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2017-01-11, 05:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2016
Re: Elder Scrolls XII: Twelve Worlds of Creation
Which means basically nothing with regards to whether or not a perk whose description is "all spells are more effective against undead" should cause spells which are beneficial to the target to be more powerful when the target is undead. "All spells are more effective against undead" means that offensive spells should cause more harm to undead targets than to non-undead targets and defensive spells should ward off harm more effectively when the harm comes from an undead source than when the harm comes from a non-undead source. "All spells are more effective against undead" does not tell us anything about how the perk affects spells which are beneficial to the target when those spells are cast on undead because things which are beneficial to the target are not used against the target.
When you say that you use one thing against another thing, you mean that you are using the first thing to protect yourself or others from, ward off, or harm the second thing. You do not protect yourself from, ward off, or harm undead by targeting undead with spells which are beneficial to the target. If the perk had been intended to cause all spells to have more potent effects upon undead than upon other targets, the wording of the perk description should have been something more along the lines of "all spells are more effective when used on undead" or "all spells are more effective against or on undead." The description as it stands only applies spells which are used in opposition to the undead, i.e. offensive spells should have more powerful effects on undead than on non-undead targets and defensive spells should provide greater protection from harm caused by undead assailants than from harm caused by non-undead assailants.
Edit: Take, for example, medicine. If you are using medicine appropriately, it is never correct to say that you are using medicine against yourself or another person, as the meaning of the statement "I am using medicine against another person" is "I am using medicine on a person with the intent of causing harm to that person." Assuming you are using medicine correctly, it could be appropriate to say "I am using medicine on another person" as this carries no implications regarding the purposes for which you are using medicine, or "I am using medicine against an infection/ailment" as this carries the implication that the intent behind the use of the medicine is to protect someone from or ward off the harm that the infection/ailment could inflict if left untreated.Last edited by Aeson; 2017-01-11 at 05:18 PM.
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2017-01-11, 05:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
Re: Elder Scrolls XII: Twelve Worlds of Creation
Right, so I would conclude the definition is faulty. "Undead", in this universe at least, doesn't mean that.
One alternative definition would be "one whose life has been extended indefinitely" (hence "undying", and therefore by logical extension "undead"). Of course that might include the Nerevarine (can't recall exactly what Divayth Fyr says, does corprus make you effectively immortal or merely very-long-lived?) But it excludes creatures such as dragons and daedra, who are (as far as we know) born immortal.
We know that necromancers in this world often spend a lot of effort on extending their own lives. This definition would imply that at some point they will also begin to blur the line between "alive" and "undead", which seems fitting."None of us likes to be hated, none of us likes to be shunned. A natural result of these conditions is, that we consciously or unconsciously pay more attention to tuning our opinions to our neighbor’s pitch and preserving his approval than we do to examining the opinions searchingly and seeing to it that they are right and sound." - Mark Twain
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2017-01-11, 06:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2006
- Location
- Up there past them trees!
Re: Elder Scrolls XII: Twelve Worlds of Creation
Wow. So an endothermic animal can be exothermic? IMO, Bio needs to get their act together.
Yes, that's why it's the Unofficial patch. Let's just say I have creative differences with the maintainers of that mod.
And shouts aren't magic effects? If they wanted to fix only the perk//racial interactions, I have no problem with that, but the way I see it, enchantments, potions, standing stones, etc., can all be considered magic effects. I'm also not wild about them 'fixing' getting free training from followers.
So instead of focusing on whether the game effect is fun, we're tooltip grammar police. Like I said, creative differences.
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2017-01-11, 06:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
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- Lemuria
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Re: Elder Scrolls XII: Twelve Worlds of Creation
Against does not solely mean in opposition to. And, Against does not mean 'to cause harm' it means, in opposition to.
It also means, 4. in or into physical contact with (something), typically so as to be supported by or collide with it.
An odd usage to be sure, but it checks out. The magic is being used ON the undead, and is so, in physical contact with it.
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2017-01-11, 07:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2014
Re: Elder Scrolls XII: Twelve Worlds of Creation
This is all I really used it for.
I'm pretty sure that it is in fact, okay.
IIRC it keeps you from aging.
