Tower of God: Turtles Everywhere

[Zalabim]

Well, I was wrong about Koon being fallible. I should have known.

If this big breeder guy has the power to manipulate the world to this extent, I don't understand why he doesn't just kill his enemies.

Maybe he doesn't? He borrowed power from Young Zahard to seal the door, and Baam blew that away. He probably doesn't stand a chance in a direct confrontation with Khun's group, and certainly can't stand up to Baam. He probably needed to lull them into overconfidence and let them make a mistake in order to get in a cheap shot with one of his monsters.

Also, I propose that the synonyms to be used are "Big:Great:Monstrous" and "Breeder:Farmer:Rancher" and thus this guy is a Monster Rancher.

[Olinser]

There could be, but it's a lot harder to justify all the other crappy stuff the families have done.

Why would we need to justify it? They don't have the power to change anything.

They're just petty tyrants ruling their little kingdoms in the Tower, no justification needed.

[JavaScribe]

They're just petty tyrants ruling their little kingdoms in the Tower, no justification needed.

But what's the point? The tower is so massive that there are entire civilizations that have never even heard of Zahard. Between that and the sheer feats we've seen from the Workshop, there should be no shortage on resources if they just want to make sure they get to eat nice food every day and live in a big house. Yet they've designed a society that's unpleasant for just about everyone, even many of their own. The only reasons I can think of are ego and that "fear" Baam discussed with his inner demon.

[JavaScribe]

The latest.

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Big Breeder is no longer pretending to follow the rules.

[JavaScribe]

The latest.

This guy is pretty sadistic.

[Kantaki]

This guy is pretty sadistic.

That... might be the understatement of the year.

[Rynjin]

Can someone give me a chapter number on the conclusion of the Koon/Rachel coin toss challenge thing? I've been trying to get back to Tower of God but can't find the right chapter. The chapters being posted in one enormous chunk makes it a bit harder to find your place once you've lost it.

[Lethologica]

Can someone give me a chapter number on the conclusion of the Koon/Rachel coin toss challenge thing? I've been trying to get back to Tower of God but can't find the right chapter. The chapters being posted in one enormous chunk makes it a bit harder to find your place once you've lost it.

The conclusion is in chapter 186 of season 2.

[JavaScribe]

The latest.

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Sounds like young Jahad and his companions are snobs, no surprises there.

[JavaScribe]

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I guess Rachel's idealized self is an elf?

[guttering flame]

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I guess Rachel's idealized self is an elf?

I'm thinking Baam's mom.

[Lethologica]

I'm thinking Baam's mom.

Unlikely if Arlen Grace isn't a red herring.

[acheter]

A deeply satisfying chapter just for that, really.

[Lethologica]

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Called it on the sworn enemy. Now we (eventually) get to see how Koon acts around the guy he wants to replace.

[Kantaki]

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Can I just say how much I love Rachel's alias?
Cause she's gonna crash and burn.

Also, „Sweet Castle” or „Cold Land”?
I know which one I would choose...

[JavaScribe]

The latest.

We've heard all about him for a while, it's about time Jahad started getting directly involved in the plot.

[Anteros]

I just caught up on a month worth of updates all at once, but honestly nothing really happened worth talking about.

[JavaScribe]

The latest.

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We get a bit more of Androssi's tragic backstory and a reflection of our main villain has finally made a direct appearance.

[Olinser]

The latest.

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We get a bit more of Androssi's tragic backstory and a reflection of our main villain has finally made a direct appearance.

I still have doubts that Zahard is the actual main villain. We still haven't seen any indication of WHY he sealed off the next highest floor, and I feel like they're setting him up as basically the guy that's preventing people from pissing off something that's higher up the tower and would kill them all, and trying to force people to get stronger so they can actually fight it.

[Anteros]

Well, even if he has a good reason to seal the tower, he's still responsible for a lot of awful things that go on under his rule. I hope we get to see the major houses fall even if they don't end up being the primary antagonists.

[Olinser]

Well, even if he has a good reason to seal the tower, he's still responsible for a lot of awful things that go on under his rule. I hope we get to see the major houses fall even if they don't end up being the primary antagonists.

The only thing that Zahard actually seems to be directly responsible for is the Princess competition (which only feeds further into the idea that his goal is to make everybody stronger before they go further up), the bulk of the really awful things going on seem to be the result of the various Heads scheming against each other.

[JavaScribe]

I still have doubts that Zahard is the actual main villain. We still haven't seen any indication of WHY he sealed off the next highest floor, and I feel like they're setting him up as basically the guy that's preventing people from pissing off something that's higher up the tower and would kill them all, and trying to force people to get stronger so they can actually fight it.

Urek said the outside world has unlimited space. My personal theory is that he learned climbing the tower would make his title of king meaningless, which would hurt his ego. But I wasn't even thinking of that.

I was thinking more of the fact that he's the one that the story has been setting up as Baam's adversary. A lot of people want Zahard dead for vengeance. Baam's being setup as the one chosen by God to do it by a prophecy. Etc, etc.

His confirmed, personal list of evil deeds include:

1. Killing his crush's baby out of jealousy. Since Baam was presumably created from that baby's corpse, that makes things a bit personal.
2. Setting up the Zahard Princess contest.

The only thing that Zahard actually seems to be directly responsible for is the Princess competition (which only feeds further into the idea that his goal is to make everybody stronger before they go further up)

He's gathering the most talented and beautiful women in the tower to kill one another. Anyone who comes close to winning is driven insane and then killed/imprisoned by a jealous candidate that gave Zahard her word that the contest will never end. The passing candidates are forbidden from making babies on pain of death.

