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    Default General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    The previous two Shadowrun General Questions threads have vanished, so I'm starting a third.

    Here's a link to the previous Shadowrun General Questions thread.
    And the one before that: Shadowrun Topic (Talk & Questions)

    My question: The UCAS President Alan Adams dies in Early 2052, leaving Vice President Thomas Steele in charge. Does anyone know what the cause of death was? Any suspicion of foul play?
    Last edited by Lord Torath; 2017-12-28 at 11:54 AM.
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    According to the Wiki, he died of a stroke.

    http://shadowrun.wikia.com/wiki/President_of_the_UCAS
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    So my group and I are interested in playing Shadowrun (5e) after a few of us played through the recent series of video games. I've been tagged to GM. I've had very little experience in the system (I ran a very very short game using the 4e rules but it was long enough ago that I can't remember anything useful), so I'm looking for a premade campaign/module/adventure to run through until I feel confident enough to write my own. I've been directed to Fast Food Fight (name?), which I'm going to run to introduce everyone to the rules, but after that I'm not sure what to do.

    Does anyone have a suggestion for what to run? I've been told that a bunch of 4e modules can be adapted but I don't want to have to do that as a first timer, and I've been told Splintered State (name?) is not so great for newcomers to the setting.
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by knightMARE View Post
    Does anyone have a suggestion for what to run?
    I looked around a bit, but the only 5e adventures I've seen are published books/pdfs for sale. If you're looking for freebies, you might have to bite the bullet and convert some 4e adventures (It's similar enough to 5e that it might not be a complete headache).


    Unrelated: I went back through some old notes on an adventure I ran years ago where the team infiltrates a rich person's party at his mansion in order to steal a painting. The team had intercepted one of the catering trucks, beat up the occupants, and then posed as caterers at this fancy event in order to mingle around and pick up gossip. Pretty good plan and in the end the team did get away with the painting (and even returned the truck to the saps they beat up, along with some "apology" money).

    One thing that I see now that I look back what that the team didn't grab any of the fancy food when they left. The truck still had several contains of real food, but none of the players thought to take any of it (well, the streetsam did grab one slice of cake just to try real chocolate frosting). In the world of soy-based diets, the food would have been quite valuable, but I guess no one thought about little details of the setting like that at the time. Most of the players were fairly new to Shadowrun, but even the veterans seemed to have been focused on the gossip and the target. Hmm, was just an interesting observation.
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post

    Unrelated: I went back through some old notes on an adventure I ran years ago where the team infiltrates a rich person's party at his mansion in order to steal a painting. The team had intercepted one of the catering trucks, beat up the occupants, and then posed as caterers at this fancy event in order to mingle around and pick up gossip. Pretty good plan and in the end the team did get away with the painting (and even returned the truck to the saps they beat up, along with some "apology" money).
    Heh, some tricks are universal, my group just used that tactic to steal a Egyptian Sarcophagus from a museum. Though we burned the truck afterwords to remove any evidence (not with the original caterers in it I should point out)
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by comicshorse View Post
    Heh, some tricks are universal, my group just used that tactic to steal a Egyptian Sarcophagus from a museum. Though we burned the truck afterwords to remove any evidence (not with the original caterers in it I should point out)
    My players wiped down the truck to be rid of fingerprints and stray hairs. I'm not that tough of a GM, so I let them succeed since they did think to do that at all. On the other hand, they did burn a stolen UPS truck later down the line in the campaign, but that was because it broke down on them in the barrens. They figured the company had insurance (which it did). They were nice enough to remove all the undelivered packages and set them aside before burning the truck and running of.

    I didn't have the heart to tell them those packages were most likely stolen by gangs and hobos shortly after.
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    I had a group that, for whatever reason, needed to steal a delivery truck. For the most part, we figured we'd steal it, hold the guys incognito, and let them go... why make enemies, you know?

    But, of course, there was That Bastardtm. The player in every Shadowrun game that, while everyone else has decided on low-impact mirrorshades, wants to "make sure we're not found out" by planting a false trail that leads right to some random schmuck. In this case, I think he drained the guy's accounts, bought him a ticket to somewhere distant, and made him disappear, while the rest of us were saying "Yeah, he'll get blamed, but you can hardly expect Paul Blart to face down armed criminals, especially when they clearly tased the crap out of him.."
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    frown Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    I had a group that, for whatever reason, needed to steal a delivery truck. For the most part, we figured we'd steal it, hold the guys incognito, and let them go... why make enemies, you know?

