Necro World

[Keeg]

There's a post I read about a good-guy-necromancer that I thought would make a really great setting for a dnd campaign I'm starting but was looking for some general advice on it.

I have a backstory but here's the basic premise: Small group of strong good-guy-clerical-necromancers see the tyranny of the land and unjust hierarchy in agrarian based feudalism and essentially raise an army or undead, conquer everything, build churches to an good-god of death and teach people how to animate-dead for agricultural / construction / labor purposes so man can dedicate himself to the finer arts.

Leaders of agriculture, defense, construction / expansion, and conservation are all trained necromancers. Living morgues are built to house the undead when unused. Socially it is expected that upon death their bodies will continue to serve the city. Murder is still highly taboo but so is living to old age with a useless body. Is there a more selfish act? Once the signs of a failing body appear it is expected that one will take their life or go to a morgue and donate themselves. Once a year there is a great festival celebrating the lives of the elderly and a mass-suicide takes place. (I'm thinking walking across an altar, kneeling before a city head, hearing praise, having a quick stab to the heart, and a quick raise.) Walk to your death and walk out a servant of the state.

Cities are full of the smell and sight of the undead. Disease spreads easier now that the dead are falling apart. Cities fill themselves with flowers and have undead-cleaning crews litterally mop up the streets. The finer districts in large cities are made like Venice to just carry away the filth. Food preparation is reserved for the living. And society has adopted pretty extreme hygiene. The living and dead walk together but still separate. An undead will follow the commands of its master until it’s brain deteriorates until it can’t. SO brains are ALWAYS in high demand as they fall apart quickly and new ones make much better servants.
(I'm thinking there would be cool appendage assimilation for cool frankenstein-style specialized zombie folks.

Other things to consider
-Huge discrimination against the physically inept. You’ll be no use dead, you might as well live forever. (and secret envy)
- Likewise it's not entirely useful to study the arcane since that becomes useless once your soul leaves. Like it's fine and people do it, but there was the unintended consequence that relying on the undead would make a need for increasing undead bodies.
-Undead non-humans are just are prevalent. Construction crews wouldn't be the same without a giant/trolls in the mix.
-There are still body needs. A body can be raised purely on magic but can't regenerate to any degree. If they want to stay in good condition undead need, essentially, cleric-mechanics to fix up. I'm thinking appendage assimilation / necrotic healing spells. Injuries are accumulative so wear and tear breaks them down after a while. (to avoid sun-damage most work is done at night)
-Rich folks can buy their own undead servants. OR, just keep papa in the family post-mortem. A symbolic, he used to be the head of household but now he’s a mindless servant.
-Actual resurrection is pretty taboo too. Your body is ours, your soul is yours.

-A city’s affluence is based on its population vs it’s undead population
Inconceivable that is a town is having trouble monetarily or foodwise that the elites wouldn’t engineer a plague to wipe some out?
Similarly, there IS dead flesh around. A lot of it.
-A Necros worth is based on how many he can raise.
And the condition of those raised, mindless goopy monsters, or perfectly preserved snow-whites?
-Annual undead fights between cities. Like Football but grosser. Nothing is decided but bragging rights. Rich cities raise up strong lads and teach them to fight, then kill before the fight so they're in perfect condition. Occasional scandals when a city enters a living contestant pretending to be dad via magics.

Spoiler: Race Relations

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I think traditional DND has a few easy race mechanics too.
Dwarfs - Strong focus on family ties means they'd be less OK with resurrection of their dead. Undead dwarfs would also probably hit too close to home with similarities to druegar or azer. Just bad mojo. Like a "We retreated into our mountains out of a piety to Moradin, it was our vanity that lead us from the surface that let the age of man flourish. That was a mistake!
- Basically have dwarven hunting parties that are all about ending or containing the scourge.

Wood Elfs - pretty distrustful of magic and basically retreat more into the forest not taking the new age seriously. But also [B]very[B] against them turning an elf into a thoughtless slave.
Wild Elfs - Less apprehensive of the use of magic but are disgusted with how it's being used. Youth make a sport out of messing with nearby towns. Arcane archers shoot them from afar and druids make it look like farmers were lost to wild animals.

