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  1. - Top - End - #271
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVIII: This is Heresy!

    Pretty quiet around here...hope we'll get Strigon's next judgement today to enliven things up a little
    VC XV, The horsemen are drawing nearer: The Alien and the Omen (part 1 and part 2).
    VC XVI, Burn baby burn:Nero
    VC XVIII, This is Heresy! Torquemada
    VC XX, Elder Evil: Henry Bowyer

    And a repository of deliciously absurd sentences produced by maddened optimisers in my extended signature

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVIII: This is Heresy!

    Well, you`ll get my "leftover" judgements at the weekend, if that helps. ;)
    A neutron walks into a bar and says, “How much for a beer?” The bartender says, “For you? No charge.”


    Later: An atom walks into a bar an asks the bartender “Have you seen an electron? I left it in here last night.” The bartender says, “Are you sure?” The atom says, “I’m positive.”

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVIII: This is Heresy!

    Quote Originally Posted by remetagross View Post
    Pretty quiet around here...hope we'll get Strigon's next judgement today to enliven things up a little
    Ask, my friend, and ye shall recieve.

    Spoiler: Torquemada
    Show
    Elegance:
    Spoiler
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    Let's start simple; simple class progression, they all blend together, race fits the character concept nicely, and even the fluff works - I appreciate the time you've taken to justify mechanically how he didn't notice his fall. I was initially worried about the combination of Rogue and Paladin, but upon further reading in the SI prestige class, it's apparently fairly common. I can't think why I wouldn't give a 5 here.


    Power:
    Spoiler
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    Well, as you freely admit, he's not super powerful on his own. Sure, he has some tankiness to him, those RHD give him some nice survivability, but he's most powerful when he's flanking, and kind of middle-of-the-road any other time. Now, that's fine of course; everyone has a role they fit best into, but I did say that I'd be looking for weaknesses. And while reliance on flanking isn't exactly kryptonite, it's still not too hard to take advantage of. All in all, a 3.75. Quite comfortable in his chosen role, merely competent elsewhere.


    Originality:
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    First off, the class choices. I don't think blackguard is a shock for this theme - maybe a bit because of how low-OP it is, but for fluff it's pretty obvious. The Inquisitor bit I haven't seen much of, but it's almost built for Blackguard, so neither original nor tired, in my eyes. The rogue dip for Inquisitor is absolutely textbook, as far as that prestige class goes. The fallen angel bit is a tale as old as time, although maybe not as common as it could be. What's interesting is that he hasn't noticed he's fallen. The whole bit of "being the villain the world needs" is a bit more common, literally not noticing when you've fallen is kind of new. 3.5, I think. Nothing screams "innovation" to me, but there are a couple interesting tidbits.

    Update: Mask of Gentility's pretty interesting, and it merits a total score of 3.75.


    Memorable Villainy:
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    Well, a lot of this is much the same as originality, so I won't repeat it, but you've got one interesting thing going for you.
    He does an about-face pretty far into the build, which means there's plenty of opportunity for the players to interact with him while he's on their side. Chances are, too, that they'll appreciate some of his cavalier attitudes towards the removal of evil. I think a lot of your write-ups assume an awful lot of very specific reactions on the part of the PC's, but the point is that they might not see this coming. Having a traitor isn't uncommon, but I feel like a trusted ally turning to Evil isn't done often enough. Depending on how things go down, this could be a tragic story, and tragedy is memorable.
    4.5.

    Total score: 16.75!

    Update: Total score is now 17.00
    Last edited by Strigon; 2017-02-15 at 09:15 PM.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVIII: This is Heresy!

    All hail the mighty Strigon! One only has to ask, and one shall receive.
    Last edited by remetagross; 2017-02-15 at 04:58 PM.
    VC XV, The horsemen are drawing nearer: The Alien and the Omen (part 1 and part 2).
    VC XVI, Burn baby burn:Nero
    VC XVIII, This is Heresy! Torquemada
    VC XX, Elder Evil: Henry Bowyer

    And a repository of deliciously absurd sentences produced by maddened optimisers in my extended signature

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVIII: This is Heresy!

    Quote Originally Posted by remetagross View Post
    All hail the mighty Strigon! One only has to ask, and one shall receive.
    This would look very good on my sig...

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVIII: This is Heresy!

