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  1. - Top - End - #631
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    I'm pretty sure somebody requested on this forum ideas for a 'Run to ingratiate themselves with a Big Time Fixer and I suggested something to give the Fixer a unique character, such as him wanting them to steal the last existing copy of 'Star Wars A New Hope'' where Han shoots first

    In Cyberpunk 3rd Ed. one of the major factions is obviously Disney
    All Comicshorse's posts come with the advisor : This is just my opinion any difficulties arising from implementing my ideas are your own problem

  2. - Top - End - #632
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    So, the question becomes, what kind of evil magic is behind Disney? We know that the UB was the bugs, and the Azzies are Blood Magic...

    So, what kind of magic is Disney?
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  3. - Top - End - #633
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    The Gnomes of Zurich. They're really a branch of Throalic dwarves, who established a kaer in Switzerland on the downswing of magic towards the end of the Fourth World, so they could get a jump on the next cycle, like the elves and Therans did. They spent most of their time in suspended animation, taking advantage of astrologically predicted spike cycles to wake up and stretch forth their power. While they're by no means as dominant as they'd planned, especially after the Black Lodge was able to blunt most of their efforts during the gnomes' downtime, they were able to sink their hooks into Disney and have slowly been herding it into a massive power.

    After all, it's not like Disney's ever showed a BAD dwarf, have they?

  4. - Top - End - #634
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Torath View Post
    Disney just bought 21st Century Fox. Well on its way to being a Triple-A Megacorp. Anyone ever involve Disney in any of their runs?
    Once. Runner team was tasked to steal Disney's animated remake of Fargo before it hit theaters in a couple months. The Johnson represented a company looking to get ahead in the merchandising game.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    So, the question becomes, what kind of evil magic is behind Disney? We know that the UB was the bugs, and the Azzies are Blood Magic...
    So, what kind of magic is Disney?
    The Disney park security was run by fey in my game. So... faerie magic and pixie dust.
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  5. - Top - End - #635
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    A thought occurred to me on the train today: Ruthenium Polymers let you make a "chameleon suit" that renders you invisible to visible light (if you have enough cameras). Is there any way this could work with infrared light? We have IR cameras so this is theoretically possible. But humans/metahumans only reflect visible light; we don't emit it naturally like we do with IR. Would the heat generated by living things doom this idea to failure?
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  6. - Top - End - #636
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Torath View Post
    A thought occurred to me on the train today: Ruthenium Polymers let you make a "chameleon suit" that renders you invisible to visible light (if you have enough cameras). Is there any way this could work with infrared light? We have IR cameras so this is theoretically possible. But humans/metahumans only reflect visible light; we don't emit it naturally like we do with IR. Would the heat generated by living things doom this idea to failure?
    You'd need the suit to trap the infrared radiation, which is very doable. The problem is that it would be incredibly stuffy, so you'd probably have a cooling system and/or a time limit of how long it would be on.
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  7. - Top - End - #637
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Torath View Post
    A thought occurred to me on the train today: Ruthenium Polymers let you make a "chameleon suit" that renders you invisible to visible light (if you have enough cameras). Is there any way this could work with infrared light? We have IR cameras so this is theoretically possible. But humans/metahumans only reflect visible light; we don't emit it naturally like we do with IR. Would the heat generated by living things doom this idea to failure?
    4e works a bit differently. The cameras are an assumed part of the suit, the suit provides a flat stealth bonus, and it can't be upgraded to perfect invisibility. (In an unusual fit of realism, they note that the mod is only useful if the armor covers most of your body and you don't have equipment hanging off you.) There's also an armor mod to reduce thermal signature a lot, and by any RAW you can have both on the same suit, though by the advanced rule option you can't add much more.
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  8. - Top - End - #638
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Silva View Post
    That's because they are. ALL Shadowrun rulesets are unnecessarily complex and slow when it comes to anything different than a simple skill test. The moment the group engage with combat, hacking, rigging, etc the game slows to a craw and players start yawning on each other faces.

    Really, just get a corebook for fluff (I recommend 20th Anniversary for a modern take, or 2nd ed for a more gritty, retro vibe) and use it with your fave ruleset. There are lots of conversions out there, from Fate to GURPS to Apocalypse World.
    I picked up copy of Shadowrun 1st edition, first printing way back in 1989 at a convention. Brought it back to my high school group. We loved the game and loved the setting. Never really played it. Because we couldn't figure out how. Oh, we tried. We'd build characters and get a run going, but sooner or later we'd need to do something, like cast a spell. And the rules would be self-contradictory, and the examples would do things a third way that wasn't compatible with any of the rules in the book! Oh, we might handwave our way past one or two of those but sooner or later the drag from repeated unsolvable rules puzzles would drag the game to a crashing halt.