    But, of course, there was That Bastardtm. The player in every Shadowrun game that, while everyone else has decided on low-impact mirrorshades, wants to "make sure we're not found out" by planting a false trail that leads right to some random schmuck. In this case, I think he drained the guy's accounts, bought him a ticket to somewhere distant, and made him disappear, while the rest of us were saying "Yeah, he'll get blamed, but you can hardly expect Paul Blart to face down armed criminals, especially when they clearly tased the crap out of him.."
    You know that's actually better than I thought it would be. When you said 'The Bastard' I flashed on a couple of players who would have insisted on murdering the guys on the delivery truck to 'be safe' despite the objections of every-one of the other player
    One of them would have insisted on making it as messy or as slow as possible but then there's a reason I don't RP with him anymore
    Last edited by comicshorse; 2017-01-31 at 04:11 PM.
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    A thought occurred while killing time at work before quittin' time tonight: Red mercury (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_mercury), in the Shadowrun universe, is fairly obviously some form of nucleosynthesized orichalcum (...or possibly a mercury radical), vanishingly rare, possibly accidentally produced in a reactor in the midst of a mana spike.

    What stories can we tell using that, aside from the "oh look some more pre-Awakening magic?"
    Last edited by Telwar; 2017-01-31 at 08:17 PM.

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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Telwar View Post
    A thought occurred while killing time at work before quittin' time tonight: Red mercury (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_mercury), in the Shadowrun universe, is fairly obviously some form of nucleosynthesized orichalcum (...or possibly a mercury radical), vanishingly rare, possibly accidentally produced in a reactor in the midst of a mana spike.

    What stories can we tell using that, aside from the "oh look some more pre-Awakening magic?"
    Off the top of my head...

    1. The primary reactive material in some kind of Essence equivalent to a neutron bomb? Kills people but leaves buildings (and drones, and chromed up super-soldiers) standing.

    2. Rather than being a part of a nuclear bomb it's the astral imprint of a nuclear detonation? An afterimage left in the location's aura.

    3. Leaving aside the nuclear association, it's some kind of extreme delicacy for spirits and/or HMHVV infected? Almost like crystallized essence, with maybe some minorly addictive properties.
    Last edited by Flashy; 2017-02-01 at 10:17 PM.

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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    I actually like the idea that it's still a hoax substance and an entire Run goes awry because a couple free spirits were messing around with people to make them think otherwise.
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    I actually like the idea that it's still a hoax substance and an entire Run goes awry because a couple free spirits were messing around with people to make them think otherwise.
    Oh that's even more fun.

    Mostly I was thinking of metaphysics. Part of the problem, for me, is I don't think they're quite thought out...or if they were, the original ones may not have been used. First you get nukes not working in the Lone Eagle, then you get the Cermak blast working but strangely, and then you get thaumically enhanced warheads in Crash 2.0 that didn't actually go off IIRC. You'd think that'd be, ahem, rather heavily studied, since that's a rather large change in the way the universe works.

    But I think about weird things like that when I'm standing outside waiting for my bus. Others are "well why are the bugs more successful now than the Invae were in Earthdawn?" (Current working theory for that is a much greater proportion of the population in ED was Awakened, and thus that more people will express as the mana levels rise, though you'd think the Great Ghost Dance would have jacked that up too...or maybe it only cracked open the way for the bugs and other unhappy things to get here a little bit easier...)

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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Telwar View Post
    Oh that's even more fun.

    Mostly I was thinking of metaphysics. Part of the problem, for me, is I don't think they're quite thought out...or if they were, the original ones may not have been used. First you get nukes not working in the Lone Eagle, then you get the Cermak blast working but strangely, and then you get thaumically enhanced warheads in Crash 2.0 that didn't actually go off IIRC. You'd think that'd be, ahem, rather heavily studied, since that's a rather large change in the way the universe works.
    Are the Lone Eagle nukes not functioning a thing? I figured they didn't work because they were simply not as well maintained or armed as they might have wished, not for any metaphysical reason.

