Vanpire the masquerade melee fighting build

[Evy]

Okay so im starting up on a campaign and i was tasked with creating a melee fighting brujah character for reasons that it fits the group and i kinda wanted to play one haha. So the max points we can have is 5, so the exp points go as 15 free-be point and 426 exp points to spend. Now i want to focus on stuff like huge size (merit) and strength, brawl (dirty tricks), melee (short swords), firearms (explosives), potence and clerityas the primary. As the secondary stats stuff like streetwise, intimidate, protean (claws), auspex (auras), obfuscate (invisi kinda quick gettaway), generation (max gen we can have is generation 8 so thats where i want to be at) also i want King of the Hill combo discipline... He has no resources or anything as the group has a money guy. So what else should i put points in or something ? Like any disciplines i should know about or combo disciplines or anything ?

[Thrawn4]

426 EXP??????
What kind of campaign is this suppossed to be?

Anyway, you might want to take Fortitude to be able to take more hits.
Contacts for arms dealers.

[Anderlith]

Make room for a few dots of Celerity. He who punches first hard enough punches last.

[Mr Blobby]

Again, 426 starting XP?!

1/ Backgrounds.
- Max your Generation. This'll allow you to increase your blood spend per turn.
- Consider some Resources. So you can buy kit straight off.

2/ Disciplines.
- Max Celerity and Potence. The former will allow you to hit first, the latter to hit harder.
- If possible, take Fortitude.*
- If you could get to Protean 2, that would be lovely!*

3/ Attributes.
- Obviously, take Strength. But also remember Dexterity [for dodging rolls], Stamina [Soak], Perception [to spot threats early and Wits [to have a good Initiative score].

4/ Abilities.
- Remember Unarmed, Dodge, Athletics, Awareness, Alertness and perhaps a little of Firearms, Stealth, Intimidation and Animal Ken too.**
- A good Crafts skill would allow the PC to make custom-made weapons / armour.

5/ Specialties
- Look into ones which are detailed enough to be accepted, but not so specialised that they'll rarely be used.*

6/ Merits/Flaws.
- Look at possibles such as 'Inoffensive to Animals', 'Bruiser', etc. Ones which would either reduce the amount of things attacking you or add bonuses in combat.*

7/ Other Stats
- Max your Courage and have a high Willpower.

* ST dependent.
** Dependent on version of VtM being used.

This advice is simply to make them good for melee / unarmed grunt, nothing more. I would advise you to make them a more flexible than this, such as giving them some social / mental skills too. I would also *highly* advise you to talk to your ST about this, just to make sure you learn before creation such things as House Rules and whether the chronicle is actually going to have much combat in it...

[LibraryOgre]

A few other thoughts:

Grapple Builds can get kinda stupid in VtM, since you wind up Rolling Str+Brawl for attacks and damage; I did one of those in Werewolf, but Potence's Automatic Successes makes it even more stupidly powerful. Combine a grapple that almost no one can escape with a chance to bite.

Instead of Short Swords, consider knives. I think it was the player's guide that let you make two attacks with a knife for every action, and when you fold in Celerity, you wind up as a cuisinart. One of my favorite stories involved my blood-trash Brujah taking down a Lupine more or less single-handedly (thanks to a conveniently created silver knife from a Thaumauturgist).

And Willpower. Willpower is cheap with Freebie points and you should have a lot of it.

[Evy]

426 EXP??????
What kind of campaign is this suppossed to be?

Anyway, you might want to take Fortitude to be able to take more hits.
Contacts for arms dealers.

It's a campaign my group ran awhile back that we all decided to bring back... I have fortitude 3 dots i forgot to mention that. Would there be anything else i should go for or look into?

[Evy]

A few other thoughts:

Grapple Builds can get kinda stupid in VtM, since you wind up Rolling Str+Brawl for attacks and damage; I did one of those in Werewolf, but Potence's Automatic Successes makes it even more stupidly powerful. Combine a grapple that almost no one can escape with a chance to bite.

