Why all the theories about Belkar dying *right now*?

[Mith]

Your Rick.

I knew him well.

[martianmister]

Rick Burlew, creater of the Sacred Order of the Stick...

You mean Rick Baker, right?

[Samzat]

True, but it still has to make sense dramatically. We would need to switch back to him and give any impending death a little weight before it would be a possibility. It's almost guaranteed he isn't going to just die randomly during an encounter. Even Roy didn't die until he made a terrible decision to go after Xykon alone, and got a speech out of it.

damn that slipped my mind, similar to Pelee's remarks

[martianmister]

People wants to reward an unrepentant murderer with godhood.

Why?

[factotum]

People wants to reward an unrepentant murderer with godhood.

Why?

Because he occasionally says something funny, and apparently that's enough to forgive any amount of murder.

[hroþila]

It's fiction y'all.

But still, who said godhood is a "reward" only Good people may attain? There are Evil gods, including at least one former mortal.

[An Enemy Spy]

Because he occasionally says something funny, and apparently that's enough to forgive any amount of murder.

Because comic strip characters should be judged by the same standards as real people? Maybe tone down the condescending moralizing a bit. People like Belkar because he's entertaining to read, not because they have no problem with murder.

[Samzat]

Because comic strip characters should be judged by the same standards as real people? Maybe tone down the condescending moralizing a bit. People like Belkar because he's entertaining to read, not because they have no problem with murder.

And plus, his fake character growth seems to be slowly converting into real character growth, and please, he says funny things far more often than "occasionally"

[137beth]

Absolutely not! Malack might, Jake might, but not Rick.

I thought Jake the Snake was Malack's real name?

[Mightymosy]

Sure it could always happen, if say, the universe hated the stickverse, but...

1k GP says Belkar will not become a God in this story.
Any bets?

[factotum]

Because comic strip characters should be judged by the same standards as real people?

Um, yes, why shouldn't they be? I don't see why you should make a distinction between novels, TV shows, movies and comic strips for how you interpret the characters therein, unless you're talking about a three-panel joke strip in a newspaper--and I think OotS went past *that* level before it had even got into the teens in terms of strips produced.

[An Enemy Spy]

Um, yes, why shouldn't they be? I don't see why you should make a distinction between novels, TV shows, movies and comic strips for how you interpret the characters therein, unless you're talking about a three-panel joke strip in a newspaper--and I think OotS went past *that* level before it had even got into the teens in terms of strips produced.

I think you're fixating on the "comic strip" part of my statement instead of the part where I essentially said that fictional characters shouldn't be judged on the same lines as real people.

[Kish]

Ironically, the suggestion that the blood-soaked murderer will get away with it and be rewarded for his murders is tantamount to "maybe it will be more like real life and less like a story."

[obstructor]

Because he occasionally says something funny, and apparently that's enough to forgive any amount of murder.

And we can't kill a member of the party... Oh wait

I guess he isn't really gone as we were getting those inception comics here and there.

[factotum]

I think you're fixating on the "comic strip" part of my statement instead of the part where I essentially said that fictional characters shouldn't be judged on the same lines as real people.

In that case, I disagree there as well. If you're not judging and reacting to fictional characters as real people then somebody involved in the production of your fiction has not done their job properly...it's called "immersion".

[hroþila]

In that case, I disagree there as well. If you're not judging and reacting to fictional characters as real people then somebody involved in the production of your fiction has not done their job properly...it's called "immersion".

There's a difference between "immersion" and "not being able to tell reality from fiction".

[ti'esar]

I think most people who judge Belkar harshly can tell that he's fictional.

[factotum]

There's a difference between "immersion" and "not being able to tell reality from fiction".

I am fully aware of the difference between the two, thank you. Fine. You and An Enemy Spy continue to think everything Belkar does is A-OK because he's a fictional character and it doesn't matter (although apparently it *does* matter enough to you for you to defend his behaviour), and I'll continue to regard him as a multiple murderer with anger issues and judge him on that basis.