    Please make it so
    VC XV, The horsemen are drawing nearer: The Alien and the Omen (part 1 and part 2).
    VC XVI, Burn baby burn:Nero
    VC XVIII, This is Heresy! Torquemada
    VC XX, Elder Evil: Henry Bowyer

    And a repository of deliciously absurd sentences produced by maddened optimisers in my extended signature

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    Exclamation Re: Villainous Competition XVIII: This is Heresy!

    Disputes part seven.

    Quote Originally Posted by Torquemada
    Hello, Strigon!

    First off, thank you for taking the time to judge no less than ten builds, and to handle the inevitable disputes that come after! Speaking of which, here is mine, about my villain Torquemada

    Elegance:
    Well...glad you liked it

    Power:
    I won't lie, I'm mostly in agreement with your analysis. At the end of the day, combat-wise, Torquemada is a frontline fighter with flanking tactics. I can't, in all honesty, try to milk more point for this not so powerful combat ability. I will simply point out that Torquemada's area of competence is, however, not limited to combat. His high Diplomacy modifier goes a long way towards minionmancy and setting up challenging social encounters. His Disguise modifier, the fact that any Knowledge: the Planes check will reveal that Archons are being of intrinsic Good and Law, and his build geared towards making it difficult to prove otherwise also help him sail through the NPC world even after he has fallen.
    Another area in which Torquemada fares well is his slipperiness. In an encounter when the PCs have to pin him down and drag him back to justice while Torquemada attempts to flee, the Archon proves capable. At-will Teleport, extraordinary flight, immunity to mental control, very high saves against debuffs like poison or fear effects, Travel Devotion. Potentially, mobs of Diplomanced peasants that rush to the PCs to stop them. This is the kind of encounter a DM only runs once against a particular villain, but Torquemada will excel at that one.

    Originality:
    Fair enough here too. I knew I would not be aiming for a 5 when I settled on this build. Still, have you noticed how I made the Rogue dip as elegant and thematic as possible by picking the Antiquarian ACF, as to give a divine feel to it? In addition, Torquemada does have a few ranks in Knowledge: Religion to make good use of it. I was also particularly proud of the Mask of Gentility feat. Getting an Ex way to hide my alignment was exactly what I wanted and what this feat achieved, and I found it was a very novel way to achieve this aim (rather than a continuous item of Hide Alignment, etc): I had never ever heard of that feat before.

    Memorability:
    Yes, I have to admit that the backstory I wrote is rather frontloaded on seemingly railroading the PCs. But I agree that this won't prevent Torquemada from being a gripping, heart-wrenching fallen Archon

    Saying that someone reading RAW differently than you is "home brewing or house ruling, but that's fine" doesn't make you right, it just makes you seem pompous.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVIII: This is Heresy!

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    Disputes part seven.
    See, you call this a dispute, but I can't see anything remotely disputatious
    However, you did direct my attention to a couple elements of your build that I didn't directly touch on in my judging, so for the sake of open communication, I'll talk about them.

    Spoiler: Power & Competence
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    I didn't mention your OOC utility, and perhaps that was unfair, but that's mostly because it didn't particularly affect my score. There's a reason for this; while utility is helpful, the types you chose for this character - to my mind - are hindered by the fact that he's not really a villain until, at least, CR 16.
    As for diplomacy, I find there are 2 types; "reasonable" diplomacy, and "cheesy" diplomacy. You're firmly in the first camp, where you have significant skill, but not the resources invested to do silly things. And by the time it becomes relevant to the PC's, you're quite a high level - so significant allies that can be diplomancied into joining your cause are limited. Not nonexistant, but considering he's a heretic of the faith, and still annihilating evil wherever he finds it, 2 of the major players (celestials and infernals) are more or less removed from the equation. His list of allies grows thin.
    He can talk a whole village into cheering his name and dying for him, but how much is that really going to slow down high-level characters? I feel like any real threats who could back him up would have to be placed there by DM fiat. That's not a problem; it would only help the game, but I don't feel comfortable giving points for something that requires such intervention to work properly.


    Likewise, he's a wily one, no doubt, as beatsticks go. But being slippery like that only really helps make a recurring villain, and as mentioned before, since he only becomes a villain near the end of a campaign, it becomes less helpful than it would on, for example, a CR 5 villain. You get what I'm saying?