    I played 2nd edition a lot in college, since it was actually playable.

  9. - Top - End - #639
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    SR1 had the damage staging rules that allowed for high-stat assassins to kill with a pocket pistol, because they could throw a ton of dice from their combat pool into accuracy, then stage up damage beyond the chance of anyone staging it down. 3L1 damage meant your Body test was against a TL of 3, and 1 success would drop it to no damage... but it also meant that every success the assassin got staged damage up, and he might be able to toss 10 or 12 dice at it.
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  10. - Top - End - #640
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Yeah for a joke a friend created a Street Samurai with Wired 3 and a smartgun link as his only cyberware and double specialized in Street Line special pistols and was death on legs with a damn pop gun. He ran it for one session and then withdrew it when everybody asked him to
    All Comicshorse's posts come with the advisor : This is just my opinion any difficulties arising from implementing my ideas are your own problem

  11. - Top - End - #641
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Remember PhysAds getting automatic successes, not just bonus dice?
    The Cranky Gamer
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  12. - Top - End - #642
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Oh yeah. " Just 'cause I'm back flipping off the roof of a building, while half blind and wounded and throwing a knife at a running target under a Invisiblilty spell is no reason I can't just hit him "
    All Comicshorse's posts come with the advisor : This is just my opinion any difficulties arising from implementing my ideas are your own problem

  13. - Top - End - #643
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by comicshorse View Post
    Oh yeah. " Just 'cause I'm back flipping off the roof of a building, while half blind and wounded and throwing a knife at a running target under a Invisiblilty spell is no reason I can't just hit him "
    I find it amusing that in 1e and 2e, they were "Physical Adepts". Then other kinds of adepts began to proliferate, and they became just Adepts.
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  14. - Top - End - #644
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by comicshorse View Post
    Yeah for a joke a friend created a Street Samurai with Wired 3 and a smartgun link as his only cyberware and double specialized in Street Line special pistols and was death on legs with a damn pop gun. He ran it for one session and then withdrew it when everybody asked him to
    Well...my current character actually will have 11P, -8 AP revolvers as her main weapon. Ares Alpha exists just for full auto, everything else just needs Hald-load APDS and Special Modifications-laced Vagabonds!
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  15. - Top - End - #645
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    I find it amusing that in 1e and 2e, they were "Physical Adepts". Then other kinds of adepts began to proliferate, and they became just Adepts.
    They had Sorcery and Conjuring adepts back in 2E days. I never played one, but they were available.

    Were 1E Physads in the core rulebook? Or were they introduced in the Grimoire?
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  16. - Top - End - #646
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Torath View Post
    They had Sorcery and Conjuring adepts back in 2E days. I never played one, but they were available.

    Were 1E Physads in the core rulebook? Or were they introduced in the Grimoire?
    They were pretty awesome in a min/max kind of way.
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  17. - Top - End - #647
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Torath View Post
    They had Sorcery and Conjuring adepts back in 2E days. I never played one, but they were available.

    Were 1E Physads in the core rulebook? Or were they introduced in the Grimoire?
    They didn't show up till the Grimoire. And I think the 1e Grimoire had "aspected magicians".

    Can we talk for a moment about what a JOY the 1e and 2e materials were to read? Like, I think one of the greatest strengths of Shadowrun, despite 1e's ****ty mechanics and 2e's slightly less ****ty mechanics, was that the books were just fun and flavorful to read. Like, the Neon Samurai ranting about ALL LASER WEAPONS. Or The Smiling Bandit having fun in the Shadowtech discussions. Hell, the very fact that Shadowbeat existed as a goddamn sourcebook. That drek was PURE NERPS, and it was FUN to read, even wrapped around the mechanics.
    The Cranky Gamer
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  18. - Top - End - #648
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    They didn't show up till the Grimoire. And I think the 1e Grimoire had "aspected magicians".

