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    Default Let's Read: X-Wing Complete Series, All Books!

    So this will cover all of the X-Wing novels. Will be reading them, and posting up some action and thoughts about is going on. Encourage others to make comments.

    The Novels: The novels can be divided up into 3 sections comprising Rogue Squadron (Books 1-4, Book 8), Wraith Squadron (Books 5-7, Book 10), and Wedge's Day in the Limelight (Book 9).

    Rogue Squadron Section:

    Book 1, Rogue Squadron) The Introductory Novel

    Book 2, Wedge's Gamble) Picks up a few weeks to a few months after the End of Book 1, continues the main plot from Book 1

    Book 3, The Krytos Trap) Continues on after Book 2, with Rogue Squadron doing special mentions

    Book 4, The Bacta War, (More Accurate Title: Wedge's Revenge)) Finishes off the first series Arc

    Book 8, Isard's Revenge) Takes place after The Thrawn Trilogy and after Book 7


    Wraith Squadron Section:

    Book 5, Wraith Squadron) Wedge makes a new X-Wing Unit

    Book 6, Iron Fist) Continuation of Book 5

    Book 7, Solo Command) Closes out Plot from Previous books, and lead into the novel Courtship of Princess Leia, which is intended to be read after

    Book 10, Mercy Kill) Picks up after Legacy of the Force, and Fate of the Jedi, Way down the history line. Features the Wraiths though.

    Wedge's Day:

    Book 9, Starfighters of Adumar) Occurs somewhere in Timeline after book 8, definitely before Hand of Thrawn Duology. Wedge accepts a job from the New Republic's version of the CIA/MI5(MI6). He brings a few friends along, Hilarity Ensues. Most worth reading.

    Rogue Squadron

    Dramatis Personae)
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    Rogue Squadron (Our Heroes, hopefully):

    Commander Wedge Antilles (Human male from Corellia)

    Our fearless leader who has chronic depression. Wedge most of his time mourning what he could have had if his parents had survived saving a station called Gus Treta/teta (It's name is difficult to remember exactly). He either adores or quickly comes to like our main character, who happens to be a marty sue or rather mary sue-ish, and is somewhat dodgy. Wedge survived both Death Stars, froze on Hoth (not that much), and has been in need of a promotion. He is an ace pilot of the order of the Red Baron, and could have given the Red Baron a run for his money. Wedge is also young, not even thirty yet.

    Wedge's adventures with early prototype Rogue Squadron is featured in the X-wing comics which also feature his pals Wes Janson, and Hobbie. Both of these two are missing, having been given other assignments while Wedge has been tasked with reforming Rogue Squadron after several stints as a diplomatic spotlight. Now, Wedge must try a new bunch of pilots into the elite pilot Rogue Squadron and fight the Empire.

    Let's see how well that works out....

    Captain Tycho Celchu (Human male from Alderaan)

    A former Imperial pilot who defected, flew an a-wing at the Endor battle, and may have frozen on Hoth. He featured in the X-wing comics, then volunteered for a secret mission. Having made it back, he is believed to be an Imperial spy.

    Lieutenant Corran Horn (Human male from Corellia)

    A former Cop from Corellian Security or Cor-Sec.

    Ooryl Qrygg (Gand male from Gand)

    A Gand (basically what Zuckass from Empire is) who speaks always in third person and has no lungs. He is also skilled at stealth killing. Keeps Corran company, and offers advice at times.

    Nawara Ven (Twi'lek male from Ryloth)

    A Twi'lek lawyer until he joined the rebels.

    Rhysati Ynr (Human female from Bespin)

    Pilot from Bespin who worked for Lando, which is a pretty big recommendation.

    Bror Jace (Human male from Thyferra)

    Member of one of the Bacta Cartels.

    Erisi Dlarit (Human female from Thyferra)

    The Bacta Queen. A spoiled Rich Girl that lacks basic compassion or caring for anyone with a lower status than herself.

    Peshk Vri'syk (Bothan male from Bothawui)

    A bothan, who doesn't actually do any of the traditional bothan spying thing. This is a bit weird.

    Gavin Darklighter (Human male from Tatooine)

    Biggs younger cousin, who gets into the squadron mainly because he is related to Biggs.

    Riv Shiel (Shistavanen [Wolfman-which is how I shall be referring to him] male from Uvena 3)

    A wolfman who is basically a wolfman.

    Lujayne Forge (Human female from Kessel)

    An inhabitant from Kessel, where criminals go to.

    Andoorni Hui (Rodian female from Rodia)

    Rodian, and a female. the only things which we learn about her.

    Zraii (Verpine male from Roche G42)

    Our mechanic, who also is a bug. Prone to over-fixing things as a species trait. No, it makes little sense to me other. It is explained why this can be bad.

    M-3PO (Emtrey; protocol and regulations droid)

    The supply officer, also has a secret too. (Which gets revealed fast in the next book's start, which kinda ruins this entire interesting point)

    Whistler (Corran's R2 Astromech [The book calls him a R2-D2 astromech])

    Corran loyal henchman droid. Programmed as batch of R2 units going Cor-Sec to work police cases, so he got special programming, programming which proves highly useful later. He also happens to be non memory wiped and so has developed a personality. A cool somewhat sneaky version of R2-D2

    Mynock (Wedge's R5-D2 Astromech [Again with the RX-D2 thing, the R5 is supposed to be a newer droid than R2 is])

    Wedge's long-suffering droid that screams like a mynock frequently. This prompts wedge to modify the droid's memory so he doesn't shriek. Yeah, he only really exists to demonstrate how droids get treated in star wars, like appliances or a faulty car rather than an actual sentient being, made of metal and circuits mind.

    Rebels:

    Admiral Ackbar (Mon Calamari male from Dac [Mon Calamari])

    Leader of the Rebel Military, using only ocean metaphors. His people are in conflict with Quarrens from Dac, though he happens to be nice to them. He doesn't like smugglers, but he is willing to put up with it at times. He is Wedge's and Salm's boss.