    Spoiler: Originality
    Show
    I do like the antiquarian rogue. In part because I just like that word, admittedly, but also because it fits thematically. But you did get a 5 in elegance, so I can hardly improve on that, no matter how much I like it!

    Likewise, your admittedly clever way of hiding your alignment is nice. Is it worth extra originality, though, that's the question. On the one hand, I don't know how much it affects the campaign beyond fluff. A neat way for him to be in denial, and make it a little bit harder for the PCs to turn people against him, but how much will it affect the grand scheme of the story? I suspect not too much.
    On the other hand, it definitely took some digging, I've certainly never seen it before, and the category is Originality, not "Originality and usefulness of original content".

    I'll give +0.25 here. It is new, but it's just a feat. Really, beyond the legwork it took to find it, there isn't much "original" about it; you're doing exactly what the item is designed for, so I can't exactly say it's a stroke of genius.


    Total: +0.25
    Total score: 17.00
    Last edited by Strigon; 2017-02-15 at 09:13 PM. Reason: Mask of gentility is a feat, genius.
    That's all I can think of, at any rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by remetagross View Post
    All hail the mighty Strigon! One only has to ask, and one shall receive.

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    Exclamation Re: Villainous Competition XVIII: This is Heresy!

    Disputes part eight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Camellia
    For Strigon:

    thanks for judging and your kind words. I am a little late to the dispute festival ;) Of course you can use Camellia if you want to. Credit would be appreciated :D
    This is also more clarification than dispute:

    About urban druid:
    This obviously got lost in my (endless) write up. The origin of the forbidden grove is an old temple of Chauntea which is so old it got outgrown by a city and is now underground. I initially had a backstory where Camellia served as a helper to the local cleric before taking over. I did cut it because of the length of my entry. Moreover I liked the idea of a petal caring about flowers in town. I think in DnD towns have quite a lot of flowers and probably even meadows.


    About the divine meat up:
    You are right about that. What I can argue is, that Chauntea doesn't strike as an especially vengeful godess. What if she did actually send someone to try to correct Camellia on her false beliefs and Camellia simply bolted or convinced that being that she had no ill intent? I know this isn't in the write up either, but I don't think it is a deal breaker for the build.

    Saying that someone reading RAW differently than you is "home brewing or house ruling, but that's fine" doesn't make you right, it just makes you seem pompous.

  10. - Top - End - #280
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVIII: This is Heresy!

    Dear chairman, what are we aiming at as a theme for next round's comp?

    If I remember correctly, the ooze theme is still running around, even if nobody really likes it.

    I have an idea: the Politician. The villain would be a high-ranking noble or civil servant, or even the King himself. What makes him powerful is that he wields law against the PCs. I was actually thinking of Lord Kubota of OotS. This kind of villain is more or less immune to brute force, unless the PCs agree to turn evil and face pursuits for murder. The villain is well-esteemed in the city and wields considerable influence over government. As such, he perpetually acts just on the fringes of what is legal, and is never pinned down for his exactions; not only does he perfectly know the rules, but also the judges would not dare suing such a respectable member of society who is well-known to be a benevolent politician.

    Look at how Elan feels powerless before Kubota in this strip. That is because he does not know how to face such an ennemy: never before has the Order had to face such an opponent. And if Vaarsuvius, in one of their dark moments, had not Disintegrated him, well Kubota could actually have kept plotting against Hinjo.

    The PCs would need a heavy emphasis on social skills, divination powers to gather evidence, stealth and Charisma, rather than brute force. Since such a villain would stand for a very different challenge than what the Villainous Competition usually offers, we could, just as was the case for the Double Agent round, switch the Power category to Subtlety, or make it clear that Power means something different in this round. By the way, I checked that Double Agent round, but nobody came up with a politician villain, so there wouldn't be a thematic spillover.
    VC XV, The horsemen are drawing nearer: The Alien and the Omen (part 1 and part 2).
    VC XVI, Burn baby burn:Nero
    VC XVIII, This is Heresy! Torquemada
    VC XX, Elder Evil: Henry Bowyer

    And a repository of deliciously absurd sentences produced by maddened optimisers in my extended signature

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVIII: This is Heresy!

    I'm going to support the Ooze theme, just so we can get it out of the way. Who knows, we may actually get something interesting and at least it'll stop coming up in 'Suggestions for next round' every round.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVIII: This is Heresy!

