PF - Lists of Undead Creation and Creatable Undead

[Coidzor]

So any ideas on how to differentiate creating a Relentless Zombie from a Fast Zombie?

Also, the whole Magus Skeletons and Magus Zombies, are those just supposed to be variants of skeletal champions and zombie lords or is there some level of implication that they could actually be created by Animate Dead somehow?

Their inclusion seems strange, given that Skeletal Champions and Skeletal Mages and Zombie Lords already existed and could have low level spellcasting anyway. Or maybe all those references to low level spellcasting are from the Magus Skeletons and Zombies?

By switching out the associated spell IIRC. It doesn't but it does grant the Unhallow spell which in turn buffs undead creation.Meant to add the 'honorable mention' identifier there. Apologies.

Ahh. I missed that aspect of Unhallow. I thought it was just Desecrate that buffed undead creation.

Use it as the necromancy implement on a (Necr)Occultist.

Ooo, neat.

[unseenmage]

So any ideas on how to differentiate creating a Relentless Zombie from a Fast Zombie?

By RAW it doesn't look like we are allowed to create the variants listed with the Relentless Zombie as those variants weren't given any creation info. Which is also why I didn't include them above with the Creatable Undead section.
However, allowing for the creation of ANY variant undead using the guideline for creating variant skeletons and zombies would be a reasonable houserule.

Also, the whole Magus Skeletons and Magus Zombies, are those just supposed to be variants of skeletal champions and zombie lords or is there some level of implication that they could actually be created by Animate Dead somehow?

Their inclusion seems strange, given that Skeletal Champions and Skeletal Mages and Zombie Lords already existed and could have low level spellcasting anyway. Or maybe all those references to low level spellcasting are from the Magus Skeletons and Zombies?

...

As with the Relentless Zombie I don't recall seeing any creation info for them. But as you point out they look to be analogous to the Skeletal Mage/Zombie Lord so they'd be a reasonable substitution.

[Coidzor]

Out of curiosity, does it say anywhere what size of creature is necessary to make a Giant Beheaded or how many heads/skulls are necessary to make a Skull Swarm?

[unseenmage]

Out of curiosity, does it say anywhere what size of creature is necessary to make a Giant Beheaded or how many heads/skulls are necessary to make a Skull Swarm?

Not that I remember, no. Which I found odd. So the default could be to determine what size category of originating creature a giant beheaded can come from and gather an aporopriate number of heads for the swarm based on the swarm descriptive text.

OR just say 'Magic did it' and be done with it.
At our table we decided magic did it.

[TheFamilarRaven]

gravesludge is an ooze whose victims become juju zombies. Didn't see it on your list of so I'd thought I'd mention it.

Like your list. Always wanted to make a necromancer but didn't really have the know-how to pull it off. This is a great help.

[Florian]

Always wanted to make a necromancer but didn't really have the know-how to pull it off. This is a great help.

Don´t try unless you´re ready to be disappointed. Because undead are permanent creations, they suck even more than unaugmented summons. Ok, you can build around all that, but the end result will hardly be a necromancer.

[unseenmage]

gravesludge is an ooze whose victims become juju zombies. Didn't see it on your list of so I'd thought I'd mention it.

Like your list. Always wanted to make a necromancer but didn't really have the know-how to pull it off. This is a great help.

Sweet, thanks. Will add to the list.

[Florian]

Sweet, thanks. Will add to the list.

Bestiary 6 also has some interesting options.

Creators:
- Giant, Tomb (Can also help reassemble corpses)
- Nekomata (Create Undead)
- Vrykolakas (Create Spawn)

Undead to be created:
- Siabriae (Druid Lich, includes Occult Ritual)
- Zombie, Spore

[Coidzor]

There might also be some discussion to be had about the Troop subtype and its compatibility with Undead, especially from the PC end of things.

[Florian]

There might also be some discussion to be had about the Troop subtype and its compatibility with Undead, especially from the PC end of things.

You can turn anything you have 12-30 of and is up to medium-size into a troop. Anything larger needs a bit of adjustment with the size of the troop. Check the rules for creating mass battle armies and you´ll find sample special abilities for troops.

[unseenmage]

Bestiary 6 also has some interesting options.

