Low Combat/Heavy RP campaign. Need help with character

[Glowbeard]

Since 5e came out I've only been playing that. I'm coming back to 3.5 due to our DM wanting to run that system as he knows it more and I'm a little tired of DMing myself.

We were making characters and he wants to do character creation differently. Write out the characters personality and background first. As your writing start thinking of what race and class would make the most sense. He stated that combat won't happen that often and went it does and if it does it will be dangerous so (like real people) we should avoid it. He wants to make it mostly RP and kind of most dark and realistic. So heavy heavy RP.

I haven't played 3.5 in a long time and I'm unfamiliar with what is fun and what kind of character would and wouldn't be good for that? Can a fighter or such a martial class even be useful or worth playing at that point? One of my friends said it didn't matter just pick a class and don't care for the abilities. Thought I kind of like having abilities that actually matter and are useful.

The party is a Rogue and a Bard and I'm the only other player. So skill monkey and some magic has already been taken care of. As a player i personally prefer classes that use weapons because I like cool weapon loot and always was so satisfied using a weapon over god magic.

Non-core classes are kind of off the table but if I had a damn good argument I may convince him otherwise so i want to stay away from that.

Anyways I appreciate if you read this far. I kind of need the help

[Pleh]

Rogue and bard in gritty realistic setting, heavy RP, low combat, and you like heavy weapons? Just play a fighter and call yourself a merc. Be less about power attack and more about grit and intimidation

[Menzath]

As a player i personally prefer classes that use weapons because I like cool weapon loot and always was so satisfied using a weapon over god magic.

Non-core classes are kind of off the table but if I had a damn good argument I may convince him otherwise so i want to stay away from that.

Dang, I was about to recommend psiwar or lurk for call weapon. Cause having a different weapon suddenly appear all the time is nifty.

If he lets you not have crazy binding oaths a paladin might be a good choice to. Be a former knight or some such, though the gritty fighter is a good choice too.
A well traveled barbarian could be almost indistinguishable from said fighter as well.
If class features aren't that much of a concern, are stats and skills still going to play a role? Or will rule of cool RP be what's most important?

[Glowbeard]

If he lets you not have crazy binding oaths a paladin might be a good choice to. Be a former knight or some such, though the gritty fighter is a good choice too.
A well traveled barbarian could be almost indistinguishable from said fighter as well.
If class features aren't that much of a concern, are stats and skills still going to play a role? Or will rule of cool RP be what's most important?

He said he doesn't like the heavy requirement and I'm sure i could play a Freedom Pally if i wanted. Also the Barb illiterate bothers me. I do like my skills and not being dumb haha

[Glowbeard]

Rogue and bard in gritty realistic setting, heavy RP, low combat, and you like heavy weapons? Just play a fighter and call yourself a merc. Be less about power attack and more about grit and intimidation

Can you build a fighter, barbarian, paladin to be more skill / utility focused?

[GilesTheCleric]

Trying to build a skillful mundane class with 2+int skill points is a mostly fruitless endeavour. Go with Rogue, Factotum, Aristocrat, or some other class with good skills.

Are you sure that 3.5 is the system you want to use for a game like this? It's a really rules-heavy simulationist system, not well-suited to lots of freeform RP. Has your group tried out Scion, Vampire, or other Whitewolf offerings? Something like World of Darkness or Call of Cthulhu might be better, just strip out some of the horror bits if that's not the kind of game you're using. Edit: I think Grod has a link to a rules-lite narrative system in his sig, too.

[Glowbeard]

Trying to build a skillful mundane class with 2+int skill points is a mostly fruitless endeavour. Go with Rogue, Factotum, Aristocrat, or some other class with good skills.

Are you sure that 3.5 is the system you want to use for a game like this? It's a really rules-heavy simulationist system, not well-suited to lots of freeform RP. Has your group tried out Scion, Vampire, or other Whitewolf offerings? Something like World of Darkness or Call of Cthulhu might be better, just strip out some of the horror bits if that's not the kind of game you're using.