Instead of Short Swords, consider knives. I think it was the player's guide that let you make two attacks with a knife for every action, and when you fold in Celerity, you wind up as a cuisinart. One of my favorite stories involved my blood-trash Brujah taking down a Lupine more or less single-handedly (thanks to a conveniently created silver knife from a Thaumauturgist).

And Willpower. Willpower is cheap with Freebie points and you should have a lot of it.

Again, 426 starting XP?!

1/ Backgrounds.
- Max your Generation. This'll allow you to increase your blood spend per turn.
- Consider some Resources. So you can buy kit straight off.

2/ Disciplines.
- Max Celerity and Potence. The former will allow you to hit first, the latter to hit harder.
- If possible, take Fortitude.*
- If you could get to Protean 2, that would be lovely!*

3/ Attributes.
- Obviously, take Strength. But also remember Dexterity [for dodging rolls], Stamina [Soak], Perception [to spot threats early and Wits [to have a good Initiative score].

4/ Abilities.
- Remember Unarmed, Dodge, Athletics, Awareness, Alertness and perhaps a little of Firearms, Stealth, Intimidation and Animal Ken too.**
- A good Crafts skill would allow the PC to make custom-made weapons / armour.

5/ Specialties
- Look into ones which are detailed enough to be accepted, but not so specialised that they'll rarely be used.*

6/ Merits/Flaws.
- Look at possibles such as 'Inoffensive to Animals', 'Bruiser', etc. Ones which would either reduce the amount of things attacking you or add bonuses in combat.*

7/ Other Stats
- Max your Courage and have a high Willpower.

* ST dependent.
** Dependent on version of VtM being used.

This advice is simply to make them good for melee / unarmed grunt, nothing more. I would advise you to make them a more flexible than this, such as giving them some social / mental skills too. I would also *highly* advise you to talk to your ST about this, just to make sure you learn before creation such things as House Rules and whether the chronicle is actually going to have much combat in it...

Sorry for double posting!!! Using phone ATM. All this is duely noted thanks guys i just wasnt sure on if there was anything else i should specificly look into.
Grappling seems pretty cool also i might have to see whats up with that.

[comicshorse]

There's a Combo Potence/Celerity power that makes your fists burst into flames (but doesn't hurt you). It was in one of the Brujah clanbooks but I don't own it anymore so I'm not sure of the details (And I'd definitely ask your ST first )

EDIT
Actually I do still own it.
Brujah Clanbook ; 'Burning Wrath', p31
Requires Celerity and Potence of 3. Must spend a Blood Point each turn to maintain the power. Causes all Brawling attacks to do Aggravated Damage. Anybody whose hit by the attack must make a Willpower roll (6) or flee in terror

[fishyfishyfishy]

Attacks are made with Dexterity in Masquerade. Strength is just used for damage. You can arguably get by with only a low Strength if you have Potence and high Dexterity. Actually landing an attack is more important, and extra successes contribute to damage anyway.

[LibraryOgre]

Attacks are made with Dexterity in Masquerade. Strength is just used for damage. You can arguably get by with only a low Strength if you have Potence and high Dexterity. Actually landing an attack is more important, and extra successes contribute to damage anyway.

Not if you're grappling. Grappling attacks are made with Str+Brawl. Since Potence adds bonus successes, you get nasty quickly. A Clinch will let the two of you trade damage back and forth, a Hold will keep them still for others to maul them (or you to bite them), and a Tackle can knock them down... all are Strength+Brawl.

[Ignimortis]

Not if you're grappling. Grappling attacks are made with Str+Brawl. Since Potence adds bonus successes, you get nasty quickly. A Clinch will let the two of you trade damage back and forth, a Hold will keep them still for others to maul them (or you to bite them), and a Tackle can knock them down... all are Strength+Brawl.

If we're talking V20, then first you gotta hit the grapple, and that's Dexterity+Brawl. Holding it and inflicting damage is Strength-dependent, yeah.

Back to the topic:

I second (third?) the "426 starting exp?!" gasps. That should be enough for everything you want and even more. I have like 140 EXP on my Brujah and my ST nerfed Celerity (well, he removed all the extra actions, but that mostly hurts Celerity) and I can still sword-murder my way like five guys with AK-74s.