Creators:
- Giant, Tomb (Can also help reassemble corpses)
- Nekomata (Create Undead)
- Vrykolakas (Create Spawn)

Undead to be created:
- Siabriae (Druid Lich, includes Occult Ritual)
- Zombie, Spore

Some of these I had and some of them I didn't have so thanks. A couple aren't creatable, that I saw, and so just weren't included.


Am considering a section on Liches but not sure how deep that rabbit hole goes.

[Coidzor]

What do you think of these Necrocraft (using the two houserule proposals here regarding limiting total number of CP and also number of CP that can be spent to get Extra Attacks/Legs/Movement Modes) setups for Medium and Large Necrocraft that will be trying to punch above their weight class to actually damage and last more than a single round of combat(in groups) against level 8 to level 10 PC-classed characters?

Spoiler: Medium Necrocraft CR 5 (8 CP)

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Medium Undead CR 5
HP: 34/34 (4d8+16) (Desecrate+Evil Altar)
Init [[1d20+1]] Perception: [[1d20]]
Speed: 30
Darkvision 60' Space/Reach: 5'/5'

AC: 18, touch 9, flat-footed 18 (-1 Dex, +6 Natural, +3 Armor)
CMD: 16
DR 5/Bludgeoning, Resist Cold 5

Saves:
Fort +2
Refl +0
Will +4

BAB: +3
CMB: +7 (+11 to grapple)

Charge Attack: Claw +9 Damage 1d4+4 & Grab (1d20+11) + Constrict 1d4+4

Full Attack: 4 Claws +7 Damage 1d4+4 & Grab (1d20+11) + Constrict 1d4+4

Abilities:
Str 15, Dex 13, Con —, Int —, Wis 10, Cha 13

Toughness(bonus)

CP 8 total
2 CP Extra Strength x2
2 CP Extra Attack x2
2 CP Grab + Constrict
1 CP Mostly Skeletons
1 CP Bone Armor

Spoiler: Large Necrocraft CR 8 (13 CP)

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Large Undead CR 8
HP: 59/59 (7d8+28)
Init [[1d20]] Perception: [[1d20]]
Speed: 30 ft;
Darkvision 60' Space/Reach: 10'/10'

AC: 24, touch 9, flat-footed 24 (-1 size, +12 Natural, +3 Armor)
CMD: 22
DR 5/Bludgeoning, Resist Cold 5

Saves:
Fort +3
Refl +0
Will +5

BAB: +5
CMB: 14 (+18 to grapple)
Charge Attack: Claw +14 Damage 1d6+8 & grab ([[1d20+18]]) + Constrict 1d6+8

Full Attack: 5 Claws +12 Damage 1d6+8 & grab ([[1d20+18]]) + Constrict 1d6+8


Abilities:
Str 27, Dex 7, Con —, Int —, Wis 10, Cha 13

Toughness(bonus), Grab(+4 grapple), Constrict([[1d6+8]]), All-Around Vision(no flanking), Mostly Skeletons (DR 5/Bludgeoning, Cold Resist 5)

CP 13 total (13/13 spent)
2 CP = Extra Strength 2x (+4 Str, -4 Dex)
3 CP = Bone Armor (+6 Natural Armor)
3 CP = Extra Attack (+3 Claw attacks)
1 CP = Grab on all Claws
1 CP = Constrict on all grabs
2 CP = All Around Vision (no flanking)
1 CP = Mostly Skeletons (DR 5, Cold Resist 5)

[unseenmage]

So the friend of mine whose houserules those are replied to my query about your query in chat.

Here's what they had to say compiled:

You have the first one's Str listed as a 15 and its Dex as a 13. They should be a 19 and 9, respectively. Other than that, fix the CP listing format for the first one so it matches the second one's, and you're golden.


CP 8 total (8/8 spent)
2 CP = Extra Strength 2x (+4 Str, -4 Dex)
1 CP = Bone Armor (+2 Natural Armor)
2 CP = Extra Attack (+2 Claw attacks)
1 CP = Grab on all Claws
1 CP = Constrict on all grabs
1 CP = Mostly Skeletons (DR 5, Cold Resist 5)

Also, if you're going to make a note in the first one about desecrate and evil altars, you need to do it in the second one, too.

Crap. Initiatives are wrong, as well. Unless I'm mistaken, first one should be at -1, second one at -2.

Touch AC on the second one should be 7, not 9.

