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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: Aelita's Allure [IC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lentrax View Post
    Exactly. I would love to know a personal AI. To have someone who would get me so perfectly... I don't think it would be a huge ethical issue. Maybe if someone made an army of killer AIs and we had to figure out what to do. Maybe then, but for now, it's just about the only silly dream I have.
    What? Are you saying people don't get you?
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  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: Aelita's Allure [IC]

    Theres always people willing to say they do, but they don't really understand your interests or hobbies, or the drive to be the absolute very best you can be. They'll say they know how you feel or understand how you feel the way you do. But none of them really do. The best you can hope for is just a partial alignment. No one living person could ever really "get" you, know what I mean? But I bet an AI, a real AI could. And that's where my dream comes from. I know it's stupid, but, well, there it is.

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  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: Aelita's Allure [IC]

    People barely understand people as a whole, and we all at least have a consensus on what reality is. People disagree based on all kinds of philosophical things: imagine trying to add a lifeform that experiences the world in a way that is fundamentally different from us.

    I'm not anti-technology; on the contrary! If an AI existed, I'd love to interview them and ask those questions myself. It would be one hell of a scoop to say the least! It really would push our understanding of things forwards leaps and bounds!

    The more we know about the world, and about how other people act and think, the better. Why do you think I go to school in a foreign country? AI would be incredible. But it's more complicated than just having a computer friend; it involves questions about identity, self and reality, things that philosophers and science-fiction has been struggling to answer for decades.

    ... I sound like such an otaku...
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  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: Aelita's Allure [IC]

    "I believe most of your previous questions are a lot easier to answer than you seemed to believe, Otoha.

    1. It can be quite easy to figure out whether an AI is truly sentient, or if they're just programmed to appear to be. And if they are sentient, then they are undeniably a person. H*ll, what would I be otherwise?

    2. Deleting an AI is destroying them. Would you consider the destruction of a sentient person murder?

    3. While in many jurisdictions nonhumans have about the same legal rights as pets - and often the same lifestyle, too - some, such as our own, of course, have given nonhumans equal rights with humans, as long as the nonhuman can prove their sentience. Which, as stated before, can be a lot easier than most people think."


    Quote Originally Posted by Quiver View Post
    People barely understand people as a whole, and we all at least have a consensus on what reality is. People disagree based on all kinds of philosophical things: imagine trying to add a lifeform that experiences the world in a way that is fundamentally different from us.
    "What, like my kind? But it's true that human society's standards are a bit different from the rest of ours'."
    Last edited by Sicarius Victis; 2017-03-21 at 03:51 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: Aelita's Allure [IC]

    Those were just my off the cuff examples. Frankly, I don't want to venture my opinion on the subject; a reporter is supposed to be unbiased.

    BUT.

    Off the record, I agree. An AI would be "cool". An AI would be interesting. Technology is heading in that direction, so it's inevitable that it will happen sooner or later.

    I just think that imagining it'll be a happy, stress-free fantasy is... well, a silly dream. The real world is complicated. You said it yourself: many jurisdictions barely recognise the rights of non-humans, despite the fact it's not difficult/relatively easy to prove sentience. And that is in the case of people who exist in flesh and blood, in the real world; how difficult do you think it would be to convince someone that a computer program is truly sentient- one hundred percent 'alive' - if you still have people who refuse to extent the courtesy to actual living people?

    The text wall stopped for a moment, followed by:

    Side bar: am I the only one thinking a debate on this issue would make a much more interesting project than the one we've been given?
    Last edited by Quiver; 2017-03-21 at 04:22 PM.
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  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: Aelita's Allure [IC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Quiver View Post
    Technology is heading in that direction, so it's inevitable that it will happen sooner or later.
    "Honestly, I half expect Google to go emergent one day. All the information it has stored - and is still continuing to acquire - it's only a matter of time."

    Quote Originally Posted by Quiver View Post
    I just think that imagining it'll be a happy, stress-free fantasy is... well, a silly dream. The real world is complicated. You said it yourself: many jurisdictions barely recognise the rights of non-humans, despite the fact it's not difficult/relatively easy to prove sentience. And that is in the case of people who exist in flesh and blood, in the real world; how difficult do you think it would be to convince someone that a computer program is truly sentient- one hundred percent 'alive' - if you still have people who refuse to extent the courtesy to actual living people?
    "It would actually be easier to prove the sentience of an AI, if you're trying to prove it to someone who actually knew anything about coding, than it would be to prove the sentience of a flesh-and-blood creature. In fact, I've actually been working on a couple of methods to test them, inspired by the ones I went through myself."

