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  1. - Top - End - #61
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Let's Read and also Play Baldur's Gate: Bhaal must be stopped!

    Wow.

    You know, the most surprising thing about the text as far as I can see is how the story swaps between passable, even nice, and mind-numbingly awfully bad. Seriously though. Everything around Jaheira is awful. A bat could write it better. Baldur's Gate is a great and fun game of high adventure and sorcery. And the story captures none of that. Seeing how bad it is, I kind of want to write it myself, just to show that it can be done better...

    But I also wanna play Baldur's Gate 2 so I think I'll do that instead.

    Thanks for an amusing update as always.

  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: Let's Read and also Play Baldur's Gate: Bhaal must be stopped!

    My head is spinning with theories how Athans could've come up with such a weird script.

    1) His friends played the story as D&D group. This is my go-to theory on all D&D products. Be it the Drizzt books (the Underdark parts being the extensive backstory, the actual older books being the campaign and the newer books being some kind of solo adventures since his group doesnt play anymore) or the Dreaming Dark trilogy of Baker (Jode the Jorasco healer being killed because his player left the campaign early, and with the Drow Amazon joining much later). Being of this nature you can explain all kinds of shenanigans by player whims. Jaheira & Khalid starting as couple because the players were a couple. Later on, the players cheat on each other and the stuff gets retconned. Abdel is the guy always up in the clouds not paying attention to his character. Sarevok is the DM's fetish for torture porn. Xan pays attention and ignores any and all people telling him that healing magic removes pain. He is hellbent on playing a snooty and tender elf. He has badgered the DM to get a Moonblade but won't use it anyhow.

    2) Athans wrote the script in chapters, then wrote numbers on small pieces of paper, tossed them in the air and arranged the chapters accordingly. He is a weird fellow. He believes in karmic writing and that the cosmos will make his first book a hit from pure coincidence rather than skilled arrangement. He writes and pours every ounce of his - often times conflicted - emotions into the book. He then arranges the chapters in an order he deems "harmonic". The poor editor tried to make it work but it only went well in a few parts. Honestly, a writer cannot be so all over the place with his quality, except he either didn't care or he had a co-writer.

    Then again, my writing isn't better:

    grazeful half-elf
    Spoiler
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    Stay strong out there. You need it. I know you can do it (so we won't have to).

  3. - Top - End - #63
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Let's Read and also Play Baldur's Gate: Bhaal must be stopped!

    Quote Originally Posted by Maryring View Post
    You know, the most surprising thing about the text as far as I can see is how the story swaps between passable, even nice, and mind-numbingly awfully bad. Seriously though. Everything around Jaheira is awful. A bat could write it better. Baldur's Gate is a great and fun game of high adventure and sorcery. And the story captures none of that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sporeegg View Post
    2) Athans wrote the script in chapters, then wrote numbers on small pieces of paper, tossed them in the air and arranged the chapters accordingly. He is a weird fellow. He believes in karmic writing and that the cosmos will make his first book a hit from pure coincidence rather than skilled arrangement. He writes and pours every ounce of his - often times conflicted - emotions into the book. He then arranges the chapters in an order he deems "harmonic". The poor editor tried to make it work but it only went well in a few parts. Honestly, a writer cannot be so all over the place with his quality, except he either didn't care or he had a co-writer.
    It really is striking how wildly the quality of the book swings between "awful" and "mildly acceptable." There are several reasons for this, I think. Part of it is the stupidly short deadline Athans was given - it's obvious in parts that this is a first draft sold as a finished product. The fact that this was his first long-form work probably doesn't help. You can tell that Athans is better with isolated scenes than with transitions. This update has a really blatant example.

    By the way, if either of you - or anyone else - wants to try their hand at rewriting a snippet from these books, feel free to post the result in this thread! Audience participation is part of the fun, after all, and rewriting bad fiction into something better is a good exercise.

    ---

    Also: So it's still Sunday in certain timezones, meaning I technically didn't miss my deadline. Technically. Sort of. Sorry! It's been a busy weekend.

    Spoiler: The game
    Show
    So for today's update, I managed to fix the issue of the duplicate mouse cursor, but in exchange, the footage quality has dropped back down to potato level. I'm learning a lot about recording video right now. Spirits willing, I'll find the right combination of settings eventually.

    From our little chat with Tranzig, we learned that the bandits are currently operating out of the woods near Peldvale or Larswood, both far to the north. We could go there next, but we're going to take a small detour.


    Screenshot

    ... not that small a detour, admittedly.


    Screenshot

    The area northwest of Nashkel is usually nicknamed the "Fisherman's Lake" because of Torlo and his buddy Chelan, who are trying to find a way to feed their families in the wake of the iron crisis. We do what we must, indeed.


    Screenshot

    The encounters here are barely worth mentioning - gnolls, hobgoblins, skeletons, that sort of thing. We're beyond the point where those can threaten us. There is a reason we came here, though:


    Screenshot

    Near the centre of the map, a stranger with voice acting is beset by gnolls.


    Screenshot

    Yes, that's Drizzt Do'Urden himself, making his legally mandated cameo appearance. He'll likely upstage your party during this encounter, slaughtering the gnolls without breaking a sweat.


    Screenshot

    So we have Xan upstage him by knocking out 70% of the gnolls with a level one spell. Nyeh nyeh.


    Screenshot

    Post-battle, you can have a short chat with Drizzt about the local bandit problem, if you're nice to him.


    Screenshot

    This is the only real hint that you can, in fact, take a less-lethal approach regarding the bandit camp. I don't think you actually have to talk to Drizzt to get the option, but it lets you know it's there. The fact that the 'bandits' have professional mercenary groups fighting for them certainly suggests something fishy is going on.

    Drizzt also serves as the game's secret bonus boss. He isn't one of the game's invulnerable essential characters - you can fight and kill him normally. He is extremely overpowered, being a 16th level INNOCENT, which apparently translates to 92 HP, an AC of -10, a THAC0 of 0 and 98% magic resistance.

    If you can pull it off, he does carry some of the best equipment in the game. It requires cheesy tactics, though, like exploiting the game's dodgy pathfinding. We won't be fighting Drizzt, in part because I just don't think it's a fun fight. Also, let's be nice.

    Fun fact: If you can somehow overcome his various resistances, he too has special-if-useless Charm dialogue.

    I should like to travel with you a while, friend, but I've places I must be. A pleasure meeting you. [leaves]
    Let's go do that thing Drizzt suggested.


    Screenshot

    We learned from Tranzig that the bandit camp is near Peldvale or Larswood. Which one you visit is entirely up to you - both places are crawling with bandits. We'll head to Peldvale.

    Hey, who's this?


    Screenshot

    Two elves in need of aid in one day. What're the odds?


    Screenshot

    The justice system of the Sword Coast is... somewhat informal, as you can see. The Flaming Fist is a mercenary company that serves as the Sword Coast's de facto police force, but this guy is just blatantly a douchebag.


    Screenshot

    The fight against the mercenary is literally not worth showing. Once he's dead, Viconia thanks you for rescuing her, and offers to join your party. We'll take her up on that and say goodbye to Branwen - we did help her get revenge on Tranzig after all, so her personal arc is as complete as it'll ever get. She doesn't exist in the books, but hey, guest stars.


    Screenshot

    Viconia really doesn't have the stats to participate in melee combat, but she's pretty good with a sling and she can cast Cure Light Wounds with the best of them.


    Screenshot

    Also, she's a drow! Viconia is one of those characters who will receive a lot of expansion in the sequels, but for now, this is all we get.

    We continue exploring Peldvale.


    Screenshot

    The bandits don't give us much trouble. However: As Drizzt suspected, there are some Black Talon mercenaries among the alleged bandits.


    Screenshot

    Point in case. The Black Talon Elites are the mid-game's equivalent of kobold commandos - ranged weapons, magic arrows, entirely capable of ruining your day.


    Screenshot

    But that's why we keep Xan around!


    Screenshot

    You know, I'm really starting to appreciate the elf. We make it through the fight without casulties and get some magic arrows for our trouble.


    Screenshot

    Eventually, we encounter Raiken, a Black Talon commander who is willing to parley. Let's try to do what Drizzt suggested. (Charming results in a little bit of exposition where he explains that "[their] job is to raid all of the iron caravans on route along the Coast Way," but no invitation to the camp. So we do actually have to talk.)


    Screenshot

    This is one of those dialogue trees where your choice is actually meaningful. Let's see - we can't reveal insider knowledge of the bandits' operation, or Raiken will realize that we're up to no good, so option #1 is out. Our goal is to convince Raiken that we're capable of pulling our weight, so #2 is out as well. At the same time, he's a professional, not a slaughterer. If we come across as too bloodthirsty, he might see us as a liability. Option #4 it is.


    Screenshot

    There we go! Raiken takes us along to the main camp for stage two of our job interview. (For the record, option #3 also works if your STR is above a certain threshold, which I guess is the AD&D equivalent of an Intimidate roll.)


    Screenshot

    The bandit camp receives another of these fun little CGI intro-movies. This is a good cut-off point - we'll handle the bandit camp itself next time.


    Spoiler: The book
    Show
    We rejoin our heroes shortly after dawn. They have horses, thanks to Abdel.

    “We have horses,” Khalid said, “thanks to Abdel.”
    “Arm wrestling,” the big man said. “What an odd pastime.”
    Khalid smiled and looked pointedly at Jaheira, who was admiring Abdel’s powerful arm.
    I guess they're just moving on to an open relationship at this point. Team Abdel is loitering outside the Red Sheaf, waiting for Tranzig. Thankfully, Tranzig also has a habit of getting up early, sparing us further banter.