    But I think about weird things like that when I'm standing outside waiting for my bus. Others are "well why are the bugs more successful now than the Invae were in Earthdawn?" (Current working theory for that is a much greater proportion of the population in ED was Awakened, and thus that more people will express as the mana levels rise, though you'd think the Great Ghost Dance would have jacked that up too...or maybe it only cracked open the way for the bugs and other unhappy things to get here a little bit easier...)
    I'd say that you not only have a far greater portion of Awakened and greater knowledge of those sorts of threats, but you also had a lot smaller population. The Invae might take over a couple of towns, but you've got places like Seattle or Chicago, with millions of people, and it's a lot easier for them to build up numbers.
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    2E Question:

    Does vehicle armor stack with vehicle body to reduce the power of incoming fire? Per the rules, unarmored vehicles count their body value as ballistic and impact armor (incoming 12S round against a B/A: 6/0 vehicle gets reduced to 6M). If that vehicle was B/A: 6/3, would it be reduced to 3M? That's how I've always played it, but I just realized the book doesn't actually say that (p108).
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Torath View Post
    2E Question:

    Does vehicle armor stack with vehicle body to reduce the power of incoming fire? Per the rules, unarmored vehicles count their body value as ballistic and impact armor (incoming 12S round against a B/A: 6/0 vehicle gets reduced to 6M). If that vehicle was B/A: 6/3, would it be reduced to 3M? That's how I've always played it, but I just realized the book doesn't actually say that (p108).
    Mostly, as it ignores multiple rounds fired, per the barrier armor rules. I want to say that Rigger 2 might have changed the system a bit, to ignoring body and simply halving power and staging the wound level down one before comparing Armor and Armor alone (i.e. no Body-based armor; damage reduction was done entirely in scaling), but that may just be my memories of SR3 leaking into my memories of SR2.

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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by SaurOps View Post
    Mostly, as it ignores multiple rounds fired, per the barrier armor rules. I want to say that Rigger 2 might have changed the system a bit, to ignoring body and simply halving power and staging the wound level down one before comparing Armor and Armor alone (i.e. no Body-based armor; damage reduction was done entirely in scaling), but that may just be my memories of SR3 leaking into my memories of SR2.
    I don't have Rigger II, so I'm just going with the SRII rulebook.
    Last edited by Lord Torath; 2017-03-02 at 09:01 AM.
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Going back to my example, do you add the Body and Armor together, and then subtract from the Power of the weapon to determine the damage resistance target number (min 2) if the Power is greater than the Armor? (If the power is less than the armor, the shot bounces off) Do you use the higher of the two? Or is the Armor only used as a barrier rating, so if the power is greater the the armor, you still only subtract the Body to get the target number? Is the target number 6 or 3?

    Separate Question: Can you spend Good Karma to improve your contact's skills? I'm specifically thinking of the Fixer here, and her Equipment Acquisition skill. Would Equipment Acquisition be considered a social skill, and subject to influence via Tailored Pheromones?

    (Apologies for the double post, but it has been a couple of days, plus a new question)
    Last edited by Lord Torath; 2017-03-02 at 09:58 AM.
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    I've seen a 5e core book on sale. Is 5e a good version of Shadowrun, or is there a generally considered better one? If dubious, err on the side of streamlining.
    Last edited by Weimann; 2017-03-03 at 05:57 AM.
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Apparently 5E is a clunky mess chok full of nonsense rules....i dont know for sure as my group rarely plays Shadowrun any more and the person that runs it prefers 4E

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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Weimann View Post
    I've seen a 5e core book on sale. Is 5e a good version of Shadowrun, or is there a generally considered better one? If dubious, err on the side of streamlining.
    I prefer 2nd Edition myself, but then I've only glanced at 3rd, and haven't touched 4th or 5th (probably because I'd have to spend money on new books and learn a new system). As I understand it, Shadowrun edition changes are rather similar to AD&D edition changes. 2nd is pretty much a tweak of 1st Edition, and 3rd is a compilation and extrapolation of late 2E changes. 4E is a radical change from previous versions, and 5E is a cleaned-up return to previous versions. Keep in mind the extent of my familiarity with the later editions.

    If I were you, I'd wait to hear from someone who's actually played 4th and 5th for a good comparison.
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Personally, while I can see WHY they did it, I don't like the way they handled the matrix in 5e.

    Not that I'm overly experienced with it. To be honest. I've never even managed to get anyone to play 4e. Though I've read the books.
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Weimann View Post
    I've seen a 5e core book on sale. Is 5e a good version of Shadowrun, or is there a generally considered better one? If dubious, err on the side of streamlining.
    It really isn't. For a bit of context I've been gming Exalted 2.5 for three years now. Shadowrun 5e is still the worst cludge of ill thought out self contradicting rules that I have ever seen.
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    I, personally, liked 4e a lot.

    I've been dutifully collecting 5e, but I have no intention of running it. I'm not fond of the changes made (unlike 4e, where as much as I enjoyed 2e, I felt they were necessary), and the storyline seems just...lame.

