Hearthstone 19: Patches In All The Wrong Places

[Fable Wright]

So, been having some decent successes with a semi-control Elemental Shaman list. Could use some thoughts on it. This version is very (VERY) removal-heavy, repeatedly clearing the board and sniping larger threats while keeping up the Elemental rhythm.

Spoiler: Elemental Control Shaman

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2x Fire Fly

2x Flametongue Totem
2x Jade Claws
2x Maelstrom Portal

2x Stonehill Defender
2x Mana Tide Totem
2x Tar Creeper
2x Lightning Storm
2x Hex

2x Jade Lightning

2x Servant of Kalimos
2x Volcano

1x Aya Blackpaw
2x Thing From Below

2x Blazecaller

1x Kalimos, the Primal Lord

I had to cut Hot Spring from this list to make room for Hex, since I was getting sick of losing to hard removal targets. Space is ludicrously tight right now.

Flametongue Totem: How good has it been for you, really? It dies to your own volcano, you don't have much aggressive support for it, and it seems that its only use is to buff Tar Creeper and Stonehill. How good is that, really?

Otherwise, I'm not sure what you want to pull with Stonehill, and I'm also not sold on the jade package. I would also add in one Bloodlust as a finisher, as a board full of unanswered totems going face wins games fast. That said, I'm not very familiar with the archetype, so you probably know a lot more than I do on the matter.

[Seerow]

Flametongue Totem: How good has it been for you, really? It dies to your own volcano, you don't have much aggressive support for it, and it seems that its only use is to buff Tar Creeper and Stonehill. How good is that, really?

Otherwise, I'm not sure what you want to pull with Stonehill, and I'm also not sold on the jade package. I would also add in one Bloodlust as a finisher, as a board full of unanswered totems going face wins games fast. That said, I'm not very familiar with the archetype, so you probably know a lot more than I do on the matter.

I actually didn't notice the Stonehill, and now kind of want to include it into my list. Being able to pull an extra Thing Below, White Eyes, or Earth Elemental can all be back breaking for an opponent who runs out of answers. Stone Sentinal, Al'Akir, and Hot Spring Guardian are all pretty solid as well. It's not as insane as the picks you get from Paladin, but above average overall, possibly better than what Warrior gets from it.

[PsyBomb]

@deck type: it's either a rapid Control or really patient Tempo list, depending on your point of view. I waver between them depending on my opponent.

@flametongue: surprisingly good, actually. My best openers have it supporting either Fire Fly/Elemental, Jade Golem, or the Portal summon. It's not much of a liability in the event of a Volcano turn, actually, it either makes up for itself or already got blitzed.

@stonehill: this card inspired the particular variation you're looking at, since it leads into the Things, which lead into the totems. Tons of value, and lots of excellent hits virtually guaranteeing a good one.

[Mando Knight]

It dies to your own volcano,

If you're in a position where Volcano is a good move, you're probably not in a position where keeping the Flametongue Totem is an option anyway.

[Tvtyrant]

Anyone open for a "challenge a friend for 80?" If so send me a message, I will be on for about 30 more minutes.

Done.

[PsyBomb]

Brawl is up, and it's actually pretty fun. Basic and Classic cards, no Epics or Legendaries. I came in running Zoolock and had a blast.

[Zevox]

Brawl is up, and it's actually pretty fun. Basic and Classic cards, no Epics or Legendaries. I came in running Zoolock and had a blast.

Yeah, not bad. Wish it had epics and legendaries so I could break out a super-classic Control Warrior, but instead I went with old-school Midrange Shaman - though sadly minus Azure Drake. They must still be enforcing Standard rotation, since that was just not available to select.

Still, it was fun getting to actually use Unbound Elemental again. I crushed the Hunter I was up against - though I think in part because he seemed like he just threw together a simple beast-themed deck rather than made a coherent old-school deck. Must not have been around for the days of Classic to remember how to build an old Face or Midrange Hunter, I guess.

[Spore]

Brawl is up, and it's actually pretty fun. Basic and Classic cards, no Epics or Legendaries. I came in running Zoolock and had a blast.