    The elf pointed at a short, stocky fighter whose stubbly red hair shined in the feeble morning sunlight. It was Tranzig, and he was mounting a fast-looking horse on the street outside the still-sleeping Red Sheaf inn.
    "Fast-looking." That's the adjective we're going with, huh? Alright. Tranzig rides off in the general direction of Baldur's Gate. The group follows him at a respectful distance, tracking him by way of hoofprints in the muddy road.

    If you're keeping score, Tranzig is another character that was a mage in the game but is a fighter in the book. It's a harmless change, since Tranzig is such a minor character, but it is once again part of that weird pattern.

    You know, it's rather convenient that Abdel was able to arm-wrestle up a set of horses capable of keeping up with Tranzig. Good horses are expensive, especially when there's a refugee exodus going on. Did this involve another doppelganger? Did Sarevok dispatch a fake rich guy to make sure Team Abdel ends up with horses able to follow the fake Tranzig? Are the horses doppelgangers?

    ... anyway, an hour in, Team Abdel rolls on the encounter table and gets a random encounter. In case you're wondering: No, it's not bandits. (It's never bandits.)

    They were just dots far ahead on the open plain when Xan spotted them and drew the others’ attention to the figures. Six people on foot, crossing the ragged grass, were moving slowly toward the road. (...) A thin line of mud showed where a path once led from the road to the columned structure that might have once been a temple.
    Jaheira suggests to avoid them if possible. Abdel expresses doubt that it is possible to avoid a small group of slow pedestrians, in easy terrain, while on horseback.

    Abdel nodded at the simple, safe logic of what Jaheira said, but he didn’t hold out much hope for the outcome.
    * * * * *
    Abdel’s horse took the first hit and went down screaming.
    Once again: That's exactly how it appears in the book. This rather sudden transition neatly(?) sidesteps the issue of how, exactly, the group failed to avoid the 'pilgrims.' Or how said pilgrims managed to ambush our heroes when they very clearly saw them coming. Athans, it appears, really isn't comfortable doing transitions.

    Abdel, Jaheira and Xan dismount more or less gracefully. Their horses either escape or die. Goodbye, horses.

    Abdel had no name for these hideous man-shaped creatures. They were covered in—seemed to be made of—some kind of transparent olive-green semiliquid. There were six of them, the wouldbe pilgrims. Abdel could see their skeletons through the slime. (...) The monsters came at them with hands held high and apart as if they meant to embrace their victims.
    The slimes vaguely coordinate their attacks - three of them go for Abdel while the remaining three spread out equally. Abdel beheads two of them. Slime sticks to his sword and armour, but nothing gets on his skin. That's smart - these are pretty clearly supposed to be green slimes, which are straight-up terrible monsters with an instadeath attack.

    Xan and Jaheira hold their ground without trouble but Khalid is hard-pressed, getting backed up against his panicking horse. (Wouldn't a spooked horse just run off? I don't think horses freeze when afraid. Eh.)

    “Khalid!” Jaheira screamed. Abdel heard footsteps — heavy, fast, but irregular — in the grass to his right. He had to keep his eyes on the creature still swiping at his knees. He heard a thick, bubbly splash and knew that one of the others had taken a creature down. “Khalid!” Xan shouted. There was a ring of desperation in the elf’s voice that Abdel didn’t like at all.
    Abdel stabs his third slime. It splashes down into a puddle but refuses to die. Abdel tries and fails to pull his sword free.

    It was as if striking them with a blade only dropped them out of their humanoid form but made them no less capable of attacking. In what must have been their native form, could they be cut at all?
    I'm not sure why the slimes can be cut when they're pretending to be humanoid, but that's not important right now. What is important is that Jaheira actually gets to do something relevant:

    Jaheira began a mumbling chant, and both Abdel and Xan backed off quickly at the sound of it. The pool of slime still advancing on Abdel formed a thick tentacle and drew it back as if to strike. Abdel held up his fists, still not sure how to defend himself against this thing, and then Jaheira stopped speaking, and the slime stopped moving at the same time.

    (...)

    “By Mielikki’s grace,” she said, “they won’t be able to move for a few minutes.”
    Specifically, Jaheira gets to save the group by casting her second spell. Cheers! (People recommend using Web against green slimes, but I don't think druids actually get access to Web. I'd say Hold Animal but the narrative mentions that Jaheira is able to deal with them because they're technically plants(?). Maybe a houseruled take on Entangle. Eh.)

    Unfortunately, Khalid has gone missing. The group goes to search him in the direction of the ruined temple.

    “Why did he run?” Xan asked, not expecting an answer.
    “It got on him,” Jaheira said, her voice quivering. “That... stuff, that slime got on him. What was that? What were those things?”
    Abdel shook his head, not sure what to say. Seeing Jaheira like this, in an emotional panic, made him feel like he did the right thing in pushing her away, but that made it no less painful for him.
    Pff, women, am I right? Always worrying about death during combat. Always falling into an emotional panic when their husband goes missing during a melee, and then shouting to see if they're still alive. Why can't they be more logic like men? Good thing Abdel got out while he could.

    There was another rustle of leaves, and Abdel sighed. “Damned squirrels,” he muttered and stepped forward and up onto a crooked paving stone. The stone collapsed at the same instant that Khalid — or what was Khalid — burst through the vegetation and lunged at him.
    Abdel dodges the attack, re-drawing his sword. Jaheira... well...

    Jaheira screamed. It was a painful, desperate, horrified, purely female sound, and it made Abdel’s heart flip in his chest.
    Now I just feel like a fool because this is so much more deserving of caustic sarcasm than the "emotional panic" thing. Oh well.

    Khalid is dissolving rapidly from the inside out, and his skin is turning translucent. It's... a bad way to go. The writing's actually decent, so if you're squeamish, this isn't the chapter for you.

    Khalid’s left eye was gone, his right was dissolving rapidly after having slid into the mass of slimy material that was once his head. There was no trace of brain in there, and Abdel knew his friend was dead.
    No word on whether he makes a desperate, horrified, purely male sound during the process. Abdel slices and stabs at the slime, and it loses coherence but refuses to either die or retreat. The group watches with a mixture of fascination and despair. Finally, Abdel has an idea.

    Abdel dug into his pouch with one shaking hand and brought out the vial he’d purchased in Nashkel. (...) He threw the contents of the vial onto the puddle of quivering ooze that was even now moving to embrace him. He looked away, holding his breath.
    “Oh,” Jaheira groaned, “oh no, Khalid...”
    The slime sizzled away, sending acrid smoke into the air of the crumbling temple. Abdel sat there with his eyes closed, just listening to Jaheira cry.
    “How did you know that would work?” Xan asked him after a time. “The acid, I mean.”
    Abdel shrugged, sighed heavily, and didn’t look the elf in the eye when he said, “I know how to kill people. I always know how to kill people.”
    For the record, this last part works quite well at hinting at Abdel's nature. Instinctive knowledge of how to kill something is a totally plausible Bhaalspawn power. (It's a little bit of a waste, since the narrative has thoroughly spoilered us, but hey.)

    What a chapter.


    Spoiler: Comparison and commentary
    Show
    So this is the end of Khalid. We talked about the impermanence of death in D&D-inspired fiction before, but this death is about as final as they come. There isn't even a corpse left, which means we're in True Resurrection territory here. Mechanically speaking, this is a good way to do permadeath.

    Narratively speaking... Khalid dies during a random encounter and that's kind of a great summary for his character. The half-elf may be dead now, but he was never really in this book. Consider this: He was part of the group for a good third of the book's length. In this time, he spoke a grand total of 45 lines (I counted). Last chapter's conversation with Jaheira accounts for just under 40% of those lines. Another third of Khalid's lines are spoken during his introduction. In between these chapters, Khalid barely exists. Sometimes the narrative takes a moment to remind us that he's there. That's pretty much it.

    I should also note that Khalid never actually does anything. He talks to Abdel in chapter 4. He gets stabbed by Abdel in chapter 6 and healed in chapter 8. He has a discussion with Jaheira in chapter 12. This chapter contains the only fight he actually participates in, but even his last stand takes place mostly offscreen. He dies during a glorified random encounter that's entirely disconnected from everything else, and it's sadly fitting.

    So what's the take-away message here? Khalid was included because he's one of the few NPCs actually relevant to the plot, but it seems the author didn't really want him in the narrative. To me, this is another of these oddities that make the book feel like a first draft - Athans started out with Khalid in the group but couldn't really find anything for him to do. Rather than putting his foot down and just writing him out, Athans nominally included Khalid (perhaps as a nod do the game), then killed him off. I guess he can consider himself lucky that Khalid actually does die between Baldur's Gate and Shadows of Amn.

    Something else that's notable is that Jaheira's competence and spellcasting ability is all over the place, as is the book's general faithfulness to D&D mechanics. The fight against the green slimes is accurate, but Jaheira shows no signs of having access to Slow Poison or any other sort of curative magic. I guess it makes the narrative Grittier (with a capital G) if healing is hard to come by, but the protagonists seem to still receive full heals in between each encounter. Jaheira also saves everyone during the fight against the green slimes, but then the narrative starts dunking on her "emotional panics" and her "purely female" anguish.