That sounds like the opposite of making everyone stronger. A purely Darwinian perspective only makes it look even more evil.

the bulk of the really awful things going on seem to be the result of the various Heads scheming against each other.

Zahard is the king of the tower, and he has actual power to back it up. What happens under his rule is still his responsibility, and it doesn't look like he's even tried to fix any of it.

If anything, from Princess Garam's story, it sounds like he deliberately setup the Princess contest to make the scheming even worse so that he can keep everyone distracted from the top of the tower.

[Olinser]

Urek said the outside world has unlimited space. My personal theory is that he learned climbing the tower would make his title of king meaningless, which would hurt his ego. But I wasn't even thinking of that.

I was thinking more of the fact that he's the one that the story has been setting up as Baam's adversary. A lot of people want Zahard dead for vengeance. Baam's being setup as the one chosen by God to do it by a prophecy. Etc, etc.

His confirmed, personal list of evil deeds include:

1. Killing his crush's baby out of jealousy. Since Baam was presumably created from that baby's corpse, that makes things a bit personal.
2. Setting up the Zahard Princess contest.

He's gathering the most talented and beautiful women in the tower to kill one another. Anyone who comes close to winning is driven insane and then killed/imprisoned by a jealous candidate that gave Zahard her word that the contest will never end. The passing candidates are forbidden from making babies on pain of death.

That sounds like the opposite of making everyone stronger. A purely Darwinian perspective only makes it look even more evil.


Zahard is the king of the tower, and he has actual power to back it up. What happens under his rule is still his responsibility, and it doesn't look like he's even tried to fix any of it.

If anything, from Princess Garam's story, it sounds like he deliberately setup the Princess contest to make the scheming even worse so that he can keep everyone distracted from the top of the tower.

It's Darwinian to take them out. The Princesses, for the most part, DON'T actually seem to be the best and the strongest. They're definitely top tier, but how much of that is actually the result of them being injected with Zahard's blood and how much is their personal power is very debatable. At the end of the day they were the group of people that is willing to be subordinate themselves to somebody else in return for easy fame and power. Out of the top 17 Rankers (we know all of their names and ranks unambiguously) only 2 are Princesses - and one of them was only actually given that rank after she went crazy with 2 13 month series weapons (before that she was SIGNIFICANTLY lower). Then out of the top 100 there are almost no other Princesses we've seen. They're a distraction from the climb more than anything else.

And since the Princess contest is explicitly him distracting from climbing the Tower, the only ACTUAL on-screen villainy he's perpetrated was killing his crush's baby. Other than that everything else is him simply not caring what goes on in the Tower. Which if he has a higher goal, makes sense.

There is definitely something going on with the Guardians - the fact that there is only 1 per floor, that only Irregulars are able to take a test from the Guardian, and that they are, in fact, killable by a sufficiently powerful being (Enryu, presumably Phantaminum, and potentially Zahard or Mazino, but that's unlikely). Headon in particular definitely had some kind of goal when he let Rachel into the tower.

[JavaScribe]

It's Darwinian to take them out. The Princesses, for the most part, DON'T actually seem to be the best and the strongest. They're definitely top tier, but how much of that is actually the result of them being injected with Zahard's blood and how much is their personal power is very debatable.

You can debate it I guess, and certainly the empowerment makes them stronger, but the intention is to choose candidates based on their beauty and skill. The Snake Charmer explicitly said as much. Zahard is definitely not doing this to make the Tower stronger. The only known motive is the distraction one.

At the end of the day they were the group of people that is willing to be subordinate themselves to somebody else in return for easy fame and power.

Some of them. Many of them were under intense pressure to. Take Kaiser, for example, who was banished from her family for failing. Androssi is an even better example. She never had a choice at all. As we just learned, she was deprived of an ordinary life by force. Zahard isn't doing this out of some noble motive to cull the tower of bullies.

And since the Princess contest is explicitly him distracting from climbing the Tower,

There are probably gentler methods to distract everyone from climbing the tower than manipulating everyone into scheming and killing one another. Regardless of whatever monster you are convinced Zahard is protecting everyone from, this method can only be described as evil. I doubt this monster will grow stronger just from everyone knowing it exists. I doubt it's forcing Zahard to offer it beautiful virgin sacrifices containing his blood either.

the only ACTUAL on-screen villainy he's perpetrated was killing his crush's baby.

That alone gives us a pretty good view of his character. Even if Zahard really is protecting everyone from a monster that wants to eat everyone who reaches the top, it's pretty clear being king is at least as much a motive for what he's done. And it makes him an adversary for our main protagonist personally.

[JavaScribe]

The latest.

Sounds like Zahard embraces being a monster.

[guttering flame]

If that's his philosophy why are the 10 companions still around? Maybe they were replaced by whatever?

[Lethologica]

If that's his philosophy why are the 10 companions still around? Maybe they were replaced by whatever?

In the data world, they aren't still around, according to Koon Edahn or whatever his name is.

[JavaScribe]

If that's his philosophy why are the 10 companions still around? Maybe they were replaced by whatever?

And in addition to what Lethologica said, the real world versions are immortal. I'm sure he wouldn't mind getting rid of them, but he probably doesn't feel ready to pick a fight with them yet.

Besides, Po is the only one we are aware of that's currently rebelling against him, so it probably isn't his highest priority yet.

[JavaScribe]

The latest.

We get to learn what Rak is.

[Olinser]

The latest.

We get to learn what Rak is.

We already know.

Rak is the physical personification of awesome.