Is Andi wrong?

[zinycor]

I mean, if she'd just said "you let gnomes on the ship!" that would be even worse, but everything she says about them is insulting. They're a swarm, like insects. Their size is worth bringing up when she's complaining about them. They're (supposedly) grubby when Bandana sends them to fix the ship, before they've done any work, which only makes sense if "grubby" is an inherent quality of gnomes. If she was objecting to--I can't actually tell what you're suggesting she's saying; her lines are so entirely racist that if I rephrase them to something nonracist I get either silence or something like "I still hate you, Bandana-Who-I-Will-Not-Call-Captain." She minds having to work with like-insects, inherently-dirty, smaller-than-they-should-be...gnomes. That's literally all that she said about them.

"Gnome" on its own may be a neutral descriptor, but I would advise not saying "I was stuck here with a dozen brunettes!" unless you want the person you're addressing to conclude you have something against brown hair.

I don't think that she necessarily meant that the gnomes were "inherently-dirty", for all the we know these particular gnomes were dirty.

[yldenfrei]

I don't think that she necessarily meant that the gnomes were "inherently-dirty", for all the we know these particular gnomes were dirty.

Do people casually refer to workers as "dirty garbage collectors" or "dirty plumbers" or "dirty mechanics"?

[Kish]

That strikes me as a great deal like the original premise of this thread: Wait, Andi's supposed to be wrong? I was assuming everything she said and did was Rich endorsing her views.

It is theoretically possible, by which I mean I cannot disprove it without seeing the specific gnomes in question, that she stuck a complaint that the gnomes showed up to work on the ship unbathed (using a word with certain connotations as well as denotations) in between calling them a swarm and mentioning their size. That would, in light of the no-dirtier-than-the-humans-Rich-depicts gnomes depicted in Gnometown, be sufficiently odd to suggest there should be an explanation. Yet it's treated as a throwaway insult...in the middle of Andi's generally racist rant. And even if you could justify taking out "grubby" as an insult? It would still be a racist rant.

[Rogar Demonblud]

It used to be Starboard and Larboard, but it became traditional for ships to have their access gangways on the larboard side; so over a period of time it became known as the port side.

Of course they tie the larboard side to the wharf. How else will you get the cargo aboard?

For those not ship-geeks, starboard is a mispronunciation of the Norse steorbord, or steering board. Larboard is lader-board (I don't have umlauts or those o's with a line through them on this computer, so spellings are approximate).

[Mido]

Of course they tie the larboard side to the wharf. How else will you get the cargo aboard?

For those not ship-geeks, starboard is a mispronunciation of the Norse steorbord, or steering board. Larboard is lader-board (I don't have umlauts or those o's with a line through them on this computer, so spellings are approximate).

I hope this does not come off as disrespectful in any way, shape or form for those that are in the know, but for the life of me, I thought the Starboard-Larboard thing was, on the face of it, a joke. I'm currently punching my brain for thinking that.

I love picking up little tidbits like these. I'm definitely spending more time on these boards (and hopefully contribute) from here on out. Been just lurky for the longest time... like a decade, since I learned about this site and the webcomic.

[Marlowe]

Of course they tie the larboard side to the wharf. How else will you get the cargo aboard?

For those not ship-geeks, starboard is a mispronunciation of the Norse steorbord, or steering board. Larboard is lader-board (I don't have umlauts or those o's with a line through them on this computer, so spellings are approximate).

THANK YOU! So it's Norse!

A ridiculous number of English words relating to seafaring are derived from Dutch. Like "skipper". I really wasn't sure.

And I have the feeling the a statement like "Those Humans know when they've got you by the short hairs" is not quite on the same lines as "I've been stuck with a pack of grubby little Humans".

[Quild]

The context is that Andi is complaining and calls them "a swarm of grubby little gnomes."

I mean, if she'd just said "you let gnomes on the ship!" that would be even worse, but everything she says about them is insulting. They're a swarm, like insects. Their size is worth bringing up when she's complaining about them. They're (supposedly) grubby when Bandana sends them to fix the ship, before they've done any work, which only makes sense if "grubby" is an inherent quality of gnomes. If she was objecting to--I can't actually tell what you're suggesting she's saying; her lines are so entirely racist that if I rephrase them to something nonracist I get either silence or something like "I still hate you, Bandana-Who-I-Will-Not-Call-Captain." She minds having to work with like-insects, inherently-dirty, smaller-than-they-should-be...gnomes. That's literally all that she said about them.

"Gnome" on its own may be a neutral descriptor, but I would advise not saying "I was stuck here with a dozen brunettes!" unless you want the person you're addressing to conclude you have something against brown hair.

