Elder Scrolls XII: Twelve Worlds of Creation

[factotum]

I thought SKSE was 64-bit out of the door?

[Sharoth]

New thread time!

[Rynjin]

I finally bit the bullet and moved to SE since I got the Skyrim itch again. I was pleased that most of my staple mods (Ordinator works since PerMa isn't available, Apocalypse, Immersive Armors, Better Vampires even though I'm running Enai Saion's vampire mod ATM because it seems the closest to a continuation of Belua Sanguinare we'll ever get, and Alternate Start) were available. Upon launching I was ASTOUNDED at how much better and smoother the SE ran. Skyrim CHUGS on my laptop even on low, but the SE looks and runs miles better.

I'm running Open Cities, a mod that makes NPCs look better, and an immersive sound mod without any noticeable dip in performance too (this is especially mind boggling with Open Cities which made the game nigh unplayable when I tried it for OG Skyrim). The mod selection is smaller and the lack of SkyUI is a major annoyance but all in all the Special Edition i a home run in my book. We'll see how I feel in about a week, if memory issues start showing up and causing random crashes.

[Triaxx]

SkyUI version 2.2 works perfectly well with SE, though you'll have a message about no SKSE in the menu screen.

[VoxRationis]

Continuing my playthrough of the Dawnguard campaign, I have successfully traveled to the Ancestor Glade and read the Elder Scroll. The aftermath, what with getting attacked by a full-on vampire hit squad, makes me bothered that there's no option to have a chat with Serana about operational security. Harkon and company knowing that I'd be in that particular spot at that particular time smacks of more than coincidence. After all, they have neither an Elder Scroll nor anyone they suspect can read the darn things in the attack group, so they weren't just there on separate business. They know I rescued a Moth Priest, so they should think I can get my Scroll-reading from him, rather than needing to track down a bunch of Lepidoptera.* And they certainly didn't just happen to say "the Dragonborn might be going here, let's head them off" at that particular half-hour interval. No, their arrival means either they have some method of tracking me or Serana, or that someone is actively tipping them off, and Serana is the most likely culprit.



*Incidentally, I was horrified to learn that I could catch the Ancestor Moths out of the air and pick off their wings (I did that by accident once). I feel like there should be some supernatural punishment for that.

[Triaxx]

I always assumed they were tracking the scrolls. You've got three of them on you by that point, which should be fairly easy to find magically.

That said, even a stealthy Dragonborn isn't terribly subtle. Trailing them via the piles of corpses they leave behind should be easy even for a totally inept tracker.

[DigoDragon]

No, their arrival means either they have some method of tracking me or Serana, or that someone is actively tipping them off, and Serana is the most likely culprit.

If they had a way of tracking Serana, wouldn't they have found where she was stored away much sooner? I can't remember if her "tomb" was stated to be warded in any way or not.

[Rynjin]

The biggest issue with Dawnguard is it is written with the assumption that you will be a vampire. The section f the story where you are a part of the Dawnguard is an afterthought lazily tacked on at the start so you know they exist (since they are by and large inconsequential if you join the vampires), and given barely a thought as to how it actually works if you stick with them, giving you multiple opportunities to abandon ship and be a vampire with all the sweet new abilities they coded in.

The Harkon's Court storyline has its own share of contrivances, but none as egregious or frequent as the Dawnguard side.

[VoxRationis]

The biggest issue with Dawnguard is it is written with the assumption that you will be a vampire. The section f the story where you are a part of the Dawnguard is an afterthought lazily tacked on at the start so you know they exist (since they are by and large inconsequential if you join the vampires), and given barely a thought as to how it actually works if you stick with them, giving you multiple opportunities to abandon ship and be a vampire with all the sweet new abilities they coded in.

The Harkon's Court storyline has its own share of contrivances, but none as egregious or frequent as the Dawnguard side.

Hm. Shame I'm going Dawnguard for my first playthrough. I wanted to play a paladin. Oh well. I'll go vamp for my next character.

[Balmas]

I always assumed they were tracking the scrolls. You've got three of them on you by that point, which should be fairly easy to find magically.

That said, even a stealthy Dragonborn isn't terribly subtle. Trailing them via the piles of corpses they leave behind should be easy even for a totally inept tracker.

