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  1. - Top - End - #121
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 19: Patches In All The Wrong Places

    Welp, finally went through and dusted all my excess gold cards (all my golds that I have 2 copies of the base), crafted Sylvanas for the month I'll be able to use her plus the bonus dust on rotation.
    Avatar by Elder Tsofu

    Quote Originally Posted by Forrestfire
    Optimization stops being practical and starts being theoretical when your DPR is measured in Tarrasques instead of hit points
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  2. - Top - End - #122
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 19: Patches In All The Wrong Places

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandariel View Post
    Why do the themes "dinosaurs", "wild elemental magic", and "quest" fit together?
    Un'Goro Crater, in World of Warcraft, is a place of primal (elemental) magic, preserved ancient fauna and flora, and Stone Age ruins.

    "Quest" doesn't go with it particularly, but goes with any Hearthstone set--with the basic set most of all, but obviously it wasn't in the basic set.

    If we never get another goblin-themed expansion it will be too soon.

  3. - Top - End - #123
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 19: Patches In All The Wrong Places

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post
    Whispers of the Old Gods (and therefore N'Zoth) heralded the start of the Year of the Kraken, and thus will still be in Standard for Year of the Mammoth. Blackrock Mountain, The Grand Tournament, and League of Explorers are all rotating out.
    It does mean that Museum Curator will be rotating out, sadly. And Sylvanas will be gone too.

    Definitely will need a few new Deathrattles to support it.

    Also, are the Arena changes coming with the nerfs patch, or are they coming with the expansion?

  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 19: Patches In All The Wrong Places

    Just got the update. Apparently the only changes for now were the nerfs to Small Time Buccaneer (health dropped to 1) and Spirit Claws (mana cost upped to 2). (<partially wrong)

    Sylvanas and Ragnaros still playable in standard.

    Started a new arena run right before the update so don't know for sure, but I think it's still the same as before for now. (<wrong!)
    Last edited by thirsting; 2017-02-28 at 02:16 PM.
    Well that was awkward.

  5. - Top - End - #125
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 19: Patches In All The Wrong Places

    Quote Originally Posted by thirsting View Post
    Just got the update. Apparently the only changes for now were the nerfs to Small Time Buccaneer (health dropped to 1) and Spirit Claws (mana cost upped to 2).

    Sylvanas and Ragnaros still playable in standard.

    Started a new arena run right before the update so don't know for sure, but I think it's still the same as before for now.
    Arena updates should have come in the patch.

    The rank floors should also have come in the patch.
    Last edited by Joran; 2017-02-28 at 01:44 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #126
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 19: Patches In All The Wrong Places

    Ahh, yes. Oops. Should have read the patch notes first before posting.
    Well that was awkward.

  7. - Top - End - #127
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 19: Patches In All The Wrong Places

    Bit more Un'Goro information:

    The other four Adapt effects were revealed. They are +1/+1, Poison, +3 Health, and Stealth until your next turn.

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    4 mana 5/4 Rare Neutral Beast. Battlecry: Adapt your Murlocs. Should actual Murloc decks become a thing, this might see play. I personally hope so, Murloc Rush is one of the more entertaining aggro decks.


    Also confirmed that there will be two Legendary cards per class (ugh), one minion and one Quest.
    Last edited by PsyBomb; 2017-02-28 at 02:05 PM.
    Avatar by Elder Tsofu

    Quote Originally Posted by Forrestfire
    Optimization stops being practical and starts being theoretical when your DPR is measured in Tarrasques instead of hit points
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  8. - Top - End - #128
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 19: Patches In All The Wrong Places

    Plus 3 health is pretty good. Generally for adapt to be great 3 of the out comes must result in a great out come (that is about 71% great out come, 4 is about 83% great out come).

    Long neck possibilities are 8/4 (not that good), 5/4 with divine shield (great), 5/7 (good but probably not good enough), 5/4 death rattle summon two 1/1 (don't think it is good enough), 5/4 with poison (better with high health but pretty good still), 5/4 taunt (terrible unless you die otherwise), 5/4 with windfury (depends heavily on board state but doesn't seem good enough), stealth (meh), 6/5 (bad), 5/4 with shroud (probably bad). Over all, I don't think long neck will be consistently good enough to see play after initial experiments with it.
    Last edited by Hamste; 2017-02-28 at 02:33 PM.
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  9. - Top - End - #129
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 19: Patches In All The Wrong Places

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamste View Post
    Plus 3 health is pretty good. Generally for adapt to be great 3 of the out comes must result in a great out come (that is about 71% great out come, 4 is about 83% great out come).