I enjoy these decks too much because I am a cheap butthole and dust all golden cards I have. So I use opportunities like these ot make completely golden basic decks. Golden Mage Golden Basic deck to kill opponents with. Just because I want to play with the shiny cards once too.

[Destro_Yersul]

Lost my first game due to a misplaced defender of argus. Just like old times.

[PsyBomb]

Yeah, not bad. Wish it had epics and legendaries so I could break out a super-classic Control Warrior, but instead I went with old-school Midrange Shaman - though sadly minus Azure Drake. They must still be enforcing Standard rotation, since that was just not available to select.

Still, it was fun getting to actually use Unbound Elemental again. I crushed the Hunter I was up against - though I think in part because he seemed like he just threw together a simple beast-themed deck rather than made a coherent old-school deck. Must not have been around for the days of Classic to remember how to build an old Face or Midrange Hunter, I guess.

Yeah, Power Overwhelming was also missing. I think they did the rotation by creating a new set designation entirely, then moving the cards to it. Means they don't pop in packs, and also no longer show as Classic set.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

I can't wait to get home and try out the Brawl. Hopefully before someone locks onto the "best deck" and disseminates it through the interwebs. Basic might be basic, but there are some gems in the Classic set I believe.

To my mind this is a pretty decent way of putting players on an even field without handing them RNG-assembled decks or questionably balanced pre-mades with weird rules.

[Zevox]

I can't wait to get home and try out the Brawl. Hopefully before someone locks onto the "best deck" and disseminates it through the interwebs. Basic might be basic, but there are some gems in the Classic set I believe.

To my mind this is a pretty decent way of putting players on an even field without handing them RNG-assembled decks or questionably balanced pre-mades with weird rules.

I doubt that there's a clear enough best deck to become agreed upon in the short time the Brawl's up. There's no fancy rules to supercharge any deck here, just the pre-Naxx meta minus epics, legendaries, and Hall of Fame cards. The decks from that era that relied least on high-rarity cards will be good, like Midrange Shaman, Zoolock, or Midrange Hunter, but it would be surprising if any one of them was clearly top of the heap that fast.

Warrior will probably suck, since the only Warrior deck from back then was Control, and it loses too much without the higher-rarity cards. Priest, Mage, and Paladin are probably bad, since they were the worst classes back in those days even with high-rarity cards, with only maybe Mage aggro being worth a shot. Druid... hm, don't know how they'll do in light of the nerfing their classic power cards took when standard became a thing. Handlock sadly can't even be tried without the Giants, and Molten being nerfed.

(Really, that's is the problem I see with this: removing high-rarity cards mostly just makes the Control decks much worse. Midrange and Aggro just end up ruling.)

[PsyBomb]

A heavy Secret Tempo Mage seems to be doing well, actually.

[Winthur]

Priest, Mage, and Paladin are probably bad, since they were the worst classes back in those days even with high-rarity cards, with only maybe Mage aggro being worth a shot.

Really? Inner Fire Priest seems to have most of his setpieces available in this game mode whereas Mage has, in my purview, always had the best basic cards of them all. Fireball, Polymorph, Water Elemental are much better than stuff like Warlock class cards, and you can just jam them into any play-on-curve deck with Yeti on turn 4 and Boulderfist on turn 6. Terrible Basic 5-drops are accounted for because Mage can just Fireblast his Gurubashi Berserker. Mage, to my Rank 18 F2P ass, seemed like the go-to choice, right before I thought of Face Hunter.

That said, I ended up making a Zoolock, since I already play a Zoolock in ranked mostly with the same classic cards anyway (I run Kara-Kazham from ONiK, though, but for some reason whenever I put it in play it doesn't have any impact. Also, some Fire Flies). Voidwalker, Abusive, a whole bunch of other 1-2 drops, Defender of Argus and Stormwind Champion. Free pack came quite easily.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Got my free pack, decided to stay and knock out murlocalypse and death to the living. So my decks were built with that in mind. Rogue/Druid, because that's my third daily.

It's pretty cool, trying to alter your anticipation to fit your opponent's also-reduced card pool. Thought my 8/8 taunt was safe after opponent sunk two fireballs, but then Polymorph.

Also got beaten by that Paladin 5/6 who heals face. Haven't seen them in a while lol.