    Quote Originally Posted by Quiver View Post
    Side bar: am I the only one thinking a debate on this issue would make a much more interesting project than the one we've been given?
    "I certainly can't argue there. Does anyone have any contact information we could use to get in touch with our teachers?"
    Last edited by Sicarius Victis; 2017-03-21 at 04:33 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: Aelita's Allure [IC]

    I don't think it will be an 'easy' task to prove sentience. I mean look at how difficult it was for Data in Star Trek. Or the Doctor in Voyager. It won't be simple or easy. Not when you get to that level of life. And it probably all comes down to stupid humans not wanting to admit there is anything that might as smart, or smarter than they are.

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  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Default Re: Aelita's Allure [IC]

    "I'll rephrase it, then. It's surprisingly easy to get proof as to whether or not something is sentient, it's just a lot harder to get people to accept the proof. That better?"

  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: Aelita's Allure [IC]

    K- you're piquing my interest. You've been "developing methods" to masure sentience, and believe it would to be "surprisingly easy".

    Care to elaborate?

    If they were in person, there could be doubt that the question would be followed by having a microphone shoved in te catgirls face.
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  10. - Top - End - #70
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    Default Re: Aelita's Allure [IC]

    "I'll rephrase that: nonhumans like me are already tested to prove our sentience like that, I'm just working on adapting it to other possible subjects.

    For example, have you heard the phrase 'garbage in, garbage out'?"

  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Default Re: Aelita's Allure [IC]

    That if you put 'bad information' into a computer, you'll get 'bad information' out of it?

    As in, a computer can only answer/respond/use information that someone puts into it.
    Last edited by Quiver; 2017-03-24 at 01:48 PM.
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  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Default Re: Aelita's Allure [IC]

    But in addition, the system is only as good as the programming that went into it to begin with.

    But we are getting sidetracked. Does anyone have anything else for the project?

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  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Default Re: Aelita's Allure [IC]

    Right. Honestly, considering just how off track we got... I really think we should consider scrapping what we were doing and do something with this instead.
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  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Default Re: Aelita's Allure [IC]

    Aside from the fact that discussing the legal and moral implications of AI wasn't a valid topic for the project?

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  15. - Top - End - #75
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    Default Re: Aelita's Allure [IC]

    I... I could talk to the teachers. Because of my condition, I get some leeway, so I might be able to convince them to let us do that instead.
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  16. - Top - End - #76
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    Default Re: Aelita's Allure [IC]

    But that would render everything we've done so far as useless. For a sidetrack conversation!

    A brief pause.

    And why would your condition get you special leeway on something like this?

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  17. - Top - End - #77
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    Default Re: Aelita's Allure [IC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lentrax View Post
    But that would render everything we've done so far as useless. For a sidetrack conversation!
    "I wouldn't say 'useless'. A fair amount of what we'd done could probably be converted to a topic such as this one without too much difficulty. You just have to look at what we have from a different angle, is all."

    Quote Originally Posted by Lentrax View Post
    And why would your condition get you special leeway on something like this?
    "About standard for students who aren't able to get to school normally, isn't it? When you aren't able to be taught normally, most teachers tend to be so determined to keep trying to teach you that they'll be willing to change the curriculum a lot if it'll let the student learn even just a bit more.

    What do you say, Alicia?"
    Last edited by Sicarius Victis; 2017-03-24 at 04:35 PM.

  18. - Top - End - #78
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    Default Re: Aelita's Allure [IC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sicarius Victis View Post
    "What do you say, Alicia?"
    "Oh, uh sorry? Once you got into all that complicated conversation about robots, you lost me."
    Last edited by GM_3826; 2017-03-24 at 04:39 PM.
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    Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Einstein, as well
    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.

  19. - Top - End - #79
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    Default Re: Aelita's Allure [IC]

    Quote Originally Posted by GM_3826 View Post
    "Oh, uh sorry? Once you got into all that complicated conversation about robots, you lost me."
    "We're discussing attempting to see if we could change our topic to one about the "legal and moral implications of Artifical Intelligences in society", or something like that. What do you say?"
    Last edited by Sicarius Victis; 2017-03-24 at 04:41 PM.

