Greatest Star Wars Villian(s) (Legends/ New Canon Separate) No Sidious Allowed!

[Dienekes]

Having just watched this clip, they do pretty magnificent things with Thrawn too...!

I've never been a huge fan of Rebels (given that I really couldn't get past them forcing in not just one but two basically-Jedi-in-all-but-name), but... I have to tip my hat to them, they do have some moments!

Eh. To each their own I suppose. I am supremely disappointed with the Rebel's Thrawn. In that episode alone he had beat the rebels completely 3 times. And instead of finishing them like true Thrawn he just lets them go. Like an idiot.

[hamishspence]

He wants the whole Rebel Fleet, not just Spectre Cell.

[Dienekes]

He wants the whole Rebel Fleet, not just Spectre Cell.

He had the entire resistance leadership on Ryloth pinned in a corner and instead of killing them made a deal.

He then again had the entire Ryloth leadership in front of him. Ordered some flunky to kill them and when the flunky failed and he had them in his sights he just lets them go "Because they earned their victory."

He's an idiot. He was going to kill them but then decided not to because... the writers didn't want them to die. That's the only real reason that makes sense. Because it sure doesn't that Thrawn just lets them go.

[Aotrs Commander]

Eh. To each their own I suppose. I am supremely disappointed with the Rebel's Thrawn. In that episode alone he had beat the rebels completely 3 times. And instead of finishing them like true Thrawn he just lets them go. Like an idiot.

I can only base my opinion on watching the clips, since they happened to be linked from the aforementioned Vader ones. From what I've seen there, at the very least, he's entirely in character.

Given the way Rebels rather dismissively treat the Imperials at the best of times (as basically An Hilarious Joke), there was really no way they would ever actually let, him, y'know, WIN or anything. Not having watched the whole series, I can't make any further comments on his grand plans.

But he exists in new canon and his characterisation is spot-on.

Frankly, that is the best I can expect out of Rebels really. And is a frack-ton more than I was thinking, so...

(And why I said "moments" and not "episodes...")

Hell, Thrawn EXISTING is the first real point in the entire nuCanon I am prepared to say "good job" on. (Yes, including TFA, I've not even been to see Rogue One, that's how bothered I am by it...)

He's an idiot. He was going to kill them but then decided not to because... the writers didn't want them to die. That's the only real reason that makes sense. Because it sure doesn't that Thrawn just lets them go.

That bit (which I have seen) sounded all very much like a series-writer-Plot Armour bollocks, yes. I can only postulate that Thrawn, having observed Spectre cell, is it? is working on a basis of devil-you-know, on the basis that as he now knows how this particular cell operates, he can accurately predict how they will conduct the next operation (when he can round them up, I dunno), as opposed to killing them and another cell using different tactics where he might not be able to net them all or something.

I freely admit that's streching it, but, as I say, Rebels only has its moments.

[hamishspence]

Hell, Thrawn EXISTING is the first real point in the entire nuCanon I am prepared to say "good job" on. (Yes, including TFA, I've not even been to see Rogue One, that's how bothered I am by it...)

Most comments I've seen from EU fans that watched Rogue One - seemed to be that it was very EU-ish in a good way - capturing the feel of the EU at its best rather than its worst.

[lt_murgen]

That bit (which I have seen) sounded all very much like a series-writer-Plot Armour bollocks, yes. I can only postulate that Thrawn, having observed Spectre cell, is it? is working on a basis of devil-you-know, on the basis that as he now knows how this particular cell operates, he can accurately predict how they will conduct the next operation (when he can round them up, I dunno), as opposed to killing them and another cell using different tactics where he might not be able to net them all or something.

I freely admit that's streching it, but, as I say, Rebels only has its moments.

Over the entire arc of the series, it is pretty clear what Thrawn is doing. And it makes all of his actions make sense. First, he has to separate the competent from the incompetent within the local imperial ranks. Thus, he gives them a chance to show how inept they are. Second, he has to determine how this rebel cell fits in with all the other cells. Thus, the Ryloth episode- it was a family issue and not connected to the larger rebellion. Lastly, he has to determine how the rebels are getting resources and personnel. His biggest find was determining their is a psy in their ranks.

Rebels has shown that Imperials who are interested only in their own promotion and power are easy to defeat. The true enemies- Vader, the Inquisitors, and Thrawn, are more deadly because they are as devoted to their cause as the rebels are to the rebellion.