    General Horton Salm (human male from Norvall 2)

    A guy that showed up in the X-wing comics. Was "Colonel Salm, previously".

    General Laryn Kre'fey (Bothan male from Bothawui)

    Bothan friend towards Borsk Fey'yla and gets an important mission. He actually shows up get a ways through the book. Meaning I can't describe much about him since it is spoilers. Sucks for you.

    Captain Afyon (Human male from Alderaan)

    Another inhabitant from dead Alderaan like Tycho. Shows up after Kre'fey does, which means he gets undescribed until later. Also, was present in the Thrawn Trilogy before showing up here, in the published timeline since the Thrawn books were first I think. From an in setting timeline, he shows up here than later during the Thrawn events.

    Crew of the Pulsar Skate:

    Mirax Terrik (Human female from Corellia)

    Daughter of Booster Terrik, who Corran's dad had a friendly rivalry with; Corran thinks it was more personal on both parts and so he acts like that, in a rather dumb fashion.

    Liat Tsayv (Sullustan male Sullust)

    Is Mirax's Copilot (?, I can't recall). A member of the same species as Lando's copilot in Return of the Jedi. His people are known for looking terrible and frankly, any other species could have been used here, perhaps a wookiee? Sullustan's are rarely described why they matter, and they just look disturbing. Why do we need more? Seriously, they look like some weird fat kids, more than anything else. Luckily, Liat shows up little, which means we don't have nightmares about his bloody fat kid look.

    Imperial Forces:

    Ysanne Isard, Director for Imperial Intelligence [II for short] (human female from Coruscant)

    Iceheart, notorious for having weird eyeballs, one red, one blue. Is also fond of hinting that she has a unrequited crush on the Emperor. Along with stabbing her father in the back to take over II, and showed up originally in X-wing comics. She runs the Empire these days. The Original Cersei and just as bad.

    Kirtan Loor, Intelligence Agent, Spy, Definitely not James Bond (human male from Churba)

    A spy, who was originally a cop buddy for Corran. They don't like each other. Kirtan is always described as looking like Tarkin, for humor purposes. He has made taking revenge on Corran his life goal, though he happens to be frightened of Corran as well. Which makes his goal strange.

    General Evir Derricote (human male from Kalla)

    A guy from the X-wing comics, he originally commanded the 181st until Fel took over fully. Derricote got transferred to command the defenses of Borleias in the comics, a job he is still doing. Like the comic version, he is interested in plants. He actually shows up the same time as Kre'fey does a bit, but knowing about beforehand will help as he also shows up a little earlier than Kre'fey, when Kirtan pays him a visit. Was fat in the comics, is still fat here.


    Tallies For Important Recorded Events)

    Squadron Aces
    Spoiler
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    None


    Roster of Kills)

    Kills:
    Spoiler
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    None


    Roster of the Dead (Or those who die in the series and how, as much as can be found out))

    Killed In Action (KIA):
    Spoiler
    Show

    None, but soon


    AuOM (Ackbar uses Ocean Metaphor): 0

    Previously:

    The Rebel Alliance destroyed the Second Destroy Star and Killed the Emperor. The RA turned into the New Republic, but I willing be calling it, RA for ease. The Rebels continued their fight against the Empire and have decided for themselves to retake Coruscant and establish their government.

    Wedge Antilles formed Rogue Squadron, lead it on missions (Covered in X-Wing Comics), and then later dissembled or put the Squadron on hold, while he went about going on Victory Tours. Having exhausted all influence that Wedge could generate, the RA leadership has tasked Wedge with restoring the Rogues to fighting trim, and once having done that, leading the charge to take Coruscant.

    (Read through of Book 1 to start with first couple of chapters appearing Friday. Chapter updates will be as frequently as I can read and write down notes, then I will post them up)
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    Default Re: Let's Read: X-Wing Complete Series, All Books!

    Great idea for a thread! I've read the books before (save Mercy Kill) and I'm very interested in following this.

    Have you considered including I, Jedi? Not technically an X-Wing novel but focused on one of the pilots.

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    Default Re: Let's Read: X-Wing Complete Series, All Books!

    Quote Originally Posted by RossN View Post
    Have you considered including I, Jedi? Not technically an X-Wing novel but focused on one of the pilots.
    The book really doesn't fit into the X-Wing Series, which is mainly focused on the fighter units. The book has some X-Wing combat, but that is not the main focus of the book. There are several books that feature Wedge, but lack the X-Wing Focus, so I won't include them. Also have to get this book for my kindle.
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    Default Re: Let's Read: X-Wing Complete Series, All Books!

    Btw, they keep referring to events when Soontir Fel had to ally with Wedge and Rogue Squadron. Did that occur during a comic or something?

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    Default Re: Let's Read: X-Wing Complete Series, All Books!

    Neat, i just finished the Rogue Squadron series a few months ago, great books.
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    Default Re: Let's Read: X-Wing Complete Series, All Books!

    The X-Wing series is far and away the crowning achievement of the Star Wars EU, and I endorse this undertaking.

    There's also Mercy Kill, set after the Yuuzhan Vong war and pretty evidently meant as an introduction to the post-Vong status quo and an attempt to draw old readers back into the fold. Even though it's Aaron Allston, who was the best and I heart him vigorously, the book still sucks, because Vector Prime and everything that came after it turned the entire EU into irredeemable garbage trash. You are correct to skip it. EDIT: Oh, didn't see you did included it, just out of chronological order. My bad.

    I have I, Jedi filed as an X-Wing book on my shelf between Solo Command and Isard's Revenge, but I understand leaving it out of this project.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr View Post
    Btw, they keep referring to events when Soontir Fel had to ally with Wedge and Rogue Squadron. Did that occur during a comic or something?
    Yeah, the last dozen or so issues of the X-Wing Rogue Squadron comic from Dark Horse.

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    Default Re: Let's Read: X-Wing Complete Series, All Books!

    And...subscribed. X-Wing is one of my favorite series of books and I look forward to seeing your view on it, and how high the AuOM count will get :P.