The gnomes are grubby because they spent the whole day fixing the ship. Andi's grubby herself, just look at her. She also was when she made quick repairs while in the middle of the storm.
Bandana comes back saying she had XP, loots, exercise and waffles. While Andi was having a ****ty day. She was with grubby gnomes who made her think at a swarm the way they worked. The fact that they're little and probably a lot (the maximum they could be in order to work very very very fast) and probably working/acting/moving very fast. Hence the comparison.

I know I may say this kind of things either in a positive, neutral or negative way. Again, I acknowledge it's not politically correct. But you have some language flaws without being racist.

I'm not asking myself if Andi's racist here. I'm asking myself if The Giant wants to depict Andi as despicable. I don't have the feeling we were hinted that like for Tarquin. Just that she's fine enough with most people (crew, Roy, even Belkar) but not with Bandana. Maybe not with the gnomes who maybe didn't immediately listen to her about what she consider being her baby.



On another note, I didn't notice that Andi seemed fine enough about being a sky taxi in #990.

Do people casually refer to workers as "dirty garbage collectors" or "dirty plumbers" or "dirty mechanics"?

Well, if they have to spend some time with them, they might be disturbed enough to complain about it.

[Kish]

"Politically correct" is a phrase that means "I wish to disparage the idea that there's anything wrong with saying that," and that's all. But this is goofy. If you want to deny that Andi's racist rant was racist, have fun with that.

[Keltest]

Do people casually refer to workers as "dirty garbage collectors" or "dirty plumbers" or "dirty mechanics"?

While it isn't usually explicitly said to their faces, plumbers, garbage collectors and other such vocations tend to have a reputation for poor personal hygiene and generally being unpleasant house guests. Some of that is warranted (you don't stay clean working with toilets or garbage, period) and some of it is a stereotype, but the reputation is there.

[Yendor]

You know, this talk of racism makes me wonder if part of that massively inflated repair bill was because of Andi's abrasiveness.

[Riftwolf]

"Politically correct" is a phrase that means "I wish to disparage the idea that there's anything wrong with saying that," and that's all. But this is goofy. If you want to deny that Andi's racist rant was racist, have fun with that.

Id argue 'racist epiphet' over 'racist rant'. She didn't continue along that line of insult, after all. Having been at the receiving end of some rants, I'd consider Andi casually averse over actively hateful.

[yldenfrei]

While it isn't usually explicitly said to their faces, plumbers, garbage collectors and other such vocations tend to have a reputation for poor personal hygiene and generally being unpleasant house guests. Some of that is warranted (you don't stay clean working with toilets or garbage, period) and some of it is a stereotype, but the reputation is there.

No, I mean really use the term "dirty mechanic" et al. Because not only is it quite redundant (as you pointed out, part of the vocation), it also comes off as being stuck up.

So to return, what does Andi mean by pointing out the obvious grubbiness of the gnome mechanics (in a very Pot-Kettle-Black moment no less), other than to paint them in a bad light?

EDIT: Missed Quild's post. While I agree that this may be a minor quibble and that the Giant may have no overt intention of making Andi racist, the fact remains that it was a loaded choice of phrasing, in a way that separates her from the gnomes and attaching a descriptor to them alone when it just as easily refers to her as well. And really? A mechanic complaining that other mechanics are dirty (while being obviously dirty herself)?
To put it another way: I'm surprised Andi did not include herself in the grubbiness description to score Misery points and make her all the more the martyr.

[Keltest]

No, I mean really use the term "dirty mechanic" et al. Because not only is it quite redundant (as you pointed out, part of the vocation), it also comes off as being stuck up.

So to return, what does Andi mean by pointing out the obvious grubbiness of the gnome mechanics (in a very Pot-Kettle-Black moment nonetheless), other than to paint them in a bad light?

EDIT: Missed Quild's post. While I agree that this may be a minor quibble and that the Giant may have no overt intention of making Andi racist, the fact remains that it was a loaded choice of phrasing, in a way that separates her from the gnomes and attaching a descriptor to them alone when it just as easily refers to her as well. And really? A mechanic complaining that other mechanics are dirty (while being obviously dirty herself)?
To put it another way: I'm surprised Andi did not include herself in the grubbiness description to score Misery points and make her all the more the martyr.

It is entirely possible that she considers the gnomes unclean in a way that is not standard for airship mechanics. maybe they smell like sulfur?

[SaintRidley]

To answer the question in the title of this thread: Yes. Exceptionally so.

Id argue 'racist epiphet' over 'racist rant'. She didn't continue along that line of insult, after all. Having been at the receiving end of some rants, I'd consider Andi casually averse over actively hateful.

Yeah, one to two sentences falls far short of a rant.

