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2017-01-09, 05:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2017-01-09, 05:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
On a slightly different note from the Andi vs. Bandana struggle for continued leadership, has anyone else noticed the somewhat deliberate positioning of those two gauges on the main control panel? They went from one red, one yellow to both red in the space of a few strips. Last time they were both red was when both main propellers were stalled, but the props are spinning fine here. I considered helium level, but that wouldn't make sense given strip 949. Also, just before the giants started attacking, the top was yellow/red, while the bottom was yellow/green.
Just art, or a portent of an impending crash?
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2017-01-09, 05:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
Before you say that this is an unrealistic way to get promoted, I want to point out that this is exactly how I got my last three jobs.
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2017-01-09, 05:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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2017-01-09, 05:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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2017-01-09, 05:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2010
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- The Primus Imperium
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
@Bandana and Andi: On this page alone Andi's called her a stubborn little brat, "Little Miss Junior Captain" and screamed that Bandana should "just do what I tell you to". She's done nothing to actually fix the ship during the attack, has been questioning Bandana's competence and undermining her authority throughout the entire book and has been looking for reasons to be insulted since the start of aforementioned book. Bandana's position as captain is temporary, sure, but she's still the captain.
Yes, ****'s gone horribly bad, but acting like Andi did nothing to spark this conflict is absurd. Okay?
EDIT: And now that I read it again, she HAS been listening and responding to Andi's input. She just hasn't been doing exactly what Andi's suggested. Because her plans have been ****e.
For one thing, the final battle's going to take place over the final gate, meaning that the villains need time to FIND the final gate. It's the same reason Xykon lost his phylactery, but in reverse this time. He couldn't just show up at the last gate like he did with Girard's, because that would be repetitive, boring and undermine the strength the gate's defenses are supposed to have when at full strength.
The gods are involved because there isn't much time left to get them involved, and they're pretty much the only source of accurate info we have on the world in the Rift. We know the Snarl is real, but we also know that the Order is unsure of its existence, and that world is definitely still an eyebrow raiser. This is also a logical point to bring them in, narratively speaking: this is the last point where they'll have a chance to take their time and think about their decision to destroy the world.
There's also a theme of how one's past and upbringing creates who you are being built in the background, much as how family and blood ties were in the last book as early as Sandsedge. We've learned of Crystal and Haley's formative years in Greysky city (and potentially foreshadowed how the HPoH is gonna go in the process, though imo that was the weakest part of the entire story so far) and Bandana's whole character is built around how she wanted to be captain from her earliest memories. Durkon's early life is also put at the forefront.
The HPoH became a character to both create a dramatically significant villain and to remove the Order's access to Resurrection. It's also given us a good luck at Durkon's motives and home life, as well as clued us in to how exactly the HPoH was formed, its own motives and how vampires work in the setting (at least by the chosen method). It's been reinforced that Roy had a **** dad and because of that his brother died. (Side note: my personal theory is that Eugene is so bitter about family because of what happened with Ben (Bill? F$#@, I don't remember). He's gonna get to go to the Mountain, but learn Ben's in the afterlife as well and unfortunately Eugene promised to never go visit his family. Screwed over by his own attitude again.)
Those're the thoughts off the top of my head. And yes, a lot of this has been brought up before (though often in less detail). The point of bringing it up again is so you're thinking of it later in the book when it becomes relevant.Last edited by HalfTangible; 2017-01-09 at 06:03 PM.
Hate me if you want. But that's your issue to fix, not mine.
Primal ego vos, estis ex nihilo.
When Gods Go To War comes out March 8th
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Extended Sig
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2017-01-09, 05:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
This. It comes across more as Andi's narcissistic reaction to a blow to her ego than some kind of "valid" response to a life-threatening situation.
The Mechane was actually starting to get away from the threat, was it not? The spellcasters are behind and either maimed or dead. The warriors were getting taken down by a combination of Roy and gravity, while Elan is fixing the balloon. But why yes, let's all panic and respond to the life-threatening situation by turning back into the army of hostile frost giants and letting them all potshot us again.