    Quote Originally Posted by RossN View Post
    I've read the books before (save Mercy Kill)
    I highly recommend picking up Mercy Kill if you enjoyed the Wraith books. It's a bit of a slow starter, but probably my favorite of the Wraith series books once I finished it (and that's saying a lot because I absolutely loved Solo Command).

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    Default Re: Let's Read: X-Wing Complete Series, All Books!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr View Post
    Btw, they keep referring to events when Soontir Fel had to ally with Wedge and Rogue Squadron. Did that occur during a comic or something?
    That was during the Comics. Between the End of the Comics and the Novel Starting, Soontir was captured by the Empire and ended up joining Thrawn, who left him to work with the Empire of the Hand from the Hand of Thrawn Duology. Fel reappears a few times later near the end of New Jedi Order. His son, Jagged, marries Jaina Solo, and becomes the First Emperor of the Fel Empire. (Which used to be the Imperial Remnant)

    One a later book, Fel is mentioned, appears. But we will cover that when we get there, in Books 5-7.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malimar View Post
    The X-Wing series is far and away the crowning achievement of the Star Wars EU, and I endorse this undertaking.

    There's also Mercy Kill, set after the Yuuzhan Vong war and pretty evidently meant as an introduction to the post-Vong status quo and an attempt to draw old readers back into the fold. Even though it's Aaron Allston, who was the best and I heart him vigorously, the book still sucks, because Vector Prime and everything that came after it turned the entire EU into irredeemable garbage trash. You are correct to skip it. EDIT: Oh, didn't see you did included it, just out of chronological order. My bad.

    I have I, Jedi filed as an X-Wing book on my shelf between Solo Command and Isard's Revenge, but I understand leaving it out of this project.
    I happen to like Mercy Kill, because it is back to basics, and really tries to restore the Star Wars galaxy to better times. I think the book series after NJO were attempts to wipe away the Vong appearance.

    I, Jedi takes place after Isard's Revenge, but before Starfighters of Adumar. So, you ought to put in in between Book 8, and Book 9.

    Corran Horn also appears in a pair of stories, one from Tales From the Empire, and one from Tales From the New Republic.

    Wedge appears elsewhere, and if I include Corran's other stories, I will need to include Wedge stories, beyond the Zahn books he shows up in. That would include adding in Dark Empire Trilogy, Darksaber, Whatever else that features him.

    The main focus is X-Wing stories, but I can include other novels, mainly based on how much X-Wing they have or feature. So I may feature the second Corran Horn story. Actually, I will feature both since both feature characters that show up in Book 2. So after Book 1, I will include them.

    The Stories are: Side Trip, Featuring Corran and Dad; Missed Chance, Featuring Corran only; Not sure about others.

    I plan to include everything one of the metaphors and given how focused on the sea, ocean, that Ackbar's people are, expect a lot. His people are fish people after all. Well, maybe Squids?
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    Default Re: Let's Read: X-Wing Complete Series, All Books!

    Octopi. Quarren are squids.

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    Default Re: Let's Read: X-Wing Complete Series, All Books!

    Quote Originally Posted by russdm View Post
    I, Jedi takes place after Isard's Revenge, but before Starfighters of Adumar. So, you ought to put in in between Book 8, and Book 9.
    Why so it does. I guess just assumed based on publication dates and never bothered to look it up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by russdm View Post
    That was during the Comics. Between the End of the Comics and the Novel Starting, Soontir was captured by the Empire and ended up joining Thrawn, who left him to work with the Empire of the Hand from the Hand of Thrawn Duology. Fel reappears a few times later near the end of New Jedi Order. His son, Jagged, marries Jaina Solo, and becomes the First Emperor of the Fel Empire. (Which used to be the Imperial Remnant)

    One a later book, Fel is mentioned, appears. But we will cover that when we get there, in Books 5-7.
    Jagged is a great character, and the Fel Dynasty is, across the board, awesome. I love Roan Fel in Legacy.
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    Default Re: Let's Read: X-Wing Complete Series, All Books!

    Starting the book, we get to read through a list of Dramatic Personal, or the people who will show up in the book. It lists the names of people that we will encounter. I will be mentioning all simulator kills, but won't be adding them to the list. Real kills count only.

    Chapter 1, Redemption Scenario Test

    So, We start out right in some action. Our main character is running through Simulator tests that feature completing scenarios based on previous missions carried out by Rebel pilots. One of these tests is based around the Redemption mission, which is from the X-Wing Video Game. Here, our hero, Corran Horn is undertaking it.

    The Redemption scenario is: The ship Redemption is receiving shuttles and the corvette Korolev while the Imperial frigate Warspite launches craft to destroy it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wedge Antilles
    You're good, Corran, but you're no Luke Skywalker.
    Here we have Wedge's method of motivating the troops. It's a bit funny.

    Corran is flying as Green 1, Ooryl Qrygg (How to say?) flies Green 2, with two currently unnamed other pilots as Green 3 and 4. We learn that Ooryl is a Gand, which is one of Zuckass' people. Otherwise, if you didn't know, what is a Gand?

    We meet Whistler, a green and white colored R2 unit that has been Corran's partner for a long time. He sits where R2 did in the movies. Basically, Whistler is Corran's pet droid.

    We learn about the scenario; it is a repeat of the mission from X-Wing, with the solution established for solving it, listed here as being the only way to make it work. This particular scenario is called Requiem due to difficulty by pilots. Apparently it is a low pay version of the Kobayashi Maru scenario from Star Trek. You know, the one that is poorly designed to test how much of a bastard the cadet is?

    Kobayashi Maru is where the ship is supposed to respond to a damaged ship, only when responding you encounter overwhelming opposition. Given how rigged the scenario is, it actually doesn't probably test for what it is supposed to, and is more about encouraging more elaborate ways of cheating. A better test would be forcing the captain to choose to rescue the Maru or another damaged ship, with the one that isn't rescued being lost with it's crew. If they really wanted to test how cadets face death, then they should have set up the scenario about having to defend the Maru against attackers while it tried to escape with vital information or having the captain defend an evacuation by Federation citizens against some enemies.