Something I found out on my last playthrough was that you can give the Elder Scrolls to the librarian in the College of Winterhold if you don't want to lug them around with you.

Of course, that means that they're merely under the lock and key of the most jealous librarian in Skyrim, rather than in the pouches of the most dangerous person in Skyrim.

[Winter_Wolf]

The biggest issue with Dawnguard is it is written with the assumption that you will be a vampire.

Is it? I have literally never wanted to nor actually played as a vampire in Skyrim. Angered Harkon a few times by having the audacity to be a filthy werewolf daring to bask in his grandiose egotistical presence, but never said "bite me."

Y'know im sure there's a better way to write that, but eh.

[DigoDragon]

Of course, that means that they're merely under the lock and key of the most jealous librarian in Skyrim, rather than in the pouches of the most dangerous person in Skyrim.

True, but isn't there some lore that the scrolls can't be contained if they don't want to be? Like, you wake up one morning and it's simply gone from the lock box?

[Shoreward]

Upon launching I was ASTOUNDED at how much better and smoother the SE ran. Skyrim CHUGS on my laptop even on low, but the SE looks and runs miles better.

Yeah, I'm legitimately impressed with this. Bethesda's engines usually chug like a freight train loaded with other freight trains at the best of times, but whatever they did with the SE vastly improved it. I can live with the lack of a few of my "essential" mods.

I've been treating SE as a "slightly cleaner Original Skyrim" while treating my original Skyrim folder as my "Modded Skyrim" one, though I could easily swap the two around considering how much better they run on the tweaked engine.

The downside I have noticed is that sounds in SE have been audibly compressed, particularly the sound of picking up coins. On the bright side, this too is easily fixed by mods. Thanks, community!

[Rynjin]

Is it? I have literally never wanted to nor actually played as a vampire in Skyrim. Angered Harkon a few times by having the audacity to be a filthy werewolf daring to bask in his grandiose egotistical presence, but never said "bite me."

Y'know im sure there's a better way to write that, but eh.

Yes. Look at the way the plot is laid out and it looks pretty clear.

Spoiler

Show

Step 1: Join the Dawnguard. Stumbling block, bad writing. Dawnguard advantage (sort of, it's bad writing all in all).

Step 2: Free a vampire, willingly help her home. Given two choices: Become a vampire (and not just a vampire, a SUPER DUPER vampire in a once in a lifetime only chance), or be banished. Vampire advantage.

Step 3: Retrieve first Elder Scroll. Largely faction neutral, only difference is who you fight to get it.
--Step 3.5: Probably get infected with Sanguinare Vampiris. Have to get it cured before you can continue on the Dawnguard side. Adds an extra bit of hassle to your playthrough. Vampire advantage.

Step 4: Go to Soul Cairn. Either be a vampire or take hefty penalties to all your stats for the duration of your stay. Vampire advantage.

Note that at this point you have had two story driven points to become a vampire, and a variable number of incidental gameplay moments to do so.

Step 5: Retrieve Auriel's Bow. If you are a vampire the bow is a gamechanger. You can use it to blot out the sun (negating your weakness to sunlight for about 12 in game hours). As a Dawnguard it makes a pretty crappy explosion effect. It deals the extra damage to undead regardless or this would potentially be neutral (since undead are so prevalent) but as-is: Vampire advantage.

Let's see the toys you get to play with:

Vampire: Vampire Lord form (perks for your vampire form, incidental immunity to falling damage, AoE health drain, easier vampire feeding). An item that lets your Vampiric Drain power heal Magicka as well. Aforementioned de facto negation of major vampire weakness. Crappy but cool looking armor, access to unique useful shop equipment.

Dawnguard: Crappy but cool looking armor, crossbows (that suck), access to unique and useful shop spells.

Advantage: Vampire.

If Dawnguard didn't still have best girl Serana as a companion it wouldn't even be worth existing.

[DigoDragon]

crossbows (that suck)

They do have a very satisfying sound though. But yeah, other than the audio, I never stuck with the crossbow. A cute novelty and that's about it. Shame it doesn't fire stakes or something interesting.