    Can we talk for a moment about what a JOY the 1e and 2e materials were to read? Like, I think one of the greatest strengths of Shadowrun, despite 1e's ****ty mechanics and 2e's slightly less ****ty mechanics, was that the books were just fun and flavorful to read. Like, the Neon Samurai ranting about ALL LASER WEAPONS. Or The Smiling Bandit having fun in the Shadowtech discussions. Hell, the very fact that Shadowbeat existed as a goddamn sourcebook. That drek was PURE NERPS, and it was FUN to read, even wrapped around the mechanics.
    I have to agree here. The prose itself was generally pretty good (and the examples were fun to read), but the comments were the best. I love the lingo, too! Drek and frag and chummers and all the rest of the slang they invented. The discussions at the bottom of Shadowtech were just a joy to read. Hatchman on the pink-mohawk style in Fields of Fire. People giving Nightfire crap for being an Ares employee, Steel Lynx complaining about Copyright Infringement, even Big D getting on when Fastjack starts spitballing his plans for the Voice Mask. It was just a lot of fun to read. The Rigger Black book was great too!
    Last edited by Lord Torath; 2019-03-26 at 11:58 AM.
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  19. - Top - End - #649
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    They didn't show up till the Grimoire. And I think the 1e Grimoire had "aspected magicians".
    Those were Elemental and Shamanic Adepts, right ?
    All Comicshorse's posts come with the advisor : This is just my opinion any difficulties arising from implementing my ideas are your own problem

  20. - Top - End - #650
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by comicshorse View Post
    Those were Elemental and Shamanic Adepts, right ?
    I think they also had some Sorcery and Conjuring Adepts, too (with intimations that there may be Enchanting and Astral Adepts, too).

    And WHY did I JUST NOW connect Enchanting Adepts with Earthdawn's Weaponsmiths?
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  21. - Top - End - #651
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    I used them as NPC's on occasion. A Elemental Water Adept made for a decent Investigative mage with all the Detection spells but I'm not sure anybody I ever played with made an Elemental/Sorcery/Conjuring/etc Adept
    All Comicshorse's posts come with the advisor : This is just my opinion any difficulties arising from implementing my ideas are your own problem

  22. - Top - End - #652
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    Can we talk for a moment about what a JOY the 1e and 2e materials were to read? Like, I think one of the greatest strengths of Shadowrun, despite 1e's ****ty mechanics and 2e's slightly less ****ty mechanics, was that the books were just fun and flavorful to read.
    Oh yes, I loved those bits of world-building and characterizations. It's the sole reason I was collecting the older books for a time, especially hunting down whatever rules I could find on sports like Urban Brawl.
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  23. - Top - End - #653
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Thinking about running a short survival campaign in Bug City. Trying to figure out which rules set to use. I have 5e and it looks to be unplayable by how absolutely complicated it is. I want a nice flowing game not fifteen minutes to figure out how to roll for automatic weapons in X particular instance. I have 4th just haven't looked at it in over a decade. Somewhere I have a copy of 3rd and maybe even 2nd, just have to hunt a bit more for them. I also have the most excellent Bug City sourcebook so that isn't an issue. Which rules set is the most playable and least looking up how to do the rules?

  24. - Top - End - #654
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Playability isn't really Shadowrun's thing. The rules have ALWAYS been complicated, with a ton of subsystems.

    Folks have been talking about Shadowrun: Anarchy as having been designed for playability, but I am not familiar with it.
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  25. - Top - End - #655
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Yeah, if anything, I'd argue the 2/3e rules tend to get even more complicated with trying to keep track of how everyone is spending all their different pools every round, and combat definitely wasn't any less complicated in general.

    Anarchy is definitely a lot simpler, but has some other issues, especially for players who already know Shadowrun a lot of it will just feel "wrong" because a lot of the time, characters won't be able to do things by design a players expects them to be able to do based on his regular Shadowrun knowledge. Doesn't have to be a big issue because you can easily houserule everything the way you want it to be and since there aren't any complicated subsystems, that's not a huge problem or anything, just something to keep track of.

    And I'd completely ignore all the "narrative systems" of Anarchy, because a lot of it is trying to be about a player empowerment narrative game, with players actively shaping the narrative by introducing plot points, changing the plot on the fly and so on, which can be fun but in my experience is not what most people want from Shadowrun, especially not in a Bug City campaign. But again, you can just ignore all this stuff with no issues, I feel like they kept this stuff completely separate by design so you can cut it out without even noticing anything's missing.

