Ducktales (2017)

[Alabenson]

I have to admit it's a reeeal peeve of mine when people decide without evidence what someone "probably" did, and use it to justify anger at them. Someone smack those idiot kids.

Normally I'd tend to agree with you, but in this particular instance I'm willing to let it slide for two major reasons. First, the trio is dealing with a major emotional blow, so they aren't in any real position to be thinking logically. More importantly, as you said it yourself, they're kids. Kids tend to act based on emotion without thinking things through, so in the wake of something like the revelation of the Spear of Selene I can believe that their first reaction is going to be to lash out at the individual they can most readily blame for what happened.

[brionl]

I would have taken that bet (and raised you 10 holy coins) if JadedDM hadn't spoiled the game. Heh.

That said, outside of one instance (Mark Beaks), the writing of this series has been consistently clever and quality, up to and including incorporating references to older shows in ways work well in the new setting (such as portraying the Gummi Bears as an ancient magical species with devastating secret, aka "just another day for Scrooge"). I really have trouble believing that they would ever have considered ending a season on this episode. You want the audience to spend the break giddy in anticipation, not depressed and dreading it. Heck, even a character flat out dying in the finale works well, because the upcoming reaction (and potential reversal) is stuck in the audience's mind for months. Here, there's no promise of anything to look forward to, except the inevitable regrouping. It's not a crash, it's a thud.

Setting the stage for a rise from the ashes, however, ending the season on a high note... that would be a perfect use of an episode like this.

Well, I guess I owe you 500 quatloos.

[Serenity]

Normally I'd tend to agree with you, but in this particular instance I'm willing to let it slide for two major reasons. First, the trio is dealing with a major emotional blow, so they aren't in any real position to be thinking logically. More importantly, as you said it yourself, they're kids. Kids tend to act based on emotion without thinking things through, so in the wake of something like the revelation of the Spear of Selene I can believe that their first reaction is going to be to lash out at the individual they can most readily blame for what happened.

Also, Louie is the only one who made an accusation based on what Scrooge 'probably' did. Huey and Dewey may have been a bit overbroad and unthinking of context, but both their accusations *are* pretty much based on what Scrooge actually did, so far as he told them.

[Ramza00]

I have to admit it's a reeeal peeve of mine when people decide without evidence what someone "probably" did, and use it to justify anger at them. Someone smack those idiot kids.

I will respond with more detail later, but lets get to the heart of the matter.

1) The adult here did not recognize the child's need for information (even though they know best for they think so, or because they are an adult). Children do have emotional / ego needs and these need to be met.
2) Thus the child is denied both sensory information, and "pattern information" that connects the sensory information and tells a greater tale, for these were denied from them.
3) Without this the child has to both search out sensory information and pattern information and try to create it themselves instead of getting it from the direct source.
4) Of course this information is often wrong, but it is like a puzzle they are trying to reassemble without seeing the original.
5) Aka this is a mess of the parent's own making. The parent did not recognize the children are also people, also humans with their own will, and if he does not share information they will seek out the information themselves in order to fill their own emotional / ego needs for all humans have emotion and ego needs for that is the nature of being human (instead of being a puppet.)

It is a matter of "good faith" by not even bothering to answer their needs, and diminishing their concerns you do not get to say "you are not giving me good faith and you are projecting onto me what I probably did."

Someone smack Scrooge for the kids are what 10? While Scrooge is roughly 150 years old (who knows how long he spent in that timeless dimension.)

[Reddish Mage]

Someone smack Scrooge for the kids are what 10? While Scrooge is roughly 150 years old (who knows how long he spent in that timeless dimension.)

Incidentally, how old is Della supposed to be, 24?

[huttj509]

Ok, at the end of the episode, when the scene pans up to the moon, the music shifts, just for a few seconds, to https://youtu.be/KF32DRg9opA?t=15s

[digiman619]

Incidentally, how old is Della supposed to be, 24?

Mid 30's. She's Donald's twin, Donald is confirmed via Frank Angones' tumblr to be slightly older than Launchpad, who is canonically 30 (his DOB was when the first DuckTales episode in 87 aired).

[Calemyr]

Well, I guess I owe you 500 quatloos.

Sadly, JadedDM ruined the bet, so I can't in good conscience take it. Shame, that. I could have paid off an old gambling debt with a Ferengi bartender and still had a little to spare... Curse you, JadedDM!