    Provided we give a broad enough definition of how much ooze-related the villain has to be (ie more than just having the Ooze type), that can actually work out pretty great I think.
    VC XV, The horsemen are drawing nearer: The Alien and the Omen (part 1 and part 2).
    VC XVI, Burn baby burn:Nero
    VC XVIII, This is Heresy! Torquemada
    VC XX, Elder Evil: Henry Bowyer

    And a repository of deliciously absurd sentences produced by maddened optimisers in my extended signature

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVIII: This is Heresy!

    Yes, I'm definitely not in favour of limiting it to the Ooze type only. Otherwise we'd just get a horde of Sentry Oozes.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVIII: This is Heresy!

    Also in with Ooze Based. Had some fune creative build with this before Myth weavers fell.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVIII: This is Heresy!

    Vizzini would strike so hard though
    VC XV, The horsemen are drawing nearer: The Alien and the Omen (part 1 and part 2).
    VC XVI, Burn baby burn:Nero
    VC XVIII, This is Heresy! Torquemada
    VC XX, Elder Evil: Henry Bowyer

    And a repository of deliciously absurd sentences produced by maddened optimisers in my extended signature

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVIII: This is Heresy!

    Finally getting to this, sorry it took a while!

    @ Torquemada

    Alright, lets get to this nitty gritty.

    That first comment about rogue being out of place? Yea, just go ahead and ignore that bit. (again, I do stupid things sometimes when I don't sleep).

    For possible resources, you did well on a way to not discriminate between turn and rebuke. I do still wince a bit at travel devotion, but you make a good point on how you did it in perhaps the most elegant and flavorful way possible.

    Yup. Typos exist. Moving on.

    I somehow totally glanced the malconvoker bit (probably the same way I glanced needing SA).

    Okay, so you found a stone floating somewhere in the infinity of space so that you could double up on a class feature, that way you didn't notice you didn't have it when it was gone. Sounds like a Wax Fang song... Idk. That one feels a little dirtier than the others. Not like a cheap kind of dirty, but not exactly sitting well.

    I'm glad you could see my point on his official fall. I do agree, the moment it actually happens, and he embraces that moment, that is definitely a better sweet spot. It also gives for that story build up, ya know? He could have been an ally all the way up to this one. Perhaps begrudging ally, but still helpful. Then we have that dramatic music, drop the mic moment of him finally accepting it. Then you get that last 2 cr as the transformation is complete, less statistically, but more as he embraces the darkness. Its like our little winged friend is all grown up!

    Those are two powerful words. "Prove it." That is the general foundation of many law systems. Can you prove beyond a doubt that this person did the thing you say? Is this person a menace? If not, he walks out and gets to do it again. In my opinion, it is a filthy system, one that could use a touch of tyranny thrown in. But for those who can manipulate it, its perfect. For Torque', its perfect. The law is on his side, and he freaking knows it. I'm glad you understand that point, because it might be one of the biggest ones you can make when running a villain like this.

    Overall, based on what is presented here, for the rogue thing I can see a quarter, as well as travel devotion, the malconvoker, and the official change of alignment. That said, I do feel a little less comfortable with the touchstone than I originally did, but as I said before, I weigh in favor of students, and you guys are in the same boat: if there is a grading mistake in your favor, keep it. So you got a full point there, no negatives.

    For the biggest thing of all: if you could play this guy well, let him be the constant angel on a party's shoulders, and he eventually became the big bad, with literally the entirety of law on his side? That's the difference. He isn't an outcast angel. He isn't a demon or devil in the making. He still is what he originally was created for: He is Torquemada. He is Law, and the bringer of Law. That alone changes things significantly, in my mind.

    You got your 1 for all the points, but take another, because I am a sucker for the eyes swung wide open moments. The mind screwery. For this guy, it works.

    Torquemada's score is currently set to a 17.0. Enjoy.

    @ Gaspar

    Alright, little buddy. Your turn!

    Well, first off, I feel I was a bit hard on the Cha SAD deal. Especially considering what I found about needing that SA. You didn't want to go straight in with rogue, wanted some flavor. I get that. I still think it does feel out of place, considering the backstory blurb and how it didn't really mention anything other than being a pick pocket.

    So, I am going to throw out the bit about disliking the start of the build. I still dislike you did a single level dip there, and still question it being spellthief. However, you are going to get some love back on it, in originality and elegance. I'm comfortable with half a point to each.