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2017-01-11, 10:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2016
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2017-01-11, 10:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2013
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- Germany
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Re: Elder Scrolls XII: Twelve Worlds of Creation
Please stop it or the chemist in my brain gets an aneurysm (and the small biologist next to him is jumping up and down): Endothermic processes (i.e. chemical reactions) ABSORB warmth from the surrounding area, exothermic processes give away excess heat to the surrounding area. The word you are looking for is cold-blooded (ectotherm) and warm-blooded (pokilotherm). And while humanoids (with a possible exception of Argonians) loose warmth, the mistake is not as grave (yes, undead puns!) as with Vampires who might be evil, but they are not "suck in all the warmth from the surrounding area" evil.
Please do not start on thermodynamics of Absorb Health or other Destruction spells now. On a different note: At least I know now why I love to be Argonian when I play a Vampire. Some lizard biting people and staying cold-blooded isn't as alien and def. helps my immersion when convincing myself why a character with yellow glowing eyes is not immediately shunned by EVERYONE.
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2017-01-11, 11:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2006
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Re: Elder Scrolls XII: Twelve Worlds of Creation
I had actually forgotten just how much can be had running around in Heavy armor, walloping people with a mace. Though getting Stunlock and Two-shotted? Yeah, that I never missed out on.
I am trying out LPing. Check out my channel here: Triaxx2
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2017-01-12, 12:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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- Middle-o'-Nowhere, Idaho
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Re: Elder Scrolls XII: Twelve Worlds of Creation
Hey, different strokes for different folks. That's the wonderful thing about Skyrim; you get to mod it how you want.
And shouts aren't magic effects? If they wanted to fix only the perk//racial interactions, I have no problem with that, but the way I see it, enchantments, potions, standing stones, etc., can all be considered magic effects. I'm also not wild about them 'fixing' getting free training from followers.
So instead of focusing on whether the game effect is fun, we're tooltip grammar police. Like I said, creative differences.I run a Let's Play channel! Check it out!
Currently, we're playing through New Vegas as Gabriel de la Cruz, merchant and mercenary extraordinaire!
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2017-01-12, 02:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2013
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- Germany
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Re: Elder Scrolls XII: Twelve Worlds of Creation
Let's not ignore the fact that every detrimental effect is also increased.
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2017-01-12, 08:30 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2014
Re: Elder Scrolls XII: Twelve Worlds of Creation
So apparently I'm doing a Let's Play...
SpoilerI've finished my playthrough of the Dawnguard campaign and moved on to Dragonborn without making a new character to explore the vampire campaign. My thoughts on the last stages of the Dawnguard campaign:
- Can you just make a prophecy? Could I prophesy that "when the Dragonborn walks to Solitude, all will shower them with free magical items?"
- My planned expedition to the Aetherium Forge will have to be delayed, because after the Forgotten Vale, I have had it with Falmer;
- Perhaps I was expecting much, but I kind of expected the assault on Castle Volikhar to go belly-up, on account of my not doing much to improve the Dawnguard—they still have cobwebs everywhere. But this apparently is not Mass Effect 2.
Having journeyed to Solstheim, I am struck by huge waves of nostalgia! I didn't even play Morrowind that much, on account of it crashing regularly and being ridiculously deadly for the first level, as well as having a plot that isn't exactly engaging at the beginning ("meet up with this guy, then go do odd jobs"). But I find myself happy to hear the old music, see the guards in their bonemold armor (although apparently they've stopped smoking since Morrowind, judging by their voices), and marvel at all the funny Dunmer architecture. I even think the guards here have a different walking animation, with more of the old Morrowind swagger. I don't miss the cliff racers, though. I'm also a little poorly-equipped to fight much of what I find here, because most of my chief damage-dealing measures are anti-undead or fire-based, and everything here is on fire already. Strangely, Ash Wraiths don't seem to be affected by my anti-undead spells and equipment.
I explored for a while, mostly trying to find settlements rather than more Ash Wraith-filled dungeons, and came across a mead hall filled with things called "Rieklings." They approached me openly and in a friendly manner, which my journal seems to think is unusual, even though I've never seen or heard of these creatures before. I did a couple trivial tasks for them before they got to the meat of their request to me—a request to assist them in wiping out the group of Nords who originally inhabited their home. After the trail of blood I had left through the Falmer cities of the Forgotten Vale, I had been hoping for peaceful coexistence with this group of not-quite-goblins, and the idea of helping them slaughter a human encampment disgusted me, to the point where I just left.
