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  1. - Top - End - #271
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIX: Ro, Ro, Ro Your Boute

    Quote Originally Posted by boomwolf View Post
    It can be stuck in the snow, the mud, the spawn, the sand, the street-whatever terrain type the rest of the army is using.
    Guy in my meta just painted the whole arm in texture paint.
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  2. - Top - End - #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomwolf View Post
    Why is the arm such an issue though?

    It can be stuck in the snow, the mud, the spawn, the sand, the street-whatever terrain type the rest of the army is using.
    Because it would conflict/contrast with any other dead army parts on the rest of the army's bases.

    Say you have a Prodigal Sons warband with Eldar/Harlequin parts to represent the war between Ahriman and the forces of the Black Library, then Magnus comes along with a Space Wolf Dreadnought arm on his base. Unless you go out of your way to deal with it, his base will never really fit with the rest of the army, and getting an exact fit to some new detailing will rarely really work out.

    The arm would be less of a problem in my eyes if it was a plain dreadnought arm, rather than one with details found only among the Wolves, like their fetishes and diamond patterns, because then it could be any Space Marine chapter without needing any modifications beyond it's paint job, but ideally it would be just a rock or Magnus would have both feet planted on the ground, so he would automatically be able to fit in with any basing scheme.

    It's a 'Your Dudes' thing. Some players warbands have already been modeled to fight something that doesn't mesh with the Woof arm, and I feel it would have been better design for Magnus not to have a base with such a specific enemy part modeled on it, and feel the same applies to a lot of characters, like the Assassins and the Eldar.

    EDIT: Also applies to Raptors come to think of it.
    Last edited by Grim Portent; 2017-03-20 at 06:59 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIX: Ro, Ro, Ro Your Boute

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim Portent View Post
    EDIT: Also applies to Raptors come to think of it.
    Oh man this is infuriating. I've had to design my entire Night Lords basing scene around their propensity for playing stepping-stones.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIX: Ro, Ro, Ro Your Boute

    This is why I went out of my way to buy a bunch of old Necromunda bulkheads a while ago; they're great for chopping up into beams, scrap and pieces of archeotech that various miniatures - Raptors, Assault Marines, Daemons and so on - can be leaping off, or clinging to, or otherwise interacting with in a way that doesn't require a rock or one of a multitude of dead Space Marines to be standing upon - kind of like how the Space Hulk Genestealers are perched on various bits of the ship.

    Possibly one could look on eBay for a "scrap" tank or old scenery piece that has been butchered and is being sold cheap, and use it in the same way? At least then everyone will be stood on the same sort of "old metal girders" and will match appropriately.
    Last edited by Wraith; 2017-03-21 at 03:25 AM.
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  5. - Top - End - #275
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIX: Ro, Ro, Ro Your Boute

    More importantly, direct confirmation of the AoS'ification of 40k that every one knew was coming. Movement stats, Ap replaced by penetration value, AoS combat res. Many people are saying it's a combo of 2nd and 5th.

    Plus the whoops of claiming the DG as the 7th legion instead of the... 14th?
    Last edited by Drasius; 2017-03-23 at 01:50 AM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIX: Ro, Ro, Ro Your Boute

    There are some positives in that article. Command points look fun - sure they're just another system to be gamed, but if they do what they're trying to that will be good. And Points values don't seem to be going away.

    I'm trying to be optimistic.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIX: Ro, Ro, Ro Your Boute

    While I don't know about combat resolution and initiative (it seems like you'll get a bonus on the charge and otherwise it would be the same?) the rest is all positive.

    Movement Stat allows more intervals than the current unit type tied movement without special rule clutter and AP replaced by penetration is one of the most desired changes for years for a good reason-the AP system is bad.

    Doesn't seem like AoSfication, only taking a few pointers from it about the things that worked well.
    And to be honest, these features existed in WFB before AoS was a thing.


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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIX: Ro, Ro, Ro Your Boute

    Where are folks getting the stats from? I'm not seeing them in the lunked article.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIX: Ro, Ro, Ro Your Boute

    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    More importantly, direct confirmation of the AoS'ification of 40k that every one knew was coming. Movement stats, Ap replaced by penetration value, AoS combat res. Many people are saying it's a combo of 2nd and 5th.
    Psykers having set powers? Please?