Also, this. The crew seems perfectly fine picking on "fat merchant blimps" with wanton piracy, but apparently threading through a hazardous mountain pass is out of the question. I guess they're a lot more cowardly than they've ever let on in the story before.
Hell, the crewmembers who are below decks might not even know or realize (yet) that a change in command has even taken place. I wonder what their reaction will be.I prepared Explosive Runes before writing this signature.
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2017-01-09, 05:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2014
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- Genova, Italy
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
Always hated Andi.
I hope she dies a horrible death, preferably soon.
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2017-01-09, 05:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2005
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
Yeah, my first thought was Roy's going to tell her she's basically doomed the world with what she's done, and it'll probably end with Roy's greatsword going through her.
Andi just went from supporting character to significant antagonist, and pretty much her life is forfeit now.
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2017-01-09, 06:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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2017-01-09, 06:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
Thanks Giant!
Mutiny!To find in order to lose; To fall in order to stand up
To freeze in order to ignite; To find myself within, and not fear the edge
To die in order to be reborn to the new world
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2017-01-09, 06:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
To be fair, her plan is to turn off the pass, not to turn back. It could lead them into a dead end, but it's not quite walking back through the fire you just got through.
Also, this. The crew seems perfectly fine picking on "fat merchant blimps" with wanton piracy, but apparently threading through a hazardous mountain pass is out of the question. I guess they're a lot more cowardly than they've ever let on in the story before.
Originally Posted by LaurannaLast edited by HalfTangible; 2017-01-09 at 06:11 PM.
Hate me if you want. But that's your issue to fix, not mine.
Primal ego vos, estis ex nihilo.
When Gods Go To War comes out March 8th
Discord: HalfTangible
Extended Sig
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2017-01-09, 06:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
I've said before and I'll say it again: these are pretty wimpy sky pirates. It's explicable in that they previously probably just had to stand around and look impressed while Julio did all the actual heroics, but if one giant attack is this problematic, they should just become legitimate traders.
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2017-01-09, 06:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
For as we all know, criminals are... A superstitious, cowardly lot! They plan and plot, but they always get caught! Their evil schemes all come to naught! A superstitious, cowardly lot!
Man, that show was great.
Wimpy sky pirates, who have no problem yelling at and attacking Frost Giants who board their ship, who have no problem continuing to carry the Order so long as they're paid, who have no problem flying through the pass.... except for the chief mechanic, who is mostly just railing against the acting captain.
They may not be able to handle martial combat with Frost Giants, but they're clearly willing to try.Last edited by Peelee; 2017-01-09 at 06:15 PM.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2017-01-09, 06:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
I don't think the pirates are actually wimpy. (Even Andi--I think "this is too dangerous!" is the excuse, just like "we're not a ferry service!" was the excuse when she protested the Order's presence onboard, and "I should be Captain!" is the reason.)
I do, however, observe that people's defenses of their hypothetical desire to give up keep amounting to saying that they shouldn't be more used to danger than the average store clerk.Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2017-01-09, 06:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
Most of what I've read about Bligh, has suggested that his main flaw was not getting on well with his junior officers - as is suggested here:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/TheBounty
his mutinies might have been to do with him not being strict enough (for the era) - rather than being too strict.Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
New Marut Avatar by Linkele
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2017-01-09, 06:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
Well that can't be good.
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2017-01-09, 06:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
people dont seem to get the Mechane is literally against an entire army of frost giants including there most powerful elite here, they are massively outnumbered in the middle of enemy territory
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2017-01-09, 06:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
Great comic, although I might be a little slow to the draw for that comment.
Also, I didn't know that the nameless redshirts had such fine beards.I'm a Lawful Good Human PaladinJustice and honor are a heavy burden for the righteous. We carry this weight so that the weak may grow strong and the meek grow brave
— The Acts of Iomedae, Pathfinder
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2017-01-09, 06:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
They aren't on a pirate ship though, are they? They are on a warship now, under a captain they didn't sign up for, fighting for a cause they did not agree to. Nothing in there suggests Bandana has the moral authority to take their agency and risk their lives against their will.