    How exactly does rescuing a ship or not tell you how someone faces death when there is nothing making someone having to do anything? What happens to those cadets who fail, since the entire mission is designed to make them fail? How did they graduate? Are only cadets like Kirk, who cheated, the only ones who got command? Personally, I think the entire scenario was poorly thought out from the start, and there are frequent instances of Starfleet having to switch up the test to make it work. They could have made it work always, but went with the default with modifications, that is just a jerk-fest. Bloodly command.

    So the Redemption Scenario is being treated in the same way as shown by this dialogue:
    "Green One, this is Green Four."
    Corran: "Go ahead, Four."
    "By the book, or are we doing something fancy?"

    This introduces us to Nawara Ven, our twilek party member. Basically, the book means doing the standard solution or trying to improvise. Or in KM(Kobayashi Maru) terms, it means trying to cheat. The Book is the only workable solution though, begging what exactly the point is here. By encouraging solely by the book thinking, that discourages creativity or unorthodox strategy, which is what the Rebellion was about. It also means deploying one ship against five enemies, which are lousy odds.

    Which as Corran says, "Besides, what loyal son of Corellia ever had any use for odds?" Yeah, so apparently because Han said to not mention the odds, all Corellians are the same way.

    We also learn a few paragraphs before that Rebels refer to Tie Fighters as Eyeballs, with Dupe being used to reference Tie Bombers. Tie Interceptors get the moniker of Squints in Rebel pilot slang. The enemy ship will launch two eyeballs and 3 dupes together in two waves on opposite sides on the ship that Corran must defend, so even the setup is getting up to KM levels. Corran opts for the Book solution

    Corran has a medallion from his dad, which he rubs for luck whenever he can. No, there is nothing Freudian about this. Honest. Since pilots are apparently superstitious, Corran needed a lucky charm.

    Corran is a newbie to the Alliance, but he gets the pilot slang. Welcome to the pain, buddy. Did I mention that the Alliance has bit of a reputation for dying a lot? Nope, it doesn't.

    Corran had Whistler record info when Corran was guarding back, while the one who went out, called a fleethund, took out the Ties. Whistler has a tendency to record things, so expect it to come up. Corran will play Fleethund, while the others, all 3, have to stay back to guard.

    We get introduced to Green Three, Rhysati Ynr, and her useful advice. "Be all over them like drool on a Hutt." That's just...okay, nice advice.

    We get X-Wing combat action, with strong vibes that the writer have been busy playing the game before he did any writing. It even includes the sound effects! In written form too!

    A fun comment: "Commander Antilles might have gotten them all himself, but then he's got two Death Stars painted on the side of his X-wing." Apparently, Wedge has a reputation.

    Still going on the combat. I think that WEG books were handed to this author as well. He mentions specifications.

    Ooryl dies while Corran kills the second group of dupes. But's it simulation space, so Ooryl survived, to hammer his chair if he wants. Nawara reports it, then bits it.

    Rhysati tangles with a pilot and Corran goes after the last dupe. It's being flown by Bror Jace, or so Corran thinks. Bror Jace is from Thyferra, and Corran thinks that Jace is second best since naturally, Corran is the best.

    The two engage in a dogfight, and then Corran uses his X-wing's shields to ram Jace's bomber. It works. Meanwhile, Rhysati, has not survived her encounter.

    Corran is now facing off against a lone Tie Fighter. "That's seriously gutsy for a Tie Fighter. Or arrogant, and time to make him pay for that arrogance."

    Humorously, Corran targets the Tie with a missile and believes he killed it. It dodges. Dex Stat

    Corran, arrogant sod, decided the Tie must be flown by Wedge since Jace is the only other person who could keep up with Corran. (Signs of Mary Sue) "Except for our leader. Coming to see how good I really am, Commander Antilles? Let me give you a clinic." Corran has an ego.

    Corran dogfights, but steadily begins to lose. He goes head to head, but the Tie puts shots in that mess with Corran's targeting. Corran still thinks it's Wedge. The dogfight ends with Corran's ship completely disabled. Screw-up.

    The scenario ends, and we learn that naturally Corran won. He scored nine kills, which pisses off Jace apparently. These are from simulated missions, you idiots. They really don't count.

    Naturally, only Wedge was good enough to kill him, so clearly Wedge sim-killed the others. Corran also learns he survived to win. The pilot who fought Corran so well, shows up to congratulate him. He lets Corran know how good he is. (More Mary Sue-ing)

    We learn the pilot needs to see Admiral Ackbar, and Corran expresses surprise at the fact there are pilots as good as Wedge around. He has tabs on his flight suit for Hoth, Endor, Bakura, with having flown the Death Star run at Endor. He claims to be rusty.

    Corran's Ego takes over and he has a little freak-out. He can't lose ever. He goes nuts over this. Chump. Take your win, learn to be better.

    We learn that Corran was a Security Officer, and that Nawara was a lawyer, and that Corran had promised drinks and dinners if they won. What exactly is meant by Security Officer that means Police officer? Because Police work is not what I think of when I read Security Officer. This is definitely confusing. Maybe, Corran's previous job wasn't fully remembered from the comics. (Corran makes an appearance in the X-Wing comics when Wedge sends three of his pilots to Corellia. They meet Corran and Corran's partner, Iella.)

    End of Chapter Commentary:
    A quick introduction, some nice action, and some character identifiers. All in all, this chapter works but the scenario is bit awkward. It isn't really know outside the game, and while what happens is described, there is little of way it was included as a simulation. Maybe references to the RA using it's old campaign mission against the Empire to train new pilots would have helped.

    The entire scenario seems to intended as one of those bench mark tests that you would expect someone military to go through, a bit like the KM scenario, but if so, it's a bit strange. Knowing how well one pilot does until Warspite leaves, freeing up the other pilots, makes for a weird scenario to test for. There were other missions that could have been used. Was the Redemption mission simply that memorable compared to the others? Or was using one from the game rather than making one up easier? It seems a bit much to be banking on readers having played it.