    So we can have him sitting at 12.75.

    @ Silverblood

    Alright, lets get past the chit chat and into the meat of this.

    Don't sweat it, I eventually got through all the table. It wasn't bad when I got my glasses.

    You are correct on GSF. The biggest reason I knock it is because there isn't a day that passes that we have an argument with the resident forum troll about who can and can't use it, why its OP, and so on and so forth. I'm so tired of that stupid spell, I can't even find the right words for it. And it isn't half a point for snapkick. Its .25 for it, another .25 for GSF.

    Man, I like that you can eventually get to shape shift, but that is a dirty conversation to have with a DM at a table, ya know? "Can I eventually get it if I take a 20? Then I do that." Just my 2 cents on the matter.

    Gotcha on the god's work bit. Honestly, I'm far more familiar with 4e dragonborn, and they are like night and day compared to 3e. I mean, on one hand you have a nomadic, honor driven barbarian society that has glimpses of memories of their long lost civilization, and on the other you have super devout people who turn into dragons so they can dragon with the dragon, and dragon dragon. Like I said, night and day. But that is just an aside. What is important here is how that fits in with the story of it, and how dragon your dragon is going to be. Reading what you got again, and what you said, it does feel less forced.

    ... Dragon.

    Yea, I already had all that measured in for power. Sorry if that wasn't too clear.

    Yea, sure. I actually hate giving out perfect scores. I'm of the mind set that everything can be improved on, but I also understand to do that, something else is likely to suffer. You did alot of good here, and it really shows, not just by my score, but how much time and effort and love that you have presented here. This thing is glorious, and I enjoy it greatly. As a bit of exhibition, I was playing online with my friends on and off between judging, and I was telling them about all the builds. Yes, all of them, I didn't discriminate. The amount of roaring laughter I got when I was explaining the concept of "were-battletitan" was amazing. I'm not the only one who is going to remember this guy. I promise you that.

    You'll be getting 1 extra dragon to your elegant dragon score for the dragon god. 17 dragons out of 20.

    I'm actually hoping by the end of this that the word dragon loses all meaning...

    @ Thurbane

    Don't sweat it, formatting does silly things sometimes. Just roll with it, us judges will figure it out eventually!

    For the sake of not flipping back and forth, I'm going to repost all my scores here. I'm starting to get a little lost myself!

    Tahlessrail 13.25
    Darkpaw 15.25
    Camellia 17.5
    Valentine 7.0
    Zojan 13.5
    Kappikyrie 14.0
    Silverblood Knight 17.0
    Torquemada 17.0
    Gareth 16
    Gaspar 12.75

    Everything good? Did I forget any disputes?

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVIII: This is Heresy!

    Quote Originally Posted by D&DPrinceTandem View Post
    Had some fune creative build with this before Myth weavers fell.
    Wait...what?
    EDIT: I did check my old character sheets, and they all seem fine. Those that were using the old format got converted, but that's it.
    Last edited by ben-zayb; 2017-02-16 at 05:07 PM.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVIII: This is Heresy!

    You're more lucky than most :)
    VC XV, The horsemen are drawing nearer: The Alien and the Omen (part 1 and part 2).
    VC XVI, Burn baby burn:Nero
    VC XVIII, This is Heresy! Torquemada
    VC XX, Elder Evil: Henry Bowyer

    And a repository of deliciously absurd sentences produced by maddened optimisers in my extended signature

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVIII: This is Heresy!

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    Disputes part eight.
    Interesting...
    I still can't find any direct claims on the temple being in a city, only that it's in a cave. Still, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt here; why else would you go through the Urban Druid class? Petal + Urban Druid makes sense for your concept; I wouldn't have chosen it, but that's not because I think it's a bad choice. That's worth bumping up your Elegance, in my eyes.

    Now, secondly, the divine meet-up... I simply can't agree with you here; not fully, at least. Now, let's not use the words "deal-breaker" here; you've still got a really high score!
    No matter how nice Chauntea is, let's be frank; Camelia is a murderer. A serial killer. She isn't doing minor blasphemies that a Good goddess would nudge her from, she's slaughtering people to use in her garden. Now, maybe she would get a warning, but I can't help but feel like it would be entirely peaceful if she refused to stop, or that if it were it should reasonably count for the Prestige Class. It could be made to happen, certainly, but I don't know that I'd call it a logical step. I don't think I'll change Elegance for this one, sorry.