    Part of the reason this feels so off is, perhaps, due the differences between interactive and non-interactive fiction. Khalid doesn't have many lines in Baldur's Gate either, and most of them are during his introduction, but the Khalid of the game still feels much more real than the Khalid of the book. The main reason for this is gameplay. Khalid participates in combat, you manage his equipment, you have him chug healing potions, you listen to his selection quotes, you groan inwardly when he fails another morale check. That sort of thing. His introduction and biography provide a broad outline while game mechanics handle the rest. It's the same for Jaheira, but the differences are more glaring because Game!Jaheira is actually a pretty good character whereas Book!Jaheira is... not.

    There's a longer discussion here, but we'll be returning to this theme in the future. We'll see if Athans fares better if he only has to manage three protagonists.

  4. - Top - End - #64
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Let's Read and also Play Baldur's Gate: Bhaal must be stopped!

    So, I'm curious- Are you going to kill Khalid off around this point, or let him stick around? I'm also somewhat curious if Athans is going to add a fourth NPC (but at this point in the story, who's left? Yeslick? Tiax? Quayle?)
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  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: Let's Read and also Play Baldur's Gate: Bhaal must be stopped!

    I keep changing my mind about it. On one hand, I want to try to keep the LP relatively close to the LR because it makes for a clearer contrast. On the other hand, keeping to a 'book party' will become exceedingly painful to play (especially in the sequel) so I'm not sure if I want to set that precedent.

    This is a genuine spoiler, so I'll both ROT13 and spoiler tag it. Unscramble at your own risk.

    Spoiler: You were warned
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    Gur cnegl bayl qjvaqyrf sebz urer. Gur cnegl crnxf ng svir (Noqry, Xunyvq, Wnurven, Zbagneba, Kmne), gura sbhe (Noqry, Xunyvq, Wnurven, Kna), gura guerr (Noqry, Wnurven, Kna / Noqry, Wnurven, Lrfyvpx), gura gjb (Noqry, Wnurvn), gura bar (Noqry).

  6. - Top - End - #66
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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Let's Read and also Play Baldur's Gate: Bhaal must be stopped!

    RIP Khalid, you weren't the greatest fighter or character ever, but you didn't deserve this.

  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: Let's Read and also Play Baldur's Gate: Bhaal must be stopped!

    Especially in light of the fact that you've already been significantly at variance from the book, i.e., playing "Abdel" as a good person rather than a violent idiot, my advice is to just keep on the way you have been.

    (Otherwise...well, I wish you all the luck in the world fighting Balthazar and Melissan completely alone as a single-classed fighter, 'cause I think you'll need it.)

  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Default Re: Let's Read and also Play Baldur's Gate: Bhaal must be stopped!

    I'd say as long as the relative characters from the book are around, the other slots can be as filled or empty as you want.
    ~ZA

  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: Let's Read and also Play Baldur's Gate: Bhaal must be stopped!

    Spoiler: Throne of Bhaal novel
    Show
    I also don't think you should feel any obligation to kill off Imoen while fighting Sendai or Jaheira and Sarevok while fighting Abazigal.

  10. - Top - End - #70
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    Default Re: Let's Read and also Play Baldur's Gate: Bhaal must be stopped!

    Regarding Khalid: I have always felt that he is just a playable NPC from Jaheira's backstory - and this mistake was corrected in Shadows of Amn. I would've felt constructed that Jaheira's fellow Harper and husband would be absent during Baldur's Gate so they included him. His role was to underline Jaheira's strength of will with contrast. He is good-hearted and willing but not as strong as Jaheira. Maybe his goals are more naive (he is NG while Jaheira is TN), maybe his methods are more gentle. And while this makes me question the interactions between Dynaheir and Minsc as well as Xzar and Montaron, this is my best explanation for this.

    My 12 y/o self playing BG for the first time thought to himself that Khalid is maybe subject to domestic violence as I found it odd for Jaheira to not also be good. And not the kinky violence, the jarring and real violence. Jaheira's lines are mostly sarcastic (yes, oh omnipresent authority figure?) as if she cannot accept someone guiding her path while Khalid appears to be constantly flinching and shaking.

    As for Khalid's hamfisted removal from the adventure: Is there a reason Athans needs Khalid to be absent other than to quickly change to romance between Abdel and Jaheira? As cold hearted as I imagine her book version she will probably sleep with Abdel before Khalid's remains are cold.

  11. - Top - End - #71
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    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: Let's Read and also Play Baldur's Gate: Bhaal must be stopped!

    “Arm wrestling,” the big man said. “What an odd pastime.”
    Is this implying that the experienced mercenary thug has never heard of the concept of arm-wrestling before?

    Also,
    Khalid smiled and looked pointedly at Jaheira, who was admiring Abdel’s powerful arm.
    I just don't know what to say about this, other than that I'm litteraly LOLing as I type.

  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Default Re: Let's Read and also Play Baldur's Gate: Bhaal must be stopped!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wardog View Post
    Is this implying that the experienced mercenary thug has never heard of the concept of arm-wrestling before?
    It is obviously insinuating that Abdel is far too intellectual to....sorry, I can't finish this sentence.

  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Default Re: Let's Read and also Play Baldur's Gate: Bhaal must be stopped!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wardog View Post
    Is this implying that the experienced mercenary thug has never heard of the concept of arm-wrestling before?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sporeegg View Post
    It is obviously insinuating that Abdel is far too intellectual to....sorry, I can't finish this sentence.
    My pet theory is that Abdel isn't technically a Bhaalspawn, but a golem built by Bhaal in his spare time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sporeegg View Post
    Regarding Khalid: I have always felt that he is just a playable NPC from Jaheira's backstory - and this mistake was corrected in Shadows of Amn. I would've felt constructed that Jaheira's fellow Harper and husband would be absent during Baldur's Gate so they included him. His role was to underline Jaheira's strength of will with contrast. He is good-hearted and willing but not as strong as Jaheira. Maybe his goals are more naive (he is NG while Jaheira is TN), maybe his methods are more gentle. And while this makes me question the interactions between Dynaheir and Minsc as well as Xzar and Montaron, this is my best explanation for this.

    My 12 y/o self playing BG for the first time thought to himself that Khalid is maybe subject to domestic violence as I found it odd for Jaheira to not also be good. And not the kinky violence, the jarring and real violence. Jaheira's lines are mostly sarcastic (yes, oh omnipresent authority figure?) as if she cannot accept someone guiding her path while Khalid appears to be constantly flinching and shaking.

    As for Khalid's hamfisted removal from the adventure: Is there a reason Athans needs Khalid to be absent other than to quickly change to romance between Abdel and Jaheira? As cold hearted as I imagine her book version she will probably sleep with Abdel before Khalid's remains are cold.
    Well, technically, Khalid doesn't have remains, but other than that... yeah, pretty much.

    One problem interesting challenge with dissecting Baldur's Gate 1 is that the NPCs receive so little characterisation. You have their introduction, their biographies and between zero and two character-specific mini-dialogues. Everything else comes from game mechanics.

    I had a hell of a time trying to unearth anything specific on the relationship between Khalid and Jaheira. If you approach certain NPCs with one but not the other in your group, they offer their condolences. Their mini-dialogues have Jaheira gently teasing Khalid (but the "gently" mostly comes from the voice acting). We know that Jaheira is headstrong, dedicated and driven whereas Khalid is gentler, less confrontational and kind of a coward. That's it. BG 2 gave the two a lot of retroactive characterisation, and it's very difficult not to look at them through that lens. Most "common knowledge" about Jaheira and especially Khalid comes either from the sequel, from fanon or from the more revisionist parts of the Enhanced Edition. There's just enough material there to let you read something into the characters.

    Your 12 y/o self's take is darker than most, but it's a good example of just how wide the spectrum of possible interpretations is. There are just so many unanswered questions. (Why did Khalid take up Harper work if he jumps at his own shadow? Why is Jaheira True Neutral? ... well, because she's a druid and this is AD&D, but still.)

    I might not actually mind Athans' take on Khalid so much if it was more consistent. He starts out portraying Khalid as a man deeply uncomfortable in his own skin, a "quiet serious type on a mission" and a sort of Harper workaholic, but he doesn't stick with it. Actually using Khalid for something might've also been a good idea. (His take on Jaheira is a different matter, because his Jaheira is genuinely awful, but we'll have plenty of time to discuss that.)

  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Default Re: Let's Read and also Play Baldur's Gate: Bhaal must be stopped!

    Half the time, I find a way to separate* or kill him to get a better dude, so I can understand.

    This time I didn't, and while he is decent, his morale checks still suck.

    * separating trick: go to a multifloor building. Leave him on floor you are unlikely to return. Click disjoin party. Since he isn't able to say goodbye, his wife stays.

    Spoiler
    Show

    Sadly, I can't find the bandit area after the camp (game had a bug and cloakwood part 4 doesn't lead to the Mine like it should).

    So I'm doing the Durlag Tower side quest till I figure out what issue is.
    I double checked scrolls at bandit camp, not that. Left every direction of each cloakwood. Can't figure it out...

  15. - Top - End - #75
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    Default Re: Let's Read and also Play Baldur's Gate: Bhaal must be stopped!

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck_II View Post
    Half the time, I find a way to separate* or kill him to get a better dude, so I can understand.

    This time I didn't, and while he is decent, his morale checks still suck.

    * separating trick: go to a multifloor building. Leave him on floor you are unlikely to return. Click disjoin party. Since he isn't able to say goodbye, his wife stays.
    Splitting paired characters is a venerable tradition in BG. Getting one of them turned to stone or chunky salsa'd also works, but this is less cruel. Khalid seems to be a popular target, since Jaheira is decent while he's just kind of forgettable.