I then stumbled upon the encampment of the people these "Rieklings" had displaced! They naturally asked for my aid in slaughtering the tribe of short blue people and reclaiming their mead hall, a task I was mildly more amenable to, but some of their dialogue threw me off. At one point they referred to the Rieklings as pests, and the group's self-description of their lifestyle, being a community based around drinking and fighting, seemed a bit like a glorified bandit camp. It's possible that these Rieklings had suffered perennial attacks from this group of Nords that disdained them so, and had banded together to end the cause of their torment. Of course, I had no proof of this, and didn't want to kill people based on needless speculation, so I just left both camps until I could get further evidence.
Then I returned to Raven Rock, and while exploring the town, stumbled upon a mine whose main inhabitant asked me to explore a mine for his ancestor, who died under mysterious circumstances which the East Empire Company covered up. I explored the mine, only to find another Nordic crypt full of Draugr. With Dawnbreaker and the Bow of Auriel, as well as Serana and summoned Flame Atronachs, even the Deathlords fell reasonably easily. Inside I find a magic greatsword with a damage bonus that only applies to power attacks. I find that underwhelming, since I fight with sword and shield and would like bonuses that apply to all attacks, but I'm keeping the sword for uniqueness value. I'll put it up on a rack in my manor house. I solve the "puzzle" door, progress to fight the Dragon Priest at the end of the dungeon. The priest dies easily, on account of my having Auriel's Bow and the priest failing the normal Dragon Priest shuffle-float which would throw off my aim. The mask, which buffs shock spells, I find potentially useful and take.
In the area beyond, on the way out of the dungeon, I find a pedestal with a "Black Book." It seems important, so I take a look... and get attacked by tentacles and sucked into another plane. Great. Well, I'm not immediately dead, and still have my equipment and spells, so let's see where this goes.
I am greeted by a voiceover from Hermaeus Mora, who introduces himself as though he hadn't had a conversation with me earlier, says there's knowledge tucked inside this plane for "the clever," and mentions that I can read the book again to leave. Bolstered by that knowledge, I press onward in the hopes of getting some interesting buff. The plane was short, the combat uninteresting (though I lost a lot of crossbow bolts on Seekers that ended up unlootable), and the reward... all right. Not quite what I expected from Hermaeus Mora's domain—seems to me like he wouldn't care about friendly fire—but Serana does get in the way of my attacks pretty often. I scoff at Mora's boast that this was supposed to be a task for cleverness, since I mostly just killed my way to the end, and exit to Mundus.
Serana doesn't seem to have any response to the fact that I was just pulled bodily into a book and then reappeared a few minutes later, and we press onward out of the barrow. Amusingly, the secret exit to the dungeon comes into the back of a bandit hideout, which I burst forth from like a fledgling wasp eating its way out of a caterpillar. In retrospect, the architecture of that barrow made little sense. All the secret doors and levers, all the pathways and tests the ancient Nords liked to build, were backwards, only making sense from the perspective of one trying to progress from an entrance that didn't exist when the barrow was built.
I return to Raven Rock and give the miner the news. He goes on about how he'll reveal this and make the East Empire Company "pay," which seems odd. They discovered something dangerous in the mine and shut it down quietly to prevent further deaths—they didn't sell people into slavery or put skooma in their grain shipments or anything. I'm not sure why he's mad at them.
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2017-01-12, 09:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2008
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- Orlando, FL
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Re: Elder Scrolls XII: Twelve Worlds of Creation
I was asked by a local group to GM them a campaign. After some thought, I decided on running something loosely using Skyrim as the setting. With a fellow GMer online, we pieced together some basic mechanics for Word Walls, Dragon Shouts, statistics for local critters, etc. The last bit was how to introduce the PCs to the world because none of them have played an Elders Scrolls game before (not completely surprised, but, still interesting odds) so I'd have to teach them the setting if they make characters that are native to Tamriel.
Well, this group isn't one to like a huge data dump. They prefer going in blind. So how do I get the PCs into a foreign setting where their characters should know the world?
Spoiler: Inspiration from an unlikely source...The idea came to me last night-- the Live Another Life mod.