    Total score: +0.5

    Edit: Nightmarish day today. I'll do the last 2 builds tomorrow!
    Last edited by Strigon; 2017-02-16 at 05:41 PM.
    That's all I can think of, at any rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by remetagross View Post
    All hail the mighty Strigon! One only has to ask, and one shall receive.

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    Thumbs up Re: Villainous Competition XVIII: This is Heresy!

    Quote Originally Posted by remetagross View Post
    Dear chairman, what are we aiming at as a theme for next round's comp?
    I have a couple of ideas in mind from those previously discussed and requested.

    We will definitely be doing Ooze at some point, to get it over and done with - some people seem to love the idea, others seem to loathe it. I don't think I'd put Ooze type as a req, as that would be too restrictive (although there are a few Intelligent oozes out there)...

    Saying that someone reading RAW differently than you is "home brewing or house ruling, but that's fine" doesn't make you right, it just makes you seem pompous.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVIII: This is Heresy!

    And how about my Politician idea, what do you guys make of it? Worth adding to the list? Too specific or different from what we usually do? Not thematic enough?
    VC XV, The horsemen are drawing nearer: The Alien and the Omen (part 1 and part 2).
    VC XVI, Burn baby burn:Nero
    VC XVIII, This is Heresy! Torquemada
    VC XX, Elder Evil: Henry Bowyer

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVIII: This is Heresy!

    I think the idea has merit, but calling it "politician" might be asking for some trouble/real world comparisons.

    I certainly like the idea of an evil agent of some sort of governmental power. I think having to work with subtlety instead of brute force combat could be a welcome change.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVIII: This is Heresy!

    Obligatory idea plugging from last thread:

    I hope this isn't rude, but my phone crashed when I was trying to put a reply on the Villainous Competition XIII yesterday and everything went poof in a digital cloud of smoke. Soooo... here's what I originally tried to post.

    ●The Lone Wolf

    More allies means less for you. This type of BBEG focuses on being able to do everything by themselves, at least when it comes to fighting the heroes. Bonus points if your creation is able to react to many situations without simply being massively overpowered. Spells like Animate Dead or Summon Planar Ally are banned, as are feats like Command Undead.

    ●Evil Enemy Enhancer

    No need to dirty your hands when your minions can do it for you - albeit not without a little help. Instead of joining their henchmen on the frontline, these villains use buffs, debuffs, status effects, or other crowd control abilities to stack the odds in their favor.

    ●Catch Me If You Can

    Too many evil overlords have fallen due to their supposingly "invulnerable" defenses being crumpled like tinfoil - but even the forces of good are useless if the heroes can't even lay a finger on you. Illusion decoys, teleportation spams, ridiculously high Reflex Saves - this form of baddies is based on the fact that all the BAB in the world is worth diddly squat if you don't get hit in the first place.

    ●Yin-Yang Bomber

    Why stay on one end of the spectrum when you can use both? The selling point of the Yin-Yang Bomber is that he/she can use abilities that are polar opposites of each other, such as creation and destruction, light and darkness, or life and death. Bonus points if one power alone has weaknesses, but having both cancels them out(to a certain extent).
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVIII: This is Heresy!

    The first one is pretty terrible due to action economy forcing either a caster or well known Alter Self/Shapechange forms completely directing the course of what creature to take.

    I like the politician.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVIII: This is Heresy!

    Yeesh, no need to metaphorically bite my head off. Then are the others so-so or are you just ignoring them because they don't even deserve mentioning? I mean, they're just concepts I came up with before I had much expertise in how 3.5 works, so I can understand if they suck, I guess.

    I hope this idea is better; Partners in Crime. Basically a two-villain tag team designed to fight together.

    Also, this song sounds like a good theme song for this series of comps in general.
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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVIII: This is Heresy!

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    Yeesh, no need to metaphorically bite my head off. Then are the others so-so or are you just ignoring them because they don't even deserve mentioning? I mean, they're just concepts I came up with before I had much expertise in how 3.5 works, so I can understand if they suck, I guess.

    I hope this idea is better; Partners in Crime. Basically a two-villain tag team designed to fight together.

    Also, this song sounds like a good theme song for this series of comps in general.
    I don't think your head was really bitten off; the response was direct, but not particularly mean or abrasive.
    It's been almost unanimously decided that 2 villains is not a good idea, simply because it effectively doubles judging work.