    Well I'll withhold judgement until I see it. Though GW seems to have a weird idea of what is thematic. Why and how is charging units attacking first more thematic? I'm more or less neutral to the rule itself, other then it being a possible buff to melee (no more needing grenades to ignore cover maybe?)
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIX: Ro, Ro, Ro Your Boute

    Quote Originally Posted by Tome View Post
    Where are folks getting the stats from? I'm not seeing them in the lunked article.
    Stuff from Adepticon. Try this one:
    https://www.warhammer-community.com/...rom-adepticon/

    My question is pretty simple: what are "Command Points", exactly? Have they been used in other games before (GW or not)?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIX: Ro, Ro, Ro Your Boute

    GW used them in a showcase game a little while back. You build your army in a certain way, and you get points that you can spend - on dice re-rolls, on autopassing reserves (i think?) and similar bonuses.
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  13. - Top - End - #283
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIX: Ro, Ro, Ro Your Boute

    The Morale rules they talk about seem overly punative to horde armies. Also really sloppy. The AP changes i could live with, i just really don't wanna see AoS's fixed To Wound value.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIX: Ro, Ro, Ro Your Boute

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidhawk View Post
    Stuff from Adepticon. Try this one:
    https://www.warhammer-community.com/...rom-adepticon/

    My question is pretty simple: what are "Command Points", exactly? Have they been used in other games before (GW or not)?
    Actually I tell a lie - an implementation of them is in Rise Of The Primarch. Currently you get 3+1 per detachment/formation (one can assume this is the bit that will be replaced) and can spend them on the following:

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIX: Ro, Ro, Ro Your Boute

    Individual Movement Values and Saving Throw modifiers were removed from 2nd edition at the advent of 3rd because it slashed confusion between similar, though asymmetrical armies and removed various steps of book-keeping. I can't imagine why bringing those things back, now that the game uses more models per game from a broader selection of armies and units than ever before, is thought of as a good thing.

    I've also seen a rumour that the rules for Armageddon: Shadow War are going to be a prototype for 8th edition, which suggests that Range Modifers to different weapons may be making a return. I genuinely struggle to think of something worse to bring back, except perhaps the old armour Penetration and Locational Hit Charts for vehicles.
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  16. - Top - End - #286
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIX: Ro, Ro, Ro Your Boute

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Individual Movement Values and Saving Throw modifiers were removed from 2nd edition at the advent of 3rd because it slashed confusion between similar, though asymmetrical armies and removed various steps of book-keeping. I can't imagine why bringing those things back, now that the game uses more models per game from a broader selection of armies and units than ever before, is thought of as a good thing.
    I think the ideas is that with all information one needs in one place in the unit entry, players would have to cross-reference rules a bit less. If it's part of reducing the special rule bloat I'm not that opposed to it.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIX: Ro, Ro, Ro Your Boute

    Having just returned to the game after having stopped after 2e I'm genuinely confused, many of these new rules seem to add in cumbersome tracking and complexity, those very things which I thought they'd greatly improved upon. I'm now curious which of these will be part of the "simple" ruleset and which will end up in the "traditional" ruleset that's been rumored.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brookshw View Post
    Having just returned to the game after having stopped after 2e I'm genuinely confused, many of these new rules seem to add in cumbersome tracking and complexity, those very things which I thought they'd greatly improved upon. I'm now curious which of these will be part of the "simple" ruleset and which will end up in the "traditional" ruleset that's been rumored.
    There was a big overhaul of rules between 2e and 3e that apparently did greatly improve on the previous rules, but starting with (late) 5e a lot more granularity was added to the system that maybe wasn't too necessary (but then I started in early 4e so I'm probably biased). Personally I wouldn't mind seeing things like Overwatch and random charge distances go, and some of the unit entries toned down down a bit.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIX: Ro, Ro, Ro Your Boute

    Derandomizing charging (even if only to a degree, like the new Movement value +1d6 being your charge range) and allowing for failed charges to still move forward would be nice. Overwatch makes too much sense to me for it to go. Consolidation of special rules would also be a Cool ThingTM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIX: Ro, Ro, Ro Your Boute

    Originally posted by Warhammer Community
    So we’ll soon be introducing the same 3 ways to play – open, narrative and matched play – to the 41st Millennium.
    As long as there is some admission that some units are better than others - a.k.a; Points - then I don't care about the other two. I've literally not touched the other two modes of play in General's Handbook, there's a fairly decent chance I wont touch them in 40K, either.

