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2017-02-21, 06:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
I hope Bandana manages to rally the crew to her side. Especially since she actually appears to know what she's doing despite now being tied up. Andi just seems dumb at this point, but we'll have to see.
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2017-02-21, 06:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2016
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
The rest of the crew does seem to be relatively content for the moment with Andi being in charge, but maybe that's because they're light-years more professional than she is in a crisis situation.
As soon as the threat lightens or Andi's stupidity gets them in deeper or inescapable trouble, I would imagine there will be some sort of crew conference over the issue (peaceful or otherwise).I prepared Explosive Runes before writing this signature.
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2017-02-21, 06:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
Good grief, Andi.
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2017-02-21, 06:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2015
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- Gondor, Middle Earth
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Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
Is there another chance for another long, Naruto-esque flashback arc? If not, I am more than okay and actually happy about that.
But anyways, now I finally know the relative age difference of Andi and Bandanna. OotS art style makes that hard.I'm a Lawful Good Human PaladinJustice and honor are a heavy burden for the righteous. We carry this weight so that the weak may grow strong and the meek grow brave
— The Acts of Iomedae, Pathfinder
Avatar made by Professor Gnoll
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2017-02-21, 06:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2011
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2017-02-21, 07:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2014
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: Logic's Deathloop Mafia and Book Wombat's A Small Wager - A Practical Guide To Evil
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My Homebrew
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2017-02-21, 07:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2012
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- California
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Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
That's not really funny or ironic, because there are also several records that say that Nero sent out men who STARTED the fire, and then played an instrument while he watched it burn.
And even if he didn't, it is universally agreed that it took him quite a while to actually start his efforts to control the fire - which is why it burned for 6 days. So the saying still holds up. If he had actually been present and effective then the fire probably wouldn't have burned for six days.Last edited by Olinser; 2017-02-21 at 07:22 PM.
Artist of my Avatar: http://www.deviantart.com/art/Rakrakrak-272771299ALL HAIL THE GREAT RAK!!
I use the same name in every game I ever play or forum I join (except the pretender on PSN that forced me to be RealOlinser). If you see an Olinser in a game or on a website, there's a high chance it's me, feel free to shoot me a message.
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2017-02-21, 07:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2017
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
Later records, from people who weren't here. But it's true to argue which Roman chronicles are more biased is an exercise in futility.
That's baseless speculations. The Emperor doesn't control fire, he didn't have to be in Rome at the time, and it's not like he was diddling around after being reported Rome was burning. He still showed up the morning of the night the fire started, with food and help.
But anyway.Last edited by Unoriginal; 2017-02-21 at 07:33 PM.
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2017-02-21, 07:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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- Yorkshire
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Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
Trigonometry, the study of triangles, is probably part of the required training to be an engineer on an airship. After all, with the way it's built, there are at least two sets of non-perpendicular forces acting on each point. For instance, the gas bag has load on the bits where it supports the hull, it also has load coming from head on and the sides when in flight (particularly when turning), and it has load at the rear where the fins and their control linkages are. Depending on the rigidity of the envelope and whatever connects the gas bag to the hull, if you make a mistake in working out what sort/how strong/which direction the stresses are at each point of load, the gas bag and the hull could part company.
Trigonometry is also certainly a requirement for navigation. Maybe Andi wanted to take a different career path than engineer, but couldn't handle the abstract calculations required?
So, no, there is no reason to see Andi trying to do her trig homework while babysitting as being a nerd, as an indicator of the stereotypical lack-of-social-skills-but-academically-gifted engineer. Andi trying to do her trig homework while babysitting is simply an indicator that she's trying to get to grips with the required material to do a job on an airship.My books - Have Sword & Sorcery: Will Travel™ (available to buy at all good online bookshops)
Literary threat #19:
They say the pen is mightier than the sword - and I'm pretty handy with both, you know...
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2017-02-21, 07:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2013
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
I really don't like to criticize Rich, because this is his story and not mine, but seriously? This is just an excuse for Bandana to be as crappy a leader as she's always been. It feels like an excuse to delegitimize Andi by giving her a crappy reason to do what she did, and present Bandana as superior merely because Andi is so wrong.
Honestly, I feel like Rich is playing favorites with Bandana, excusing her actions because he likes her and making sure everyone opposing her has a stupid reason for doing so. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think that I am reading this strip.
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2017-02-21, 08:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
Yes, that Rich, ridiculously thinking that Bandana and Andi are characters he made up and controls entirely, such that if he writes a conflict in such a way that Bandana is clearly in the right and Andi is clearly in the wrong, it means Bandana is clearly in the right and Andi is clearly in the wrong, instead of being vile slander of the innocent Andi.
