Flower, Gourd for Crawling Vine, Fungus for Puffball and Leaf for Sapling Treant). Since they also have varied HD, you could give a HD limit and that would let the player customize quality/quantity.

What do you think about Level + Cha Mod HD worth of Leshy for a Pinnacle adaptation? Such as...

Sprout (Companion, Pinnacle):
Once per day, as a full round action that provokes attacks of opportunity, your companion may sprout lesser minions. This can take the form of buds that are shed from the companions body, seeds that quickly germinate or some other mechanism appropriate for a plant. The sprouts do not act in the round during which they are created and take the form of Leshys. You may have your companion sprout leshys with total hit dice of no more than your Verdure level + your Charisma modifier. You may select the quantity and type(s) of leshys produced so long as their total HD do not exceed this limit. Leshys created with this ability last for 1 minute per Verdure level, after which time they wilt into piles of dead plant matter.

Questions:
1. How do you feel about how often it being once per day?
2. Should the sprouts be able to act immediately?
3. How do you feel about the duration?

Breath Weapon doesn't feel like it fits the class very well- it focuses on crowd control via debuffs rather than battlefield control via summonings and area effects. The class has relatively little of the former, but a whole lot of the latter. Plus, no lungs.

I am on board for your thinking. This was my least favorite of the bunch. Nixing it.

[aimlessPolymath]

In no order:

Life Link looks fine to me. I think you could cut the wording a little:

Life Link (Companion):
As long as her companion is within level x 5 60 feet of the Verdure, she may choose to evenly split hit point damage from any wounds and attacks directed atreceived by her companion or herself (including that dealt by special abilities) that deal hit point damage between them. The Verdure may make this choice each time damage would be dealt to her or her companion. Forms of harm that do not involve hit points, such as charm effects, temporary ability damage, level draining, and death effects, are not affected. If either the Verdure or her companion suffer a reduction of hit points from a lowered Constitution score, the reduction may not be split because it is not hit point damage. Similarly, the Verdure may choose to evenly split any hit points healed by an effect or ability targeting herself or her companion.

Assimilate

Looks fine- the use of the word "consume" threw me off.

1. How do you feel about how often it being once per day?
2. Should the sprouts be able to act immediately?
3. How do you feel about the duration?

Able to act immediately: Eh. You're sacrificing your companion's actions for the round.
Duration: This reads like "one fight" to me.
Uses per day: Same. Need to decide- are X leshy a useful tool in one fight?

After thinking a bit about it, I actually don't really like the leshy as a summon- there's too much variance between the types offensively, they don't have much in the way of coherent abilities, and they don't have much in the way of good offensive options for 20th level. I'm also not sure that it really makes sense for the companion itself- having a companion means that you're essentially micromanaging a single, particular plant over the course of your career. Suddenly, the focus is shifted from the plant to a horde of creatures which it summons! It feels a little off to me. One thing we could also borrow from here, though, is the summoner- specifically, the 16th level class feature, merge forms. It feels like a spiritual mirror to our other Merge pinnacle ability (note to self- pick one from Spontaneous Stride and Merge to turn into Dominion pinnacle), too- your animal companion as power armor. (also, it would combine in a fun and cool way with the Legion + Plant Bearer combo).


The other thing that occurs to me about this is that it's actually the... third? type of minion that the verdure is throwing around, not counting the companion or the plants! There's the wooden phalanx, and the zombies, and now this. It might be a bit redundant at this point to add more, or maybe they should run on the same pool in some fashion, or we should make some kind of decision to eliminate or combine some.

If you do want to use the Leshy, I'd suggest actually looking at the specific leshy and examining how many of them are equivalent to each other; I think that this is a case where HD don't tell the full story about power levels. Fungus Leshy are a powerful tool, if anyone ever fails the Fortitude save. Flytrap leshy are the tankiest, and have an amalgam ability that means that they are pretty damn hard to take down (seriously, they can just re-fuse, and each takes an average of a bit over 1/6 its hit points in damage- you can do even better by creating one with an assload of hit points, and giving it more attacks at a surcharge of 5 HD each). Gourd Leshy can entangle people, but that's a bit redundant given the class; however, they have a little bit of Sneak Attack. Leaf leshy are just sad. So sad.

CR equivalence:
CR 4 = 1 Flytrap Leshy = 2 Fungus leshy = 3 Gourd Leshy = 8 Leaf leshy.
If we imagine CR 11 is summoned, we multiply these numbers by about 12-ish (x2 = +2, x2 = +2, x3 = +3, total +7 or so -the numbers break down at this point, really. CR 10 is x8, on the other hand- numbers get big fast. ).
12 Flytrap Leshy can combine into one super-plant with around 23 hit dice. Medium BAB means that their attack goes to be about 7 points higher, and they go up two size categores, to Large. which gives +12 strength but -2 attack. This is pretty accurate- the full attack has decent odds of hitting multiple times. On the other hand, they deal only a medium amount of damage per hit, and it's all nonmagic. On the other, other hand, it's attacking 12 times with its bite. It's a glass cannon- it has the damage output of a hydra, and more hit points (but less regeneration). Even split, it's still an assload of hit points. A good option. Even if it's only 8, it's still pretty good, really- especially since it's almost impossible to spread damage over them effectively, and they outsurvive fireball. At a HD limit, 3-5 of them is still suprisingly irritating, since their hitpoints are over the "one-hit kill" threshold for most people. Best option by far.
24 Fungus Leshy are all throwing their puffballs and charging into melee. Once they get hit in melee, there's a 5% chance of the spores hitting their killer in melee- better odds than when they attack. More likely to die from fireballs, to be honest. No other useful function. In a HD limit, you get 10-15 of them, which is less likely to apply the effect, and is pretty much death fodder.
Gourd: You get between 36 and 20 of them, depending on HD limit or not. It makes little difference. Their one ability (ensnare) is redundant because you're a Verdure. Sneak attack would be good if they had more than a -1 bonus to the melee attack roll.
Leaf: So sad. Will die in droves (between 96 and 20 of them- it doesn't really matter either way). Fireball kills them on a successful save- from maximum hit points to -12 in one spell. Most useful function is taking up space.

Note: I found the leshy subtype. It turns out that even setting it based on HD makes them a bitch to kill except in area attacks. Here's why: Verdant Burst. They're actually surprisingly good support for your companion, since their constant stream of dying will keep it topped up. That's pretty much their main function for all of them but the flytrap leshy.

[Kaskus]

What if we make it super simple and the companion just clones itself?

EDIT:

Twin Companion (Companion, Pinnacle):
Your Companion splits and create a perfect clone of itself. You now have 2 companions.

[aimlessPolymath]

Yeah, that's a whole lot simpler, is a lot easier to work with, and mirrors the Summoner in an appropriate manner.