[khadgar567]

whole pre luke jedi council they basicly doom them selfs and created god damn self fulfilling prophecy about luke and his recreation of whole f ing order plus simple rule change will kill the whole setting but they scared sh*tless from changing tradition to suit the current age

[lt_murgen]

whole pre luke jedi council they basicly doom them selfs and created god damn self fulfilling prophecy about luke and his recreation of whole f ing order plus simple rule change will kill the whole setting but they scared sh*tless from changing tradition to suit the current age

One more time, in english, please.

[khadgar567]

One more time, in english, please.

jedi council is the biggest villain in star wars universe.

[Nerd-o-rama]

They had several fatal flaws as an institution that allowed a skilled manipulator to play them like a fiddle.

If you go by Legends continuity, this happened like six times.

Basically they're just fond of lightsabering off their own noses to spite their various faces.

[Dienekes]

They had several fatal flaws as an institution that allowed a skilled manipulator to play them like a fiddle.

If you go by Legends continuity, this happened like six times.

Basically they're just fond of lightsabering off their own noses to spite their various faces.

To be fair, this happened 6 times over the course of 25,000 years. As far as institutions go, they're pretty solid.

[lt_murgen]

To be fair, this happened 6 times over the course of 25,000 years. As far as institutions go, they're pretty solid.

That's true.

Also, it isn't like they had one solid set of rules that lasted 25,000 years. In legends, they had time when marriage was permitted (Jolee Bindo and wife), children were permitted (ki-Adi-Mundi), families of jedi and non-jedi stayed together (the Sunriders). There were times when they were independent from the Republic Senate, and times when they literally ran it.

What you see in the movies and new canon is a particular organization of the Jedi Order which had a few exploitable faults. IMHO, only one of them was both self-inflicted and fatal- separating Jedi from their families. And even that wouldn't have been an issue if they had a better PR department.

[Dr.Samurai]

I have not read much of the EU, but in my humble opinion...

The big two that jump to mind are Thrawn and Darth Bane.

[Ramza00]

So what does everyone think about the KOTOR 1, KOTOR 2, and the KOTOR online game villains?

(I only played the first one, not the sequel, and not the loosely connected KOTOR mmorpg.)

[khadgar567]

So what does everyone think about the KOTOR 1, KOTOR 2, and the KOTOR online game villains?

(I only played the first one, not the sequel, and not the loosely connected KOTOR mmorpg.)

if we add swtor stuff most dangerous ( to be precise most wacko ) one is vaylin from eternal empire lot of old sith and jedi are kinda predictable just start to mess with their minds and you some how beat them in few months. but the b*tch is to unstable that his own freaking father( who by the way most powerful sith lord in setting that can posses people) needs her to be killed just to secure his next body .

[Dienekes]

So what does everyone think about the KOTOR 1, KOTOR 2, and the KOTOR online game villains?

(I only played the first one, not the sequel, and not the loosely connected KOTOR mmorpg.)

Well I have Malgus on my list. He seemed like Vader, but with an actually cool backstory and no whiny phase.

Sith Emperor I never got a real feel for. Maybe they changed it in the DLCs, but for the most part he was just a generic evil super villain. Vague, inscrutable, and full of BS super powers.

[Nerd-o-rama]

So what does everyone think about the KOTOR 1, KOTOR 2, and the KOTOR online game villains?

(I only played the first one, not the sequel, and not the loosely connected KOTOR mmorpg.)

Revan was cool until Bioware massively, massively overplayed him. And gave him a completely garbage interquel that managed to make everyone from both KOTOR 1 and 2 look awful. Malak was a garbage villain but he made a good punching bag.

Darth Traya is amazing, and if you start reading into them so were Sion, Nihilus, and even Atris. KOTOR2 was arguably trying a little too hard, but if you can tolerate some serious Edginess, all the major bad guys are deeply interesting and cool to watch in action. The HK-51s are amusing too, but I wouldn't rate them as top villains.

TOR...well, the Sith Emperor is just an overpowered engine of destruction with no personality whatsoever, and I've already covered how sick to death I am of Revan. Several of the storyline antagonists are fun, like Darth Baras, Darth Jadus, and indeed the real final boss of Vanilla, Darth Malgus. I couldn't even argue with the man, he was doing exactly what the Sith Empire needed to do, morally and practically.

[Peelee]

Revan was cool until Bioware massively, massively overplayed him. And gave him a completely garbage interquel that managed to make everyone from both KOTOR 1 and 2 look awful. Malak was a garbage villain but he made a good punching bag.

Darth Traya is amazing, and if you start reading into them so were Sion, Nihilus, and even Atris. KOTOR2 was arguably trying a little too hard, but if you can tolerate some serious Edginess, all the major bad guys are deeply interesting and cool to watch in action. The HK-51s are amusing too, but I wouldn't rate them as top villains.