    ---

    On to today's update! Chapter 14 covers the bandit camp, and we can finally get the book and the game synchronized again. The first few screenshots are left over from last week's recording, but after that, we should notice a significant jump in quality. (Or maybe I'm just seeing things. I don't even know anymore.)

    Spoiler: The game
    Show
    So the verdict's in: Khalid will stay in our party despite having died in the book. I'll make sure that every character from the book ends up in our party, but I'll fill the remaining slots with NPCs I want to show off. This isn't a completionist run, so my choice of party members will be... well, entirely arbitrary, probably.

    Last time, we convinced Raiken to let us join the cause. Not everyone is happy with his decision...


    Screenshot

    ... including, unfortunately, Tazok himself. For the record, there's another bandit you can convince to take you to the camp. Raiken defends you more strongly, but it doesn't really make a difference.


    Screenshot

    This is another opportunity for things to go south. We take a slightly aggressive approach with Tazok, and he decides to get some firsthand impressions of our combat readiness.


    Screenshot

    Tazok is pretty dangerous, but he's just a melee fighter without any fancy tricks up his sleeves. Actually, I think his outfit doesn't even have sleeves. Deal enough damage to impress him, and he lets you join up. It's a little odd that Tazok and Kivan don't react to each other at all, but the ranger's blood oath of vengeance doesn't seem to exist outside of his biography.


    Screenshot

    In early versions of the game, it's possible to kill Tazok here. The game doesn't acknowledge it, but it's possible. I miss the days when 'essential character' flags weren't yet a thing.


    Screenshot

    Anyway, we have the run of the camp now. Let's start poking our noses where they don't belong. The Chill's humanoid mercenaries keep to the west side of the camp, while the Black Talons hang out to the east. Let's check out the Chill people first.


    Screenshot

    Most of the locals are generic bandits that have neither dialogue nor names. As a result, "Chill Hobgoblin" here is, in fact, not particularly chill.


    Screenshot

    Some of the tents have interesting stuff in them, though! Tersus here acts as a quartermaster of sorts.


    Screenshot

    He does, in fact, give each character in your group a set of regular nonmagical leather armour. Hey, free stuff.


    Screenshot

    You may have noticed that we only see hobgoblins wandering outside, but the Chill hires gnolls as well. They're kept separate from the rest of the camp as they tend to be a little overly aggressive. You can go inside and fight or release them if you wish.


    Screenshot

    Back outside, there's Ardenor Crush with a small retinue. You can pick a fight with him if you want, though you don't have to. There's very little benefit to doing so as he doesn't carry anything interesting and doesn't grant too much XP. Compared to the Black Talons, the Chill definitely comes across as rather small-time.


    Screenshot

    He does have unique Charm dialogue, though! This one triggers a journal entry, too, as Ardenor outright confirms the Iron Throne is behind this, not the Zhentarim.

    That about does it for the west side of the camp. Ardenor's counterpart is hanging out a little further to the east.


    Screenshot

    Taugosz, too, is an optional boss. Unlike Ardenor, he is pretty tough, and he's wearing one of the game's few sets of Full Plate Mail. If you don't mind taking a relatively lethal approach, and you think you can take him and his minions, he's well worth fighting.


    Screenshot

    His Charm dialogue also mirrors Ardenor's. He takes a moment to brag about his War Hammer +1, then explains the way the false flag scheme works.

    There is one more notable encounter on the east side of camp:


    Screenshot

    Knott here acts tough, but is easily intimidated. Don't worry about blowing your cover - he's far too scared to alert Taugosz. (Also, he kind of vanishes from the game once you're done talking to him.)


    Screenshot

    He tells you a little bit about the camp, though it's mostly things you could've figured out on your own. The only new thing you really learn is that Tazok keeps a prisoner.


    Screenshot

    Somehow, CHARNAME wrings a lengthy paragraph out of this encounter. I always wondered how CHARNAME's companions felt about their downright obsessive note-taking habits. It actually gets worse in BG II, as CHARNAME starts to index and cross-reference diary entries by topic, but even in the first game they stop to scribble down a paragraph every five minutes. You really can tell that CHARNAME grew up in a library - they always seem to be narrating an adventure novel in their head.

    Baldur's Gate is ultimately a bog-standard RPG (in part because it defines our notion of what a bog-standard RPG is), but CHARNAME always comes across as a little detached and self-critical in their journals. This, I think, is part of the reason I find Abdel so frustrating. He just lacks CHARNAME's style.

    Anyway, we should probably actually go check out that huge tent.


    Screenshot

    A bandit named Credus stops us as we approach, smelling an opportunity to fob off guard duty on the new guy. I'm pretty sure he got the job the same way. Ahh, office politics.


    Screenshot

    The tent itself doesn't look particularly inviting, given it's decorated with partially-skinned skeletons. I guess that does probably discourage snooping.


    Screenshot

    You know what, let's take a moment to buff before continuing. The Chant, Bless, Remove Fear package doesn't do anything dramatic, but it's just super nice to have. (I did mess up the castings a little and Viconia's magic resistance prevented Remove Fear from working on her.)


    Screenshot

    As soon as we step inside, a guard stops us and we have a fight on our hands. This is another proper boss fight. There's a party waiting for us, consisting of Raemon, Venkt, Britik and Hakt. The frontline fighters Raemon and Britik aren't too threatening, but Hakt (hobgoblin archer) and Venkt (human mage) are real problems. Hakt in particular is technically a hobgoblin elite, which means his arrows are poisonous.


    Screenshot

    In short, this seems like a good opportunity to use that scroll of Stinking Cloud we've been saving. Xan can't learn the spell anyway.


    Screenshot

    Raemon and Britik go down with relatively little trouble, and Hakt gets knocked out by the Cloud. Unfortunately, Venkt makes his save while our fighters fail theirs, so this turns into a caster vs. archers fight.


    Screenshot

    It's not as lopsided as you might think. Venkt makes good use of Melf's Acid Arrow and he has access to some decent defensive magic.


    Screenshot

    Eventually, though, he succumbs to repeated castings of Larloch's Minor Drain. We wait for the Cloud to clear, then start looting the place.


    Screenshot

    The guards carry some mildly decent loot, but Hakt's Longbow of Marksmanship is the real deal. Also, it has a mildly funny name. It took me years to realise that "The Dead Shot" is kind of a pun.


    Screenshot

    Note the banners hanging in the place. Clearly, the Black Talon and the Chill see no reason to disguise their presence.

    Anyway, the guards are dead, so let's talk to the prisoner.


    Screenshot

    I'm not sure why Ender thought we might've been with Tazok, since we just killed four of Tazok's elite guards in front of him. I'm just going to blame this one on vapors from the Stinking Cloud. (Actually, a common fan theory is that he's meant to be tied up and blindfolded, which the engine just can't show.)


    Screenshot

    If you fought your way into the camp rather than infiltrating it, and didn't talk to Drizzt, you might not be aware that there's something fishy going on with the bandits. Ender Sai helpfully clears that one up. I think it's pretty interesting that he's aware of the events in the mines of Nashkel. Thus, between him and Xan, there were at least two independent investigators who found out the truth behind the ore poisonings and came close to blowing the scheme open. We're not the only ones on the Iron Throne's trail - just the first group to succeed.


    Screenshot

    Ender, in particular, has done his homework. Being aware whose toes have or haven't stepped on is a vital survival skill in the Gate. He's not quite 100% right - Crush and Taugosz actually know they're really working for the Iron Throne - but the fact of the matter is that the Iron Throne is engineering a false flag operation.


    Screenshot

    Ender points us to the documents in the chest behind him, then flees. The chest is trapped, but we don't currently have a rogue in our party, so we just have Abdel open it and tank the resulting lightning bolt. (For the record, the bandit camp is full of locked chests. The purple potion you can buy in Nahskel comes in handy here. While it makes your character relatively useless in combat, it does set your STR to 25, which is more than enough to force the locks open.)

    There are two documents of note. The first one is about us, and explains where that Nimbul guy came from. This also confirms that our little adventure in Nashkel caused enough damage to force the Iron Throne to take us seriously.


    Screenshot

    This Davaeorn fellow seems to be Tazok's superior, but the letter mentions that he's handing down instructions from his boss. We're essentially working our way through the Iron Throne's middle management - Davaeorn is just the next layer up. Also, note that Davaeorn is clever enough to not name the superiors in his letters.


    Screenshot

    The second letter chews Tazok out for his bad job performance, and confirms that the Cloakwood is our next destination. It also mentions someone called "Sarevok" who is taking a personal interest in our wellbeing. Or, rather, lack thereof. Hmm.


    Screenshot

    CHARNAME takes a moment to order their thoughts (and summarize the plot in case you haven't been paying attention.) Questions after questions indeed. Reading the letters also the transition to the next chapter.


    Screenshot

    Let's see what the next layer of mystery has in store for us. ... in a few updates, that is. If we're going to journey into a place as forbidding as the Cloakwood, we need to prepare carefully.


    Spoiler: The book
    Show

    They’d mounted and rode on in complete silence. The cool breeze hissed through the dry grass. Birds and bees and mosquitoes made the only living noises. Even Jaheira had stopped crying. Abdel looked at her occasionally, confused by her livid emotions. Her eyes were red, and the skin of her face both puffy and taut. He was afraid she might explode. She looked like she might explode.
    Confused by her livid emotions. Geez. Lines like this make me wonder if there might be something to my Abdel-is-a-golem theory. Otherwise, this isn't actually a bad way to open the chapter. Athans over-eggs things with Jaheira's livid emotions, but I like it otherwise.