    The X-wing action feels like it was pulled directly from the movies or the game, or even Zahn's books. It made use of good proper tactics/skills, though the ease with which Tie craft simply die is a bit over the top. Apparently, Tie craft are simply that bad or are easily destroyed. Missiles get used though, and expect to see way more of that.

    Regarding Corran Horn, we have seen in the comics, and now he is here. He comes across as a big arrogant sod with ego problems, but so far has shown signs of well, nothing. I can't see any flaws beyond being superstitious, but plenty of pilots are like that. I don't count the ego because, well, he is a pilot after all. It's curious that no one knows who the pilot who torched them is, despite probably being to research it.

    Unless, the limitations of what is known in universe is being applied, which would make sense why no one recognizes him. Most writers have forgotten to use separation in what the audience knows compared to what the characters would know. It's nice to see that apply here, because it seems to occur in so few instances.

    Not a bad way to start, all in all.

    Chapter 2, Wedge, Ackbar, and a keg of beer

    We start this chapter as happening during or before the simulator test in the last chapter. We get introduced to our major movers here, Wedge, Ackbar, and General Salm. Salm is a character transfer from the X-wing comics. He flew or flys Y-wings.

    Ackbar can make his eyes look different ways. I am sure that doesn't look creepy at all, and doesn't challenge what we have seen of him already capable of.

    Ackbar and Salm were discussing the unit, Wedge has complaints. Wedge is annoyed with the Propagandizing Rogue Squadron has experienced, turning into a symbol. Wedge prefers not for that to have happened. As a result of the propaganda machine, Wedge must accept politically appointed pilots in the new unit.

    The Bothans are still milking their discovery of the Death Star, and to appease the Bacta makers, the New Republic is sticking someone in. With Rogue Squadron so highly publicized, naturally everybody who can wants to get somebody in.

    Wedge isn't happy with that, but is willing to abuse it. He wants to replace another Corellian pilot, a lieutenant Deegan, with Gavin Darklighter, because overrepresentation is bad. Gavin is Bigg's cousin, which could provide drama for Wedge, but it does allow for somebody to be called Darklighter. Which is nice. Biggs has been sainted like all of the others who died blowing up the first Death Star.

    Wedge has to convince the other two to let him have Gavin. It's some nice arguing and it works. Gavin is only 16 though. But hey, it's Star Wars, the existence of child soldiers aren't a problem...(Besides the Jedi, the Clone Army, probably huge numbers of Rebel soldiers in most cases) It works.

    Wedge is trying to get rid of Aril Nunb as XO, because reasons. Besides the piloting methods, I think the real reason is that Sullustans look terrible in appearance. I mean, what other race in Star Wars has a fat baby cheeks face? They look terrible, I wouldn't want to spend any time around them either.

    Wedge would to replace baby cheeks with somebody else. Sadly, the RA doesn't seem to recruiting wookies. Why can't we have more wooks in the Alliance? They can fly ships can't they? But no Baby cheeks, so yay...

    Wedge picks Tycho Celchu. Salm has the expected outburst of protest. Apparently being from Alderaan means prison?

    Nope, Salm is concerned because Tycho volunteered to fly to Coruscant, got captured then escaped. Yes, I would be seriously concerned too. Wedge used a battle from before the volunteer mission to try to explain, and completely forgets about brainwashing. Has the idea of the Empire brainwashing people not shown up yet? I can't recall.

    Salm is worried about his troops, Wedge thinks he is being an arse. Wedge is being stupid.

    Tycho saves Wedge from being a complete tool by offering to accept limitations to himself, like flying in a Z-95 headhunter with almost no weapons systems with a bomb in it. His messages will be searched, he can be questioned about anything and he must have a chaperone.

    In other words, Tycho is suggesting to be either the CIA or NSA 's dream person. You can practically hearing either agency salivating at the prospect of having one of their own. Wonder if something needs to happen to let either have one....

    Salm still doesn't like it. Wedge is bit miffed and tries to sell Tycho. Hard to say if he succeeds. Ackbar considers the idea, while Salm questions it all.

    Wedge jumps the gun and has Tycho fly against Corran; Salm is not amused. Ackbar points out that Wedge is being hasty. Wedge has to acknowledge that maybe he should have asked permission.

    According to Wedge, Jace is arrogant and Corran is impatient. I would have said that both are arrogant, and that both have an ego. I also don't see the impatience yet, nor do I think it is accurate. I would say more that Corran is impulsive, not impatient.

    Does Wedge have a degree in couching? (Speaking to a shrink) He believes that having Corran shot up in simulations will cure him. I don't think it really works that way. Pop-shrinkiery then. We do learn that Wedge is bit of a real bastard.

    Tycho shows up having been fetched. Ackbar interviews him, and decides to allow Wedge's idea. Wedge cannot resist preening in front of Salm. Yes, Wedge, I get that you won, but you shouldn't really ruffle Salm's feathers that bloodly much!

    Ackbar assigns a droid to Wedge to help write reports, Wedge passes on needing it, and Ackbar shakes him down over not accepting promotions as why Wedge must accept it.

    Ackbar asks, Tycho tells him that the Empire is likely to fall soon because of the pilots they have. Right. 12 pilots can completely wreck the Empire. Main characters must do everything anyone?

    End of Chapter Commentary:
    Mainly introduces that Salm suspects Tycho, that Wedge sticks by his friends, and that the Rebellion is driven by ego. Or bravado. Or awareness that thanks to Lucas they will definitely win. Despite that, I like seeing less fat baby people and I still don't know what Lucas was thinking in making that first Sullustan that joins Lando in Episode 6. We didn't see one anywhere else, but apparently because one showed up in the movies, it must appear in the books. I don't recall if any appeared in Zahn's novels, but if not, then thank goodness.