Kind of expected Mage to be strong in this meta, and it seems to be the case.

[Gandariel]

I just made a very oldschool (and I mean Shieldbearer-Oldschool) Zoo and won a couple games. Opponents were a Hunter who played basically nothing and an Inner fire priest who didn't draw inner fire (but made the game surprisingly close due to 2x Holy Nova, 2x Holy fire and top deck Death on my Doomguars) .
Fun mode!

[Thialfi]

I went pretty basic tempo mage in my one and done. I was matched against someone that wanted priest to work. I love priest, but not in this brawl.

[Rodin]

I found it surprisingly hard to build a deck with my F2P account. You simply don't get that many Classic cards anymore unless you pay for them, because all the free packs from Arena are from the latest expansion. I think the only way you get free Classic packs is from Brawls.

Fortunately Tempo Mage mostly runs off of Basic cards and I was able to put together a reasonable one. It still involved filling in the gaps with things like Chillwind Yeti and Acidic Swamp Ooze.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

I found it surprisingly hard to build a deck with my F2P account. You simply don't get that many Classic cards anymore unless you pay for them, because all the free packs from Arena are from the latest expansion. I think the only way you get free Classic packs is from Brawls.

Fortunately Tempo Mage mostly runs off of Basic cards and I was able to put together a reasonable one. It still involved filling in the gaps with things like Chillwind Yeti and Acidic Swamp Ooze.

That's...an interesting observation. I guess it makes sense for F2P players to instinctively spend their gold on the latest expansion instead of Classic packs. If you never buy Classic packs, it doesn't matter if only commons and rares are involved, eh.

Based on my records, you can get Classic cards from monthly ranked rewards at least. Though those are golden, so F2P might be inclined to dust 'em anyhow.

[Rodin]

That's...an interesting observation. I guess it makes sense for F2P players to instinctively spend their gold on the latest expansion instead of Classic packs. If you never buy Classic packs, it doesn't matter if only commons and rares are involved, eh.

Based on my records, you can get Classic cards from monthly ranked rewards at least. Though those are golden, so F2P might be inclined to dust 'em anyhow.

I find it to be an interesting dichotomy, to say the very least. Classic cards are theoretically the most valuable because they will almost never go away, but are also more expensive than the most recently released expansion because you can't Arena for them and get the discount packs.

The most expensive to farm right now are the other two full expansions, as there is no way to just "get" packs from them. You have to buy them at full price or nothing. As a result, my collection of Whispers cards in F2P is pretty much nonexistent - there aren't a terrific number of must-have non-Legendary cards from that set, so I wind up just crafting them with Dust accumulated from Arena.

[PsyBomb]

I actually find myself buying occasional Classic packs as F2P, actually. Just SO MANY critical cards there, and although many are Rre many are Legendary. I still need... at least five... Classic Legendary cards for decks (Thalnos, Alex, Antonidas, Leeroy, and Deathwing), not counting bad ones. Heck, there are still many rares I don't have two of yet (only just pulled my first Soulpriest, and crafted my two Highmanes at the start of this expansion).

[Jaxzan Proditor]

As a pretty much F2P player, I bought classic cards often until I had pretty much all the classic commons. Since I still get packs every week for tavern brawling I have almost every card that could be used in this brawl.

[Zevox]

Really? Inner Fire Priest seems to have most of his setpieces available in this game mode whereas Mage has, in my purview, always had the best basic cards of them all. Fireball, Polymorph, Water Elemental are much better than stuff like Warlock class cards, and you can just jam them into any play-on-curve deck with Yeti on turn 4 and Boulderfist on turn 6. Terrible Basic 5-drops are accounted for because Mage can just Fireblast his Gurubashi Berserker. Mage, to my Rank 18 F2P ass, seemed like the go-to choice, right before I thought of Face Hunter.

Even back in pre-Naxx days, no deck with Boulderfist (much less Gurubashi) was good enough for constructed beyond the low ranks - strong Midrange decks like Shaman and Hunter didn't need it, Control decks certainly had better 6-drops (though without epics and legendaries Control decks basically won't exist in this brawl), and aggro and combo decks didn't want it. Mages having great basics really only matters in Arena, where it means they get offered them frequently.