    The group soldiers on, in silence, as Khalid's absence is felt. They haven't caught sight of Tranzig in hours, but his trail is still there. In the meantime, Abdel tries to sift through his feelings on the situation.

    That wasn’t a way for a man to die, reduced to jelly then burned away with acid poured on him from his wife’s — what? Not lover, but something. She was something to him. The kind of relationship they had might have had a name in the civilized courts of someplace like Waterdeep, but in Abdel’s experience they were only —
    His thoughts piled into each other and burst apart as he pulled his horse to a sudden, bone-jarring stop.
    Abdel's train of thought is always interrupted mid-sentence by something. I guess the universe just has a short attention span. This time, it was Abdel's spider-sense warning him that the group accidentally caught up to Tranzig, who is resting and tending to his horse just ahead. Tranzig fails to notice them, and when he starts to move again, Abdel notices some drifting trails of smoke.

    “Cook fires,” he whispered. He followed his friends’ gazes back to the smoke and saw a star break through a gap in the relentless clouds. Night was coming fast, so Abdel fixed the site of the cook fires in his mind as best he could and led Jaheira and Xan down the hill to camp.
    They don't build a fire on Xan's urging, for fear of drawing attention from the bandits. As a result, the night is cold and miserable. (I'm genuinely uncertain as to which season this is supposed to be. We never do hear about the weather, the state of the trees or the way people dress. Cold nights, foggy mornings and muddy roads could suggest spring or autumn, I guess.)

    They take a moment to discuss strategy. Abdel suggests that the three of them can probably take a group of bandits with the element of surprise on their side. Xan argues that, for all they know, there are hundreds of bandits in the camp.

    “They’re trying to start a war,” Abdel said. “If they have an army, why would they be sneaking around pouring potions on iron ore?”
    “I can go there,” Xan offered, “in the dark, quietly, look around, and find out.”
    “And get yourself killed,” Jaheira said quietly, “or worse.”
    “I’ve been a prisoner of the Iron Throne before,” the elf said.
    “That’s what I’m afraid of,” Abdel said. “No offense, Xan, you’re an excellent swordsman and a good man, but...”
    “But what?”
    “We need you,” Jaheira answered for Abdel. “Now more than ever.”
    Xan smiled sympathetically and caught Jaheira’s exhausted, red-eyed gaze. “I’m an elf,” he said simply.
    This, for the record, is why I think the Xan of the books is a rogue. Jaheira offers him her bracelet, for luck. Xan salutes them, then slips into the shadows, leaving Abdel and Jaheira alone.

    She started to cry, and Abdel moved next to her. She seemed tiny in his huge embrace. She didn’t cry very long, and Abdel just sat there with her in his arms and was surprised that it felt so familiar, like he was supposed to hold her like that.
    “We’ve lied to you,” she whispered.
    “I know,” he said, though he hadn’t thought about it at all.
    “All of us.”
    “I know,” he whispered, and she cried some more.
    I'll say this much: Jaheira’s grief feels real. There are still problems with this section - for example, nothing actually comes of her admission here - but this is decent writing.

    Abdel and Jaheira huddle against each other and eventually fall asleep like that. They awaken to a bright blue sky and a notable absence of sneaky elves.

    Still asleep, she shifted, bending her right knee so that it slid up the length of Abdel’s leg. His body reacted, and his eyes came open. He cleared his throat and shifted, waking her. She seemed startled by the proximity, and he gently drew away just as she did. She was blushing. She was beautiful.
    (...)
    “Where’s Xan?” she asked, her voice as soft as her skin.
    (...)
    “By the gods and their cousins,” Abdel cursed, casting about for his sword. “I fell asleep. I can’t believe I fell asleep while he was out there.”
    Abdel fumbles with his armor and shouts some abuse in the general direction of the Iron Throne encampment. Xan uses this moment to materialize from the shadows.

    “Xan!” Jaheira stopped him. “Where were you?”
    “Sleeping peacefully with a beautiful woman rubbing up against me,” the elf joked. “Oh no, that wasn’t me, that was—“
    “Xan,” Abdel interrupted, “what did you find?”
    The elf laughed, and Jaheira turned away to assemble her armor and weapons.
    Xan goes through his loot while Jaheira is getting dressed, coming up with a map and a book. The bandits are hoarding "cart after cart" of iron in the camp, confirming that they're connected to the iron shortage, though Xan expresses doubt that the "toughs and nobodies" at the camp are Zhentarim themselves. Xan and Jaheira review the map while Abdel thumbs through the book.

    It felt odd—like leather but smoother, somehow more dry. (...) On the cover was a symbol that Abdel recognized but couldn’t exactly place. It was a carved relief that actually looked like a human skull, split in half and somehow bonded to the center of a circle in which tear drops—or drops of blood—were sprinkled.
    (...)
    “Are you all right?” Jaheira asked him. When he didn’t respond she said, “Abdel?”
    “I’m fine,” he said. “Where did you find this book?”
    Xan looked confused, surprised by the question. “It was on a stand in one of the tents. It seemed important, expensive, I don’t know. No one was around, so I took it. What is it?”
    “Evil,” Abdel said simply. Jaheira and Xan exchanged a confused look. “It’s—it should go somewhere safe. I should bring it to Candlekeep.”
    The symbol on the cover is blatantly the symbol of Bhaal, and I'm surprised neither Xan nor Jaheira seem to recognise it. In fact, Xan insists he just nicked it because it looked like something that would normally be guarded. (Xan is good at being an adventurer.) The book will come up again in the coming chapters; we'll discuss it then. For now, I mostly want to note that the cover of the novel matches the description. Can't say I disagree with Abdel's review.

    Xan sadly lost Jaheira's bracelet at the camp. He is in the process of apologising when something unlikely happens:

    Abdel burst into movement, and at the same time the thick bushes a few yards from their camp site exploded into a loud rustle. (...) The fleeing man didn’t have time to scream. His last breath was a gout of bright red blood. Abdel walked over him
    as he fell and came to a stop half a step past the man’s head.
    (...)
    “He was headed for the camp,” Abdel said, not sure why he thought he needed to explain.
    Xan crouched next to the body and grunted, pushing the corpse over onto its back.
    “It’s one of the bandits,” he said.
    That's right: We finally, finally get to see one of the bandits allegedly plaguing the Sword Coast. Jaheira suggests that they should move on before further guards appear. Xan explains that the map he pocketed shows the location of a secret Iron Throne mining camp deep in the Cloak Wood, and that this seems like a promising avenue of investigation.

    “I’m not looking forward to going into the Cloak Wood,” Jaheira said, “I’ve heard stories...”
    “Me too,” Abdel said, “but if we had a guide...”
    “A guide?” Xan asked, confused.
    “Help me lift this body,” Abdel said. “It’s coming with us.”
    We end the chapter on a cliffhanger. Err, sort of. Can you guess what their plan is going to be? Post your guesses below! If you're reading this in the future, take a moment to ponder before you read on.


    Spoiler: Comparison and commentary
    Show
    This chapter is where the book's pace starts accelerating, perhaps due to deadline pressure. We are halfway through the book, but the plot is only now starting to pick up, which means the following events will be rather... compressed.

    As such, we get a relatively long description of the group's journey to the camp, but the investigation of the camp itself takes place entirely offscreen. I think that's a shame. Xan sneaking around, poking into tents and eavesdropping on bandits might've been fun to see. So far, this book has consisted entirely of short conversations and long, drawn-out fights. Combat is a fine way to build tension, as Athans has shown he means business and doesn't mind killing off side characters, but it does get a little monotonous. One thing I do like is merging Ender Sai's character into Xan. The Xan of the books is still a relatively flat character, but he just works well.

    There's another issue with the plot here, though. Zooming out a little: The Iron Throne's scheme involves reducing the supply of usable iron from non-Throne sources. In addition to despoiling the ore coming out of Nashkel, they need to disrupt trade of existing stockpiles, and make sure no shipments can come in from further abroad. That's where the bandits come in. Presumably, sea trade is also being disrupted somehow, as both Amn and Baldur's Gate have harbors. The fact that the roads are swarming with bandits contributes to the general athmosphere of fear and directionless anger, which is a nice side benefit (for Sarevok).

    The whole "bandit crisis" is handled very strangely in the novel in that it doesn't really seem to exist. The word "bandit" appears in chapters one and three and then again in chapter fourteen. If you don't count Gorion's assassins or Abdel's various bar brawls, exactly one criminal is fought in the novel - the random guard Abdel swords through the throat. When our heroes do get to the bandit camp, they just grab a book that happens to set off Xan's loot sense. They never do anything that actually messes with the bandits, and they never encounter any while travelling. The refugees streaming out of Nashkel don't seem to be taking any precautions either, which means they're not worried about getting picked off. After this chapter, the bandits will vanish from the book entirely. I mean, yeah, Sarevok has killed and replaced Tazok, and Taugosz Tenhammer and Ardenor Crush don't actually seem to exist, but it's not like anyone in Team Abdel knows that.

    This, to be fair, is a problem that also exists in the game. You don't really have to do anything to mess up operations at the camp. You can murder Taugosz and Crush if you want to, but it's not part of the critical path. The only thing you really need to do is raid Tazok's tent. Raemon, Venkt, Hakt and Britik, who are presumably second-in-commands of something, but that's about it. Still, this would've been a good opportunity for the book to patch a potential plot hole.

