How Do You Handle Over-Optimization Player Characters And Enemies?

[Ninja-Radish]

I don't care either way about optimization, as long as the player isn't changing characters constantly looking for the most broken combination.

For my part, I optimize for a concept, not for power. I make build choices to most faithfully represent my concept. I don't want to be the most powerful and I don't want to be weakest in the group. In the middle of the pack is where I want to be.

[Max_Killjoy]

I don't care either way about optimization, as long as the player isn't changing characters constantly looking for the most broken combination.

For my part, I optimize for a concept, not for power. I make build choices to most faithfully represent my concept. I don't want to be the most powerful and I don't want to be weakest in the group. In the middle of the pack is where I want to be.

That's where I'm usually going -- I optimize, but not for raw power, but rather to be as faithful to the concept as possible, and to make sure I have enough to get as close as possible to the whole of the concept.

[Quertus]

You're assuming that the problem is that I don't like competition. I have no problem with competition. I enjoy it. I play hockey! That's why I didn't say "I don't like competition".

I. Don't. Like. Deckbuilding.

That "joy" you find in it? It's not there for me. I can't say this any more clearly. The times I've most enjoyed M:tG? Using prebuilt decks.

I could get into a lot of other high-level design discussion about preferring "game-time" decisions to pre-game decisions and a bunch of stuff like that, too. But suffice it to say I don't like optimization/deck-building/etc.

EDIT:

In retrospect, maybe I should have used the "deckbuilding" term more in this discussion, it may have helped people understand that I was saying I don't like the *process*, and wasn't talking about the *result*.

Thanks for responding. You're right, this clears up a bit about what you do and don't enjoy.

That's where I'm usually going -- I optimize, but not for raw power, but rather to be as faithful to the concept as possible, and to make sure I have enough to get as close as possible to the whole of the concept.

Yeah, much the same. When people ask me to make a "more useful" character, or ask me to use my skills to make my characters stronger, I'm always like, "Are you sure?". And then I build D&D characters who can get off hundreds of attacks, or characters who can tank the tarrasque, or other crazy things.

I've never had a group ask me to optimize for power twice.

EDIT: although I have had to bring out the op-fu multiple times in a group when they invited new members who didn't get the concept of playing well with others. It's fun when the rest of the players understand and look forward to what it means for me to whip out the big guns before asking if they'd care to scale back to the party's level.

[Segev]

When people ask me to make a "more useful" character, or ask me to use my skills to make my characters stronger, I'm always like, "Are you sure?". And then I build D&D characters who can get off hundreds of attacks, or characters who can tank the tarrasque, or other crazy things.

I've never had a group ask me to optimize for power twice.

You really should ask them for what power level they're looking for. How useful do they want you to be? That gives you a target. Being "you asked for it!" when they're seeing your character as too weak is not really helpful.

[Quertus]

You really should ask them for what power level they're looking for. How useful do they want you to be? That gives you a target. Being "you asked for it!" when they're seeing your character as too weak is not really helpful.

Well, yes and no. See, "optimization" didn't used to be a dirty word. Communication is hard. When I show people what I can do, it makes it easier for them to understand exactly what I mean when I try to talk about what I want from a game. It also puts them in a position where they realize that maybe there's some value in talking to me about these game details, that maybe it isn't a waste of time to spend more than 30 seconds discussing gaming styles. Not that anybody had good words for it, back in the day.

Me, I love communication. But, until people are willing to listen, there's not much point. So, not being a particularly adept communicator, I have developed tricks to encourage my audience to want to listen. "Are you sure?" is a great one. "Show, don't tell" - or, my version, "Show and Tell" - is another.

This particular example is of me showing that I can optimize (for power), but that isn't my primary interest in playing an RPG. Just like I could play as a mindless terminator making mission-optimal decisions - but what fun would that be?

[erasedisknow]

Have Orcus ride by on Big T and eat them. Then, NEVER BRING UP THE FACT THAT ORCUS LITERALLY ATE A PARTY MEMBER EVER AGAIN.

[Coretron03]

Have Orcus ride by on Big T and eat them. Then, NEVER BRING UP THE FACT THAT ORCUS LITERALLY ATE A PARTY MEMBER EVER AGAIN.

Oh hey, I didn't know you had a Jedi for a dm.