OOTS #1063 - The Discussion Thread

[Forikroder]

Ah, yes, my mistake! The "genius" mechanic who doesn't understand any of that technical mumbo-jumbo but always gets the job done with duck-tape and gumption!

if the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy

theoretically though, the OoTS may have found the only situation where Familicide is justified

hell if they cast it on the dwarves that solves like 80% of the problem immediately

[danielxcutter]

This strip was full of good ol' WIN. One to you, Giant!

...Mr. Burlew of course, not the half-naked frost giant barbarian.

[Crusher]

For a second, I misread that, and thought that it would wipe out an entire element.

Its overrated anyway. You're better off with bamboo at least half the time.

[8BitNinja]

I'm pretty sure that lack of infighting bit hasn't really changed.

Either that or we haven't seen enough time pass to see change proven.

Either that or I have a harder time being convinced.

[danielxcutter]

I'm pretty sure that lack of infighting bit hasn't really changed.

Either that or we haven't seen enough time pass to see change proven.

Either that or I have a harder time being convinced.

Yes, yes, and yes. What did you expect, you're a paladin.

[8BitNinja]

Yes, yes, and yes. What did you expect, you're a paladin.

When you have such high standards for yourself, it's hard to look at others without them.

It's a problem many have.

[Anarion]

Oh Roy, when will you learn not to be arrogant? Fate always gives in to temptation.

[Jay R]

By the time a halfling's worked their way up to stabbing elbows, the giant in question is most certainly dead.

This particular halfling has a Ring of Jumping.

I've got a suspicion that the Mechane's crew is more like a family than a group of people who work together.

Oh, yes. Far too dysfunctional to be a work crew. Has to be a family.

[Ridureyu]

Looks like Andi needs to hit a few more crew members with a wrench. They aren't trusting her leadership properly.

[Scarlet Knight]

That's a sign of a genius, mechanic. don't you watch sci-fi?

Yes, it's a shame she'll swing from the yardarm when Bandana awakes.

[Stabbey]

That's certainly one way to read her question, but it's not the way I read it.

I assumed it was pretty much face value because once they've turned out of the charted pass there is a real issue of finding another navigable way out and if they don't have/aren't referring to a map they may well be relying on gut instinct to decide which way won't lead them into a worse situation....

Your reading is certainly a possibility as well, though, but not one I'd have considered in this case had I not visited this thread.

Well maybe I read it as a joke because out of 1000+ strips the overwhelming majority of them end with some kind of joke or punchline.

[nocoolnamejim]

Yep, she needs a major flaw for that, and some more traits that make people conflicted about her.

People suggested other party additions before - Thog, Miko, Hinjo, Celia, Veldrina, Ganji, golem Crystal...
All of them were as controversal as the main cast, which is why they were considered, I guess.
It's pretty weird how the level-headed Bandana hasn't shown any negative character traits, or did I miss them?

No glaringly obvious ones. A few folks have argued against her competency as acting Captain - and I suppose she could have been more proactive in dealing with Andi/seeing her coming - but overall I think she's been fine in her duties.

And you may well be onto something. It's our flaws that make us interesting. Bandana has just struck me as...I dunno...bland? She's there to serve a role and fill a purpose. It isn't limited to her. I kind of feel that way about all of the Mechane crew and the ship itself.

O-Chul or that other Paladin travelling with him (spacing on the name at the moment) both strike me as interesting potential choices that I'd add to your list above. They're written far more interestingly than a lot of other Paladins that I've seen with their sense of humor, flexibility on certain matters like fleeting combat, etc.

[Forikroder]

No glaringly obvious ones. A few folks have argued against her competency as acting Captain - and I suppose she could have been more proactive in dealing with Andi/seeing her coming - but overall I think she's been fine in her duties.

And you may well be onto something. It's our flaws that make us interesting. Bandana has just struck me as...I dunno...bland? She's there to serve a role and fill a purpose. It isn't limited to her. I kind of feel that way about all of the Mechane crew and the ship itself.