    Another thing that's strange is that, in the book, the Iron Throne is weirdly open about what they're doing. A few chapters ago, Abdel beat up a rando from Nashkel who just knew Tazok was hiring sellswords for the Iron Throne. In the game, the Throne is putting a lot of effort into trying to convince everyone it's Zhent work. Those who know better tend to be the higher-in-command folks like Taugosz and Ardenor. (... and Tersus for some reason, but I guess that's because nobody sees any need to watch what they're saying around him.) This'll only seem stranger the more we learn about the Iron Throne... but that's a discussion for future updates.

  16. - Top - End - #76
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    Default Re: Let's Read and also Play Baldur's Gate: Bhaal must be stopped!

    Quote Originally Posted by Khay View Post
    Splitting paired characters is a venerable tradition in BG. Getting one of them turned to stone or chunky salsa'd also works, but this is less cruel. Khalid seems to be a popular target, since Jaheira is decent while he's just kind of forgettable.
    I couldn't disagree (with the part I bolded) more. The only reason I don't take Khalid in most of my games is that he comes with a druid-shaped lead weight attached to his ankle, which I cannot remove without cheating in a way I'm not willing to do. His high Dexterity and Constitution make him the second-best fighter in the game in terms of power (Kagain is more powerful, but his personality disqualifies him from me wanting to take him), and I like his personality. Druids, however, are strictly inferior to clerics in BG1*, Jaheira doesn't even have Faldorn's "unlike every other joinable in the game I get fifth-level divine spells" advantage, and she whines constantly about how she should be the leader.

    *May not apply if you're willing to steal Drizzt's scimitars and want to give one of them to Jaheira; as irrelevant to anything I'm ever going to do as the tricking-the-AI-to-split-up thing.

  17. - Top - End - #77
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    Default Re: Let's Read and also Play Baldur's Gate: Bhaal must be stopped!

    Heh. Opinions will differ, apparently.

    It's true that Jaheira sits in kind of an awkward spot - due to her dual-classing, and the fact that druids aren't great to begin with, she's not especially good as a fighter or a caster. I just enjoy having a backup spellcaster who can help during combat if need be. Her voice lines are unfortunate, though. She'll likely end up your party leader due to her decent CHA, and her sarcastic omnipresent-authority-figure thing is only charming the first fifty times. Khalid... I don't know, he just doesn't tend to stand out. His stats are a bit middling, his abilities are decent but not great, and his specialty is actually a drawback (low morale - not that it comes up that often). I'm probably being unfair to him. He just ended up getting overshadowed during all of my playthroughs. Maybe I've been using him wrong. That's entirely possible.

  18. - Top - End - #78
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    Default Re: Let's Read and also Play Baldur's Gate: Bhaal must be stopped!

    Indeed, one unstated premise I saw there--"the PC probably has lower Charisma than Jaheira"--stands out as a big difference in our playstyle.

  19. - Top - End - #79
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    Default Re: Let's Read and also Play Baldur's Gate: Bhaal must be stopped!

    As a foreign speaker I don't really get the Dead Shot pun? To me it is just blatant boasting about the bow's (and archer's) ability to kill. What is so punny about it?

    After a quick search about the year 1368 DR mentions the fall of Zhentil Keep which happened in midwinter. Thinking the year starts with the midwinter festival (I don't REALLY know) it still could either be spring or fall. Remember Bassilus and what you can say about Zhentil Keep? I feel it is fall because some maps in the game have their trees in yellow or orange. Also travelling should take a while and other maps more north have green trees (which is possible but unlikely in early spring where melting snow makes roads muddy.

    Also I think Xan's class is elf. I don't know how old AD&D is and how much Athans knows of D&D rules but a good writer doesn't think in "classes" anyhow. Otherwise Drizz't wouldn't be a Fighter/Barbarian/Ranger in 3.5. And he isn't the world's best written character anyhow. Honestly the way the book is written it makes me feel that 90% of characters are Fighters or Rogues anyhow. Jaheira is just a Fighter from a weird druidic upbringing.

  20. - Top - End - #80
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    Default Re: Let's Read and also Play Baldur's Gate: Bhaal must be stopped!

    A "dead shot" is a perfectly accurate shot. The pun lies in the fact that, with a bow used in combat, that's also likely to be a killing shot.

    It looks to me like your description of what Athans did is identical to Khay's, except that your premise is "this is a good way to write" and Khay's is "this is a bad way to write."

    (For whatever it's worth, I agree with Khay there. If you're writing a novel adaptation of 2.5 high-magic computer games in which the protagonist and multiple other major characters are literally half god, you write three high-magic novels, or you say you're not willing to write high-magic novels and let them hire someone else--you don't handwave away most of the magic because you want to write low-magic novels.)
    Last edited by Kish; 2017-04-30 at 01:45 PM.

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    Default Re: Let's Read and also Play Baldur's Gate: Bhaal must be stopped!

    Quote Originally Posted by Khay View Post
    We end the chapter on a cliffhanger. Err, sort of. Can you guess what their plan is going to be? Post your guesses below! If you're reading this in the future, take a moment to ponder before you read on.
    I know it! Abdel wants to use the dead body to attract Korak and ask his help in guiding them to Cloak Wood. At least is a thing so stupid to think about that I can actually see Abdel pulling it off!
    Does this poster have a sign?

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    Default Re: Let's Read and also Play Baldur's Gate: Bhaal must be stopped!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Indeed, one unstated premise I saw there--"the PC probably has lower Charisma than Jaheira"--stands out as a big difference in our playstyle.
    For sure. I'm not enough of a munchkin to just drop CHA to 3, but I'm very unlikely to play a character with Charisma 15 or higher. The stat just isn't all that important to what I want to do, mechanically speaking, and you can easily find items to fix a CHA deficiency if you really want to. I should probably try a high-CHA playthrough one of these days.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sporeegg View Post
    Also I think Xan's class is elf. I don't know how old AD&D is and how much Athans knows of D&D rules but a good writer doesn't think in "classes" anyhow. Otherwise Drizz't wouldn't be a Fighter/Barbarian/Ranger in 3.5. And he isn't the world's best written character anyhow. Honestly the way the book is written it makes me feel that 90% of characters are Fighters or Rogues anyhow. Jaheira is just a Fighter from a weird druidic upbringing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    If you're writing a novel adaptation of 2.5 high-magic computer games in which the protagonist and multiple other major characters are literally half god, you write three high-magic novels, or you say you're not willing to write high-magic novels and let them hire someone else--you don't handwave away most of the magic because you want to write low-magic novels.)
    This is an interesting question, I think. Not every work of fiction can be (or should be) Order of the Stick. However, trying to mash the setting and story of Baldur's Gate into a Conan-esque low fantasy story is a real square peg/round hole situation. As Kish rightly noted, most of the major players in this plot are either absurdly powerful mages, or half-gods, or both. The plot about messing with the iron trade could theoretically work in a low fantasy setting, but the Bhaalspawn stuff... not so much. The mismatch will become worse and worse as the plot goes on. Athans does include 'high fantasy' elements when he absolutely has to - the aforementioned Bhaalspawn stuff - but they don't fit in particularly well. He clearly wanted to write Conan instead. We'll really start to see this in the second book.

    Also, I've said that I don't want to rag on the books just because they're different from the games, but at some point you have to acknowledge they're meant to be adaptations. If you're translating interactive fiction to a non-interactive format, you obviously can't port the gameplay, but you can and should try to find a way to make the book feel like the game. The BG novels just don't do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by CozJa View Post
    I know it! Abdel wants to use the dead body to attract Korak and ask his help in guiding them to Cloak Wood. At least is a thing so stupid to think about that I can actually see Abdel pulling it off!
    That is something I could see Abdel do! We'll find out if you're right this weekend.

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    Default Re: Let's Read and also Play Baldur's Gate: Bhaal must be stopped!

    I just wanted to add that I never knew about infiltrating the bandit camp. I suppose it is cheap of me to blame my Orc Berserker Daelan for the bloodiest of approaches but what can you really do if you kill people when you have the slightest doubt they are unfaithful and only have blood-soaked letters to go by.

    Then again I slaughtered Xzar and Montaron in the open field with the help of Khalid, Jaheira and Neera because they know too much and the pragmatic Halfling talks way too much about backstabbing and poisoning.

    I still haven't found a place for Khalid in combat. He melts in the frontline even with the second best AC and I am tempted to focus all AC gear on Daelan and just let Khalid be the archer he ever dreamt of being. He nearly died dozens of times (reloaded) and it feels like he just doesn't WANT to live. No wonder when Jaheira sleeps with the PC. She really should inform ME that she is indeed sleeping with me.

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    Default Re: Let's Read and also Play Baldur's Gate: Bhaal must be stopped!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sporeegg View Post
    I just wanted to add that I never knew about infiltrating the bandit camp. I suppose it is cheap of me to blame my Orc Berserker Daelan for the bloodiest of approaches but what can you really do if you kill people when you have the slightest doubt they are unfaithful and only have blood-soaked letters to go by.

    Then again I slaughtered Xzar and Montaron in the open field with the help of Khalid, Jaheira and Neera because they know too much and the pragmatic Halfling talks way too much about backstabbing and poisoning.