[hroþila]

I am fully aware of the difference between the two, thank you. Fine. You and An Enemy Spy continue to think everything Belkar does is A-OK because he's a fictional character and it doesn't matter (although apparently it *does* matter enough to you for you to defend his behaviour), and I'll continue to regard him as a multiple murderer with anger issues and judge him on that basis.

He *is* a multiple murderer with anger issues. I just take issue with the pontificating about how no decent person should be OK with him as a character in a fictional story.

[factotum]

That's good, because I never said anything like that? I'm perfectly OK with Belkar being a character in the story, I just don't like him and find it odd that people will go to enormous lengths to excuse what he does.

[littlebum2002]

I take it you never liked the movie "Payback".

[factotum]

I take it you never liked the movie "Payback".

I've never seen it, so I wouldn't know.

[littlebum2002]

I've never seen it, so I wouldn't know.

It's the embodiment of a very familiar trope in which the protagonist is a "bad guy", usually worse than just an anti-hero like Han Solo. Some examples:

Black Mage from 8Bit Theatre
the main characters in Natural Born Killers
Everyone in Reservoir Dogs (except Mr. Orange)
The Usual Suspects
Starship Troopers

etc. It's not exactly new for there to be an Evil protagonist, and it's not new for people to root for them.

[Jasdoif]

It's not exactly new for there to be an Evil protagonist, and it's not new for people to root for them.

Usually, though, that's because people approve even less of whoever they're doing Evil things to. Belkar's wanton targeting outside the antagonist field doesn't quite have the same effect.

[Kish]

It's the embodiment of a very familiar trope in which the protagonist is a "bad guy", usually worse than just an anti-hero like Han Solo. Some examples:

Black Mage from 8Bit Theatre
the main characters in Natural Born Killers
Everyone in Reservoir Dogs (except Mr. Orange)
The Usual Suspects
Starship Troopers

etc. It's not exactly new for there to be an Evil protagonist, and it's not new for people to root for them.

It's also not new for other people to go, "Why are you rooting for that row of asterisks?" and, if the medium in question isn't all about its own super-kewl pointlessness and how nothing means anything, "You know they're going to come to a sticky end, right?"

(I'd also point out that the list you cite is still a tiny minority of fictional works. "WhatTheHellHero" is a trope name because, still, by default heroes are expected to be heroic.)

[littlebum2002]

Here, I found it. Belkar is even the defining character. It's the "Heroic Comedic Sociopath" and there are dozens of examples

I mean, look at Always Sunny in Philadelphia. Every one of the main characters is a genuinely terrible person, yet you still root for them every show, even when they're often terrorizing good people, so you can't say it's just because "they're less bad than their rivals".

[Jasdoif]

I mean, look at Always Sunny in Philadelphia. Every one of the main characters is a genuinely terrible person, yet you still root for them every show, even when they're often terrorizing good people, so you can't say it's just because "they're less bad than their rivals".

Not always just because "they're less bad than their rivals". Sometimes people want to excuse anything solely because it's portrayed as funny. Always Sunny in Philadelphia is (apparently; I'd never even heard of it so I had to look it up) a black comedy, so that's to expected with the genre; but it seems out of place in a heroic fantasy, even a comedic heroic fantasy.

[Kish]

(apparently; I'd never even heard of it so I had to look it up)

I'd just like to highlight this, and point out that littlebum2002 is assuming, in essence, that everyone consumes all the media they do and reacts to it the same way they do. I suspect a lot of people, particularly the ones who find Belkar Bitterleaf unsympathetic, are going, "What now?" at all their examples.

[Yendor]

I remember someone whining about Belkar getting comeuppance for his sociopathy, and comparing him to Black Mage -- who's been through far worse than Belkar ever has on a regular basis, including literally puking his guts out.

Personally, I found the protagonists in the Starship Troopers film so thoroughly unlikable I wanted the bugs to win before they even showed up.

[factotum]

I view Starship Troopers the movie slightly differently. When it comes down to it, it's fascist humans versus assorted bug monsters, and while neither side is exactly "good", I'm going to root for the ones that won't suck my brains out at the slightest provocation. (People really should read the book if they want a genuinely sympathetic depiction of a right-wing "might is right" society, though, Verhoeven got too hung up on his Nazi analogies to bring that aspect into the movie).