I think gnomes might be the most diverse. With the forest folks not really liking it but seeing an opportunity to be pranksters. and the fun loving tinker gnomes to pair with the necromancers to fuse metals in with the undead to make cool worker-zombie-cyborgs.

Half Orcs can go both ways too. In cities they are prized more for their strong bodies and possible continued usage of it after death.
But could also be strong shamen and lead full-orcs to a strong devotion to Shargaus (god of darkness, night, thievery, and the undead) or Yurtrus the god of death. Lead roving hordes of orcs, undead, and undead orcs. And the flip side of half-orcs who see their orc side as evil and have a strong resurgence in paladinic ways.

Halflings are known to be pretty passive and adopt local norms. I think they'd dabble in it but never be great undead-masters. Just like, learn a few tricks, carry a bunch of stories about times before the dead-times.

Less accepted races like dragon born and tieflings were predisposed to magics anyways and were never really accepted. I think in a land of undeath it's their time to shine and help out. Dragonborn would be against the idea of raising their own family / clan but others? Totally ok if they had their consent for it or if it was an enemy of the state.

I have a few preliminary ideas for a campaign later but first I want to set the world. Any feedback would be appreciated.

Spoiler: Undead Varients

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Assuming there have been at least 100 years of uninterrupted study in necromancy I think there would be more than just a few types of undead. 5e has a few:

Ghast/Ghoul: Good for stocking around the city in a barracks or longhouse waiting to be needed for defense. Generally kept away from the populace and weather.
Skeletons: super low maintenance. Good for city patrols and watches.
Zombies: the main labor force. Bodies aren't great but they can pull a wagon or till the land.
Warhorse Skeleton: A big horse that can pull wagons and the heavy stuff.
Liches: I suspect that some of the more self-righteous city leaders would make the conversion to lichdom to continue serving the city after death and still keep their oath to the people. likewise with Mummies and Mummy Lords. Perhaps the more educated folks who couldn't go lich went mummy to keep their knowledge around?

Then I think there would just be undead versions of normal monsters. Trolls and Giants to lift heavy things. Ghost might serve a use but I feel like summoning a spirit is wrong while just the body is ok?

Spoiler: Direct things I want help with

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1) Any cool undead mechanics
2) An idea on scale. I think a somewhat isolated continent that cut off major trade with the rest of the world during the 1st undead war. Now folks are going back and spreading rumors around the world about weird AF necromancy. Hence our quest goers come to check it out.
2.5) Also considered putting it in a demi-plane like the demi-plane of dread. Thoughts?
3) Input on race relations. Assume we're running with the 5e pantheon
4) Any cool undead variants or thoughts on if folks should be OK with mummies and liches?
5) GODS. What god would be cool with undead labor? If they aren't evil is divine magic still super effective? Why are they inherently evil?

[Everyl]

I've pondered a similar world concept before, on the basis that creating mindless, non-predatory undead is evil basically just because the book says so. I reached somewhat different conclusions as I pondered the consequences of an undead-friendly society, though. Here are a few issues you might want to consider.

Given that animals can be reanimated and zombies aren't too intelligent, why focus so much on reanimated humans? Zombie draft animals could theoretically work as hard as living ones, without the need of food or rest. And animals reproduce and grow up *much* faster than people, so there should be an ample supply of them. True, reanimated meat is meat that can't be eaten, but an ox that never rests can get a lot of work done hauling, plowing, powering mills, etc. I would expect cattle to be particularly valuable, as females produce milk to feed the living and most males can be used as zombie oxen as soon as they reach maturity (about 2 years of age).