[Kish]

"Epithet" would be one insult; as I've said, I count four (swarm, grubby, their size is somehow relevant, their race is somehow relevant). Might be too short for a rant but it's definitely too long for a single epithet.

[The_Weirdo]

"Epithet" would be one insult; as I've said, I count four (swarm, grubby, their size is somehow relevant, their race is somehow relevant). Might be too short for a rant but it's definitely too long for a single epithet.

How about "rantlet"?

[Peelee]

How about "rantlet"?

I'm going to use this now.

[Xyril]

I don't think that she necessarily meant that the gnomes were "inherently-dirty", for all the we know these particular gnomes were dirty.

I don't think I have ever parsed someone calling someone a "dirty Jew" or a "greedy Jew" as meaning "A specific individual possesses a certain negative attribute, and I'm going to identify him as the guy who happens to belong to a certain group so you know who I'm talking about, and not because I'm trying to make any implications about that group and whether or not they possess that certain negative attribute in general.

[Ruck]

I don't think that she necessarily meant that the gnomes were "inherently-dirty", for all the we know these particular gnomes were dirty.

Sure, and people who use racial slurs in real life don't mean "the good ones," you know, just the rest. (Or, what Xyril said, more or less.)

[Quild]

"Politically correct" is a phrase that means "I wish to disparage the idea that there's anything wrong with saying that," and that's all. But this is goofy. If you want to deny that Andi's racist rant was racist, have fun with that.

I see this term as the line between saying something incorrect (in context, racist) and thinking it/being it.

Andi maybe said a racist comment, it doesn't mean she has something against gnomes in general or other races. More a poor choice of words. I might be wrong on all points, that's still a strong possibility. Even if The Giant wrote it poorly (in your opinion)

[Rynjin]

I see this term as the line between saying something incorrect (in context, racist) and thinking it/being it.

Andi maybe said a racist comment, it doesn't mean she has something against gnomes in general or other races. More a poor choice of words. I might be wrong on all points, that's still a strong possibility. Even if The Giant wrote it poorly (in your opinion)

Don't forget likening half-elves to dogs. Which more importantly was a remark that feeds into her (shown by that to be hypocritical) irrational age complex.

[Keltest]

I see this term as the line between saying something incorrect (in context, racist) and thinking it/being it.

Andi maybe said a racist comment, it doesn't mean she has something against gnomes in general or other races. More a poor choice of words. I might be wrong on all points, that's still a strong possibility. Even if The Giant wrote it poorly (in your opinion)

Personally, I feel her comment was more in the line of 'I'm frustrated and using coarse language to exaggerate my discomfort" rather than "I hate gnomes and am terribly racist".

[Kish]

In my opinion? Ho ho, hold on. Where did I say Rich wrote it poorly?

[KorvinStarmast]

You know, this talk of racism makes me wonder if part of that massively inflated repair bill was because of Andi's abrasiveness.

Ya think? Haley's persuasion and bluff skills being what they are, it was still a softball for her once the gnomes had been dealing with Andi all morning.

Plus, you can't dislike gnomes in this strip:
1. The cute gal not only sold Belkar that ring, she invited him to lunch.
2. They make great waffles.
3. Cool lightning weapon that (oops, anyone could make this mistake) supercharged Golem Crystal.

[Yuki Akuma]

Honestly, it's pretty weird to call the only race in the setting capable of magically cleaning themselves with a racial spell-like ability 'grubby'.

[Snails]

Honestly, it's pretty weird to call the only race in the setting capable of magically cleaning themselves with a racial spell-like ability 'grubby'.

The spell-like ability can be used to achieve the opposite of clean just as easily. You are just assuming. ;)

[Riftwolf]

How about "rantlet"?

Okay epithet was a poor word choice. Outburst(s) would've been better. But rantlet wins so I'll be using that from now on :)

[Riftwolf]

The spell-like ability can be used to achieve the opposite of clean just as easily. You are just assuming. ;)

This led to a weird train of thought; are you saying the gnomes want to be dirty? Do they like being dirty? So much so they'll use 1/day cantrips to increase their dirt levels? Do - do you want the gnomes dirtier?

[archon_huskie]

She picked right, so starboard. Easy to remember: Port is the place you Left.

I belatedly note the helmsman knew he had to dumb down port or starboard to left or right for Andi to understand. You'd think she's pick up the basic lingo in fifteen years.

The way I teach it in Boy Scouts is:

Port has four letters. Left has four letters. So port=left.
Starboard does not have four letters. Right does not have four letters. Starboard=right.

[Xyril]

I wonder if there are people who started spending enough time on boats that they don't need to think of port and starboard in terms of left and right. Or if, in fact, they need to remind themselves that right is starboard if they were a boat.