That said, a pretty good finale. A couple things caught me by surprise, but it mostly went how I thought it would. That doesn't make it bad, though, since I was expecting some good stuff.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Well, I think the odds of things ending remotely well for Lena have taken a serious nosedive after this episode.

Yeah, I'm going to call this one fulfilled. Blasted out of corporeal existence to become a parasite using Webby to stay 'alive' is not including in the phrase "ending well".

[Alabenson]

Yeah, I'm going to call this one fulfilled. Blasted out of corporeal existence to become a parasite using Webby to stay 'alive' is not including in the phrase "ending well".

On the other hand, Lena wasn't completely destroyed and she managed to decouple herself from Magica, so I guess we could call this progress at least.

[Calemyr]

Yeah, I'm going to call this one fulfilled. Blasted out of corporeal existence to become a parasite using Webby to stay 'alive' is not including in the phrase "ending well".

If Lena were actually a person, I would agree. Instead, she's a sentient shadow being. Or, perhaps more accurately, a physical avatar generated by a shadow being and given some level of autonomy and identity to operate in an environment the shadow was unwilling to (chilling with children). She wanted to be free, but I don't think she would have been properly equipped to exist like that. I don't think she was allowed to mature enough to be properly independent. By becoming Webby's shadow, she doesn't need to claim that independence immediately, and can continue to grow under the positive influence of Webby. When she's ready, she can count on Webby to let her free unlike Magicka. In the meantime, she is bound to someone who likes her and that she likes rather than an abusive witch who sees her as an expendable tool of revenge. There are worse fates.

From a storytelling perspective, however, it strikes me as a brilliant angle. Lena won't be any more prevalent a character than she used to be, but now her location doesn't need to be accounted for. She's wherever Webby is. The family is out scouting the Himalayas and Lena becomes relevant? There she is, fully up to date on events, without requiring having her set up throughout the episode. That means that Webby has access (knowingly or not) to a great deal more magical information (and possibly actual magic) than she rightfully should. Which is useful because the Family doesn't really have any magical experts - Webby has studied and Scrooge has experience fighting magic, but neither are mages.

In the hands of less competent writers, I would consider this a very bad idea. If used to excuse laziness, it would kill quality. In these hands, however? It allows far greater flexibility. A problem with a magical solution doesn't need to be foreshadowed by Lena appearing too early in the story and this could justifiably expand Webby's relevance without requiring a serious time skip. I mean, they've done a lot to improve her relevance, and she's infinitely more badass and entertaining than her Unca Scwooge incarnation, but she remains a primarily reactive character rather than a proactive one like the boys are.

[Strigon]

Boy oh boy, do I love this show.
Finally found someplace that had the finale up for viewing, and I loved every minute of it.

From my layman's perspective, having not ever seen the original Ducktales, and knowing nothing about that universe - Darkwing Duck, et cetera - I thought it was great! From what I've heard and read, Disney seems to have a very solid grasp on what people liked about the original, and have kept it where possible, and given it a respectful nod when not.

All of the main characters are absolutely fantastic; whenever we had an episode featuring any of them I was excited, rather than only the episodes about my favourites which is the norm for me. From what I saw of the original, Webby is far better in this iteration. I also appreciate giving the triplets unique identities - especially since it's the only way I could ever remember which one was Huey, Dewey, and Louie.

My only real gripe is the lack of a really gripping villain. Pretty much all of the villains are pretty much a joke - Glomgold is comically inept, the Beagle Boys are dumb momma's boy thugs, Mark Beaks certainly isn't villainous material, and while Don Karnage comes the closest, and is good every so often, a musical villain that returns frequently would get silly very quickly. The only proper villain, in my eyes, was Magicka, and she only really showed up for the finale!
I get that it's a kids show, and that's much to be expected, and the show certainly didn't flop because of it, but I'd like to see more villainous villains for season 2.



Oh, and fix your episode order, Disney; from what I've seen, you've got some of the best writers in the world on this reboot. Let them do their thing.

[Calemyr]

My only real gripe is the lack of a really gripping villain.