Take the 8th generation. It's worth far more than anything else. Do not spend freebie points on stats or dots you can get with EXP (the exception being willpower - take 10, it's cheap and incredibly useful) - go for merits and backgrounds, those are far harder to earn. Try Magic Resistant if you expect blood sorcery to play a role, for instance.
The "eye of the storm" nature is basically "free willpower whenever I get involved in a fight or something else violent".
Good flaws that free up some points and rarely come up are Infertile Blood (can't sire childer, can still ghoul and do all the other things) and Shy (you're not the talker anyway).
Let's say you start with the standard stuff like 4/3/3 for physical and whatever you want for other stats. Getting physical stats to 5 will take 72 exp.
If I were you, I'd assign secondary to mental and tertiary to social, and respectively 3/2/3 for Perception/Intelligence/Wits, 3/1/2 for Charisma/Manipulation/Appearance, but those aren't as important.
Maxing out disciplines you want (Potence/Celerity/Fortitude, Protean 2, possibly Auspex to ignore people trying to sneak about (trust me, you'll hate those), possibly 1-2 dots of Obfuscate (get the drop, activate Feral Claws, activate Celerity, unload 6 actions into someone, achieve overkill), starting with the common 1/1/1 Celerity/Potence/Presence - 50 for Celerity, 50 for Potence, 5 for Presence (Dread Gaze is just too good to pass), 80 for Fortitude, 17 for Protean. That's 269 EXP so far.

If you start with 3 dots of Brawl/Athletics (or Dodge for earlier editions)/Melee/Firearms, maxing those out will take 56 more experience. 325.
You've got a hundred EXP to round your character out - max out Virtues (courage/self-control are key - you can tear people apart in Frenzy like nobody's business, conscience is secondary but Humanity isn't, 4 Con is a good thing), pick up some knowledges, maybe 2-3 dots of Auspex (17-31 exp), raise your other stats (Wits also plays a role in initiative).

Some Combo Disciplines to consider - Leaps and Bounds (Pot2/Cel2, multiplies your jumps by the factor of your lowest - either Celerity or Potence. Since you'll have 5 in both, that means you can leap upwards for about 2*15*5=150 feet. Yes, 150. That's a Masquerade breaker, but when you can grap a helicopter out of the air and rip off its' rotor, that doesn't mean much. 12 exp to learn.
Could be useful to grab Iron Heart (and if you take the Iron Will merit+10 willpower with it, every single bloodsucker who thinks Dominate's the best thing since canned blood, will suffer). 18 exp, but requires Potence 3/Presence 3, so it'll cost 28 from your leftover EXP.

[LibraryOgre]

If we're talking V20, then first you gotta hit the grapple, and that's Dexterity+Brawl. Holding it and inflicting damage is Strength-dependent, yeah.

Do you have a reference for that? I'm looking at V20 right now, and it's in accordance with earlier editions. Clinch and Hold are in 276, and Tackle is on 277; none of them mention needing Dexterity to make the hit (though Tackle requires it to keep your feet).

[fishyfishyfishy]

Do you have a reference for that? I'm looking at V20 right now, and it's in accordance with earlier editions. Clinch and Hold are in 276, and Tackle is on 277; none of them mention needing Dexterity to make the hit (though Tackle requires it to keep your feet).

272 and 273 says that you use Dexterity + Brawl to attack. Clinch and Hold say "on a successful attack roll" implying that you must use Dex to land the attack, and the follow up resisted roll uses Strength + Brawl as per the maneuver description. I can see how it is open to interpretation due to the language and formatting used.

For a tackle I see no other way to interpret it than Strength + Brawl, which lends credence to your argument.

The table on 279 further backs you up.

[LibraryOgre]

272 and 273 says that you use Dexterity + Brawl to attack. Clinch and Hold say "on a successful attack roll" implying that you must use Dex to land the attack, and the follow up resisted roll uses Strength + Brawl as per the maneuver description. I can see how it is open to interpretation due to the language and formatting used.