Also, I think there are parallels between the zombie economy and the modern automated economy. The tasks that can be zombified are primarily unskilled labor. Skilled labor is still the domain of the living, and a skilled blacksmith, wheelwright, or merchant is probably worth a lot more alive than dead, even into old age, simply because they can do things that no zombie can (and can pass that knowledge to others as their bodies fail). Unskilled workers, mainly the poorest, would be devalued, as they are worth no more than the value of their bodies on the zombie market even when alive. Society would have a growing gap between those with valuable skills and/or education and those who can be replaced by any old corpse. Dispossessed laborers would be prone to unrest, rebelling against a system that considers them to be not worth the food they consume. I'd expect to see some combination of a large criminal element (where poor people try to get by through smuggling, violence and other illicit means due to a lack of legitimate means of sustaining themselves) and outright rebellions (wherein they try to overthrow the necromancer elites they see as responsible for their suffering).

This could lead to a world like the one you describe, but it basically assumes that the "good" necromancers who conquered everything use their undead army to violently put down rebellions, turning the defeated rebels into more undead soldiers and laborers, repeating the process until there aren't enough dispossessed laborers left to be a threat to the new hierarchy. The short-term glut of undead labor could lead to an economy overly dependent on the undead, which might create undue social pressure on low-skill people to "donate" healthy bodies to the church. I still think that would lead to a boom in draft animal zombies, though, as a 2-year-old ox is better for many zombie-labor tasks than a human of any age. I could definitely see human zombie servants as being a sign of status and prestige, though, if only because their relative scarcity would make them more expensive than zombie oxen and mules.

[Potato_Priest]

-There are still body needs. A body can’t just run on magic. So what do the undead eat? If they want to stay in good condition. (OR, a body stays perfect and preserved but can not heal. All injuries are permanent and accumulative)
[/SPOILER]

If undead needed to eat, they wouldn't be better workers than humans by very much, because they require constant supervision.

I like that second option, but I think the phrase perfect and preserved could be misleading, as it might imply that the physical body of an undead doesn't get worn down and torn apart by repetitive labor.

I prefer this variant on that idea: Undead Still Rot, and accumulate injuries, althought they do not need to eat. Thus, a zombie still slowly turns into a skeleton (by flesh being worn/rotting off), while a skeleton is slowly worn down by the manual labor it performs without a human laborer's normal layers of regenerative skin. Because of this, while there are physical procedures in place that can help to sort of shore up an undead's physical form (like installing an iron brace to keep a leg bone together), such measures, like modern medical procedures, are rarely permanent and often cost more than an undead laborer is worth. As the Undead wear out, the difficulty of tasks that they will be able to perform will go down, due to their failing bodies. At some point, Undead are just going to get so worn down that there is no point maintaining them any more, and they are allowed to sort of crumble into dust.

If you use this model, keep in mind that an undead laborer is going to put out less work in it's functional life than a human could do in a lifespan, but will not need to eat or have other needs that human workers have, which makes them more economically valuable. This means that if no humans work, however, you'll need to have zombie/skeleton animals to replenish your labor force.

[Keeg]

Couple things. 1) I edited the bodily needs section. But yeah, I think zombies are basically as economically viable as cheap slave labor. So wages aren't a problem but 100% of upkeep and housing is on the owner. Much like early indentured servitude there would be like a "for a small loan of 100 gold in life I will gladly give you my body after death."
I was thinking of a small commentary on labor just that's simultaneously more and less inhumane.

2) Everyl, I was 100% on the same page about non-human zombies too. Major Cities would have their real military and the hodgepodge of previously failed invaders / surrounding beast. Rural areas have beast of burden and the occasional town wolf or two. The grossly rich have undead fey that buzz about for their amusement until their wings wear out. Creepy quest-giving kids resurrect small bugs.

-There are still bodily needs. A body can be raised purely on magic but can't regenerate to any degree. If they want to stay in good condition undead need, essentially, cleric-mechanics to fix up. I'm thinking appendage assimilation / necrotic healing spells. Injuries are accumulative so wear and tear breaks them down after a while. (to avoid sun-damage most work is done at night

Other things to consider
-Undead non-humans are just are prevalent. Construction crews wouldn't be the same without a giant/troll

Also yes. I absolutely think the area has a darker past. There is a lot of good now but it was a rough road to get there.