True. What the show really needs is a Shere Khan like character (from his rendition in the old TaleSpin show). Or Balalaika from Black Lagoon, but re-balanced for a kid's show. Someone of absolute power and menace, someone that can never be taken lightly, but whose agenda only rarely crosses our heroes. Most of the time it's an uneasy truce or even an awkward business partnership, but when there is a conflict of interest the conflict suddenly becomes very interesting. One second you're chatting casually over chilled apple juice (kid's show), but then the penny drops and the claws come out and it stops being a question of who will win (he will win), it's just a question of how badly you're going to lose. So every second he's on screen, you're on the edge of your seat because victory and defeat now hinge entirely on his whim.

Glomgold is comically inept, Beaks views things from a completely different frame of reference, Beagle is too pragmatic to present a real threat, and Magicka is now somewhere south of Black Arts Beagle on the arcane power index. The idea of a genuinely threatening presence (other than Gyro) would add a lot to the story.

[JadedDM]

From what I saw of the original, Webby is far better in this iteration. I also appreciate giving the triplets unique identities - especially since it's the only way I could ever remember which one was Huey, Dewey, and Louie.

Webby is so much better. Beakley, too.

And yeah, I just realized the other day that I now know which triplet is which (Huey = red, Dewey = blue, Louie = green) without having to look it up, which is something I never got straight after years of watching the old show.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Heck, in the old show they didn't need to bother giving them different colors. In fact, if it wasn't for the source material, they could've just combined the triplets into a single character without losing anything.

[Reddish Mage]

...this could justifiably expand Webby's relevance without requiring a serious time skip. I mean, they've done a lot to improve her relevance, and she's infinitely more badass and entertaining than her Unca Scwooge incarnation, but she remains a primarily reactive character rather than a proactive one like the boys are.

You speak of some other show. Webby is by far this series breakout star. She’s been the favorite in the weekly Disney online polls every time before they simply stopped the contest. Webby abilities put her several steps above what the triplets can do. She has serious adventuring skills, almost always has relevant book knowledge, and there is more episodes about her than any other character. These episodes include the Lena-arc and she gets to do the big finish in the grand finale.

Webby is reactionary the way any protagonist is reactionary. It tends to be the anatogonists that bring the protagonist out of statis and force growth (see Magica in the finale). But Webby is plenty active! She was the one to encourage and assist Dewey in his quest to find info on his mom, and then she pushed him to share it with his triplets. She has provided the impetus or assisted in pushing many of the adventures, even providing the solutions that many episodes. Remember how she resolved the puzzles in The Great Dime Chase, or got rid of the Beagles (twice) in early episodes, that’s just for a few at the beginning. For a later episode, remember when she got gumi juice and took down the villain? That too, was a Webby episode (with Scrooge!).

Webby has also had episodes pairing her with each of the triplets and Scrooge. She’s basically the one character that has gotten along with EVERYONE. Her tendency to let other characters take the spotlight on occasion is practically the only thing keeping her away from full-on Mary Suedom.

The triplets have actual personalities now, but even all together the three stock personality types have a hard time competing with Webby for relevance. Webby is so relevant to the show that the real problem they have is how to keep the show from becoming the Webby show.

[Ramza00]

Webby has also had episodes pairing her with each of the triplets and Scrooge. She’s basically the one character that has gotten along with EVERYONE. Her tendency to let other characters take the spotlight on occasion is practically the only thing keeping her away from full-on Mary Suedom.

The triplets have actual personalities now, but even all together the three stock personality types have a hard time competing with Webby for relevance.

As much as it was great for Dewey to get the Don Karnage episode where he got to be the center of attention, in some ways Webby needs a similar episode come Season 2. She is always giving to the other people and no one is considering what she wants, how to make her happy, how to be a good friend to Webby. Instead Webby is always being the good friend to the point she is almost co-dependent. (Is co-dependent the right word choice here? I do not know...I am trying to say something that I understand very well in my mind but finding the words is hard.)

Who is Webby? What is her identity? Webby seems to always create her identity around someone who is external to herself and Webby needs external feedback, external motivation, external self acceptance or she beats herself up in response. Webby is a person who may be able to do this fine at 10 but if she continues to do this she is going to have emotional problems later in life. I am reminded of another "plunk animated character from my childhood."

[Reddish Mage]

As much as it was great for Dewey to get the Don Karnage episode where he got to be the center of attention, in some ways Webby needs a similar episode come Season 2. She is always giving to the other people and no one is considering what she wants, how to make her happy, how to be a good friend to Webby. Instead Webby is always being the good friend to the point she is almost co-dependent. (Is co-dependent the right word choice here? I do not know...I am trying to say something that I understand very well in my mind but finding the words is hard.)