[Winter_Wolf]

I love crossbows.

But okay I can see how people would gravitate toward the vampire thing. Except people such as myself who have no interest in it. I mean, I was pretty oblivious to the bias until it got spelled out like that. Even with the point by point, honestly some of those things don't strike me as plus points.

Then again I've loved werewolves forever and still do, while I think I got my fill of vampires in the early 1990s.

Seriously, though, I love crossbows.

[Shoreward]

There's something about the feel of a crossbow that bows just don't bring, and I wish they got more attention in Skyrim. I suppose it's because I can imagine that my character's arms aren't as ripped as they come, unlike with bows. It feels more like a weapon someone could pick up and figure out quickly, then let the crank do most of the heavy lifting. I used crossbows for my street-thief character almost without exception.

I also like them because it's the first time since Morrowind that we've seen a more advanced weapon. We somehow lost spears, crossbows, and throwing weapons between Morrowind and Oblivion. The only spears we've seen since then belong to the Rieklings, who have apparently mastered shrinking technology. The reappearance of the crossbow, especially in the hands of an organised monster-hunting group, just feels right to me. Very military.

[DigoDragon]

Thinking about it, perhaps the advantage of a crossbow is that you can probably get it fairly low level, which would make it stronger than bows accessible at the time (I was high level and working with Daedric weapons). Reloads a bit slower though.

[Triaxx]

I have always found the Crossbow to be a better option for ranged attack for Heavy Armor users than a bow.

[Shoreward]

Yeah, that about does it. It also does bonus damage against undead, if I recall, which I think Draugr count as.

The reload speed never mattered much to me, since I don't go for ranged unless I'm adding stealth to the mix. It's a bit louder than a bow, but with high enough stealth it hardly matters. Some of the upgraded crossbows can carry you for a few more levels, too.

Since I don't tend to play much as the "epic levels" of Skyrim (I rarely crest the peak of 50), I never got to the point where a crossbow couldn't fill in for any other weapon as far as damage went.

[Triaxx]

The biggest advantage is the armor piercing. Being able to cut through it when fighting heavily armored troops.

[Winter_Wolf]

I like that the default position for crossbows is "loaded". Having a ready bolt doesn't slow walking or running speed that I've noticed and I don't have to hold down the mouse button while positioning for the shot. Plus "ka-chunk" is a pretty satisfying thing to hear. I'm a significantly better long range sniper with a bow to be sure, but shooting things and clubbing them with a crossbow is very satisfying. My biggest problem with them is the apparent lack of availability until committing to starting the Dawnguard quest line.

Incidentally, I don't recall the Skyrim crossbows having winches. The animation I recall is pulling the string back with the left hand.

[Shoreward]

Incidentally, I don't recall the Skyrim crossbows having winches. The animation I recall is pulling the string back with the left hand.

I'm not sure what the mechanism is called, but you definitely pull back a sort of "crank" from the top to the bottom. You can see it in this image here.

Edit: Aha! The wiki page the image comes from calls it a "Goat's Foot Lever", used to pull back the string.

[Triaxx]

SkyRe tweaked the availability of Crossbows by adding them to the leveled list. Which naturally meant EVERYONE had one. Mostly just guards, but still. If you want, I could create a custom mod for it. I remember how to do that much.

[Temotei]

Crossbows are also easier to bash with after attacking than with bows (bashing right after shooting does full ranged attack damage).

[Rynjin]

But okay I can see how people would gravitate toward the vampire thing. Except people such as myself who have no interest in it. I mean, I was pretty oblivious to the bias until it got spelled out like that. Even with the point by point, honestly some of those things don't strike me as plus points.

Then again I've loved werewolves forever and still do, while I think I got my fill of vampires in the early 1990s.

I'd love it if werewolves got the same love as vampires since they're cooler but the problem is werewolves A.) Have no benefits outside of werewolf form (and even their overhaul mods are nowhere near as comprehensive as the vampire mods out there) and B.) Gain all their power when transformed.

B.) is where all the strikes come in since that means I can't use magic (two strikes in itself), am forced to play in third person (god why), and basically can't level up if I use it. Plus the damage it deals falls way behind using weapons so while combats are no threat (every time you power attack you knock people over so you're just smashing them in a corner while they can't fight back) they also take FOREVER (because you do no damage).