My idea is the players can fluff their character backgrounds from whatever D&D or generic fantasy world they wish. They each wake up in a prison cell with no knowledge how they got there. Were they arrested for a crime? Are they dead and in purgatory? I'll leave that one hanging for a bit of mystery. Each player interacts with the Mara statue in the cell and are told they will be given a chance to start a new life where they are needed (I'll give them some of the mod options as a starting choice). Then they get whisked away to the campaign start near each other and can learn together as a group.
I think this can work with a little tweaking.
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2017-01-12, 11:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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- Manchester, UK
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Re: Elder Scrolls XII: Twelve Worlds of Creation
VoxRationis, there's a really nice house you can get in Riven Rock if you follow a certain questline (hint: try speaking with the town high-ups), and I reckon it's easily the best house in the game--loads of places to put armour and weapons, complete alchemy, enchanting and smithing setups, the works.
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2017-01-12, 11:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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- Middle-o'-Nowhere, Idaho
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Re: Elder Scrolls XII: Twelve Worlds of Creation
I run a Let's Play channel! Check it out!
Currently, we're playing through New Vegas as Gabriel de la Cruz, merchant and mercenary extraordinaire!
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2017-01-12, 12:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2008
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- Orlando, FL
- Gender
Re: Elder Scrolls XII: Twelve Worlds of Creation
Exactly! :D
Races were easy to gather together. I'm not going to worry too much about getting the ES racial mechanics "right" for the campaign. D&D has like... a gajillion elves in official sources alone to pick from, so I'll look at the flavor more just to keep the number of headaches I'll get down from these players.
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2017-01-12, 02:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2016
Re: Elder Scrolls XII: Twelve Worlds of Creation
By your line of reasoning, I can mean "I am paying those cannons which are over by the wall to perform some task" when I say "I am employing the cannons against the wall." Technically, this is not incorrect - the words do carry those meanings and I'm not doing anything grammatically incorrect - but it is still wrong because when those words are put together like that they do not carry those meanings. Context is important. "Something is more effective against something else" does not mean "when you put something in contact with something else it becomes better" in standard English.
Also, by your line of reasoning, if Bobby Bandit and Danny Draugr are simultaneously affected by the same spell and the spell's caster has this perk, then the spell should have a greater effect on Bobby Bandit than it would if Bobby Bandit had been the only one affected by the spell, because the spell is in contact with Danny Draugr at the time that it's affecting Bobby Bandit and is more effective when touching undead.
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2017-01-12, 02:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2016
Re: Elder Scrolls XII: Twelve Worlds of Creation
Someone did a conversion already that's pretty good.
Not too hard to understand. May need to explain to any player that picks a Wood Elf that they're probably a cannibal though.
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2017-01-12, 03:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
Re: Elder Scrolls XII: Twelve Worlds of Creation
"None of us likes to be hated, none of us likes to be shunned. A natural result of these conditions is, that we consciously or unconsciously pay more attention to tuning our opinions to our neighbor’s pitch and preserving his approval than we do to examining the opinions searchingly and seeing to it that they are right and sound." - Mark Twain
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2017-01-12, 03:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
Re: Elder Scrolls XII: Twelve Worlds of Creation
1. Yes, anyone can make a prophecy. "Getting anyone else to take it seriously", though, that's a whole different kettle of ball games. Prophecies don't change reality, except in so far as people learn about them and act differently because of it.
I found the Aetherium Forge quest simultaneously exciting and disappointing. Exciting because it's a bit different from the usual "go to place X and beat up hordes of the enemy-du-jour", and I really liked the ghost chick, whatsername, as well as her bow. Disappointing because the final reward is kinda "is that what all this was about?"
The attack on the castle goes as planned because at this point Bethesda clearly thought they'd created "enough" content to justify the price tag, and therefore there's no point spinning things out even further. And personally, I think they're right.
And even better: it's free!
Actually, better than free, because you pick up some nice loot in the quest that earns it. And then you don't have to part with any of that. It's like having your own ebony mine."None of us likes to be hated, none of us likes to be shunned. A natural result of these conditions is, that we consciously or unconsciously pay more attention to tuning our opinions to our neighbor’s pitch and preserving his approval than we do to examining the opinions searchingly and seeing to it that they are right and sound." - Mark Twain
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2017-01-12, 03:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2005
- Location
- In the playground
Re: Elder Scrolls XII: Twelve Worlds of Creation
Last edited by gooddragon1; 2017-01-12 at 03:55 PM.