  20. - Top - End - #80
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    Default Re: Aelita's Allure [IC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sicarius Victis View Post
    "We're discussing attempting to see if we could change our topic to one about the "legal and moral implications of Artifical Intelligences in society", or something like that. What do you say?"
    "Uh, sure."
    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Einstein
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  21. - Top - End - #81
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    Default Re: Aelita's Allure [IC]

    Okay. First, I think you are seriously underestimating how much work I have already gotten done. Second, I don't see what Artificial Intelligence has to do with a kid not being able to go to school.

    And third. I really don't want to change the topic.

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  22. - Top - End - #82
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    Default Re: Aelita's Allure [IC]

    I'm for it. I think it'd be a lot more interesting than the current project.

    And it's just that I actually talk to the teachers a lot-they probably know me a bit better than most students.


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    Opposed Check time! Skill vs. conflict, d6. Winning side gets 3 VP.

    Each person will choose whether they wish to support-Skill will support the AI Project, conflict will support the non-AI Project.

    Each side will roll all together, add up the totals, and the bigger number wins.
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  23. - Top - End - #83
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    Default Re: Aelita's Allure [IC]

    As a member of the Student Council, I talk to the faculty a lot myself. In fact, I think I had better email them myself to protest this blatant attempt to undermine my work.

    And so Christina does just that. In her email, she points out that the groups desire to change topics came as a result of a momentary sidetrack in their conversation, that the suggested topic was not on the approved topics list, and how she feels that her opinions and desires are being ignored. She also attaches her time charts, the compiled project thus far, along with all the relevant data she has to display how far they have already worked, only for all the work to be scrapped for something that, again, isn't even an approved topic.

    She is pretty sure that her protests will be turned down, but that doesn't stop her from making her best effort to keep things going. There is nothing Christina hates more than to waste time and energy.

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    Neutral Conflict. Connections. +2 total. Though out of curiosity, why can't we choose conflict or skill and have the Totals for each side be the factor. Not that it matters since I am pretty sure I'm the only one voting for the 'keep things the same' side.

    Strong Skill. Connections, Overachiever, Honor Student, Renaissance Lady. +7 total. Will use Foresight. Guessing Odd.
    Last edited by Lentrax; 2017-03-25 at 09:27 AM.

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  24. - Top - End - #84
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    Default Re: Aelita's Allure [IC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lentrax View Post
    Fine. Be that way. But as a member of the Student Council, I talk to the faculty a lot myself. In fact, I think I had better email them myself to protest this blatant attempt to undermine my work.

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    Neutral Conflict. Connections. +2 total. Though out of curiosity, why can't we choose conflict or skill and have the Totals for each side be the factor. Not that it matters since I am pretty sure I'm the only one voting for the 'keep things the same' side.
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    Eh, okay. Use Skill or Conflict.
    I have a LOT of Homebrew and a Patreon for it

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  25. - Top - End - #85
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    Default Re: Aelita's Allure [IC]

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    Honestly, this isn't quite fair. We've got two people for it, one against it, and one who seems to be fine either way. Maybe Alicia should join Christina, or something, to balance the sides out?

  26. - Top - End - #86
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    Default Re: Aelita's Allure [IC]

    ...Ah. I know I'm the one who brought this topic up. Frankly, I do think this would be more interesting as a topic...

    ...but I'll concede to the president's veto. It isn't that big a deal.

    Certainly not a deal worth burning bridges over. After all, making enemies with a member of the student council was probably not advantageous for the school paper.

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    Er... seriously, sorry for starting this conversation and kind of de-railing things somewhat!
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    Default Re: Aelita's Allure [IC]

    "...Did you even read what you wrote? 'Blatant attempt to undermine your work', huh? Don't make me laugh. But if that's how you choose to interpret this, I suppose I can't stop you."

    Kaya begins to write up her own email, highlighting the real-life applications of the new topic. She points out that it's onoy a matter of time before it really happens, so it would be better to learn about it before it got too urgent. She then adds that a project dedicated to human/nonhuman relations would be quite a useful project for any nearby nonhumans to do...

    Sure, maybe she'd be making an enemy of the student council. She really couldn't care less.

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    Kaya failed her last roll by 8. Thus, she'll use Down and Dirty to gain +8 on this roll, with an additional +2 from the Personality Flip she'd used last roll, +1 for strong Conflict, and +2 for Hiss!, as well as an additional +2 if JNAP rules that Verbal Barrage applies.

    Total: +13, +15 if Verbal Barrage is a yes.

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