This could lead to a world like the one you describe, but it basically assumes that the "good" necromancers who conquered everything use their undead army to violently put down rebellions, turning the defeated rebels into more undead soldiers and laborers, repeating the process until there aren't enough dispossessed laborers left to be a threat to the new hierarchy.

[ES Curse]

Just use skeletons, less of a smell. Any concerns about lack of muscle can be solved by just having more skeletons.

And I don't see how studying the arcane could be discouraged when magic is such a big part of the world. What I do envision is a rigid caste system between the ruling necromancers and everyone else. Necromancers live out their mortal lives, begin to study magic, and most importantly have kids so their ranks may increase. When one of these nobles come of veritable age (possibly restricted to those who attain a certain level of prestige within society), they become liches/vampires/etc. and continue on their path. The underclass, by contrast, is strictly prohibited from practicing magic because it upsets the balance of power. People are expected to be fit and breed. When they reach a prime age (late 30s/early 40s), they are ritualistically slaughtered and converted into undead servants. Because adults are rare, children have to be raised in boardinghouses by slightly older children in a sort of hierarchy. The whole air of underclass society is quite somber, like a sort of permanent funeral. Violence and crime are quite common, which only matters to the upperclass when a body is desecrated or disfigured.

[Potato_Priest]

here's the basic premise: Small group of strong good-guy-clerical-necromancers see the tyranny of the land and unjust hierarchy in agrarian based feudalism and essentially raise an army or undead, conquer everything, build churches to an good-god of death and teach people how to animate-dead for agricultural / construction / labor purposes so man can dedicate himself to the finer arts.

And I don't see how studying the arcane could be discouraged when magic is such a big part of the world. What I do envision is a rigid caste system between the ruling necromancers and everyone else. Necromancers live out their mortal lives, begin to study magic, and most importantly have kids so their ranks may increase. When one of these nobles come of veritable age (possibly restricted to those who attain a certain level of prestige within society), they become liches/vampires/etc. and continue on their path. The underclass, by contrast, is strictly prohibited from practicing magic because it upsets the balance of power. People are expected to be fit and breed. When they reach a prime age (late 30s/early 40s), they are ritualistically slaughtered and converted into undead servants. Because adults are rare, children have to be raised in boardinghouses by slightly older children in a sort of hierarchy. The whole air of underclass society is quite somber, like a sort of permanent funeral. Violence and crime are quite common, which only matters to the upperclass when a body is desecrated or disfigured.

I believe the basic premise of the scenario is that necromancy has solved many of civilization's problems, rather than another lich-king of the week society.

[Keeg]

Just use skeletons, less of a smell. Any concerns about lack of muscle can be solved by just having more skeletons.

And I don't see how studying the arcane could be discouraged when magic is such a big part of the world.

Couple things: The problem I have with skeletons as the majority of the working force is that they just seem weak to me. A literally lack of muscle matter can't be strong. I figure they'd be good for things like scouts. But bone itself isn't super sturdy and without any protection from the elements...meh

In rural-scapes of any land I don't think magic is huge part of daily life.
Young kid: Dad! I figured out how to cast fireball!
Old man farmer: the ****? You want to burn down our barn? We have a tinderbox for fires. We don't need you blasting ****!
Kid: but-but-but...I thought you'd be proud....
Farmer: If you want me to be proud be like your brother and learn to repair the wagon! or your sister who studies in the temple and can repair the flesh of the dead now. What good is a fireball to me?!

I believe the basic premise of the scenario is that necromancy has solved many of civilization's problems, rather than another lich-king of the week society.

Potato bro's got it. I want a medieval stasis so life is kind of dreary in general but it's essentially democratic. There's trouble in their history but there is with us too. How many modern countries were founded on revolution that was pretty nasty? #cuba?