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2017-02-21, 08:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2015
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- Italy
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Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
Defending the situation where she called out miss Leeroy Jenkins for going head on in an ambush at walking speed?
Sure, I did that, but I explained my point over and over on that issue, so I'm not going to beat a dead horse again. Still I keep my point on that, but I do that internally.
Defending a character from the author's will to show the aforementioned character annoying, immature, etc, to "prove" that her whole tactical point was wrong as well?
I don't think it's the case, really.
It reminds me of a point regarding Miko I discussed recently, so... meh, been there, done that: I'll pass.
Edit: Ah, I was beaten on the point by Matt620, just a couple of posts above mine. Agreeing with him, more or less.Last edited by Dr.Zero; 2017-02-21 at 09:01 PM.
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2017-02-21, 09:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2013
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Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
I mean, if you gave an alternative that wasn't almost certainly going to result in them getting lost in the mountains, stalled while under fire, taken down by the giants they passed earlier (as opposed to the ones Haley, V and Belkar are successfully dealing with), crashed into a mountain or some combination of the above, I must have missed it, and would appreciate having it repeated.
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2017-02-21, 10:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
Or possibly refuse to carry the team trying to save the world from getting destroyed by the gods. Or possibly that Bandana should've predicted the future and avoided all danger, somehow.
Also, I'm sure "Leeroy Jenkins" & "walking pace" is a contradiction, verging on an oxymoron.
Grey WolfInterested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2017-02-21, 10:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2013
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Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2017-02-21, 10:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
Yeah, it looks like trying to make two contradictory complaints at once: that Bandana's "advance forward at a speed that lets you avoid the mountains" plan, which was working where Andi's brilliant "let's go into this random dead end" plan is not, was wrong to be advancing and wrong not to be going at full speed. Giants, mountains, and the end of the world all being unimportant, except insofar as the first of the three demonstrate the necessity of obedience to Andi in all things.
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2017-02-21, 10:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2017-02-21, 10:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
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- Mexico
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Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
After all this time I keep seeing this. I am starting to wonder if I should add Andi to my signature.
As for my standing on this whole Andi-Bandanna situation, regardless of whether her actions are justifiable, I just hope that Andi is ready to take responsibility for her actions.
So far, the ship has suffered damage while under her command.
The Order has been put in a tough spot since the ship, whose services they are paying for and protecting, isn't following their best interest anymore.
And she has alienated the crew.
I hope that she is ready to take responsibility since the moment she started her mutiny up until now, she has been in charge.
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2017-02-21, 11:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
I'd say she manifestly isn't. She's pausing in the middle of the crisis to taunt the captain she mutineed against and reassert her rightness, now with extra-lampshaded self-serving illogic.
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2017-02-21, 11:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
We even have Bandana calling her out on the "just a kid" thing Andi was whining about not two minutes ago, and Andi denying it. No, it's all down to "Bandana's wrong because she's Bandana".
This situation is going to get worse before it gets better, because we haven't seen the full extent of how disastrously wrong Andi is.Assistant Treasurer of the Haley fan club
Crewman of the Bandana fan club
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2017-02-21, 11:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2004
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Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
"everyone opposing her has a stupid reason for doing so" = only Andi
Andi is a character whose personal flaws were highlighted multiple times, even if we lacked the information at the time to fully understand them.
Regardless of whether you or I personally think this is the best written sequence, your complaint makes no sense. The Giant basically telegraphed where this was going. It is perfectly logical and reasonable and justified for him to follow through. That is not making excuses. That is the opposite of making excuses. That is being as forthright as an author is this genre could reasonably be.
Perhaps you think that Andi is flawed in an unnecessarily simplistic way. I get that. But that basically means that Andi is a character that you do not care for, as the Giant strongly hinted to you multiple times.
Some characters we dislike in a satisfying way. Some characters we dislike in a dissatisfying way. There is not a universally correct way to write characters that are destined to be disliked, to satisfy all readers.Last edited by Snails; 2017-02-21 at 11:39 PM.
I owe Peelee 5 Quatloos. But I am going double or nothing that Durkon will be casting 8th level spells at the big finale.
I bet Goblin_Priest 5 quatloos that Xykon does not know RC has the phylactery at this point in the tale (#1139).
Using my Bardic skills I see the fate of Belkar...so close!
Using my Bardic skills I see the fate of goblinkind!
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2017-02-21, 11:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
Technically, the frost giants are also opposing Bandana. I suppose whether their reason for doing so is stupid depends on one's opinion of "our god literally told us to," which might get a different answer depending on whether the instruction came with or without "...so the world will end!" which is information we do not have.
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2017-02-21, 11:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
He's still evil and trying to dominate the world in the name of an evil-aligned deity. And he constantly gets put down by Xykon, most recently and most pointedly in the arc at the North Pole, you know, "Logic is overrated gibberish", mocking Redcloak as being beholden to math textbooks, "That's why you're a nerd that nobody likes," etc.