The DM loves the system and knows it well. I too have some love for it. I was mostly asking in this post if I'm limiting myself too much in an RP campaign by being something that isn't a Face or Skill Monkey

[GilesTheCleric]

The DM loves the system and knows it well. I too have some love for it. I was mostly asking in this post if I'm limiting myself too much in an RP campaign by being something that isn't a Face or Skill Monkey

I too run RP-heavy games (50%+ RP), and I think my players have either always been full casters, skillmonkeys, or ToB builds. Even the ToB characters have no trouble fitting in, since a lot of my games are politics, so it's more about player skill than about character skill. Given the typical op level of my players (reasonably high), a core mundane would still fall behind in my games, since they both wouldn't have anything interesting to do out of combat (No diplomacy, gather info, high natural int/ wis check, knowledges, forgery, sense motive, perception? Good luck with that), but also don't have any unique things to do generally.

For example, two sessions ago, the party was on a rebel-faction raft with some trade goods, and were attacked by kuo-toa. The young son of the captain jumped into the water, so the party went to save him. They did, but one of the characters, a swordsage, teleported back onto the raft rather than climbing on like everyone else. That sparked a neat RP moment. If my player had gone with a monk instead, then that moment of character development would have been missed (we learned that the character had a somewhat lazy personality).

In short, optimising can only help you express your character's personality better, by giving you more tools with which to do so.

[CartmanTuttle]

I've had a mix of players over the course of my games, and from experience, I can you tell that in an RP-based game, your class only has as much bearing on your character as you let it. I once played a Dwarf Rogue who was a charismatic Merchant on the run, and another Rogue who was a Halfling who was a surly Bounty Hunter. I've played "Hit stuff hard and keep healing allies when they need it" Paladin, and I've also played "Friendly Optimist who rolls Diplomacy first and draws sword later" Paladin. It's all how you choose to play. The class system helps define the basics of your character's mechanical functionality, and it's up to you how much you let those mechanics soak into your character's personality.

[Pleh]

Can you build a fighter, barbarian, paladin to be more skill / utility focused?

Ah. I thought you were saying skill monkey was spoken for, so you wanted to focus on martial. My mistake.

Though you could still go human, take Able Learner, and make the most of the little the fighter has.

Another good martial with more skills would be Ranger. Or any of the classes Giles mentioned. Keep in mind that skills can often be attempted untrained and in an RP heavy game, you should expect your character to be doing that sort of improvisation more often.

Trying to build a skillful mundane class with 2+int skill points is a mostly fruitless endeavour. Go with Rogue, Factotum, Aristocrat, or some other class with good skills.

[Quertus]

, I can you tell that in an RP-based game, your class only has as much bearing on your character as you let it.

Whole-hearted agreement.

Due to his unfailing faith, one of my characters became High Priest of his religion, without ever taking a single level of Cleric (or other divine caster class). Of course, the world blew up, and the survivors got infected with the antimagic plague, so there was little reason not to give a lay-follower the title at that point.

[Glowbeard]

Are there any classes with not so crappy X+INT per level? I know Scout has 8. I feel like I could get away with using some non-core but I would need a good reason (i.e. My characters personality fits it the most). I don't like Factorum or whatever btw. And some of the magic based classes aren't my taste

[Pleh]

If you want core only, you know the options. Core skill based characters are bard, rogue, and slightly less monk and ranger.

If noncore is an issue, scout won't help. It's not core.

I'm sorry you don't like factotum. How are we supposed to know it wasn't on the table here?

Edit: you know you can play the same class as another player, right? Nothing wrong with two rogues in the party.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Let's see...If you need a PHB class, go Ranger. That gets you weapons and plenty of skills, no problem. The Cityscape Web Enhancement, if allowed, offers some nice ways to trade wilderness-y abilities for more urban ones. (Voice of the City lets you fudge around language restrictions, for instance). If you're going out of the PHB, and limiting myself to things that aren't very objectionable...