For a tackle I see no other way to interpret it than Strength + Brawl, which lends credence to your argument.

The table on 279 further backs you up.

Yeah, but given that Clinch and Hold are put on the same level of technique as Strike, Kick, and Weapon Strike, and there's no explicit mention of needing to use a Dexterity attack to hit before you're allowed to do other manuevers, I'm inclined to think the reference on 272/3 is an oversimplification... otherwise, you can make the argument that, in order to make a Kick, you have to make a Dex+Brawl attack, then you're allowed to roll Dex+Brawl again to see if you kicked successfully, since you're saying the Clinch manuever requires Dex+Brawl to allow the Str+Brawl manuever to take place.

[Thrawn4]

I have like 140 EXP on my Brujah and my ST nerfed Celerity (well, he removed all the extra actions, but that mostly hurts Celerity) and I can still sword-murder my way like five guys with AK-74s.

Care to elaborate? Always looking for new ways to nerf celerity...

[Ignimortis]

Care to elaborate? Always looking for new ways to nerf celerity...

I don't know why, really. It's fine as it it, maybe a little less bonus actions with about 3 at 5 dots (so 1-0-1-0-1 for each dot?) if you're so iffy about that. Fortitude might need a slight buff, but Celerity is pretty much OK. If you're in the same room as the Celerity user and you can't catch up to him - you've made all the mistakes you shouldn't have made. It's very much like higher-level D&D - if you build for it, HP damage is cool, but having other, indirect tools usually decides who's on top, because while you can torpor the snotty Ventrue so fast he can't react, he can have you regretting it in a few phone calls. And he has a seven-figure bank account while you're pillaging your feeding victims, or, if you're lucky, have a small gang who make more trouble than profit.

Anyway, the nerf is as follows:
Celerity no longer grants extra actions. Celerity still grants extra dice to all Dex-related rolls. You can activate Celerity with one blood point to gain a burst of speed, which is your base speed modified by Celerity, x2, for one scene out of combat or one round in combat. You can also activate Celerity with one blood point to gain (Celerity rating) dodge/parry/block dice (at your discretion at the time of activation) which are applied against all incoming attacks until your next turn.

As such, having 4 Celerity means I can dodge bullets pretty well and even if mortals can hit me, it's usually a body shot and it lacks punch. No murder blenders anymore, though - I miss being able to disembowel five people in three seconds.

[Thrawn4]

I don't know why, really.
[...]
No murder blenders anymore, though - I miss being able to disembowel five people in three seconds.

I think you answered your question there ;-)
And thanks.

@OP: Celerity is your most powerful combat asset.

[Braininthejar2]

Hmm, I remember a fellow player telling me of another player's Brujah, who used obfuscate to make people overlook the fact that she kept carrying a machine gun strapped across her back.

Either way, obfuscate is another good way to ensure hitting first (and in a system with wound penalties, hitting first very often means hitting last)

[Loki Laufeyson]

These combat tips are all basic - get the physical disciplines. Now, to truly be a monster, you should also consider buying:

Presence 5 - Majesty - is perfect for all possible combat situations.
Obfuscate - the more you get, the harder it will be to be detected. If you can't be detected you *always* win

Now, here are some cheap ways to buff your soak(which is very important if you are a fighter):
Serpentis 3 - Skin of the Adder, lets you soak claws and bite attacks with Stamina
Combo discipline with Mortis 2 - Effigy of the Sculpted Tomb - Roll Stamina+Medicine, add success to Strength OR Stamina

Check Thaumaturgy Counterspell, it's very effective against all kinds of blood magic.

Now, to get to the truly outrageous things, find a Bane and get possessed. This is a bit out of the scope of pure Vampire, but this can provide Fomori powers(additional damage and soak dice, fire immunity, other fun stuff too), and access to some Werewolf powers/gifts too. There is a Werewolf gift that gives you 10 ( potentially 20) to initiative. If you have this and Obfuscate, then you pretty much win.