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2017-01-09, 06:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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2017-01-09, 06:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
Concluded: The Stick Awards II: Second Edition
Ongoing: OOTS by Page Count
Coming Soon: OOTS by Final Post Count II: The Post Counts Always Chart Twice
Coming Later: The Stick Awards III: The Search for More Votes
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2017-01-09, 06:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
Well, if all you've got to do to be the captain is whack the previous captain on the back of the head, it seems to me that the Order's choice of actions should be fairly clear.
"Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein
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2017-01-09, 06:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2016
Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
They are under the duly appointed first mate of the captain they signed up for, wherein the latter put the former in charge as per his authority as the owner of the ship. A pirate ship is a warship, just one that picks on targets of economic opportunity rather than other warships.
If they're just going to be in favour of the chain of command when it suits them, then Julio should be seeing about hiring a more loyal crew at the first opportunity, assuming the Mechane itself survives.
Don't get me wrong, Andi and the crew still have every right to perpetrate such a mutiny, but the longer it continues, the less concerned I will be when they eventually crash into a mountain, lose their ship, and get picked off one-by-one by the unfriendly neighbourhood frost giants.I prepared Explosive Runes before writing this signature.
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2017-01-09, 07:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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- Oregon, USA
Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
I wonder if they'll refund Roy's money, since they seemed fine with the mission Bandana put them on after each crew member was paid 200gp.
FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2017-01-09, 07:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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2017-01-09, 07:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
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2017-01-09, 07:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
While I'm certainly not about to claim Andi's in the right here, we need to remember the circumstances before we pass judgement.
This was, up until the past day or two, supposed to be a simple one-stop transportation detail. This is now the second time in a couple of days that the Mechane has been in very real danger of being brought down (not including the Tarquin fight a couple weeks prior, but that was Julio's call, so I'm not counting it).
Perhaps most importantly, their crewmates have died, which (to my memory, anyway) has not happened on-screen before. Being badass lovable rogues is, surprisingly, a relatively low-risk job as far as fantasy tropes go. At worst, you have a close shave, lose the loot, MAYBE have to leave loved ones behind. Going from charming cartoon pirates to having your friends literally bisected is... a jarring shift, to say the least. Judging by how stunned Bandana, Andi, and the pilot were when it happened, I think it's reasonable to say this doesn't happen a whole lot. They went to bed last night in the 60's Batman show and woke up in The Dark Knight, basically.
And for what? What they consider to be a Once-An-Episode Generic Doomsday Plot? For 200 gp per person?
Under the circumstances, I don't think Andi's actions are unreasonable. Poorly thought through, no question. But I think, if most of us were in her most likely neutral, not particularly high-level, horrific odds-facing shoes, we'd probably be having second thoughts. Assuming we're thinking reasonably at all and not being in full flight-or-fight mode.
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2017-01-09, 07:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
Thanks. I know I am in the minority for distinguishing between soft targets such as pirates usually go after abd suicide missions against frost giants, so I appreciate the insult.
Imagine you got a job at Wallmart, and your boss quiy and made one of your fellow employees the new boss. Then they informed you your job is now going to be to drive a car for a decent amount of money delivering pizza. You agree, due largely to your loyalty to the original boss. Then several of you get shot and you find out you are delivering cocaine, but your boss refuses to let you quit despite you having agreed to a totally different job under a different leader.
That is the scenario we are in now, and my vomment was directed at a person calling for the deaths of the crew for finally driving away from the cocaine drop zone rather than die.
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2017-01-09, 07:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
Re: OOTS #1062 - The Discussion Thread
im sure the empire of blood is happy to be considered a "soft target" they are already used to Julio using them to launch an assault against a powerful empire to rescue a complete stranger purely to laugh in the face of a powerful dictator
i wonder how many people died during those raids?
That is the scenario we are in now, and my vomment was directed at a person calling for the deaths of the crew for finally driving away from the cocaine drop zone rather than die.
for no payLast edited by Forikroder; 2017-01-09 at 07:40 PM.