Sure, if you want to take that scene in the most absolutely, mind-numbingly literal manner possible. Really, it could have just as easily been any STEM field/topic. The point the author was making with the flashback is that Andi thought it was more important to do [insert random complex school subject here] rather than bother trying to properly supervise or bond with Bandana, and by extension to the present-day situation conveying the message that her "book smarts" are worthless in a leadership position because she doesn't know how to handle people and stressful situations.
That may be a worthwhile message to some, but I find that frustrating (as an engineer myself) because it's been done to the point of utter cliché in other media, and it perpetuates the stereotype that people who are dedicated to scientific or technological pursuits are supposedly always weak in social and/or management skills. That said, enough people have explained upthread that it's really just a one-off in the greater context of the storyline that I'm willing to let it slide (assuming it doesn't develop into an anvil that continues getting bashed on our heads).I prepared Explosive Runes before writing this signature.
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2017-02-21, 11:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
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Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
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2017-02-22, 12:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
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2017-02-22, 12:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2010
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Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
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2017-02-22, 12:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2016
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
And I hope it doesn't. By contrast, frost giants, vampires working for Hel, callous jerks like Belkar, even Redcloak and Xykon -- these I can stomach, since they are, in the end, more or less upfront about their intentions and consistent in pursuing their goals. It's the flaky self-centred and self-interested types, who can turn traitor in an instant and wrench you over the head when their ego gets ever so slightly nudged, that I cannot and will not tolerate.
I mean with "allies" like Andi, who needs enemies like the frost giants? At this point her stupidity may well get the ship crashed and wrecked with no further involvement from the outside. At the very least, I hope Andi gets some moment where she truly comprehends the magnitude of her stupidity and wrongdoing before she encounters whatever fate (death, imprisonment, marooning, etc.) is in store after all the traitorous malfeasance.I prepared Explosive Runes before writing this signature.
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2017-02-22, 12:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
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Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
I personally assume Thrym left off "...so the world will end!" because I see no upside for Thrym to being open and his one appearance shows him not giving any reason even when everyone else is presenting their reasons so we've no reason to assume he's talkative.
That said, I don't think it matters, the giants have a justification, which is why Rich doesn't need to spend any time on it. Their actions are entirely understandable. Their motivation will get screen time only if something happens to change it. But given the existence of both an afterlife and of gods who'll make a new world if this one ends, "...so the world will end!" is not necessarily a reason not to act as your god wants you to (see also Redcloak for an example of such a character). So if Rich tells us tomorrow that Thrym did tell his giants that he's trying to end the world, I'll be mildly surprised by that, and I'll see no reason at all why this should be taken as an argument that the giants don't have a perfectly good reason for what they're doing.
Andi remains the only one irrationally opposed to Bandana.
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2017-02-22, 12:18 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
Excellent point. Heck, for a significant portion of the giants, the world did just end. Presumably, if your god tells you "the end is nigh if these guys don't make it to their destination, but if you help make it happen, you get a pass into heaven", you'd be happy to.
GWInterested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2017-02-22, 12:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
Whoo boy, still some holdouts. Damn, I am flabbergasted. Glad the popcorn didn't go to waste. And now there's a separate thread to argue this more? I'm there. *grabs more popcorn*
That kinda seems like I'm just enjoying the chaos and don't have a side but I'd just like to clarify, I'm of the opinion that Andi is thoroughly in the wrong here. Granted, I'd very slightly give that there might be room for improvement with Bandana and that she could have done better (but honestly, I think having one fall through the cracks is extremely flimsy an argument towards her "incompetence", especially if the one that did was already opposed to her being in command in the first place), but that would constitute to a flawless character, perhaps even reaching Mary Sue levels. Bandana has done right in being acting captain and following the orders issued by the legitimate captain, in his absence, to the best of her ability. I'm just submitted to the fact that there would be some that, beyond overwhelming evidence to the contrary, would argue that their side is correct, even if the evidence they present is lackluster at best or far reaching assumptions at worst (or at even worse times, not even submitting any evidence at all).
I like this. This makes a whole lot of sense.
Edit:
Oh, just to address the people noticing too much of a pile-up of the stakes, I think Mr. Burlew already made it perfectly clear that many factions are jockeying for position for this particular macguffin, so we might be in for more. This crescendo could be the opening salvo that signals the story is coming to the climax and may very well be coming towards the endgame. But that would just be my presumption, I'm just still enjoying the ride after 1066 pages.
Double Edit:
Wait, there are 2 threads now? Golly gosh, Christmas (or your culture appropriate holiday) came in February.