I also like them because it's the first time since Morrowind that we've seen a more advanced weapon. We somehow lost spears, crossbows, and throwing weapons between Morrowind and Oblivion. The only spears we've seen since then belong to the Rieklings, who have apparently mastered shrinking technology. The reappearance of the crossbow, especially in the hands of an organised monster-hunting group, just feels right to me. Very military.

Apparently spears just "couldn't be done" in Skyrim. I guess an animation fr poking instead of slashing was too much work. There's a mod for throwing knives that ain't bad. Pairs well with ZA WARUDO mod, bringing us neatly back to the vampire discussion.

Thinking about it, perhaps the advantage of a crossbow is that you can probably get it fairly low level, which would make it stronger than bows accessible at the time (I was high level and working with Daedric weapons). Reloads a bit slower though.

True. They're about double the strength of any bow you'd expect to find at level 10. They reload waaaay slower though you can bypass that by unequipping and re-equipping it.

I use crossbows on characters that aren't dedicated archers since I don't have to draw the bow but they're exclusively for potshots at dragons and making a shot before I close the distance.

I think they'd be perfect if they could be wielded one-handed with a sword or shield or spell in the other hand.

[Shoreward]

Apparently spears just "couldn't be done" in Skyrim. I guess an animation fr poking instead of slashing was too much work. There's a mod for throwing knives that ain't bad. Pairs well with ZA WARUDO mod, bringing us neatly back to the vampire discussion.

But how many seconds will that let me move in the stopped time? I can't stand proud beside my nordic brethren unless I can go at least ten, and the destiny of my dragonborn blood won't be satisfied until I've turned the enemy into a bloody stream on my quest to stop the end of the world.

[Rynjin]

But how many seconds will that let me move in the stopped time? I can't stand proud beside my nordic brethren unless I can go at least ten, and the destiny of my dragonborn blood won't be satisfied until I've turned the enemy into a bloody stream on my quest to stop the end of the world.

First: Excellent Jojokes.

Second: Depends on the mod. Some are just sound replacers for Bend Time, which lasts either 8, 12, or 16 seconds. Some are infinite so you have plenty of time to thank your friends, slowly saunter to your enemy, beat them up, and then pretend it was only 2 seconds when you undo the power.

[Winter_Wolf]

I'm not sure what the mechanism is called, but you definitely pull back a sort of "crank" from the top to the bottom. You can see it in this image here.

Edit: Aha! The wiki page the image comes from calls it a "Goat's Foot Lever", used to pull back the string.

Shows how amazing my powers of perception aren't. That makes lots more sense than what I remembered.

SkyRe tweaked the availability of Crossbows by adding them to the leveled list. Which naturally meant EVERYONE had one. Mostly just guards, but still. If you want, I could create a custom mod for it. I remember how to do that much.

I'm pretty content with my mod situation these days (i.e. They're all working together and I haven't had corrupted saves in a good long while). I still use the one that alters Breezehome's alchemy and enchanting tables. Did I ever thank you for that? I generally just use the console for items, since often it's a very specific character idea I'm working with and hitting the tilde and typing in a command is a one-off thing versus hoping all my mods stay compatible and functional after any change In the lineup. For a while I was spending twice as much time trouble shooting mod conflicts as I was playing.

[Feytalist]

I'd love it if werewolves got the same love as vampires since they're cooler but the problem is werewolves A.) Have no benefits outside of werewolf form (and even their overhaul mods are nowhere near as comprehensive as the vampire mods out there) and B.) Gain all their power when transformed.

Disease immunity. It's hardly gamebreaking, but it is pretty damn useful, even if just in an anti-frustration kind of way.

I'm generally a werewolf, even if I don't necessarily play *as* a werewolf. I like that you can just hulk out and go to town whenever you want. There's something nice and cathartic about bounding around the countryside like a manic puppy. The only annoyance is that, if you've been messing up bandits and eating their hearts, it takes forever to wear off. It would have been nice to have an off switch.

It would also have been nice if your Companion followers would also hulk out occasionally, but I rarely play with them anyway so that's a minor one.