    This chapter has little plot beyond gathering the party, and we will get to see how they will work out. The Rogues are supposed to be part of an elite squadron and we can see how much they live up to that standard.

    Also, no ocean metaphors from Ackbar. I had thought there was one, but it might be later when Wedge is trying to sell Ackbar on Wraith Squadron. Well, we can still keep watch.

    Tallies For Important Recorded Events)

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    AuOM (Ackbar uses Ocean Metaphor): 0

    So for those following along: Did anything stand out to you? Was anything particularly memorable? Anything that is easily quotable? Impressions? Start discussing!

    (More chapters to come up in groups of 2 every other day or every couple of days)
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    I pronounce it oo rill Qi r gg
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    I had a problem with the overuse of missiles to be honest, for two different reasons. The first is that it seems pretty jarring with what we've seen in the films where the (turbo)laser is the default weapon of choice for everyone; sure the X-Wings and Y-Wings in A New Hope have torpedoes but they are shown to work much more like pinpoint pilot guided bombs than aircraft to aircraft guided missiles (I believe the trench run in the film was partly inspired by the bouncing bombs in The Dam Busters). In the X-Wing books they are everywhere... for one side.

    That brings me to the other reason I don't like the superabundance of missiles. They seem confined to one side. An X-Wing is already a much better craft than a TIE-Fighter. It has more lasers, it is more rugged and of course it has shields. Now give the X-Wings a significant payload of missiles, something TIEs lack entirely and effectively eliminates the TIE's few advantages (numbers and sheer speed) and the odds tilt absurdly towards our heroes. It hurts the tension and makes the Rogues look quite a bit less heroic and badass, rather lucky to be flying greatly superior craft.

    That complaint aside I actually enjoyed the chapters so far. I do find myself much preferring Tycho to Corran, perhaps because of his humility and willingness to put up with a lot of constraints contrast nicely with Corran's ego and immaturity. Oddly though (despite liking Tycho) I quite sympathise with General Salm. I can't imagine leading lumbering bomber squadrons in out of date ships is anything like as glamorous as being in the ace fighter squadrons.

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    Start the engines, K2. I'll get my helmet!

    Had the books in English lying here for a good time now but didn't get around to start them yet. I think the last time I read them must have been almost 20 years ago.

    I am really looking forward to see how all that urban terrorism stuff comes across these days.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RossN View Post
    I had a problem with the overuse of missiles to be honest, for two different reasons. The first is that it seems pretty jarring with what we've seen in the films where the (turbo)laser is the default weapon of choice for everyone; sure the X-Wings and Y-Wings in A New Hope have torpedoes but they are shown to work much more like pinpoint pilot guided bombs than aircraft to aircraft guided missiles (I believe the trench run in the film was partly inspired by the bouncing bombs in The Dam Busters). In the X-Wing books they are everywhere... for one side.

    That brings me to the other reason I don't like the superabundance of missiles. They seem confined to one side. An X-Wing is already a much better craft than a TIE-Fighter. It has more lasers, it is more rugged and of course it has shields. Now give the X-Wings a significant payload of missiles, something TIEs lack entirely and effectively eliminates the TIE's few advantages (numbers and sheer speed) and the odds tilt absurdly towards our heroes. It hurts the tension and makes the Rogues look quite a bit less heroic and badass, rather lucky to be flying greatly superior craft.
    Firstly, they are Torpedoes, missiles are actually different in Star Wars. Secondly firing Torpedoes at fighter craft is a Rogue Squadron tactic. They do it because the Torpedoes have longer range than the Turbolasers and they are typically outnumbered by a lot and so they need to even it up a bit. Plus it lets them shoot at capital ships and actually do something.

    Quote Originally Posted by RossN View Post
    That complaint aside I actually enjoyed the chapters so far. I do find myself much preferring Tycho to Corran, perhaps because of his humility and willingness to put up with a lot of constraints contrast nicely with Corran's ego and immaturity. Oddly though (despite liking Tycho) I quite sympathise with General Salm. I can't imagine leading lumbering bomber squadrons in out of date ships is anything like as glamorous as being in the ace fighter squadrons.
    He gets a lot better as the series goes on.
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    The torpedoes and missiles we saw used in TCW also had pretty respectable homing capability (and there were those missiles used in ROTS as well).

    It does make them a little more versatile than real ones, admittedly.

    It's like crossing a Phoenix missile with an Exocet missile - to get something that's both a good fighter-killer and a good ship-killer.

    It takes a lot of proton torpedoes to take down the biggest ships though - because of shields. Even when a shield is down, fighter torpedoes are usually thrown at Star Destroyers by the dozen - we never hear of one torpedo killing an unshielded Star Destroyer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    It takes a lot of proton torpedoes to take down the biggest ships though - because of shields. Even when a shield is down, fighter torpedoes are usually thrown at Star Destroyers by the dozen - we never hear of one torpedo killing an unshielded Star Destroyer.
    Ya, the squadron fires them in one big wave in order to overwhelm the shield generators. And while one torpedo won't kill a Star Destroyer, it will break the bridge which will cripple it.
    Last edited by Blackhawk748; 2017-02-04 at 12:02 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    Firstly, they are Torpedoes, missiles are actually different in Star Wars. Secondly firing Torpedoes at fighter craft is a Rogue Squadron tactic. They do it because the Torpedoes have longer range than the Turbolasers and they are typically outnumbered by a lot and so they need to even it up a bit. Plus it lets them shoot at capital ships and actually do something.
    The problem though is that X-Wings already have substantial advantages that even the score with TIE Fighters: far greater endurance, shields, greater number of lasers.

    Adding torpedoes to the mix effectively tilts the deck far too radically in favour of the Rogues. Our heroes don't, necessarily, have to be scrappy underdogs but it robs a lot of tension if the good guys have weapons that can effortlessly pick off the opposition long before they become a threat. It also makes it harder to see the Rogues as particularly skilled combat pilots. It would be different if torpedoes versus fighter craft required superb skills but if anything they seem to require less ability than standard dogfighting - as you point out they have longer range and do more damage against a foe that can't fire back.