    A mechanism to reward players who structure their army like their in-world counterparts, with rerolls and cool army specific rules throughout the game.
    Is that in addition to, or instead of, Command Benefits? Better yet, just tell me if I should burn my Codecies at some point.

    We think the Move value should come back. No more default unit types. Every model should have cool bespoke rules. Not only would that be more fun, but it’ll mean you will only need to learn the rules for your models.
    I agree with the part I emphasised. I do not think switching up Movement values is a way to do that.

    Armour save modifiers. This topic comes up almost as often as Sisters of Battle… so we’re going to bring them back. Every weapon will have its place in your army and better represent how you imagine them working in your head.
    Is it Rend? Just say it's Rend.

    Charging units should fight first. It’s just more thematic. So we’re hoping to work this out as well. It will reward tactically outmaneuvering your opponent. You can dictate the combats rather than being entirely Initiative based. You control who swings first.
    So it's Age of Sigmar order of combats? Just say you're moving to Age of Sigmar order of combats.

    Its no longer all or nothing, and it affects everyone. We’re thinking of replacing break tests with a simple mechanic. Roll a D6, add that to the number of models your unit has lost this turn, subtract your Leadership and take that many additional casualties.
    So it's Bravery. Just say it's Bravery.

    So, yeah. Looks like a Sigmarisation of 40K. I don't know why they would do such a thing (as I've stated previously). But the video linked on the same page involves square bases, so maybe it's all an elaborate troll?

    But, if there's points and the Psychic phase is balanced, then I probably wont care. Age of Sigmar isn't even bad. I don't know why they'd throw the baby out with the bathwater, but I like Sigmar well enough (again; 9th Age and other things do not exist in my meta).
    Just...Are my Codecies going to be compatible with 8th Ed.? Is Gathering Storm? Why should I be buying models between now and the release of 8th?
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  21. - Top - End - #291
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIX: Ro, Ro, Ro Your Boute

    One thing that goes unstated is how much they'll be changing the profiles. There's no mention of flat to-wound rolls, deteriorating wounds, consolidating vehicle profiles... not that that necessarily means it won't do those things, but maybe S/T will stay: at which point it would be easier to keep the current profiles, add Move the same way they added Hull Points (via errata) and keep a "Legacy" set of universal special rules until they're all gone.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIX: Ro, Ro, Ro Your Boute

    What I don't get is why they are making 40k similar to aos. Was it that popular? Really? I don't want to play two games that are similar. It's the whole reason I never played aos. Skirmishing was already done by 40k. Fantasy had something unique.

    I'm just going to sell all of my secondary armies off now anyway. I feel like they will lose value in 8th.

    I'm interested to see what happens to 30k now with the new rules coming out. I hope that too doesn't get changed drastically.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIX: Ro, Ro, Ro Your Boute

    Quote Originally Posted by LeSwordfish View Post
    One thing that goes unstated is how much they'll be changing the profiles. There's no mention of flat to-wound rolls, deteriorating wounds, consolidating vehicle profiles... not that that necessarily means it won't do those things, but maybe S/T will stay: at which point it would be easier to keep the current profiles, add Move the same way they added Hull Points (via errata) and keep a "Legacy" set of universal special rules until they're all gone.
    Indeed. As much as this gives an insight into how the game (might) change, it doesn't tell us in what way it's going to stay the same.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIX: Ro, Ro, Ro Your Boute

    I really hate that change with charging. Just to start with its really stupid, and furthermore it more or less makes initiative into a dump stat.