Bad things: killing off the established power. forcing a reliance on undead labor. implementing a fairly strong religious order. Depending on how radiant damage works; outlawing other holy orders. Normalizing a pseudo-slavery
Good things: got rural folks out of the fields (kinda). The worst jobs go to the undead. Established a strong sense of community and generational-perspective on life.
(more than willing to accept feedback on editing that list)

[Everyl]

In rural-scapes of any land I don't think magic is huge part of daily life.
Young kid: Dad! I figured out how to cast fireball!
Old man farmer: the ****? You want to burn down our barn? We have a tinderbox for fires. We don't need you blasting ****!
Kid: but-but-but...I thought you'd be proud....
Farmer: If you want me to be proud be like your brother and learn to repair the wagon! or your sister who studies in the temple and can repair the flesh of the dead now. What good is a fireball to me?!

I wouldn't underestimate the practical value of arcane magic in D&D. It sounds like you're thinking 5e for this setting, so here are a few spells that commoners might like to have around.

Cantrips:
Mending: Able to repair tools and equipment from breaks caused by routine wear and tear, Mending only takes a minute and, as a cantrip, can be cast as may times as the caster wants each day. This saves untold hours and cost that would otherwise be spent repairing or replacing tools, livestock harnesses, wagon parts, and the like.
Prestidigitation: A quick, reliable way to start a fire when needed, also doubles as a way to make bland food taste good (or mask the taste of slightly spoiled fare).
Light: Able to provide portable light after dark without consuming fuel or risking an accidental fire.

Level 1:
Unseen Servant: Performs menial tasks that need to be done anyway, with no need for attention or oversight as long as the caster doesn't wander too far off.
Alarm: Some people live in dangerous places, including most people in high-fantasy settings. This simple spell provides a warning against burglars and home invaders.
Floating Disk: Allows you to haul 500 pounds without need of a wagon or draft animal.

Level 2:
Locate Object: Can be used to locate lost valuables, as well as to dramatically boost efforts to forage for rare (but valuable) items.
Detect Thoughts: A highly effective way to check the honesty of a stranger.

Level 3:
Animate Dead: Just like the priests do.
Fly: Bypass rough terrain, washed-out roads, etc. Also, repair one's roof in safety.
Phantom Steed: All the travel convenience of a real horse, without all the pesky needs to feed, water, and train it!
Tiny Hut: Warm, if somewhat spartan, shelter for a whole family, whenever and wherever needed.

Clerics admittedly share several of those spells, and they have a few gems of their own (Create Water, Purify Food and Drink, and Create Food and Water being particularly noteworthy). Arcane magic has the advantage that it has labor-saving spells that don't require any corpses to cast, which could be quite valuable in a society where the supply of corpses is a major factor in the functioning of the economy.

That being said, nothing obligates you as a GM to use the spell lists straight out of the book. If you remove Animate Dead from the wizard list, it's not that hard to imagine arcane magic being seen as inferior to divine magic for religious/cultural reasons. I just don't think it would necessarily be seen as less valuable than wagon repair, especially since basic wagon repair is available as a cantrip.

(Disclaimer: I'm not 100% sure you're using 5e, and I'm still a neophyte with that edition, so it's possible I'm missing something)

[Lord of Monies]

The problem I have with skeletons as the majority of the working force is that they just seem weak to me. A literally lack of muscle matter can't be strong. I figure they'd be good for things like scouts. But bone itself isn't super sturdy and without any protection from the elements...meh

Don't forget that you're animating them with magic, the idea is that this will give them more strength and durability than a simple skeleton given motion. If not then they'd make terrible enemies for adventurers as they'd shatter under most blows instead of requiring a bludgeoning weapon to get past their damage reduction.

I don't quite have the Necropolitan state that you're working on, but in my game world soldiers can sign the equivalent of an organ doner card to allow their bodies to be animated and continue to fight after their death. It's an out-of-sight thing like this that might spark discussions to see where else this can be applied, especially with the important note that it's voluntary. Try considering your nation from a spot like this in the past and creep towards more undead as time and politics advance to see if the social standards still apply, or if more come to mind.

Much like early indentured servitude there would be like a "for a small loan of 100 gold in life I will gladly give you my body after death."

I don't think anybody is going to pay money in advance for something that might end up being a long wait or even no payoff if the body dies and cannot be found.