    I still haven't found a place for Khalid in combat. He melts in the frontline even with the second best AC and I am tempted to focus all AC gear on Daelan and just let Khalid be the archer he ever dreamt of being. He nearly died dozens of times (reloaded) and it feels like he just doesn't WANT to live. No wonder when Jaheira sleeps with the PC. She really should inform ME that she is indeed sleeping with me.
    Low level 1st and 2nd edition is extremely lethal, especially for the poor frontline. The stats really don't matter that much, he WILL die and/or be critically injured in most fights simply because that's his job. He gets better in the later game because HP (fighter HP especially) scales a lot higher than your average monster's damage does, so suddenly it takes five bandits to finish him off instead of one.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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    Default Re: Let's Read and also Play Baldur's Gate: Bhaal must be stopped!

    Quote Originally Posted by Khay View Post
    The plot about messing with the iron trade could theoretically work in a low fantasy setting, but the Bhaalspawn stuff... not so much.
    Indeed, the Iron Throne gets used and discarded by Brother Dear because his scheme is on a whole different plane than the one they're operating on.

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    Default Re: Let's Read and also Play Baldur's Gate: Bhaal must be stopped!

    I've been a bit busy reading an atrocious book myself lately. THe Left Hand of God. Makes Baldur's Gate look good.

    But not so good that I can forgive "purely female sound". Even if this is all first draft stuff, some of this is just so plain inherently bad that you can't blame it on strict deadlines.

    Regarding Khalid, I made him an archer, as generally my frontline consists of summons only. Tanking is a fool's prospect during early BG.

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    Default Re: Let's Read and also Play Baldur's Gate: Bhaal must be stopped!

    Quote Originally Posted by Maryring View Post
    Tanking is a fool's prospect during early BG.
    I agree, and in tune with the ham-handed handling of the heritage of Bhaal in the novels I like to kill things quickly. Maybe Khalid will be next.

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    Default Re: Let's Read and also Play Baldur's Gate: Bhaal must be stopped!

    Thanks for doing this. Always been curious about just how bad the novels are, but could never bring myself to read them. So thanks for taking that mental bullet. Keep it up!

    It is interesting how far off the book is from what is actually possible in game. There are a few interesting ideas so far, but the execution leaves... A bit to be desired. Xzar and Montaron for one.

    But yeah, all for keeping whatever characters you want, so long as you have the characters from the book.
    Quote Originally Posted by FidgetySquirrel View Post
    ...if this keeps up for much longer, half of the playground will have Orcus-themed sigs, which is probably how Orcus can appear in so many places to begin with. NOOOO! STOP SIGGING ORCU- *killed by Orcus*
    My Steam profile!

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    Default Re: Let's Read and also Play Baldur's Gate: Bhaal must be stopped!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilehus View Post
    Thanks for doing this. Always been curious about just how bad the novels are, but could never bring myself to read them. So thanks for taking that mental bullet. Keep it up!

    It is interesting how far off the book is from what is actually possible in game. There are a few interesting ideas so far, but the execution leaves... A bit to be desired. Xzar and Montaron for one.

    But yeah, all for keeping whatever characters you want, so long as you have the characters from the book.
    Thank you! The novels are kind of a slog to get through. I'm not surprised there hasn't been a completed Let's Read yet. I think this is the one that got the furthest, now. The last third of the book is where things go really off the rails, though. We'll see.

    Also, I think the votes are in now. I'll use every character mentioned in the book, but if any slots remain free in the party, I'll fill them in, and I won't needlessly kill off characters.

    ---

    I won't have much time tomorrow, so I'm updating early for once. I know, I'm just as shocked as you are. This post covers Chapter Fifteen of the novel.

    Spoiler: The book
    Show
    Last week, our heroes needed someone to guide them through the forbidding Cloakwood. Abdel formed a plan involving a very recently deceased bandit. Today, we learn the details:

    “There are so many things that are wrong with this,” Jaheira said, “I have no idea how to begin to—“
    She stopped when Abdel put a finger to his lips and tipped his head to one side.
    (...)
    The dead bandit hung, stinking, from a tree where Abdel had left him, and he, Jaheira, and Xan waited behind the also rotting hulk of a fallen tree.
    (...)
    “Oh, my, yes,” Korak said, emerging from the underbrush and considering the dead bandit hungrily. “Yes, this will do fine.”
    If you guessed that the plan for the Cloakwood would involve bribing Korak with a three-days-old bandit corpse, give yourself a pat on the shoulder, because that's exactly their plan.

    “You won’t kill me?” the ghoul asked hopefully. “I come with you?”
    “We need a guide,” Abdel said. “We need a guide in the Cloak Wood.”
    “I knew it,” Korak answered. “Follow me.”
    For the record, this is a change I actually like. It was foreshadowed properly, it makes in-universe sense and the bit about the bandit corpse (and Xan and Jaheira being totally aghast at Abdel's plan) is amusing in a very morbid way.

    Let's see how Athans ruins the goodwill he just earned.

    The spider was brown with irregular blotches of black and white spattered across its spherical body and eight armored legs. It was about as big around as Jaheira’s thumb — not the biggest spider in Faerun, but it felt like it to Jaheira. She let out an embarrassingly impish yelp as the thing dropped on her shoulder. She jumped, and that served only to startle the spider, which proceeded toward the closest dark shelter it could find — Jaheira’s modest but well-rounded cleavage.
    Right on cue.

    We go through a brief comedy bit where Jaheira proceeds to rip off her clothes in front of the party to get at the spider. I'll spare you most of the details, but rest assured the scene is exactly as cringe-worthy as you think it is.

    Her undershirt was loose, and she started to shake it. She made a rather convincing Calish-ite dancing girl. (...) The fabric tore away with an echoing sound, and Abdel swatted the spider from between Jaheira’s exposed breasts before either of them realized what he was doing.
    This, for the record, is one of the more comprehensive ways to strip your Strong Female Character off her dignity. Xan sighs in the general direction of the party, and Jaheira gets dressed again.

    “Yes,” Korak said, his voice loud, too close to Abdel. “Spiders, for certain.” Abdel turned, and the ghoul was there. (...) “You’re here as a guide, ghoul,” Abdel said, his voice heavy and threatening, “so guide from the front, or spiders will be the least of your problems.”
    The group continues to walk. The undergrowth slowly thickens and the spiders become larger as they go.

    “Admitting that a plan has failed,” Xan said, breaking Abdel’s reverie, “is a lesser sin than continuing down a course that can only lead to disaster.”
    “For Torm’s sake, Xan,” Abdel shot back testily, “I’ll kill the reeking son of a slug with my bare hands if it’ll shut you up, but it won’t get us out of this godsforsaken forest any faster.”
    “This Korak of yours,” Xan said, “is an undead thing, Abdel. How could you possibly trust it?”
    “I don’t,” the sellsword answered. “I never trusted him when he was alive, but I’m not sure I have much choi— damn it!”
    Abdel slices a large spider in two, which breaks open and releases hundreds of baby spiders that get everywhere. They spend a while smashing those, then shudder it off.

    “Mielikki has turned away from this wood,” Jaheira said, as much to herself as to the others.
    “Spiders are just... spiders,” Abdel offered feebly.
    “Yes, they are,” Jaheira replied, “as much a part of the order of nature as anything, but I’d prefer they didn’t... order on my... nature.”
    Abdel smiled, and so did Jaheira, just a little.
    This cheers them up, but not for long. After that weird spider bite scene near the start of the chapter, the writing has, somehow, swung back around to being decent. The sun is setting, and the Cloakwood is turning darker. The spiders continue to grow in size, and the forest is quickly becoming oppressively dense.

    “That’s it,” Abdel said sternly, “we’re going back.”
    Korak stopped and turned to look at the sellsword. “Back?”
    “That’s it,” Abdel said simply.
    “You’re leading us into some sort of spider... spider...” Xan stammered, searching for the right word, “. . . spider hell.”
    “Let’s just go,” Jaheira said, her voice weak and quivering. She was beginning to twitch, and Abdel couldn’t help but be reminded of the Zhentarim mage Xzar when he looked at her.
    Korak says it's not much further, but he's been saying that for hours. Abdel insists on turning around and draws his sword. Korak smiles, bows, nods happily, and continues in the same direction as before. Oh, Korak, you cad.

    “What’s wrong?” Abdel said, then looked up, heard Jaheira stifle a scream, and nearly screamed himself.
    The trees gave way to a clearing, a clearing full of webs of all sizes, shapes, and levels of complexity, from simple strands hanging from one twisted branch to another, to enormous ropy constructions resembling tales Abdel had heard of the cities of Evermeet. Things that looked like nests crawled with tiny spiders, and in one enormous web, with strands easily thicker than the stoutest rope Abdel had ever seen, was a spider the size of a cow. Its bulbous, black body was stippled with red. Smoking green venom was dripping from its twitching mandibles.
    Jaheira just stood there with her mouth open and her eyes bulging. She’d gone past panic, past the ability to scream. Xan mumbled something in Elvish that was certainly a prayer, and a single tear tracked through the grime of his right cheek.
    Korak shuffled his feet, trying to decide which direction to run away in, and said, “Oops.”
    In the center of the clearing was what Abdel could only describe as a building.
    Dun dun dunn! This is another section that ends on a kind of cliffhanger. We'll see the interior of spider hell in the next chapter.


    Spoiler: The game
    Show
    We're back in JPEGland for part of this update, but I think I finally figured out the reason: The recording profile I was using defaults to the wrong video codec.