    Long neck possibilities are 8/4 (not that good), 5/4 with divine shield (great), 5/7 (good but probably not good enough), 5/4 death rattle summon two 1/1 (don't think it is good enough), 5/4 with poison (better with high health but pretty good still), 5/4 taunt (terrible unless you die otherwise), 5/4 with windfury (depends heavily on board state but doesn't seem good enough), stealth (meh), 6/5 (bad), 5/4 with shroud (probably bad). Over all, I don't think long neck will be consistently good enough to see play after initial experiments with it.
    Many of them are going to depend on board and game state. The Deathrattle is good if you anticipate a board clear, Shroud is good if your opponent has been leaning on targeted removal, etc. I'm more bullish on this one than most, but I do agree that it's going to take experimentation... and also seeing what the other 130 cards are going to look like.
    Avatar by Elder Tsofu

    Quote Originally Posted by Forrestfire
    Optimization stops being practical and starts being theoretical when your DPR is measured in Tarrasques instead of hit points
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  10. - Top - End - #130
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 19: Patches In All The Wrong Places

    I think Longneck will be good, but not a staple except for in a possible Beast Druid if that becomes a thing.
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  11. - Top - End - #131
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 19: Patches In All The Wrong Places

    Quote Originally Posted by PsyBomb View Post
    Also confirmed that there will be two Legendary cards per class (ugh), one minion and one Quest.
    Ugh indeed. I suppose I'm lucky that I'll be getting the full (non-gold) dust refund from the Hall of Fame cycle. So I won't need too much additional dust.
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  12. - Top - End - #132
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 19: Patches In All The Wrong Places

    Quote Originally Posted by Haruspex_Pariah View Post
    Ugh indeed. I suppose I'm lucky that I'll be getting the full (non-gold) dust refund from the Hall of Fame cycle. So I won't need too much additional dust.
    I am as well, plus anticipating about 40 packs and around 1000 banked dust along with it. SHOULD put me on track
    Avatar by Elder Tsofu

    Quote Originally Posted by Forrestfire
    Optimization stops being practical and starts being theoretical when your DPR is measured in Tarrasques instead of hit points
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  13. - Top - End - #133
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 19: Patches In All The Wrong Places

    What worries me about Adapt is that it sounds like the pool is a standard pool. Applying those to a 5 mana 5/4 isn't bad, but the odds of there being some smaller minion that just goes bonkers with it is exceedingly high. Small Time Buc 2: Electric Boogaloo.


    New Arena is...interesting. I already ran into Ranked Hunter (coin Quickshot into Quickshot into Animal Companion into Houndmaster), and I suspect such craziness will be more common now with additional spells and a smaller pool.
    Last edited by Rodin; 2017-02-28 at 10:06 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #134
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 19: Patches In All The Wrong Places

    I actually noticed the other day that I have two golden Azure Drakes, so I'll be getting a nice big chunk of dust for the turnover.

    I'm also still getting offered GVG cards in Arena, so not sure what, if anything, has changed there.
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  15. - Top - End - #135
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 19: Patches In All The Wrong Places

    Quote Originally Posted by Destro_Yersul View Post
    I actually noticed the other day that I have two golden Azure Drakes, so I'll be getting a nice big chunk of dust for the turnover.

    I'm also still getting offered GVG cards in Arena, so not sure what, if anything, has changed there.
    Are you playing on mobile? Mine only JUST updated and my last couple of Arena matches would have been... implausible... under old draft.
    Avatar by Elder Tsofu

    Quote Originally Posted by Forrestfire
    Optimization stops being practical and starts being theoretical when your DPR is measured in Tarrasques instead of hit points
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  16. - Top - End - #136
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 19: Patches In All The Wrong Places

    No, PC. Figured it out, though. Overwatch was trying to update, so Hearthstone hadn't started its update.

    EDIT: Holy crap there's a lot of rares and epics in arena now. Also gold cards for some reason.
    Last edited by Destro_Yersul; 2017-03-01 at 01:13 AM.
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  17. - Top - End - #137
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 19: Patches In All The Wrong Places

    Quote Originally Posted by PsyBomb View Post
    Are you playing on mobile? Mine only JUST updated and my last couple of Arena matches would have been... implausible... under old draft.
    Speaking of, how does it work if you have a client that hasn't updated with regards to card nerfs?