If you are showing us Harley Quinn co-dependent is the proper term, if not the most apt for Webby.

Dewey gets to go off on his own because that’s a particular Dewey thing to do. The only one else in the show to do that is Scrooge, not even Louie or Huey does that (except in Day of The Only Child). The lack of a solo adventure doesn’t make Webb a co-dependent for being a co-pilot (and she took the initiative enough helping Dewey out...it seems like she was in the driver seat).

Webby can be emotionally needy, which comes from never having any friends and being exceptionally insecure. That could change now that Lena is literally a part of her. However, Webby still doesn’t overrely on any single one of her friends, not does she abandon her principles and independent personality for acceptance. For a co-dependent and those sorts of behavior see Harley Quinn and how much she depends on the Joker to define herself. The Webby gets close to changing herself for another is with Lena, and things happen so Lena is the one who is changed by that friendship.

Webby is fine.

[Calemyr]

You speak of some other show. Webby is by far this series breakout star. She’s been the favorite in the weekly Disney online polls every time before they simply stopped the contest. Webby abilities put her several steps above what the triplets can do. She has serious adventuring skills, almost always has relevant book knowledge, and there is more episodes about her than any other character. These episodes include the Lena-arc and she gets to do the big finish in the grand finale.

Webby is reactionary the way any protagonist is reactionary. It tends to be the anatogonists that bring the protagonist out of statis and force growth (see Magica in the finale). But Webby is plenty active! She was the one to encourage and assist Dewey in his quest to find info on his mom, and then she pushed him to share it with his triplets. She has provided the impetus or assisted in pushing many of the adventures, even providing the solutions that many episodes. Remember how she resolved the puzzles in The Great Dime Chase, or got rid of the Beagles (twice) in early episodes, that’s just for a few at the beginning. For a later episode, remember when she got gumi juice and took down the villain? That too, was a Webby episode (with Scrooge!).

Webby has also had episodes pairing her with each of the triplets and Scrooge. She’s basically the one character that has gotten along with EVERYONE. Her tendency to let other characters take the spotlight on occasion is practically the only thing keeping her away from full-on Mary Suedom.

The triplets have actual personalities now, but even all together the three stock personality types have a hard time competing with Webby for relevance. Webby is so relevant to the show that the real problem they have is how to keep the show from becoming the Webby show.

You mistake me. Is Webby awesome? Yes. Is she popular? Yes. They did indeed take the annoying tag along token girl into an entertaining badass that is the single best character in the series.

That said, she doesn't do anything without outside motivation. She's still the tag along. The boys decide to go to a pizza place, she tags along. The boys decides to play Nerf, she throws herself 200% into it and treats it as a role-playing exercise. Dewey wants to learn about Della*, she throws herself into it. Beakly wants to train her on some secretive island, she goes along with it. In a strange way, despite the show frequently being about Webby and her antics, it's also never about Webby. What she wants for herself never factors into it, beyond her need to belong.

This doesn't make her a bad character by any stretch of the imagination., mind. Whatever motivates a scene, Webby's enthusiasm and terrifying competence will make the scene shine. But that doesn't mean she doesn't have room to grow. I want her to "eat a hamburger", as it were, not because something is happening, but because she just decides to. Lena's shadow has the potential to give her that. This situation opens up the chance for her to decide motivations for herself. Wait, I can learn magic now? "Oh, quack yes." Or maybe "My best friend in a better place than ever in her life, but she's still a prisoner - even if she's my prisoner. I will save her from that." In this way, it becomes about what Webby decides to do rather than her just going along with other peoples' decisions. And I would like to see that once in a while.

* Dewey, like Webby in this scenario, is still being a little reactive as it's an outside event that kicks their mission off, but the motivation was entirely on Dewey's side. There's nothing about that picture that demanded action, no indication that any action would serve any larger purpose, it was just Dewey's curiosity and need to know that pushed him forward.

[Reddish Mage]

I think you are greatly misremembering how the episodes play out.

In "The Spear of Selene" its Webby, not Dewey, that decides to go after the mysetery of Dewey's mom.

In "Terror of the Terrafirmians" its Webby and Lena leading Huey on an adventure he is reluctant to go on, with Webby constantly making the point that the terrafirmians are real.