And Inner Fire Priest isn't even that good in standard now, as far as I can tell (after a quick google search I see it listed as tier 3), despite the huge boons of silence being a near-dead mechanic, Radiant Elemental and Shadow Visions making it easier to use, and Kabal Talonpriest giving Priest another health buff to set up Divine Spirit to be effective on normally lower-health minions. Take away all of the non-classic cards it's currently using and I have no doubt it's still crap, silence or no silence.

[Rodin]

And Inner Fire Priest isn't even that good in standard now, as far as I can tell (after a quick google search I see it listed as tier 3), despite the huge boons of silence being a near-dead mechanic, Radiant Elemental and Shadow Visions making it easier to use, and Kabal Talonpriest giving Priest another health buff to set up Divine Spirit to be effective on normally lower-health minions. Take away all of the non-classic cards it's currently using and I have no doubt it's still crap, silence or no silence.

The casters at the Global Games were actually talking about this yesterday, and it's kinda odd. Silence Priest has been a staple for the last couple weeks and it's had a decent winrate, but for the Americas Spring Playoffs this weekend only 30% of the players are bringing it. And according to the meta snapshot from a quick Googling, Dragon Priest is better but it's just non-existent in tournaments at the moment - I guess possibly because the meta has sped up and the faster speed of Silence Priest is favored over the more control-oriented Dragon Priest? Not really sure why.

And then I watch Kibler going 11-3 in mid-to-high legend with Kazakus Priest and wonder what reality I'm inhabiting.

[Anarion]

The casters at the Global Games were actually talking about this yesterday, and it's kinda odd. Silence Priest has been a staple for the last couple weeks and it's had a decent winrate, but for the Americas Spring Playoffs this weekend only 30% of the players are bringing it. And according to the meta snapshot from a quick Googling, Dragon Priest is better but it's just non-existent in tournaments at the moment - I guess possibly because the meta has sped up and the faster speed of Silence Priest is favored over the more control-oriented Dragon Priest? Not really sure why.

And then I watch Kibler going 11-3 in mid-to-high legend with Kazakus Priest and wonder what reality I'm inhabiting.

The meta is in a weird flux right now. Everything is good against something, and it's going day by day whether people are bringing aggro, midrange, or control on ladder. I'd probably recommend secret Mage or the stupid but frustratingly effective aggro living mana Druid.

[Winthur]

Even back in pre-Naxx days, no deck with Boulderfist (much less Gurubashi) was good enough for constructed beyond the low ranks - strong Midrange decks like Shaman and Hunter didn't need it, Control decks certainly had better 6-drops (though without epics and legendaries Control decks basically won't exist in this brawl), and aggro and combo decks didn't want it. Mages having great basics really only matters in Arena, where it means they get offered them frequently.

Eh, well, I didn't imagine some great supremacy with the mage class, but I can't quite put my finger on how is it totally crap. Double Fireball is eternal, Polymorphing a strong deathrattle (if only because Highmane is in this brawl) is as well, and many of the staples of the top tier decks, to my understanding, have been nerfed; Leeroy, Abusive, Leper, Knife Juggler, Novice Engineer. This game mode is basically ripe for "hey, remember tazdingo?" nostalgia.

I only have a vague understanding of what was good in the early days, but I did read that Face Warrior running Nightblades was a top tier F2P-to-legend deck.

Speaking of which, I am dumb and craft outdated classic cards for my needs. I just got myself two Knife Jugglers. I'm explaining it to myself by figuring that Classic will never go out of date and in the meantime I can figure out which class do I want to main.

Harvest Golems, Scarlet Crusaders and Knife Juggler = teh value at rank 16!1

[Zevox]

Eh, well, I didn't imagine some great supremacy with the mage class, but I can't quite put my finger on how is it totally crap. Double Fireball is eternal, Polymorphing a strong deathrattle (if only because Highmane is in this brawl) is as well, and many of the staples of the top tier decks, to my understanding, have been nerfed; Leeroy, Abusive, Leper, Knife Juggler, Novice Engineer. This game mode is basically ripe for "hey, remember tazdingo?" nostalgia.