    What I mean is I was playing on my phone earlier today and ran into a 2 health buccanneer. I figured this was because my app hadn't downloaded, but how would it work if I was playing against someone who had updated? Do they see 1 health and I see 2? Or does being on an old version of the app put me in a pool with only other players on that same version?

    Quote Originally Posted by Destro_Yersul View Post
    No, PC. Figured it out, though. Overwatch was trying to update, so Hearthstone hadn't started its update.

    EDIT: Holy crap there's a lot of rares and epics in arena now. Also gold cards for some reason.
    In Arena cards you own in gold are now gold in arena. If you have 1 gold card, the first one you draft is gold. If you have 2 gold cards, every version of that card you draft is gold.
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  18. - Top - End - #138
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 19: Patches In All The Wrong Places

    Gah. I'd like an option to turn off gold card visuals, as in every card shows as a normal to those who so choose.
    Well that was awkward.

  19. - Top - End - #139
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 19: Patches In All The Wrong Places

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    Speaking of, how does it work if you have a client that hasn't updated with regards to card nerfs?

    What I mean is I was playing on my phone earlier today and ran into a 2 health buccanneer. I figured this was because my app hadn't downloaded, but how would it work if I was playing against someone who had updated? Do they see 1 health and I see 2? Or does being on an old version of the app put me in a pool with only other players on that same version?
    It's that last one. At some point later this week the Hearthstone servers will stop accepting connections from the 7.0 client, at which point the last few stragglers will be forced to update to 7.1 before they can play again. Until then, 7.0 clients will only be matched against other 7.0 clients.
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  20. - Top - End - #140
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 19: Patches In All The Wrong Places

    Quote Originally Posted by thirsting View Post
    Gah. I'd like an option to turn off gold card visuals, as in every card shows as a normal to those who so choose.
    I wouldn't get hopes up. I've come to realize that there's always something in development, and even relatively minor tweaks can take a long time assuming it's even in the pipeline.
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  21. - Top - End - #141
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 19: Patches In All The Wrong Places

    That's real unlikely. It wouldn't benefit Blizzard in any way to change "you should spend more dust on gold cards so you can show off that you have these fancy cards" to "you should spend more dust on gold cards so you can show off that you have these fancy cards to anyone who hasn't opted out of seeing them."

  22. - Top - End - #142
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 19: Patches In All The Wrong Places

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    What worries me about Adapt is that it sounds like the pool is a standard pool. Applying those to a 5 mana 5/4 isn't bad, but the odds of there being some smaller minion that just goes bonkers with it is exceedingly high. Small Time Buc 2: Electric Boogaloo.
    I don't see it getting that bad. For one, most of the effects revealed correspond to a 1-mana card that already exists (Blessing of Might, Living Roots, Stealth until your next turn).

    That said, the leaked dino that Adapts murlocs could very well make them go bonkers.
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  23. - Top - End - #143
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 19: Patches In All The Wrong Places

    The game got really stale and boring to me. There are only a few valid tactics for ranked games. Good thing the arena is as fun as it always was. I wish I could stop playing the game, but the vision of leaving all precious hours and dollars I have invested into it drives me crazy...

  24. - Top - End - #144
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 19: Patches In All The Wrong Places

    Quote Originally Posted by Miller777 View Post
    The game got really stale and boring to me. There are only a few valid tactics for ranked games. Good thing the arena is as fun as it always was. I wish I could stop playing the game, but the vision of leaving all precious hours and dollars I have invested into it drives me crazy...
    It's funny. The devs actually mentioned this in their dev video thing before the Un'Goro announcement. I've heard many people claim the game is stale, and I won't disagree on that, but there's no clear idea of what specifically would solve that issue.

    Is it a question of not enough game modes? Too slow release schedule? Expansion sets need to be bigger? Or something less obvious? How many viable decks does the game need to stay fresh for four months? Because eventually, even if there are a dozen viable decks people will naturally gravitate to the one which has a 1.5% higher win rate than the others. The ability for people to share decks online, whether through guide sites or even just high level players streaming their games, contributes to the lack of variety. Why slog through an experimental deck building process when you can just crib Reynad's notes?

    I am curious, for those who play other digital CCGs, what the experience is with those. Is there this feeling of the meta establishing itself quickly and then being bored to death waiting for the next release? Or do those games remain fresh throughout?