  26. - Top - End - #656
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Pardon my laziness but I can't be bothered to search through all my books, if I even have the books that contain the info I need, if the books even exist. What are US laws like on the use of Detection magic by police ?
    Assuming the 5th Amendment still stands presumably a crook can't be made to answer under a 'Analyze Truth' spell. But can they choose to have one cast on them to prove their innocence ? How about the use of Ritual links using DNA at the crime scene to prove the crook was there ? ("And now the Court Mage casts 'Glowing Lights' on the DNA sample taken at the murder scene annnnnnnd the accused is surrounded by light members of the Jury).
    Would 'Mind Probe' be allowable under any circumstances or would you just need a court order, like checking a suspects bank or phone records ?
    Obviously this only applies to regular police, presumably Corporate Security can do whatever the hell they like
    Last edited by comicshorse; 2019-04-02 at 07:29 AM.
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  27. - Top - End - #657
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by comicshorse View Post
    Pardon my laziness but I can't be bothered to search through all my books, if I even have the books that contain the info I need, if the books even exist. What are US laws like on the use of Detection magic by police ?
    Assuming the 5th Amendment still stands presumably a crook can't be made to answer under a 'Analyze Truth' spell. But can they choose to have one cast on them to prove their innocence ? How about the use of Ritual links using DNA at the crime scene to prove the crook was there ? ("And now the Court Mage casts 'Glowing Lights' on the DNA sample taken at the murder scene annnnnnnd the accused is surrounded by light members of the Jury).
    Would 'Mind Probe' be allowable under any circumstances or would you just need a court order, like checking a suspects bank or phone records ?
    Obviously this only applies to regular police, presumably Corporate Security can do whatever the hell they like
    Lone Star (2E Sourcebook) says that cops (and rent-a-cops) need a warrant engage in magical surveillance. I didn't see anything about truth spells, though. Virtual Realities 2.0 has a section on Matrix and the law. I didn't see a similar section in The Grimoire, though.
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  28. - Top - End - #658
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by comicshorse View Post
    Pardon my laziness but I can't be bothered to search through all my books, if I even have the books that contain the info I need, if the books even exist. What are US laws like on the use of Detection magic by police ?
    Assuming the 5th Amendment still stands presumably a crook can't be made to answer under a 'Analyze Truth' spell. But can they choose to have one cast on them to prove their innocence ? How about the use of Ritual links using DNA at the crime scene to prove the crook was there ? ("And now the Court Mage casts 'Glowing Lights' on the DNA sample taken at the murder scene annnnnnnd the accused is surrounded by light members of the Jury).
    Would 'Mind Probe' be allowable under any circumstances or would you just need a court order, like checking a suspects bank or phone records ?
    Obviously this only applies to regular police, presumably Corporate Security can do whatever the hell they like
    Some of this is going to be "Which jurisdiction", because, well, the UCAS and the CAS likely have very different rules about such things.

    2e's "Awakenings" covered some of these things; I also want to say that Shadowtech had a bit about laws and law enforcement, but can't recall. I know that spectral evidence (i.e. summoning a spirit to testify, or analyzing the actions of a ghost) cannot DIRECTLY be used as evidence, but it can be used to help find evidence... i.e. You can't say "The ghost re-enacted the murder, therefore it was Bob" or "I summoned the spirit of the House and it said Bob did it", but you CAN say "Examining the actions of the ghost led me to this piece of physical evidence" or "I summoned a spirit to help me search the house and it found these shell casings, which are covered in Bob's fingerprints."

    IIRC, you are correct about Analyze Truth. I am not sure about Ritual Links. Mind Probe definitely requires a court order, at least, and might be outright forbidden.
    The Cranky Gamer
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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Thanks to you both. I must admit now I've started to think about it, I find the idea fascinating. Not to mention potentially game wrecking for the poor Shadowrunners
    All Comicshorse's posts come with the advisor : This is just my opinion any difficulties arising from implementing my ideas are your own problem

  30. - Top - End - #660
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by comicshorse View Post
    Thanks to you both. I must admit now I've started to think about it, I find the idea fascinating. Not to mention potentially game wrecking for the poor Shadowrunners
    Well, Shadowrunners are another kettle of fish. Many, of course, are SINless, many they have pretty much no rights. Others might have skills or contacts enough that they may become informants.
    The Cranky Gamer
    *It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
    *Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
    *Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
    *The One Deck Engine: Gaming on a budget
    Written by Me on DriveThru RPG
    There are almost 400,000 threads on this site. If you need me to address a thread as a moderator, include a link.

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