• Scout has lots of skill points, but may be too similar to the Rogue.
• Marshal is actually a lot better than it gets credit for. Take Motivate Charisma and you'll be talky as all get-out, even with low skill points; add in Improved Trip and Motivate Strength and you can do some credible battlefield control as well. As long as you have a good Cha and enough Minor Auras, you can fake a whole lot of things.
• Swashbuckler is... not exactly good, but it's got full BAB, a good skill list, and a decent skill point count. Swashbuckler 3/Factotum 3 makes for a pretty good Int-heavy brawler.

If you go a little farther afield, Incarnates, Swordsages, Warblades, Lurks, and Psychic Rogues are all good options. Warlock can be neat but doesn't use a weapon too much; ditto Dragonfire Adept.

[tedcahill2]

For the best mix and RP and fighting ability I would say swashbuckler. Has good social skills and doesn't need to walk around in heavy armor all day cause they add their int to AC.

[Glowbeard]

Edit: you know you can play the same class as another player, right? Nothing wrong with two rogues in the party.

after I published this I found out we have another player who is a rogue

[TheCorsairMalac]

I haven't played 3.5 in a long time and I'm unfamiliar with what is fun and what kind of character would and wouldn't be good for that? Can a fighter or such a martial class even be useful or worth playing at that point?

Oh yeah!

Just because your character isn't an expert at diplomacy doesn't mean he's off-putting. People with a diplomacy bonus of 0 can still be friendly, courteous, and calmly insistent. He may not charm the countess out of her jewels, but he can still talk his way into a refund at the store, inspire cowards to defend their homes, and captured minions to rat out their boss's plans in exchange for release.

Intimidate can be used for good! Be the knight-in-shining armor that scares off creeps and thieves. Convince people of the terrifying evil of your enemy in order to garner aid. Get a job by explaining how tough and resourceful your group is. Use gruff discipline to keep a militia from breaking under pressure. Exaggerate legal repercussions to get info out of thugs. Negotiate peace with orcs by being too scary to attack. Silence everyone in a room with an angry shout.

With a fighter's Handle Animal skill you can track fugitives with your blood-hound, keep the party fed with your hunting hawk(or cheetah!), sell rare truffles you find using a trained sow(real thing, super funny when you think about it.), keep watch like a boss using your guard dogs, ride a griffon through the skies, woo the ladies with your beautiful pegasus, steal unattended items with your trained magpie, detect traps with your expendable rats, or wade into combat beside a pair of ferocious lions.

Put ranks in Craft(Traps) and go to town with razorwire, heat-seeking caltrops, and projectile armor spikes!

[Glowbeard]

okay so we've got to the fact that any class is fine.
what class has

• some skills / not 2+int
• able to have composite bow & a sword (like the idea of str&dex bowman)
• not a ranger

We roll stats so that shouldnt be a problem with multi stat dependancy (i.e. pally / monk)

[Grod_The_Giant]

okay so we've got to the fact that any class is fine.
what class has

• some skills / not 2+int
• able to have composite bow & a sword (like the idea of str&dex bowman)
• not a ranger

We roll stats so that shouldnt be a problem with multi stat dependancy (i.e. pally / monk)

In Core? Barbarian. Barbarian is the only class in Core that fits those criteron. You can always do something like start with a level of Rogue for a better grounding of skills and no illiteracy. If you can open up Unearthed Arcana options, you can try for a Thug Fighter as well.

Outside of core, everything I listed earlier works, though the Scout only gets shortswords/bows.

[BaronDoctor]

Daring Outlaw (Swashbuckler focused) might not be terrible for you. Swift Hunter might not be terrible on Urban Ranger (think detective).

[Gruftzwerg]

I would encourage an "illusion and mind-affecting" focused caster for this kind of campaign.

The mind affecting spells will help in most RP situations. Charm & some divination spells can sole most situations.
Illusions are really powerful in RP heavy campaigns. You just need to get creative.

Bard, cleric, sorcerer/wizard would all be fitting (while cleric needs some optimization to compete). Shadowcraft Mage could be a (maybe to) strong PRC depending on how far your campaign go lvl wise.

[Glowbeard]

After writing more about my character I think I have a better idea of what he is. Thanks for the tips tho guys!