Overwatch: Boop!

[Togath]

"...and become the hero we need!"
-Efi Oladele

Welcome to the second Overwatch thread on Gitp!
Overwatch is a team based online first person shooter by Blizzard(of WoW, Diablo, and Starcraft fame) in the vein of games like Team Fortress 2 with some MOBA-ish elements, including a large roster of characters, each with a variety of abilities rather than the more common gun choices.
It's currently available for Microsoft Windows, PS4, and Xbox One, and frequently gets updates, whether balance patches or more exciting additions such as new heroes or cosmetic items(skins, collectable sprays, emotes, and more).

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[Rising Phoenix]

mmm tasty new thread smell....

[Pendulous]

So, based on the so-far accurate leak from January, we got a Mei short or some kind of story coming next. I cannot get hyped enough.

[Silverraptor]

So, based on the so-far accurate leak from January, we got a Mei short or some kind of story coming next. I cannot get hyped enough.

Really? I'm hyped now too!

[JosephSamurai]

The thread is definitely tasty, but I have to add one sour thing: BASTION. This damn robot creature is now so annoying in sub 3000 rating... And don't tell me to "counterpick" him - Genji barely does anything to any decent bastion player. In my ten placement games, I have encountered bastion 9 out of 10 times and he was babysat by ana/mercy/zen each time. I'm pretty sure he got to OP this time.

[Mutazoia]

The thread is definitely tasty, but I have to add one sour thing: BASTION. This damn robot creature is now so annoying in sub 3000 rating... And don't tell me to "counterpick" him - Genji barely does anything to any decent bastion player. In my ten placement games, I have encountered bastion 9 out of 10 times and he was babysat by ana/mercy/zen each time. I'm pretty sure he got to OP this time.

He's getting nerfed a bit, so cool yer jets. And those Bastions must be lucky, or playing with friends, as I can never get anyone to watch my back when I play Bastion...everybody on my team(s) seems to think we're playing team death match and goes all special snowflake, running around by themselves.

Hell, most of the time I can't seem to get my team(s) to actually take the damned objective in KotH. No matter who I play, I end up being the only one (or 1 of 2) actually trying to take the objective...

[Silverraptor]

I fond Hanzo pretty effective at Bastion. Find a corner and lob arrows around it at him if he's sieged up in turret mode. If nothing else, it will force him to move.

[Morphic tide]

I got a Play of the Game as Bastion on Temple of Anubis. It was, apparently, for killing a Phara as she used her ultimate. Not killing four enemies in ten seconds. Mind you, this was on offense. Temple of Anubis just has an amazing firing line for Bastions on either side.

Seriously, it actually had a little subtitle for Play of the Game for "Shutdown," which is what the game uses for when you kill someone as they are using their ultimate.

[The_Jackal]

The thread is definitely tasty, but I have to add one sour thing: BASTION. This damn robot creature is now so annoying in sub 3000 rating... And don't tell me to "counterpick" him - Genji barely does anything to any decent bastion player. In my ten placement games, I have encountered bastion 9 out of 10 times and he was babysat by ana/mercy/zen each time. I'm pretty sure he got to OP this time.

Genji is not a counter-pick to a half-awake Bastion. He will just wait out your deflect and blow you away. A good Bastion counter is anyone who can shoot him from outside 50 meters and still do respectable damage. Even if he's being pocketed, he's totally immobile, and you can burn them down, or, you know, kill the healer first.

[Velaryon]

Welcome to the second Overwatch thread on Gitp!

Third actually. Here was the first one, and here the second. I had a hard time finding a link to the first one - I had to keep going though to prove to myself that I wasn't crazy.

[Geno9999]

Eh, Bastion hasn't affected my games much. Mostly because I main D.va, so I can just glare at Bastion with Defense Matrix while the rest of my team shreds him up in catharsis. Or use Defense Matrix to negate the majority of the oh so scary Nano-Tank.

Roadhog on the other hand, am I glad that his hook got re-tweaked so that he doesn't quite one-shot the MEKA. And that I can now wave Defense Matrix over my teammates to save them from the follow up shot.

Defense Matrix is an awesome skill is basically what I'm saying here.

[The_Jackal]

There's lots of ways to counteract Bastion, is the point, and now that he's only 375 effective health in Sentry mode, he's not nearly the beast he was when he was over 450. The Reinhardt/Bastion combo is harder, of course, but still not unbeatable. What it's really effective against is an uncoordinated team of dunderheads who refuse to cooperate.

[Togath]

Aaaand you've hit the nail on the head there.
If a strategy can be good against an uncoordinated team when your team can only use it because of good coordination, it's less the strategy itself and more how well your team works together versus their team.
Also it's a recent buff to him, and over time folks will find ways around it. It's like how people were afraid Orisa would be op when first announced, but now that we've had time to analyze her better, she's seeming much less scary.

[Pendulous]

Eh, Bastion hasn't affected my games much. Mostly because I main D.va, so I can just glare at Bastion with Defense Matrix while the rest of my team shreds him up in catharsis. Or use Defense Matrix to negate the majority of the oh so scary Nano-Tank.

Roadhog on the other hand, am I glad that his hook got re-tweaked so that he doesn't quite one-shot the MEKA. And that I can now wave Defense Matrix over my teammates to save them from the follow up shot.