There is no emotion more useless in life than hate.
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2017-01-12, 04:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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- Manchester, UK
- Gender
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2017-01-12, 05:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
Re: Elder Scrolls XII: Twelve Worlds of Creation
"None of us likes to be hated, none of us likes to be shunned. A natural result of these conditions is, that we consciously or unconsciously pay more attention to tuning our opinions to our neighbor’s pitch and preserving his approval than we do to examining the opinions searchingly and seeing to it that they are right and sound." - Mark Twain
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2017-01-12, 05:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2013
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- Germany
- Gender
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2017-01-12, 05:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2016
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2017-01-12, 05:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2006
- Gender
Re: Elder Scrolls XII: Twelve Worlds of Creation
Once you've been there, there's a map marker in the upper-right corner of the screen that will drop you on the docks in Solstheim.
Detrimental effects on yourself? Mostly none, unless you're using home-made potions, which can occasionally have side effects if 'poison' is also mixed as part of it.I am trying out LPing. Check out my channel here: Triaxx2
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2017-01-12, 05:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2014
Re: Elder Scrolls XII: Twelve Worlds of Creation
It's not an Elder Scrolls game UNLESS you wake up as a prisoner.
Which, given how easy it is to steal things by accident, really shouldn't surprise anyone.
You can; I've done it.
I think I was making poor Harath swim the whole way there and back every time...
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2017-01-12, 07:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2014
Re: Elder Scrolls XII: Twelve Worlds of Creation
Yeah, I found that out on my own an hour before reading this thread again. I took one look at the basement and figured that I'd end up with the place—no other building besides a Dragonborn residence has a smithy, alchemical lab, and arcane enchanter in such close proximity, to say nothing of empty weapon racks and mannequins.
The problem is that I've already sunk a ton of time and gold into Lakeview Manor. Its weapon racks are getting pretty full, but I don't really want to split my spoils between two houses, because then I have to remember which house has something. Heck, I have enough problems when I put different objects in different containers in the same house. Plus, I appreciate the setting of Lakeview much better than Raven Rock.
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2017-01-12, 09:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2006
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Re: Elder Scrolls XII: Twelve Worlds of Creation
It's pretty simple to whip up a custom door way mod to go from the Manor in Solstheim to your other house. Just make sure you use an empty spot in a cell that 'exists' in the house you've built. Doesn't even have to be a 'door' persay. You can set up any sort of activator as a door I believe. A magical portal thing isn't that hard to do. (I believe you can even use things that aren't normally available, but I haven't done that in a while.)
I am trying out LPing. Check out my channel here: Triaxx2
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2017-01-12, 11:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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- Middle-o'-Nowhere, Idaho
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Re: Elder Scrolls XII: Twelve Worlds of Creation
Might I point you to Functional Homes? It adds most of the amenities you could want to every house in the game. This includes things like crafting stations and a wall of chests that you can store things in. Don't worry about leaving things in one house and looking for them in another, as the inventories for the storage systems are shared between houses. (In addition, you'll find the Luggage, a chest that appears in the inns when you rent a room for the night, again with a shared inventory.) The house in Raven Rock even has a series of pedestals where you can store your Black Books so that they don't clog your inventory.
I run a Let's Play channel! Check it out!
Currently, we're playing through New Vegas as Gabriel de la Cruz, merchant and mercenary extraordinaire!
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2017-01-13, 12:44 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2014
Re: Elder Scrolls XII: Twelve Worlds of Creation
I think one of the difficulties with the house in Raven Rock is that by the time you find it, you're usually high enough level that you already own a functional house in a more convenient spot. You can get Breezehome lickety-split if you give the main quest even token attention.
It also doesn't help that Solstheim's idea of a friendly welcome is a mouthful of dust and three Ash Spawn throwing a corpse party. Probably turns people off the whole "chasing down the cultists" idea for a while. Personally, I took it as a challenge to throw an even bigger party, only mine had more axes and frantic, primal shrieking. I call it my "war face".