Moreover, in "From the Confidential Casefiles of Agent 22" Webby doesn't just tag along. She sneaks her way in, while Scrooge goes after her aunt.

The earliest episode "Woo-oo!" has Webby is the one who approaches the boys and shows the boys her research on Scrooge and then Scrooge's artifact to impress them. Then they mess things up playing with the artifacts. She's not tagging along, they are entering her world at her invitation, then proceed to make a mess.

Webby initiates making friendship braclets with Lena in "Jaw$" as well as their involvement with the shark because that's what Webby wants to do.

Webby doesn't have her "own" desires only in the sense that much of what she wants is to understand and experience Scrooge's manor, his myseteries, adventures, and his artifacts. In many ways the triplets are exactly alike in this respect. However, Webby, unlike the triplets, doesn't have expectations on Scrooge's stuff, so in this way she's an outsider. That doesn't stop her from having more involvement with all the cool stuff going on than anybody, its only more conceptual then physical. She's doing exactly what she wants to.

[Rogar Demonblud]

The earliest episode "Woo-oo!" has Webby is the one who approaches the boys

That's an interesting way to summarize assault, abduction, illegal restraint and interrogation.

[Reddish Mage]

That's an interesting way to summarize assault, abduction, illegal restraint and interrogation.

...or as Calemyr referred to it as Webby playing “tag along.”

[Calemyr]

I think you are greatly misremembering how the episodes play out.

In "The Spear of Selene" its Webby, not Dewey, that decides to go after the mysetery of Dewey's mom.

In "Terror of the Terrafirmians" its Webby and Lena leading Huey on an adventure he is reluctant to go on, with Webby constantly making the point that the terrafirmians are real.

Moreover, in "From the Confidential Casefiles of Agent 22" Webby doesn't just tag along. She sneaks her way in, while Scrooge goes after her aunt.

The earliest episode "Woo-oo!" has Webby is the one who approaches the boys and shows the boys her research on Scrooge and then Scrooge's artifact to impress them. Then they mess things up playing with the artifacts. She's not tagging along, they are entering her world at her invitation, then proceed to make a mess.

Webby initiates making friendship braclets with Lena in "Jaw$" as well as their involvement with the shark because that's what Webby wants to do.

Webby doesn't have her "own" desires only in the sense that much of what she wants is to understand and experience Scrooge's manor, his myseteries, adventures, and his artifacts. In many ways the triplets are exactly alike in this respect. However, Webby, unlike the triplets, doesn't have expectations on Scrooge's stuff, so in this way she's an outsider. That doesn't stop her from having more involvement with all the cool stuff going on than anybody, its only more conceptual then physical. She's doing exactly what she wants to.

I don't mean to overstate an observation as some iron rule. Tag-along is just the impression she's given me.

That said... Her interrogation of the boys was directly caused by them coming in to her home, not her seeking them out. The Spear of Selene was an extension of a quest Dewey already laid out in the library, she just had a new idea on how to pursue it. The Terror of the Terrafirmians was initiated by Lena as a means to resolve a debate between Webby and Huey*. And her involving herself in the Agent 22 story was because her grandmother was in active danger. It's not being proactive when there's already a ticking clock on the stage.

Actually, the Spear of Selene is a reasonable example of being proactive, if I'm honest. It's not her desires or agenda that she's pursuing, but she's actively looking for ways to progress the mystery. It's a rare exception, but it is a nice one.

I do have to point out, though, that I'm not complaining. Really, I'm not. If Webby was proactive as well as badass and competent, this wouldn't be DuckTales, it'd be "The Webby Show Starring Webby... and a couple of sidekicks..." That might be a good show for a couple episodes, but it'd get old fast. I was simply considering that being bonded with Lena could give her some opportunity to stretch beyond her normal constraints without her taking over.

* Huh. It's really true. I remembered it was Huey who was part of that. I never would have remembered that in the old series for numerous reasons. This show is pretty cool.

[Reddish Mage]

Your notion of “being proactive” and having “her own motivations” is something different from what those words mean.

You mean something like Webby acting on her own self-focused desires that don’t involve anyone else. Webby's desires usually involve geeking out over a good mystery or Scrooge's history and other subjects of Scrooge studies. She shown quite a bit of interest in what the group was doing on various adventures (say "The Living Mummies of Toth-Ra"), but unlike Louie her interest doesn't translate into a need to take souveniers. She is the group academic.