    Of course, im not really certain i trust GW to correctly manage armor save modifiers either. I do recall the games with it, and it kinda felt like anything less than a 3+ save did not matter.
    On the other hand it might be a needed change to melee, where i dont like the "either you got a AP 2 weapon, or else your trash" bit either.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIX: Ro, Ro, Ro Your Boute

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Of course, im not really certain i trust GW to correctly manage armor save modifiers either. I do recall the games with it, and it kinda felt like anything less than a 3+ save did not matter.
    To be honest that's not that different from 40K now.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIX: Ro, Ro, Ro Your Boute

    I could see penetration modifiers as a positive thing if they didn't go overboard with it. Armor should still mean something, but it shouldn't be nigh-impenetrable either. IMO, the current state of the game is a little odd in that armor is both hugely important to list building and ineffective in play when anyone starts bringing big guns. You need 4+ to really compete, but there are soooooo many things that just straight up negate that. It makes sense to me that carapace armor would be less effective against a bolter round than a lasgun.

    EDIT: Obviously, armor wouldn't necessarily be all that useful in such a weaponized sci-fi universe, so I'm mainly talking about just the tabletop and not the fluff perspective.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIX: Ro, Ro, Ro Your Boute

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Baratheon View Post
    EDIT: Obviously, armor wouldn't necessarily be all that useful in such a weaponized sci-fi universe, so I'm mainly talking about just the tabletop and not the fluff perspective.
    Fluffwise it's actually meant to be more effective than it is on tabletop.

    Power Armour is meant to be so durable even plasma has a very hard time damaging it enough to kill the wearer, but in tabletop it just melts it like butter. Fluffwise the whole reason plasma overheats is because they turn it to max settings, otherwise it can't reliably kill things like marines.

    The idea in the background and novels is that good defensive tech is mostly insanely better than the affordable/mass producible ranged weapons, and that it's often easier to get in high quantities than the weapons that can harm it (except power weapons.) But in tabletop most guns just shred even terminators.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIX: Ro, Ro, Ro Your Boute

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky S View Post
    What I don't get is why they are making 40k similar to aos. Was it that popular? Really? I don't want to play two games that are similar. It's the whole reason I never played aos. Skirmishing was already done by 40k. Fantasy had something unique.
    This.

    I don't have a problem with AoS - I have barely played it, but I enjoyed what I did play and I particularly liked the way that it could transfer back and forth with small games, such as Silver Tower (which WAS a really good example of how to change rules for the better when relaunching an older game).

    I do feel, however, that a lot of AoS players started out in AoS because they didn't have a choice; they have $1,000+ worth of toy soldiers that they could either use in AoS, or else switch to another gaming system like Kings of War or 9th Age and never again be able to set foot in a GW store where all their friends and peers or.... or chuck it all in the trash. I genuinely wonder if, should 40k get AoSigmar'd, a lot more players will instead switch to 30k and keep "their own" rules rather than swap across, since they DO in fact have a choice that WHFB players didn't.

    [EDIT] inb4 "you can still play 7th edition, no one is stopping you from doing so if that's what you want". That's always been the case, but it doesn't change the fact that people said the same thing about WHFB 8th Edition, which almost immediately died off and only the most die-hard of grognards still have anything to do with it, let alone there being anything even slightly resembling competitive play.
    Last edited by Wraith; 2017-03-23 at 11:33 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIX: Ro, Ro, Ro Your Boute

    But, if there's points and the Psychic phase is balanced, then I probably wont care. Age of Sigmar isn't even bad.


    I don't know what the 40K equivalent of the ETC for WFB might be, but they should get started on a 9th Age-esque 50K now.
    Last edited by LCP; 2017-03-23 at 11:42 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIX: Ro, Ro, Ro Your Boute

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    I genuinely wonder if, should 40k get AoSigmar'd, a lot more players will instead switch to 30k and keep "their own" rules rather than swap across, since they DO in fact have a choice that WHFB players didn't.
    I suspect that this is what will happen. Forge World will scrabble together a 30k ruleset based on 7th ed, everyone who doesn't want to play new rules will just play that using their old model rules. The grognards that GW doesn't really want don't complain too much and buy the expensive resin models, the kids that GW DOES want play 40k Of Sigmar, everybody is broadly happy.
    - Avatar by LCP -

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