You're correct that a lot of cards have been nerfed since then, most of them for aggro decks. Which is all the more reason to expect Midrange decks, like Shaman, Hunter, and Zoolock to run things, since aside from Hunter losing Buzzard, none of them were hit that hard by the nerfs we've had since then. (Novice Engineer nerf was way back in the middle of the beta, and in the long run probably unnecessary - it's highly doubtful that even had it stayed a 1/2, it would have been run that much in the long run.)

And Mage wasn't totally crap in that period, just one of the three weakest classes. It was still better than Paladin and Priest, in that it at least had Freeze Mage, which was effective against non-Warrior decks that weren't super fast, and in the beta period it had aggro Mage. But the former is impossible without higher-rarity cards (and Ice Lance, which is Hall of Fame now), and the latter wasn't effective enough to stick around in the long run and would be hurt by the aforementioned nerfs - though many of its principals eventually resurfaced in Tempo Mage post-GvG.

I only have a vague understanding of what was good in the early days, but I did read that Face Warrior running Nightblades was a top tier F2P-to-legend deck.

Yes for a time, but it was short-lived.

Speaking of which, I am dumb and craft outdated classic cards for my needs. I just got myself two Knife Jugglers. I'm explaining it to myself by figuring that Classic will never go out of date and in the meantime I can figure out which class do I want to main.

Harvest Golems, Scarlet Crusaders and Knife Juggler = teh value at rank 16!1

All were great cards in Classic, no question. Probably best for Zoo, though Harvest Golems saw a ton of play in Control decks in general too.

[Neon Knight]

Even back in pre-Naxx days, no deck with Boulderfist (much less Gurubashi) was good enough for constructed beyond the low ranks - strong Midrange decks like Shaman and Hunter didn't need it, Control decks certainly had better 6-drops (though without epics and legendaries Control decks basically won't exist in this brawl), and aggro and combo decks didn't want it. Mages having great basics really only matters in Arena, where it means they get offered them frequently.

And Inner Fire Priest isn't even that good in standard now, as far as I can tell (after a quick google search I see it listed as tier 3), despite the huge boons of silence being a near-dead mechanic, Radiant Elemental and Shadow Visions making it easier to use, and Kabal Talonpriest giving Priest another health buff to set up Divine Spirit to be effective on normally lower-health minions. Take away all of the non-classic cards it's currently using and I have no doubt it's still crap, silence or no silence.

The casters at the Global Games were actually talking about this yesterday, and it's kinda odd. Silence Priest has been a staple for the last couple weeks and it's had a decent winrate, but for the Americas Spring Playoffs this weekend only 30% of the players are bringing it. And according to the meta snapshot from a quick Googling, Dragon Priest is better but it's just non-existent in tournaments at the moment - I guess possibly because the meta has sped up and the faster speed of Silence Priest is favored over the more control-oriented Dragon Priest? Not really sure why.

And then I watch Kibler going 11-3 in mid-to-high legend with Kazakus Priest and wonder what reality I'm inhabiting.

The Tempostorm Metasnapshot for May 22nd has Purify Priest listed in Tier 2, and it is the top Priest deck in their analysis, beating out Dragon Priest which is clinging onto the bottom of Tier 2. Their explanation cites its lack of polarized matchups on the ladder, and in particular cites its performance against Druid, a class that has no good single target removal and thus no great response to an all in play on a single giant minion. The Dragon Priest description for the week states that Dragon Priest is losing out to Purify Priest because Purify Priest is faster, but also states that it has overall better matchups.

That matches up decently well with my experiences against the deck. It feels a little like Quest Rogue where an extremely powerful draw will have the game end very rapidly on turn 5-6 with relatively little to no opportunities for the opponent to interact. I feel any strategy that offers that sort of quick blowout potential will have a degree of popularity on ladder, even if the overall winrate/perofrmance of the deck is actually slightly less than its contemporaries.

[Psyren]

Loving the current Tavern Brawl (basic/classic only). Using my jank-ass free to play deck (Priest Control) I won 5/7 games

[Gandariel]

Didn't check them all, but this looks like a nice resource for cheap, effective decks for all classes.

https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone..._ungoro_decks/