    Anyway, we left off at the bandit camp,


    Screenshot

    Before we leave, we take a moment to beat up Taugosz for his gear.


    Screenshot

    As you can see, the Cloakwood has been marked on our map. It isn't accessible yet, but we can reach the place from a map that borders it. We have some errands to run, though. First stop: Beregost.


    Screenshot

    We head to the Thunderhammer Smithy to identify the various magic items we picked up, to stock up on ammo, and to offload all the spare +1 weapons we weren't using anyway. This gives us enough money to get the Dagger of Venom, one of the stronger weapons in the game.


    Screenshot

    We also take a moment to say hi to Officer Vai and sell our remaining bandit scalps for 50 GP a pop. The bandits have been driven back by our efforts, it seems, and she and her company have been recalled to the Gate. We get a point of Reputation for our trouble.


    Screenshot

    We're almost ready to depart for the Cloakwood. We'll take the route via the Friendly Arm Inn so that we can rest up first, though.


    Screenshot

    Let's hit up the temple while we're there. We spend our remaining money on bottles of Elixir_of_Health. They're expensive but worth it.


    Screenshot

    We spread the love around a little. The Cloakwood is full of horrible poisonous beasts, and I don't want to rely purely on saving throws and Slow Poison, so everyone gets an elixir, an antidote and a healing potion.

    (In the process, I also noticed that Jaheira’s equipment is kind of a mess. The Ring of Infravision does not belong on her. This is in part because I tend to start equipping random stuff to random characters when I run out of inventory space. I fix this when I get the opportunity. )


    Screenshot

    Now we're ready to depart for the Cloakwood.


    Screenshot

    Our first encounter is... a small group of tasloi. Hm. These aren't quite the horrors we were promised. Oh well, it's an opportunity to use Sleep on something. If you're curious, the local tasloi are related to the Gurke's Cloak quest.


    Screenshot

    A little further into the forest, we happen on a cozy hunting lodge and a stranger in need.


    Screenshot

    Aldeth here is a noble from Baldur's Gate. Agree to help him, and he'll explain his druid-related predicament a little further.


    Screenshot

    Rich people who hunt in a druid-protected area for entertainment. Lovely. Oh well, we've been hired to do a job, and we'll do it. We cast some buffs while we wait for the druids to show up.


    Screenshot

    So this is an interesting situation. Aldeth here is an arrogant prick, a poacher, and a trespasser in druid country. Does that mean he and his off-screen companions deserve the death penalty, though? The alleged "cold-blooded slaying" is more troubling, but we don't know the context for that. Note further that Aldeth flatly denies the slaying, rather than claiming it was in self-defense. We also don't know the context for the death of Elban. No idea whether they were given an opportunity to leave peacefully or if the druids went straight to re-enacting The Most Dangerous Game.

    From a purely selfish point of view, helping Aldeth means a Baldurian noble owes us a favour, which could come in handy. On the other hand, Seniyad is a druid in charge of the comically lethal forest we're in right now - it might help if he likes us. Aldeth runs a cartel known as the Merchants' League, which competes with and thus opposes the Iron Throne. The same is likely true for Seniyad's druids, though. They can't possibly be okay with the mining operation, given how much environmental damage that can cause. Oh, and in terms of alignment, both Seniyad and Aldeth are Neutral.

    In the end, there's no clear answer. Pick whichever option you like best. We'll side with Aldeth this time. I figure that CHARNAME!Abdel, as a sellsword, has some professional ethics that make him unwilling to turn on an employer.


    Screenshot

    The druids won't agree to a peaceful solution and we have a fight on our hands.

    So. Jaheira doesn't speak up here, which is odd as she's supposed to be part of the same druidic order as Seniyad. The BGWiki goes far enough to claim that this is "a bug" in some versions of the game, but a quick rummage through the game assets provides no evidence to support this. It seems to have been part of a popular mod that was later sort of elevated to fan canon status.

    ... what was I talking about? Oh right, druid fight.


    Screenshot

    Seniyad is the only dangerous member of the group. He has access to fun spells like Call Lightning, which can potentially one-shot one of our weaker party members. His three buddies just cast Flame Blade and attack.


    Screenshot

    The archdruid dies without resolving a spell. The cleanup doesn't take long.


    Screenshot

    Aldeth gives us a potion, some XP and a quest hook for later in the game. We also take Seniyad's mildly useful ring. Note that the Merchant's League building can't be entered at all if you don't save Aldeth here, which is a shame - it's an interesting place. (For the record, siding with Seniyad would've given us some information about the Cloakwood, better loot and a bonus fight instead of a sidequest.)

    That was interesting and all, but we really need to get back on track. We continue exploring. A little deeper in the woods, we encounter another stranger in need.


    Screenshot

    ... the need is a little less urgent in this case, but still.


    Screenshot

    Coran here is a recruitable character, and perhaps the one with the least amount of emotional baggage. He's just an adventurer who wants to go wyvern hunting, and he needs some additional firepower to do so. Good call. Wyverns are dangerous.

    We'll be replacing Kivan with Coran. Kivan's personal sidequest (... sorta) is just the Bandit Camp, and we've already cleared that one out.


    Screenshot

    Also, Coran is just a better version of Kivan, being a Fighter/Tief with 20 DEX and three proficiency dots in Bows. His STR is a little lacking but it's enough for the purposes of the Dead Shot. Find Traps of 20% is pretty anemic, but we can work on that. Have I mentioned that he has 20 DEX? Because he does and that's just silly.


    Screenshot


    Screenshot

    Okay so maybe he's kind of a ne'er-do-well, but I still like Coran.


    Screenshot

    Our business concluded, we move deeper into the Cloakwood.


    Screenshot

    Tiber here is waiting near the beginning of Cloakwood 2. His brother has gone missing and he's worried sick. Let's see if we can help them. So far, the Cloakwood hasn't been so bad. Bloodthirsty druids and tasloi, yes, but nothing we couldn't handle. I bet Chelak just got lost. What's the worst thing that could happen?


    Screenshot

    Oh. Right.


    Screenshot

    This is where we see how the Cloakwood gets its "spider hell" reputation. The area is full of Web traps. Every enemy around is either an ettercap or some kind of giant spider, both conveniently immune to Web, and everything here has a poison attack.


    Screenshot

    The deeper we go, the bigger the spiders become. This is a Phase Spider, which is huge, poisonous and can teleport. Through walls. Into your bedroom. At night. Their habit of teleporting near your mages can become... unpleasant, but we dispatch this one without too much trouble.


    Screenshot

    It doesn't really show in these screenshots, but the multi-triggering Web traps really started to annoy me. My plan was to have Jaheira cast Find Traps so I can avoid them, but it didn't work out. Often, you can't actually go around the traps, and the spell interrupts her once per round. It also disables quicksaving and is just too annoying to put up with. Eventually, I just gave up and had Coran do his thing, as shown above.

    Cloakwood 2 is a large area. We spend most of the day exploring.


    Screenshot

    As night falls, we find a small clearing. Located in the center of the clearing is what I could only describe as a building. We'll see the interior next time.


    Spoiler: Comparison and commentary
    Show
    This chapter provides an excellent illustration of how inconsistent the quality of the books is.

    The writing is decent here, even approaching good in places. Abdel's plan is plausible, and it's notable for actually being Abdel's plan. For a protagonist, Abdel normally has curiously little agency - the plot just carries him onward with its sweep. This is the first time Abdel sets out to do something, then does something, then has that something work.

    Also, the Cloakwood comes across as a deeply unpleasant place, and I'm not even particularly arachnophobic. It starts out bad and only gets worse from there. The group has to rely on Korak for guidance. The ghoul acts helpful, for the most part, but there's always sort of an undercurrent of menace. He's never quite trustworthy, and barely reacts to their attempts to keep him in line with intimidation. It's even a plausible extension of what little character he has in the game. (If Korax even qualifies as a character.) I just... I just don't know why Korak of all characters received this treatment. But he's well-written all the same. Bafflingly well-written.

    The Cloakwood of the game is a little different from the Cloakwood of the novel. In the game, quite a few people running around in the woods - a colourful assortment of Baldurian nobles, hapless would-be adventurers and bloodthirsty druids. The later areas do become threatening, but it's all relatively gradual. The Cloakwood of the novel is all spiders all the way. I kind of like it. Yes, the world loses a little depth, but the streamlined Cloakwood just works better in the adaptation. Spider hell still matches what we see in the game, so that's good.

    All in all, there's some good stuff in this chapter!

    Sadly, there's also the comedy bit with Jaheira and her spider friend, which kinda spoils this chapter. In isolation, this wouldn't be back-breaking - Jaheira's seriousness and stick-in-the-mud tendencies make her an easy target for slapstick humor. The problem is that the narrative just continually dunks on her. Don't get me wrong, this chapter's "dancing girl" is not nearly as screwed-up as last chapter's "livid emotions" or the "purely female sound" of the chapter before that, but it's part of the same pattern. Jaheira's allowed to be strong or competent when it doesn't really matter - or rather, she is allowed offscreen competence - but as soon as it becomes important, she turns into a shrieking damsel in distress. We'll see a temporary culmination of sorts in the next chapter.

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    Default Re: Let's Read and also Play Baldur's Gate: Bhaal must be stopped!

    Personally, I want to know what kind of armor or clothes she, as an adventuring druid, is wearing that has cleavage. I get it, female armor tropes, but come on. She's a druid. I'm not sure theyre even allowed to have cleavage underneath their clothes, let alone showing through it.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

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