    Although I would like to ask why two separate builds are allowed, but one build with two villains is not; where is the functional difference? Sure, there's a bit more work in deciding how they interact with one another, but it's somewhat tempered by the fact that there's only one originality/memorability score.
    That's all I can think of, at any rate.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVIII: This is Heresy!

    Quote Originally Posted by Strigon View Post
    I don't think your head was really bitten off; the response was direct, but not particularly mean or abrasive.
    It's been almost unanimously decided that 2 villains is not a good idea, simply because it effectively doubles judging work.

    Although I would like to ask why two separate builds are allowed, but one build with two villains is not; where is the functional difference? Sure, there's a bit more work in deciding how they interact with one another, but it's somewhat tempered by the fact that there's only one originality/memorability score.
    Idk, maybe because not everyone submits two builds or something?

    Also how are the songs? The second one seems like an okay one for villain comps in general.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strigon View Post
    I don't think your head was really bitten off; the response was direct, but not particularly mean or abrasive.
    It's been almost unanimously decided that 2 villains is not a good idea, simply because it effectively doubles judging work.

    Although I would like to ask why two separate builds are allowed, but one build with two villains is not; where is the functional difference? Sure, there's a bit more work in deciding how they interact with one another, but it's somewhat tempered by the fact that there's only one originality/memorability score.
    Why don't we just shove those tag teamers into the same body and repitch the "Two heads are better than one" theme.

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    Default Re: Villainous Competition XVIII: This is Heresy!

    Quote Originally Posted by daremetoidareyo View Post
    Why don't we just shove those tag teamers into the same body and repitch the "Two heads are better than one" theme.
    The difference between the two is one build with two heads vs. two seperate villains working together.

    But the multi-headed comp is still a good idea too I guess.
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    Exclamation Re: Villainous Competition XVIII: This is Heresy!

    Disputes part nine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaspar Macoute -Buufreak
    On the blink shirt: The blink shirt does not grant a miss chance, it grants the ability to teleport 10 feet as by dimension door as a standard action. It's a meld for certain kinds of movement about the battlefield, moving past locked doors, and utility.

    On the Drakkensteed mount: It's not a feat, it's an alternative class feature. It simply trades your horse in for a mount with some flight. It's a trade-in, not a sacrifice, so there's no "resources down the drain" as it would be if I burnt a feat on it.

    On Aura of Despair: Blackguard does have some spells that call for saving throws, such as Blade of Pain and Fear, Investiture of the Erinyes, and Investiture of the Orthon, so it's more than just poison.

    On Memorability: As explained in my playtips in CR breakdowns, the main memorability of this build is intended not to come solely from one dramatic fight from the PCs, but from seeing the decline as an ally turns to an enemy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kappikyrie
    Buufreak

    Notes: I know nothing about how to construct old norse words but valkyrie comes from Old Norse Valkyrja, literally ‘chooser of the slain,’ from valr ‘the slain’ + kyrja ‘chooser.’ So I used this online guide: http://www.vikingsofbjornstad.com/Ol...onary_E2N.shtm and removed the “slain” part and replaced it with kappi for “hero.” Chooser of heroes…to kill and send to ysgard. This idea, that a valkyrie would leave normal fate alone and instead kill off powerful potential allies to drag to ysgard is heretical to odin’s values…except that Odin was not a paragon of perfection in many of his dealings and this is the sort of underhanded ace in the pocket that Odin would totally let slide but lambast rhetorically at any opportunity if mythology serves us as an example.

    Elegance: The feats that are immutable are twf and improved twf, because those are bonus feats, and believe me, if I could have switched them for better stuff, I would have. The other feats are racial hit dice feats, which traditionally are mutable for character design purposes of this competition. I asked this exact question in the thread and received this as an answer: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...7&postcount=74

    The Jaezred Chaulssin is a guild. That guild is built on assassinating powerful Drow figures to bring about end of underground evil elf society. Because it is a guild, it has a “favored in guild” benefit. Favored in guild is a feat from Dungeon Master's Guide II, p. 227. So taking that feat opens up the guild benefit. +4 to fort save DCs is awesome and necessary for an assassin that wants to kill martial fighters. The idea of a Drow society of assassins lesser planar allying a valkyrie to slay off enemies was fun and made sense to me, but man did I get dinged on this from several judges.