Malak wasn't really garbage, he was just in way over his head. He couldn't command like Revan, and was handed Revan's command. That's enough to make anyone falter.

As for KOTOR 2, they didn't try too hard to be edgy so much as they tried too hard to be mysterious. In the end, you just don't really know the point of it all, because they never told you.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Or because they ran out of time and Lucasfilm wouldn't let them patch the rest of the story in.

[Peelee]

Or because they ran out of time and Lucasfilm wouldn't let them patch the rest of the story in.

Imean, I realize why it happened, but that doesn't change the game. They shouldn't have been force to rush it, because the story suffered. Which was a shame, since the gameplay was even better than the first.

[Flickerdart]

Or because they ran out of time and Lucasfilm wouldn't let them patch the rest of the story in.

What was the rest of the story supposed to be? Wasn't it just "Traya got backstabbed by Sith, this surprised her for some reason, so she got salty and wanted to destroy the Force" or something like that?

[Keltest]

What was the rest of the story supposed to be? Wasn't it just "Traya got backstabbed by Sith, this surprised her for some reason, so she got salty and wanted to destroy the Force" or something like that?

Well, there wasn't a "the rest" of the story, exactly, they just fleshed it out more. And yes, its pretty much "Traya is super mad at the force and wants to kill it". Which to be fair is a fairly plausible motivation for anybody who values free will, until you get to the idea that youre trying to defeat something that controls your actions.

Also, theres a huge disconnect between 1 and 2, in terms of setting. 2 makes it seem like all the jedi everywhere got wiped out, but there are very definitely jedi left at the end of KOTOR 1. The jedi go into hiding because... reasons, I guess, and then it turns out that when they disappear, things Get Worse.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Well, there wasn't a "the rest" of the story, exactly, they just fleshed it out more. And yes, its pretty much "Traya is super mad at the force and wants to kill it". Which to be fair is a fairly plausible motivation for anybody who values free will, until you get to the idea that youre trying to defeat something that controls your actions.

Also, theres a huge disconnect between 1 and 2, in terms of setting. 2 makes it seem like all the jedi everywhere got wiped out, but there are very definitely jedi left at the end of KOTOR 1. The jedi go into hiding because... reasons, I guess, and then it turns out that when they disappear, things Get Worse.

The Jedi were wiped out (by and large went into hiding, actually, to make later works make sense) because Atris betrayed them and led Nihilus to a big conclave where they all got Force Eaten, because she wanted to be Grandmaster or had a plan to kill Nihilus that didn't work or something. After that the Jedi pretty much went to ground and the Republic pretty much abandoned the Outer Rim to let them get picked off by the Triumvirate's Sith.

This happened between the two games, after Revan departed for the Unknown Regious to continue being a huge tool, as later discussed in the execrable Revan novel.

Basically Obsidian wanted a more Original Trilogy feel compared to KOTOR's prequely sense of heroic Jedi adventuring bands. Except you're playing as Obi-wan Kenobi instead of Luke, and your mentor is Palpatine. It's weird.

Really, the main plot holes are where absurdly powerful Sith like Traya, Sion, and Nihilus came from out of Revan's cobbled-together Empire of defected soldiers and 3D-printed warships, and why is Revan that much of a tool. Also, the Ubese bounty hunters. Timeline doesn't match up.

[Keltest]

Really, the main plot holes are where absurdly powerful Sith like Traya, Sion, and Nihilus came from out of Revan's cobbled-together Empire of defected soldiers and 3D-printed warships, and why is Revan that much of a tool. Also, the Ubese bounty hunters. Timeline doesn't match up.

Well, Traya was a jedi master and one of Revan's mentors. Nihilus ate that jedi conclave you mentioned, and Sion doesn't seem to be all that powerful, just hard to keep down. I think its implied, at least, that Traya gathered the other two as the first variation of her plan to off the force, since Nihilus at least definitely seems to be a parasitic wound in the same way the Exile is supposed to be. They also definitely got ubercharged by all the pain and stuff around Malachor.

[Armok]

Gonna have to go with Bane. His development from discovering his power to learning to fight with wits over raw strength made for a genuinely enjoyable journey from start to finish.

[Aotrs Commander]

Or because they ran out of time and Lucasfilm wouldn't let them patch the rest of the story in.

I played through recently with the restored content mod and FRACK, even with only the restoration job they could do ('cos some stuff was not in a position to be restored), there was a lot of extra stuff.