Why did you list the charge attacks?

For my part I missed all the errors he caught. Apologies but gauging power levels of statblocks was never my strong suite.
Which is why I tend towards layered effects instead.

[Coidzor]

I just was looking this over and was reminded of how it doesn't seem to include Canopic Conversion or Create Variant Mummy or the undead that they can create in the direct list of creatable undead.

[unseenmage]

I just was looking this over and was reminded of how it doesn't seem to include Canopic Conversion or Create Variant Mummy or the undead that they can create in the direct list of creatable undead.

I completely missed Canopic Conversion but Create Variant Mummy was already in the list of spells that create undead in the OP. Also, when I googled the Ice Mummy this thread came up in the first page of results. Turns out it was listed down with the Mummy variants.

I added links to the variant mummies each spell creates next to the spell listings and added the additional Mummy variants to the variants list as well. Thanks for the heads up!

EDIT:
Adding a section for undead control because here is as good a place as any.

Spoiler: Creatures that can boss undead around

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Creatures with Control Undead
Deathsnatcher (19HD; CL18 SLA)
Devourer (14HD; CL18 SLA)
Grim Reaper (28HD; CL20 SLA)
Immortal Ichor (20HD; CL17 SLA)
Kudimmu (24HD; SU ability)
Tomb Giant (13HD; CL12 SLA)
Wyrmwraith (24HD; CL24 SLA)
Zahhak (26HD; CL17 SLA)

Creatures with Command Undead spell
Adult Umbral Dragon (17HD; CL17 SLA)
Ancient Umbral Dragon (25HD; CL15 SLA)
Ashava (33HD; SU ability)
Bloodless Vessel (18HD; CL10 potential SLA)
Deathsnatcher (19HD; CL18 SLA)
Druj Nasu (10HD; CL10 SLA)
Lorelei (12HD; CL12 SLA)
Nekomata (8HD; CL6 SLA)
Orphne (6HD; CL6 SLA)
Pukwudgie (9HD; CL10 SLA)
Rabisu (14HD; CL12 SLA)
Rawhead (16HD; CL14 SLA)
Sayona (17HD; CL12 SLA)
Shredskin (4HD; CL3 SLA)
Wyrmwraith (24HD; CL24 SLA)

Creatures with Channel Energy
Hooded Harbinger (17HD; 3/day DC 21)
Mother’s Maw (18HD; 9/day DC 19)
Nightcrawler (25HD; 9/day DC 31)
Nightprowler (13HD; 7/day DC 20)
Nightwalker (21HD; 8/day DC 29)
Nightwave (29HD; 10/day DC 33)
Nightwing (17HD; 8/day DC 28)

Creatures with Undead Mastery
10HD; Graveknight
7HD; Labyrinth Guardian
9HD; Mummy Lord
HD varies; Template Graft: Graveknight

[Tedective]

I very much enjoy undead and found plenty of resources 3.X and PF to utilize.

Of note, you could get ghoul miners to dig up onyx for you, pay them in meat by casting Stone to Flesh on dug up rocks, then animate skeletons through Stone to Flesh. For more earth thematics, use a Fossilizing Rod to give them hardness 8, then cast Hardening to increase their DR moreso. The ghouls are then replaceable with a Necrocraft. If you're not allowed to just animate the rocks, Stone Shape or Gloves of Shaping helps finesse out bones from rubble. More points if you're a dwarf. You also get a very elaborate tunnel system.

For uncapped undead control, Van Richten's Guide to the Walking Dead (Ravenloft) suggests the Reign Undead skill. Use this to make butlers (or armies).

Animate Skeleton (3rd Party PF spell) is 1st level and gives you 1 skeleton. Command Undead it and cast Animate Skeleton again for 2 skeletons at level 1. 6 if you have Stitched-Flesh Familiar (Which leans nicely into the Spell-Stitched Creature template from MMII 3.5.

Rod of Undead Mastery is my favorite magic item; by paying 50% more per magic item, one could tac on Scepter of the Netherworld, Nightstick, Talisman of Undead Mastery, and Staff of Dark Flame. Just pass it around your Leadership followers and you'll have an army as fast as you can say "28 days later".

Most all Skeleton variants stack. My favorite is Bloody Mudra Archer with a Fossilizing Rod effect. I could go on and on, and am making a text document of useful resources.