    Gear: in a greater flyby attack, you get one attack roll to affect up to 9 or 10 opponents. Having an array of weapons for an outsider who doesn’t really care about material wealth, just killing strong people, it seemed reasonable that they would need to be able to some degree to handle different character types. A handy haversack of weaponry to do just that made any of these passes a devastating affair. Garrote the casters, trip the tanks, etc. I reckoned that gear, oftentimes specialized gear, would be part of a personality trait to kappikyrie that helped to make her memorable, dangerous, and very rewarding if bested. Further, I saw it as an opportunity for savvy PCs to enter into parlay over a possible shared interest. If you don’t like that idea, you don’t like it, so there is no convincing you otherwise.

    Power: Pounce is coming from the racial initiator tiger claw maneuver: pouncing charge. It’s 1/per encounter, so it should be attributed to the primary target of a death attack. That death attack occurs after rounds of opposed spot checks. And I’m counting DC 22 fort saves minus the oil: 10+4 for the guild +5 for int + 3 for assassin class levels at this level. A fighter at CR 13 should have about a +13 to their fort save, which puts the chance of them dying at around 40%ish. And that is if kappikyrie is supposed to be targeting that person and not someone else in the group.

    memorability: Angels are actually a syncretic derivation of valkyries used to help convert Nordic folk to christianity. But, as you’ll see in the description for valkyries, they are CN outsiders. So they do get their hands very dirty indeed! Kappikyrie was not made as an end boss single BBEG. She is a villain who picks off powerful warriors, some of whom may be allies or enemies of the PCs depending on what the DM needs to do with her. She is a “drag and drop” enemy that can show up anywhere, and if PCs decide to track her wake of destruction, she winds up being a high treasure sidequest.




    Strigon

    Notes: copy pasta from buufreak’s response: I know nothing about how to construct old norse words but valkyrie comes from Old Norse Valkyrja, literally ‘chooser of the slain,’ from valr ‘the slain’ + kyrja ‘chooser.’ So I used this online guide: http://www.vikingsofbjornstad.com/Ol...onary_E2N.shtm and removed the “slain” part and replaced it with kappi for “hero.” Chooser of heroes…to kill and send to ysgard. This idea, that a valkyrie would leave normal fate alone and instead kill off powerful potential allies to drag to ysgard is heretical to odin’s values…except that Odin was not a paragon of perfection in many of his dealings and this is the sort of underhanded ace in the pocket that Odin would totally let slide but lambast rhetorically at any opportunity if mythology serves us as an example.

    Elegance: Favored in guild is a feat from Dungeon Master's Guide II, p. 227. Dragonblood is not a necessary prerequisite to join the guild. And a powerful outsider all about killing powerful enemies of any alignment seems like they would be routinely summoned by the guild enough to pick up the favored in guild benefit. Plus, if I know Drow counterculture murdercults, they would love the irony of a lolthblood being choosing the slay her favorite minions.

    I also can't say I approve of your combat tactics, combined with race and motivation. Valkyries are all about martial prowess, your skill. Having one collect souls for Odin makes sense. Having one get a little too into that duty is also cool. Making her an assassin? I can't see it. Being sneaky seems to me to completely undermine her motivation, especially since she has no real way of telling how powerful someone is without fighting them properly. It just seems out of place, is all.
    Here is where the true heresy lies. Kappikyrie doesn’t choose to battle an opponent at their best or even while they can defend themselves. She is anti-honorable if anything. Besides proactively killing her opponents as a deviation from valkyrie norms, she’ll poison them, trap them, or herd them into a planar breach in their sleep. This deviation from her ilk’s behaviors sets her apart and was built in that way on purpose.

    She does have a real way of telling how powerful someone is.

    Memorable Villainy:
    While I disagree that ragnarok has to be imminent for kappikyrie to slaying her way across the land, it would be a pretty amazing campaign to set her in. She might wind up being more ally than villain in that one though…unless they souls that she collects make an insurgency…and PCs have to stop her from collecting the tarrasque or something like that…

    Having ragnarok far in the distance and her being all kinds of underhanded makes all the murder of great personas all that much more...seemingly pointless. Which is a fun emotional timbre to make music with.

    Saying that someone reading RAW differently than you is "home brewing or house ruling, but that's fine" doesn't make you right, it just makes you seem pompous.

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