[Mr Blobby]

But doesn't getting possessed by a Bane also lead to every Gaian Garou [and possibly Fera too] doing their utmost to rip your undead head from the rest of body?

[Loki Laufeyson]

You're already a vampire, which is bad enough :P

There is a fomori power to hide your taint and appear as normal or even as a wyld creature on their radar. Also Obfuscate hides you from them if it's higher than their rank.

The good thing is that if you get possessed, the possessing Bane can do nothing but watch while you pump it for power :D

For extra cheese you can have True Faith - not that it's not possible, but the justification and the roleplay will be quite weird.

But aside from that, just get Serpentis and Mortis 2 and you'll tank even a Werewolf attack and you have a decent shot at killing them if you have backup (and cocaine - I don't remember which book was it, but there were rules that being drugged with cocaine increases your Celerity level +1).

Additionally if you drink high-potency Werewolf blood and use 1 point, your Potence and Celerity increase by +3 for the next round .. this is monstrous, pun intended.

Find a pureblood werewolf and pump him for blood. The drawack is that your Frenzy difficulty will be 10, but what the heck.

At normal player generation you can have a scenelong :
Strenght: 5 strength + 1 blood for scenelong increase + 5 strenght(mortis) + 5 potence +3 potence from werewolf blood = 11 dice + 8 automatic success on strength
Celerity: Discipline level 5 +1 from cocaine + 3 from werewolf blood = 9 Celerity actions
Stamina: 5 stamina + 1 blood for scenelong increase + 5 stamina(mortis) + 5 fortitude + 5 armor = 21 dice.

If you find a Sorcerer, he can give you an amulet for additional 3 success on strenght rolls and 5 soak ( all examples from the book), but that's just a bonus :D

[Ignimortis]

These combat tips are all basic - get the physical disciplines. Now, to truly be a monster, you should also consider buying:

Presence 5 - Majesty - is perfect for all possible combat situations.
Obfuscate - the more you get, the harder it will be to be detected. If you can't be detected you *always* win

Now, here are some cheap ways to buff your soak(which is very important if you are a fighter):
Serpentis 3 - Skin of the Adder, lets you soak claws and bite attacks with Stamina
Combo discipline with Mortis 2 - Effigy of the Sculpted Tomb - Roll Stamina+Medicine, add success to Strength OR Stamina

Check Thaumaturgy Counterspell, it's very effective against all kinds of blood magic.

Now, to get to the truly outrageous things, find a Bane and get possessed. This is a bit out of the scope of pure Vampire, but this can provide Fomori powers(additional damage and soak dice, fire immunity, other fun stuff too), and access to some Werewolf powers/gifts too. There is a Werewolf gift that gives you 10 ( potentially 20) to initiative. If you have this and Obfuscate, then you pretty much win.

This is so cheesy it's nothing but holes, good sir! I don't think there's an ST alive who will let the latter half of that post go into a (somewhat) serious campaign.
Also, even with 426 exp the OP would be running out of it by the time he's done with Obfuscate.
Thaumaturgical Countermagic has a severe flaw - you gain Clan Enmity from all the Tremere if you learn it as a non-Tremere. While it might be worthwhile, it might also be quite a nuisance.
Mortis is, quite simply, almost extinct. I think Harbingers of Skulls are unlikely to teach it to someone, and spontaneously developing it doesn't seem likely.
Serpentis is also quite jealously treasured by the Followers of Set. While they might teach you, with the Settites the price is always larger than whatever you gain...

But other than the IC ramifications, this is good advice from a TO standpoint. Just...be aware that it can be turned against you quickly most of the time.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Well yes, if you acquire even one of these powers would be problematic, but it's just a list of the options which can make one a tougher opponent.

I wouldn't stick a Bane in my Vampire for all the powers it can give, but there are players who aren't against dark deals and soul selling and the likes.

ALso being addicted to werewolf blood and cocaine has its terrible repercussions, being a lowly junkie.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Most of all I would recommend Fortitude and simple armor - having the biggest soak and being unkillable works magic for the self-confidence, and you don't really need anything bar that.