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    The torpedoes and missiles we saw used in TCW also had pretty respectable homing capability (and there were those missiles used in ROTS as well).

    It does make them a little more versatile than real ones, admittedly.

    It's like crossing a Phoenix missile with an Exocet missile - to get something that's both a good fighter-killer and a good ship-killer.

    It takes a lot of proton torpedoes to take down the biggest ships though - because of shields. Even when a shield is down, fighter torpedoes are usually thrown at Star Destroyers by the dozen - we never hear of one torpedo killing an unshielded Star Destroyer.
    I admit I never watched TCW so I can't really comment to that.

    I do understand the real life reasons for such a weapon, but my problem is not that it is implausible (it isn't) but that it hurts the narrative. It makes the villains seem far less dangerous when their own fighters are so absurdly outclassed and it makes the heroes look less heroic.

    Remember this also a universe where the Rebels/New Republic have access to both dedicated bombers (Y-Wings) and capital ships of their own. Even an X-Wing shouldn't be able to everything really well.
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    They do have limited flight times though - only 30 seconds.

    And are expensive - in one of the later X-wing novels, winning over a planet that can build them in large numbers cheaply (Adumar) is the main plot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RossN View Post
    The problem though is that X-Wings already have substantial advantages that even the score with TIES: far greater endurance, shields, greater number of lasers.

    Adding torpedoes to the mix effectively tilts the deck far too radically in favour of the Rogues. Our heroes don't, necessarily, have to be scrappy underdogs but it robs a lot of tension if the good guys have weapons that can effortlessly pick off the opposition long before they become a threat. It also makes it harder to see the Rogues as particularly skilled combat pilots. It would be different if torpedoes versus fighter craft required superb skills but if anything they seem to require less ability than standard dogfighting - as you point out they have longer range and do more damage against a foe that can't fire back.
    The greater number of Turbolasers on the ship doesnt do a whole lot other than increase their fire rate. TIEs actually have a fair amount of firepower on that ship and they are stupid agile, so getting the lock in the first place is a pain, especially if the opposition has target lock warning systems. The divide between a TIE and an X-Wing isn't as massive as you would think.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    They do have limited flight times though - only 30 seconds.

    And are expensive - in one of the later X-wing novels, winning over a planet that can build them in large numbers cheaply (Adumar) is the main plot.
    Then Corran should be severely reprimanded for squandering a torpedo on a lone TIE, even in a sim. Doesn't he know rhose things cost money?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    The greater number of Turbolasers on the ship doesnt do a whole lot other than increase their fire rate. TIEs actually have a fair amount of firepower on that ship and they are stupid agile, so getting the lock in the first place is a pain, especially if the opposition has target lock warning systems. The divide between a TIE and an X-Wing isn't as massive as you would think.
    Yet you still admit there is a divide in favour of the X-Wing, even without accounting for the massive edge the torpedoes give them?

    As for a target lock being a pain surely ace fighter pilots by, definition, should be expected to use superior skills to do something like that? This is getting back to my point that the easy use of torpedoes cheapens the victories of Rogue Squadron; I have no doubt they are great pilots but if the enemy has to get far closer to have any chance at all it is hard to buy the Rogues as underdogs, no matter how nominally they might be outnumbered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RossN View Post
    Yet you still admit there is a divide in favour of the X-Wing, even without accounting for the massive edge the torpedoes give them?

    As for a target lock being a pain surely ace fighter pilots by, definition, should be expected to use superior skills to do something like that? This is getting back to my point that the easy use of torpedoes cheapens the victories of Rogue Squadron; I have no doubt they are great pilots but if the enemy has to get far closer to have any chance at all it is hard to buy the Rogues as underdogs, no matter how nominally they might be outnumbered.
    They do, im just saying that trying to get a target lock on a more agile ship isn't easy, so even though the torpedo is an "easy kill" its all relative.

    TIEs close the gap quickly and you have to remember that, while better, the X-Wings are usually outnumbered, minimum, 2:1 probably closer to 3:1 and it only gets worse from there. I wouldn't call that nominally.
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    Note on Chapter 1 commentary:
    I'm not an expert on the subject, and have never played the X-Wing games, but as I understand it the Redemption mission was one of the hardest missions in the original games. Hence, using it as the intro mission was designed to serve two main purposes. Firstly, showing readers who had played the games that the writers respected the canon that had come before, and secondly working to setup the idea that Corran's a great pilot in the minds of anyone familiar with the games by using the most difficult mission as his starting point and showing him winning.

    Quote Originally Posted by RossN View Post
    The first is that it seems pretty jarring with what we've seen in the films
    Understandable, but the given handwaves (RA doing much better at this time, much more ability to afford weapons, and both space battles in the movies had X-Wings saving torps for use against DS) I don't personally have an issue with the difference in on-screen and book performance myself.
    eliminates the TIE's few advantages (numbers and sheer speed)
    Other than the many, many times where they dump torps to kill a whole bunch of TIEs, and end up still outnumbered though. Kind of see where you're coming from here, but the torpedoes are really used more in the books as an excuse to face larger enemy forces than anything else.

    They're usually still outnumbered post-torps as I recall, and the TIE maneuverability never stops being an issue. If I recall correctly, in fact, one of the latter books has someone pul a maneuver where they hit atmo specifically to reduce the TIE maneuverability because they can't fight that good of a pilot in open space.

    Just throwing in my .02c. Understandable how you dislike the abundance of torp maneuvers in the books.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    I am really looking forward to see how all that urban terrorism stuff comes across these days.
    This is in Book 3, so it might be a bit to we get to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by RossN View Post
    The problem though is that X-Wings already have substantial advantages that even the score with TIE Fighters: far greater endurance, shields, greater number of lasers.
    While the X-wing is good, you are forgetting that it needs Torps for capital ships. Using Torps on groups of TIEs remove them for using against Capital Ships, and X-wings only have 6 total per individual craft.