O-Chul or that other Paladin travelling with him (spacing on the name at the moment) both strike me as interesting potential choices that I'd add to your list above. They're written far more interestingly than a lot of other Paladins that I've seen with their sense of humor, flexibility on certain matters like fleeting combat, etc.

aside from Miko the paladins have been written with flexibility though

even though its really only Hinjo Ochul and lien though

[Prospekt]

Also, "What the hell, Andi?" is not how you address your captain who just staged a popular mutiny.

How is this a popular mutiny? What other crew members have patted Andi on the back like, "Whew, good job there!" Literally only one crew member hasn't freaked out and that's because they're busy driving the damn ship while it's bombarded- they don't have the luxury to freak out.

[Kish]

I believe that's Shining Wrath's point--that the people in the last strip's discussion thread who took the immediate obedience Andi received as meaning she spoke for the crew in her resistance to Bandana's leadership are not getting support from this strip.

[darkelement]

I don't see why the Andi/Bandana/crew imbroglio has to be an either-or thing. Clearly a lot of them support her and a lot of them don't. Bandana was being a terrible leader, and Andi raised her objections to Bandana's decisions terribly. There's plenty of blame to go around.

Yes, Elan's spell fizzling might be bad, but I still think it needs to be pointed out that Andi's shortest-of-the-short-term objective of getting out of the rock bombardment was successful, and Bandana's prediction that any random side passage would have just as many giants waiting to ambush them seems to have been proven incorrect.

[goodpeople25]

I don't see why the Andi/Bandana/crew imbroglio has to be an either-or thing. Clearly a lot of them support her and a lot of them don't. Bandana was being a terrible leader, and Andi raised her objections to Bandana's decisions terribly. There's plenty of blame to go around.

Yes, Elan's spell fizzling might be bad, but I still think it needs to be pointed out that Andi's shortest-of-the-short-term objective of getting out of the rock bombardment was successful, and Bandana's prediction that any random side passage would have just as many giants waiting to ambush them seems to have been proven incorrect.

Source? For the bolded mostly, though convincing evidence of Bandana's terrible leadership as well as support for Andi as captain or at least to not have Bandana in charge would be nice to have too I guess.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Or the giants there are winding up their pitching arms, having not gotten to go in the surprise round.

Or Rich has something really nasty tucked away. Any bets we're about to see what a dragon looks like in the new art style?

[goodpeople25]

Or the giants there are winding up their pitching arms, having not gotten to go in the surprise round.

Or Rich has something really nasty tucked away. Any bets we're about to see what a dragon looks like in the new art style?

As in them entering a suitable monster's territory due to not following the pass? Makes sense to me and nice idea if so. Not as sure about it being a dragon though.

[keybounce]

Which is more believable:
1. A wide ranging peace plan that nets a profit,
2. A sexy shoeless god of war doing a kill-all spree
3. An unscheduled turn has put the ship both out of rock range AND out of "passing through the mountains" range,
4. A wizard kills you and all your school friends, or
5. Being sniped by three other people noting the same point of humor :-)

[BriarHobbit]

What a fun episode. Hopefully, Elan can cast another Mending spell. I presume so, but there is trouble if he can't.

[Centaur]

These Gnomes DID say that Andi's "maintenance" was a bunch of jury-rigging, though... I understand those were repairs done under duress, but...

Being able to implement fixes of any complexity is an INT-based skill.

Choosing a particular fix strategy that does not make further work overly difficult (in other words, avoiding technical debt) is a WIS-based skill.

Dealing with people is, of course, CHA-based.

[factotum]

I think we're heading for a mountainside crash at this point. Elan's Mending fizzling and the navigator announcing there's a mountain in front of them suggest things aren't going to go well. As for Andi, she maybe might have considered that the reason the frost giants are all along the mainline of the pass is because it's the only way through, and they're not stupid?

[Knaight]

These Gnomes DID say that Andi's "maintenance" was a bunch of jury-rigging, though... I understand those were repairs done under duress, but...

Said "maintenance" also involved repairs from extensive damage involving being caught directly in a nasty storm and fixing up the ship with an utterly inadequate supply of spare parts. There's absolutely no reason to think that Andi is anything but competent at her job, other than people disliking the character and extrapolating ineptitude that wasn't there from the dislike.