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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Thanks for your input. :)

    I think I'll be passing on 5e, then. Perhaps I'll pick up 4e at some point instead.
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Might be too late to voice it but I actually like 5E
    While there are a whole lot of rules that are... questionable, and Technomancers are in need of a rework badly, I do enjoy some of the ideas they brought forward. Enough to say that with my usual attitude to rules (Anyone can call for them being used RAW, but unless they do, ruling many things not by RAW but by "yeah, close enough" - this style might require you to GM though, or find a GM with your play preferences.)

    What I like? The Matrix rules, actually are among them, getting Matrix jockeys more involved and having their stuff take place simultaneously with the rest of the group creates less of a complete split that I experienced in 4th (And if you have a bunch of players sitting around for 10 minutes doing nothing while in-game the hacker needs like 1, that creates rather awkward situations.) The lore for WHY it works that way is wonky at best, but this is Shadowrun. The lore is always wonky at best
    Nerfing of multiple actions per round (Easier to get the second (Possible without ware or any other buffs), kind of harder to get the third and fourth), because seriously, if you weren't the three-action Sam in 4th you basically just sit combats out, and they take a LONG time.
    So... more in the direction of "less waiting time for the group until that one guy is done with his stuff" and more "everyone can do something rather frequently" (Sure, if your character is useless in a fight, that kinda cancels that but hey. It would have anyways.)

    I do also like the base idea of what they did with Technomancers, btw. Making them their own thing instead of "Hacker, but differently", they now do have their own stuff which can do things Hackers wouldn't dream of, without making hackers completely useless. (Problem is, here, that in the process of ensuring the Hackers place or whatever they made the costs for that stuff basically unbearable. Also give us back Streams for non-dissonant ones. And Paragons. What were you thinking.)
    So, lots of good ideas, sometimes done alright, sometimes done well, and sometimes done weirdly. Streamlined it ain't, though.
    I would also like to point out I am doing all this from the German version of the game, so there might be differences through the translation. The German books are known for doing additional stuff.

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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    So, here's a question. I've been looking at different ideas for how to boost initiative in SR4.

    One of the ideas I'm toying with would require an adept with centering using full dive VR while acting physically with a -6 modifier.

    Now, centering could reduce some of that penalty, and something like enhanced articulation would help too.

    A high agility would cover the rest of the penalty. More than likely an elf build.

    I wasn't sure how viable the build would be, since it's not something I've ever seen proposed.

    I've got some other ideas too, but I'll leave this short for now.
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by SaurOps View Post
    Mostly, as it ignores multiple rounds fired, per the barrier armor rules. I want to say that Rigger 2 might have changed the system a bit, to ignoring body and simply halving power and staging the wound level down one before comparing Armor and Armor alone (i.e. no Body-based armor; damage reduction was done entirely in scaling), but that may just be my memories of SR3 leaking into my memories of SR2.
    Careful reading of the barrier rules say that you add the barrier rating to the armor rating if the power of the attack beats the barrier rating. So yes, you add the two together. Thus, in my example, the final damage code would be 3M.
    Thri-Kreen Ranger/Psionicist by me, based off of Rich's A Monster for Every Season

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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Weimann View Post
    Thanks for your input. :)

    I think I'll be passing on 5e, then. Perhaps I'll pick up 4e at some point instead.
    I think if you're coming at the game completely "unspoiled" by earlier edition, 5e isn't a bad place to start, actually. Not that it doesn't have glaring flaws and a huge bunch of issues, mechanics-wise, that's actually true. But so does every other edition of Shadowrun, in my experience. It's just that most older players have found the edition they're most comfortable with and have learned to live with its issues so they don't seem too bad.

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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    So, something I've always wondered from 4e. With how in depth Shadowrun get's into the whole logistical side of things. I wonder what it would be like to have a party that entirely forsakes direct action. Leaving that to grunts and proxies. And devotes their builds to logistics required to supply teams of grunts and proxies.

    Face and Hacker would probably survive the transition untouched. But what of the other roles? I feel like Medic, or at least cybersurgeon would come up as a new role.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarZero View Post
    I like the "hobo" in there.
    "Hey, you just got 10000gp! You going to buy a fully staffed mansion or something?"
    "Nah, I'll upgrade my +2 sword to a +3 sword and sleep in my cloak."

    Non est salvatori salvator, neque defensori dominus, nec pater nec mater, nihil supernum.

    Torumekian knight Avatar by Licoot.

    Note to self: Never get involved in an ethics thread again...Especially if I'm defending the empire.

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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

    Well Mages would still survive because Mages can do anything they want in SR (save for Hacker stuff, although actually in 4e it's not that hard to make a Matrix-savvy mage, although you usually want all the karma possible to go into magic stuff). Make it a summoning specialist and you have your little "grunt factory" right there.

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