    I think a big issue here is that Imperial officers use TIEs ineffectively. A mass of TIEs flying towards something should always be firing their weapons, creating a wall of fire. That happens once in Return of the Jedi, but it should have been standard tactics. Because Lucas displayed little good tactical sense for them, the Imperials have to employ poor tactics.

    Given how poorly Imperials employ mass fire tactics, the Rogues really don't need to use torps. Thanks to Lucas, TIEs are portrayed as being pretty terrible anyway. They suffer from the same supposedly bad Stormtrooper marksmanship, which is unfortunate. We saw TIEs hitting targets, so why are they terrible? If anything, TIEs encourage better piloting than worse, considering how easy it is to die.

    You are also forgetting that the standard Rebel pilot can be worse, because he doesn't fly a ship that easily kills you for mistakes. TIE Pilots die to less than Rebel Pilots, and that means surviving TIE pilots can get really good. Rebel pilots that are bad already don't die, so unless they learn, they stay bad. I think Rebel pilots are trained to rely more on shields than skills, since that is what it would encourage.

    Wedge is also trying to train an elite squadron, but given how poorly TIEs are treated, it is hard to see how the Rogues are elite. Apparently everybody is stupid, on both sides.

    There is no reason for the Empire to not start arming its standard fighter with torps considering how often they lose out. Why haven't the Imps picked up on this and used it? Because the "bad guys" can't have nice things. The Rebels win more because the Empire isn't allowed to win, and rarely does the Rebels actually win their victories.

    The Rebellion is a rag-tag bunch of misfits that are fighting against an organized military, who is losing by writer fiat. The Empire seems to be required to default to lousy tactics, despite shows of ability like the Hoth Fight. How much of a challenge could the Empire have been if it's pilots are that lousy? Or its troopers such bad shots? It breaks down when you are following a combat story like this one. The rebels claim quick cheap victories, and lose rather handedly against Thrawn, who is mostly competent Imperial officer.

    Given how dysfunctional the RA leadership is, it's a wonder how they could have won so much. The writers even had to make the Empire fragment to make the RA win. So just consider the heroes as being designated to win anyway, and not all writers being that good.

    More limitations on how much the Empire is actually sending against the rebels is another way that tries to explain how the rebels could have won. To be honest, I think it is resulting from the way that Lucas told the story, and the wrong messages being taken; like how amazing ewoks are supposed to be. The Ewoks should have been wiped out, not taking out so many; they also should have been Chewie's people.

    An Empire protected by such lousy sorts would never have worked, so freely blame Lucas for failing to realize how capable soldiers need to be for the Empire to function. Star Wars Authors have been trying to explain how the RA won for years.

    Washington's armies (the different colonial forces) got military training in order to fight against the Brits, and French help. When they didn't have that military training, Washington's armies lost nearly every battle against the British. The RA is essentially running on the same idea as Japan, that will is all that is needed, but while that proved false in real life, Lucas made it real and then made later Authors run with it.

    Everything is done story-wise to make the Empire look bad, all for the needs of plot.
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    Somewhere, Conan the Barbarian refuses to weep, and instead curses Crom for permitting WotC to botch his class so badly.
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    "Hey, have you any idea what these strange symbols are?"
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    Default Re: Let's Read: X-Wing Complete Series, All Books!

    Quote Originally Posted by Binks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RossN View Post
    Great idea for a thread! I've read the books before (save Mercy Kill) and I'm very interested in following this.
    I highly recommend picking up Mercy Kill if you enjoyed the Wraith books. It's a bit of a slow starter, but probably my favorite of the Wraith series books once I finished it (and that's saying a lot because I absolutely loved Solo Command).
    I, conversely, recommend never touching the book, especially if you enjoyed the Wraith Squadron books. I couldn't even finish it, and that's saying a lot because I absolutely loved the rest of the X-Wing series, especially Allston's stuff.
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    Quote Originally Posted by littlebum2002 View Post
    It would be nice to just change the title of this thread to be "stuff about Jedi"

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    Default Re: Let's Read: X-Wing Complete Series, All Books!

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    I, conversely, recommend never touching the book, especially if you enjoyed the Wraith Squadron books. I couldn't even finish it, and that's saying a lot because I absolutely loved the rest of the X-Wing series, especially Allston's stuff.
    I happen to like Mercy Kill. I have enjoyed reading it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Wookiee. 2 E's. [I am obsessed with this]
    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Wrath View Post
    Somewhere, Conan the Barbarian refuses to weep, and instead curses Crom for permitting WotC to botch his class so badly.
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglewingz View Post
    "Hey, have you any idea what these strange symbols are?"
    My First Let's Play

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    Default Re: Let's Read: X-Wing Complete Series, All Books!

    Quote Originally Posted by russdm View Post
    This is in Book 3, so it might be a bit to we get to it.
    I especially mean book 2, when the heroes do it.
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    Default Re: Let's Read: X-Wing Complete Series, All Books!

    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    I especially mean book 2, when the heroes do it.
    Well, considering that many of the what the Rebellion does could be considered terrorism but isn't because they are the heroes, I don't think that you can really claim what they are doing is domestic terrorism.

    To be honest, while it might be terrorism on the heroes part, Lucasfilm has always taken the view that the Rebels are the good guys no matter what, and so it really doesn't what exactly the Rebels do since they will always come out smelling sweet. They are also pretty bad at running the galaxy, with their dysfunctional council and then senate.

    Besides, the Rebels get a pass for targeting military targets. Simply think of them as being the same as the French Resistance in the second world war if helps to explain why the rebels are portrayed as being not wrong. I have not read or seen anything suggesting anything the French resistance did that was considered terrorism.

    I think people should have figured out that the movies/books/games can and should be considered Rebel propaganda for our consumption.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Wookiee. 2 E's. [I am obsessed with this]
    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Wrath View Post
    Somewhere, Conan the Barbarian refuses to weep, and instead curses Crom for permitting WotC to botch his class so badly.
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglewingz View Post
    "Hey, have you any idea what these strange symbols are?"
    My First Let's Play

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