[Messenger]

How is this a popular mutiny? What other crew members have patted Andi on the back like, "Whew, good job there!" Literally only one crew member hasn't freaked out and that's because they're busy driving the damn ship while it's bombarded- they don't have the luxury to freak out.

Which, unfortunately, is what they're doing now while the helmsman, though remaining calm, has no idea where to go.

Now we get to see if Andi has the right stuff to be captain of the ship. My money's not on it, though.

And I'm glad Bandana isn't dead (as was feared last update), but this panic and disorder among the crew plus the Mechane's veering away from their flight path and destination is not going to be good for their current side (but very important) quest.

[skim172]

Objectively, we can say Bandana's leadership has not been good because it led to her getting hit in the head with a wrench.

I mean, I don't know if she could've done it any better or if any changes would've improved the situation. But the ideal outcome of her leadership would probably include not getting wrenched in the head.

Maybe she could've been less insulting at that last point - try to keep her cool and her tongue when dealing with an annoying subordinate. Long-term, she could've tried to address Andi's obvious bitterness - ignoring a person's resentment towards you is a good idea in most relationships, but not when dealing with an employee. "Brushing off haters" is tough when said haters work for you and their performance is vital to your efforts. That's an important management lesson for us all - never ignore an employee's grievances. You don't have to give in to those grievances, but you do need to address them, because otherwise you're just ignoring a problem that will only grow bigger and bring down the whole team.

But c'mon - it's Bandana's first management position. She'll learn ... unless there's permanent brain damage from the aforementioned head-wrenching. But now we learn the important function that Human Resources provide. This could have all been potentially avoided with a proper HR department on-board the Mechane to hear out Andi's grievances, to mediate a discussion with Bandana, and to provide Andi with workshops on Anger Management and Constructive Criticism.

So really, this is ultimately Julio Scoundrel's fault for putting together a faulty corporate structure and a management system based primarily on Charisma checks.

[Marlowe]

Objectively, we can say Bandana's leadership has not been good because it led to her getting hit in the head with a wrench.

A ship captain shouldn't have to walk on eggshells around her subordinates for fear of being assaulted.

This is ENTIRELY Andi's fault. Not Bandana's. Not Julio. She has failed to behave as a professional or as an adult. And that's the least that either of them could have expected of her.

[factotum]

Maybe she could've been less insulting at that last point - try to keep her cool and her tongue when dealing with an annoying subordinate.

Look at the situation they're in at the time, though. I don't blame Bandana for losing her cool with someone who was making no effort whatsoever to help with the current situation and was just complaining.

[Marlowe]

The bridge of a ship in a crisis is no time or place for a debate. A ship in GENERAL is no place for a debate. Bandana had the right to expect that the crew would attend to their assigned duties (in Andi's case this means fixing things) and follow her orders. Andi was doing neither and Bandana was entirely right to call her out on it.

Not that this should matter, because in what universe is it acceptable to assault a superior because they spoke to you sharply for shirking your duties?

[dancrilis]

The bridge of a ship in a crisis is no time or place for a debate. A ship in GENERAL is no place for a debate. Bandana had the right to expect that the crew would attend to their assigned duties (in Andi's case this means fixing things) and follow her orders. Andi was doing neither and Bandana was entirely right to call her out on it.

It depends on what you consider Andi's assigned duties.
A. Fixing the Ship
OR
B. Making sure the ship doesn't crash.

If it is A well she has no magic that we have seen and so may not be able to make a Craft check to have any affect, if it is B than telling Bandana to get off the pass or they will have no ship based on her expert opinion and taking a proactive approach to ensuring that her duty of making sure the ship didn't crash might be justified.

I will say in Bandana's defence (despite me thinking that she is inept as a captain) Andi should have taken a vacation from the ship in Tindertown if she was unable to follow Bandana as a captain (and if the ship couldn't function without Andi and they were all grounded so be it) - she should have known that adventurer transport would be hazardous and that Bandana might not be willing to follow reason (or at least what Andi viewed as the most reasonable course of action, if Bandana saw things differently or got caught up in the moment) ... but ah well.