That's how Webby gets involved with the others. Someone can be proactive and yet have desires that are other focused. Most of the triplets are into the prospect of adventure, but want different things from them. Dewey wants to leap headfirst into adventure and danger, Louie wants stuff, Huey ...apparently wants to earn a junior woodchuck merit badge. Webby wants the knowledge and experience. She is exactly like the others.

Webby is plenty proactive, her motives are also her own, she just isn't all that self-focused. Again, though she was the one who got Lena to go around making friendship bracelets when she would otherwise be sneaking in to get Scrooge's #1 dime. She was the one who literally captures the triplets so she can have a conversation with them. Webby does things for Webby, she just doesn't spend a lot of time on her own, nor does the boys (who are far more self-absorbed) go spend time going after her.

But there is a good reason for this, she can be (and is) proactive with this still being Ducktales, but if she's all about going off on her own adventures (even if she drags along the cast somehow) it starts to become the Webby show. A few Webby-centric episodes are fine in a season, but they are already walking a fine line by giving Webby skills and wisdom exceeding her aunt or the triplets put together. Too much more positive attention on Webby and she's a genuine Mary Sue.

[archon_huskie]

Look, if you want to pretend there's a great deal of scientific rigor in a show about anthropomorphic waterfowl, more power to you. I'll just point out that a minisub has a maximum speed of maybe 10 knots, so 18 hours to Atlantis means that it's less than 200 miles from Duckburg. Also, there's no reason for Scrooge to have a money bin larger than a single stall garage because there just isn't that much gold bullion in the world and child services would've taken the triplets from Donald within a month.

Well let's dumb the science down for you. The Sun Rises in the East. The Money Bin is on an Island off the coast of Duckburg. Scrooge can see the Money Bin from his bedroom window. In Daytrip of Doom, Scrooge opens his window and his shadow appears directly behind him. So his window faces East, the Money Bin is East of Duckburg, Meaning the ocean is East of Duckburg. Duckburg is on the East coast.

[Rogar Demonblud]

The setting bible explicitly sets Duckburg in Calisota, on the 'Pacific' coast. So what you're saying is the animators can't get basic facts right.

[Ramza00]

The setting bible explicitly sets Duckburg in Calisota, on the 'Pacific' coast. So what you're saying is the animators can't get basic facts right.

Who says the earth rotates the same direction wise in Ducktales, who says the sun rises in the east and sets in the west? Perhaps Ducktales world is the Counter-Earth / Antichthon that specific Greek Philosphers thought of. (It would be better than the Spider-man sequel I got in the 90s.)

[Reddish Mage]

Counter-Earth? How absurdist....oh you’re being sarcastic.

[Rater202]

Who says the earth rotates the same direction wise in Ducktales, who says the sun rises in the east and sets in the west? Perhaps Ducktales world is the Counter-Earth / Antichthon that specific Greek Philosphers thought of. (It would be better than the Spider-man sequel I got in the 90s.)

If it helps, Spider-Man Unlimited was not meant to be a sequel to the 90s Animated Series. It was presented as such in advertising, but was not written as such.

also, that Spider-Man was one of the ones that was killed off in Spider-Verse.

[Ramza00]

Counter-Earth? How absurdist....oh you’re being sarcastic.

Not really absurdist but poking fun at the super fan that just can't accept mistakes are made in animation but also film. For example in Star Wars Return of the Jedi Vader's Red Lightsaber is having the beam come out of the wrong side when Vader throws his saber at Luke to destroy the catwalk Luke is in.

-----

But yeah I was poking fun, but there are also other explanations for this obvious mistake that would not make this obvious mistake into a mistake. For example Duckberg can be a Peninsula surrounded on 3 sides by water. Well sometimes even if you are on the "west coast" due to the "peninsula nature" that land can have where there is an island on the east side even though the bigger ocean is on the west side. For example this occurs with San Francisco Bay where the bay is circular and there are two peninsulas on either side of the bay. In the bay there is also an island Alcatraz. So for example Scrooge's house could be on one of the peninsulas, the money bin is on the island in the center of the bay (like Alcatraz) to the untrained eye the bay looks like the ocean for it is so large it fills Scrooge's field of vision yet the main ocean is really behind him on the other side of the house.