    Also, you can leave anytime and then come back anytime. Unless your goal is to qualify for tournaments or something, there's nothing to lose. A break might actually be good. I know I took one some time before Whispers of the Old Gods.
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  25. - Top - End - #145
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 19: Patches In All The Wrong Places

    Quote Originally Posted by thirsting View Post
    Gah. I'd like an option to turn off gold card visuals, as in every card shows as a normal to those who so choose.
    The option to de-golden your arena deck after draft will be an option in a future patch:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone...sl0/?context=3

    I'm not sure if they'll ever de-golden or do a "no animations" mode for Hearthstone, because one of the main appeals of Hearthstone is the great UI.
    Last edited by Joran; 2017-03-01 at 10:47 AM.

  26. - Top - End - #146
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 19: Patches In All The Wrong Places

    I think the variance has increased greatly with the ARena patch. I've had a couple drafts that were basically old Arena decks, thanks to the spells being offered being crap.

    And then there's my current Priest deck, which managed to get a Dragon sub-theme going and has the following AoE:

    1x Excavated Evil
    2x Holy Nova
    3x Dragonfire Potion
    1x Chillmaw


    And I also passed up the Murloc that AoEs.

    So um...yeah. Blowouts at low wins are going to be much more common now, I think. And high win Arena is going to be insane.

  27. - Top - End - #147
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 19: Patches In All The Wrong Places

    I tested an arena draft last night, grabbed Warrior, was offered 0 weapons, and no particularly useful spells (wound up with Mortal Strike and Cleave in the deck). Went 1-3, I was very disappointed.
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  28. - Top - End - #148
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 19: Patches In All The Wrong Places

    Quote Originally Posted by Haruspex_Pariah View Post
    It's funny. The devs actually mentioned this in their dev video thing before the Un'Goro announcement. I've heard many people claim the game is stale, and I won't disagree on that, but there's no clear idea of what specifically would solve that issue.
    Comparing it to the other CCG I've played extensively (Magic: The Gathering), I feel one of Hearthstone's big issues is the lack of persistent board state. With the exception of Taunt minions, the game basically devolves into maintaining board presence in an environment where most things survive one round at most. There's no ability to save a creature at the expense of your health by simply not blocking, and thus persistent effects you might build a deck around are much less reliable. In M:tG big creatures that don't have immediate effects are still playable, as they're immune to direct creature attacks and if you've had enough threats to consume removal spells in advance they'll stay around for a while.

    The end result of that is that it's harder to plan several turns ahead in Hearthstone, making the game largely one of "what's the best way I can preserve my current advantage" with a small side of "what threat is his deck probably running." But, with a few exceptions, getting into a good board position NOW is better, since it forces your opponent to play catch up.

    That, combined with the lack of interrupting actions you can control, means the game often feels rather same-y. Plus the fact that EVERY type of deck goes for board control in some manner means that, even if you're playing something weird, it'll come down to having taunt minions and/or board dominance anyway. There aren't enough cards that make you or your opponent make meaningful decisions, and there's not enough interaction between the two of you. Finally, there's not enough interaction in your OWN decks, with only a few combos doing anything fun other than +damage.

    Heck, you don't even have the choice between tapping a creature for an effect and using it offensively or defensively.

    Frankly, I'm not sure Hearthstone's core design is robust enough to have a meta that doesn't eventually feel stale without adding a bit of complexity somewhere.
    Last edited by Djinn_in_Tonic; 2017-03-01 at 12:24 PM.

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  29. - Top - End - #149
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 19: Patches In All The Wrong Places

    @djinn-in-tonic:

    I agree with most of what you said:

    Hearthstone minions are just too vulnerable and easy to kill:
    That's why every minion with an "once per turn" effect is super powerful, to the point that it would win you the game on its own if you let it up for two or three turns.

    Sadly, the way minions attack is one of the core parts of the game and can't really be touched.

    The only way to fix it would be to do something like **massively** decrease the Attack of every minion: so that two "even" minions take 2-3 turns to even kill each other.

    This would make it so that minions are sorta guaranteed to stick around more, and in turn add complexity to the game. (Of course, once-per-turn effect would have to be scaled down, and probably the starting Health of heroes too).

    Anyways, this is such a massive change I don't think it could really happen (like, most minions in the game would have 0 or 1 Attack, and 4/12 would be Deathwing level instead of Ysera level)

    With regards to tapping, it's just gonna happen eventually. I give it one year before they introduce something like that (either "attack a friendly minion => special effect" or "if this minion didn't attack this turn, ...")
    Last edited by Gandariel; 2017-03-01 at 12:42 PM.

  30. - Top - End - #150
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 19: Patches In All The Wrong Places

    Kinda sad that this brawl doesn't progress class-win quests. It even says 'Mage' under Kazakus.

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