Defense Matrix is an awesome skill is basically what I'm saying here.

Your teammates attack Bastion while you soak up his damage with Defense Matrix? Why was I never so lucky?

[The_Jackal]

Aaaand you've hit the nail on the head there.
If a strategy can be good against an uncoordinated team when your team can only use it because of good coordination, it's less the strategy itself and more how well your team works together versus their team.
Also it's a recent buff to him, and over time folks will find ways around it. It's like how people were afraid Orisa would be op when first announced, but now that we've had time to analyze her better, she's seeming much less scary.

Precisely, and my general observation is that a team that uses even basic coordination and teamwork will prevail against a team that doesn't, regardless of composition. I love Overwatch, in terms of how smooth and beautiful it is, but playing predominantly quick play reduces the strategic depth to the zero bound.

[Rising Phoenix]

For bastion: Zenyatta is extremely effective against him once the rein drops the shield and your team has the brains to focus him. Sleep dart and bio grenade are also great.

In other news I am seeing a lot more mercy being played. It's nice, but I honestly prefer to have anas on my teams.

[The_Jackal]

For bastion: Zenyatta is extremely effective against him once the rein drops the shield and your team has the brains to focus him. Sleep dart and bio grenade are also great.

In other news I am seeing a lot more mercy being played. It's nice, but I honestly prefer to have anas on my teams.

Ana's a lot more challenging, though her toolkit is a lot stronger if you're skilled with it. I definitely do more healing with Ana. I actually wish Mercy was a bit better, I like her aesthetic much more, but I find her leash to be terribly limiting. I've been playing a LOT of Ana lately, she's become my go-to healer.

I had a really, REALLY satisfying game when I got done with work today: Joined a KotH in progress in Lijiang Tower (the horrible one with the bridges), saw the team was didn't have the point and had only one Zenyatta healing, picked Ana, and proceeded to heal my squad to victory. Mid-match replacements are usually such a dog's breakfast, it's refreshing to be able to turn one around.

Now my wishlist for a new Hero is this: I want a support ARCHER. I love playing Hanzo when I'm not support, because I love the arrow mechanics in Overwatch, and I would LOVE bringing that to a support role.

[Geno9999]

Your teammates attack Bastion while you soak up his damage with Defense Matrix? Why was I never so lucky?

Well, if it helps, I ended Season 3 near the Platinum/Diamond border (3055 SR) and so far I've found people that have their mics on. So they're listening whenever I say "I'm blocking Bastion."

[Rising Phoenix]

Ana's a lot more challenging, though her toolkit is a lot stronger if you're skilled with it. I definitely do more healing with Ana. I actually wish Mercy was a bit better, I like her aesthetic much more, but I find her leash to be terribly limiting. I've been playing a LOT of Ana lately, she's become my go-to healer.

I had a really, REALLY satisfying game when I got done with work today: Joined a KotH in progress in Lijiang Tower (the horrible one with the bridges), saw the team was didn't have the point and had only one Zenyatta healing, picked Ana, and proceeded to heal my squad to victory. Mid-match replacements are usually such a dog's breakfast, it's refreshing to be able to turn one around.

Now my wishlist for a new Hero is this: I want a support ARCHER. I love playing Hanzo when I'm not support, because I love the arrow mechanics in Overwatch, and I would LOVE bringing that to a support role.

Well I am glad you enjoyed her

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/over...3516591#post-1

RIP Ana....it was fun.

Edit: Anywho Dive is gonna be the way to play with the zenyatta and winston buffs. The Mercy buff that was brought in has made her very effective. In fact she's probably broken on 2nd point defense.

[Silverraptor]

Finished my Placements. Low Gold, might be bumped down into silver.

[The_Jackal]

Well I am glad you enjoyed her

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/over...3516591#post-1

RIP Ana....it was fun.

Edit: Anywho Dive is gonna be the way to play with the zenyatta and winston buffs. The Mercy buff that was brought in has made her very effective. In fact she's probably broken on 2nd point defense.

Yeah, saw that. If it goes live, yes, Ana won't see play anymore. 4 shots to kill a 200 HP hero is pathetic. Which means I'll be back to Mercy or Zenyatta. Still no Lucio nerfs, I see. Glad to see there's Winston buffs in the patch tho.

[Geno9999]

Well I am glad you enjoyed her

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/over...3516591#post-1

RIP Ana....it was fun.

Edit: Anywho Dive is gonna be the way to play with the zenyatta and winston buffs. The Mercy buff that was brought in has made her very effective. In fact she's probably broken on 2nd point defense.

Hm, it doesn't mention if Ana's Rifle's healing is affected. Considering that the post makes note of separating Biotic grenade's damage and healing, I would assume that the Biotic Rifle's healing is unaffected.

That Translocator buff, wow, that is gonna be radical. Sombra will be a lot more mobile and harder to kill.

Winston barrier change might just make me pick him up, if only for quickplay.

The Zenyatta buffs are nice, even though I don't use the secondary fire, the discord orb change will help a lot now that there are more barrier heroes.

[Togath]

Don't panic yet, it's still just a ptr thing. The whole reason for it is to test and catch stuff before patches hit live.
And, like, sure her damage has been lowered a little(to give similar dps to someone like Lucio), but she can hit enemies with long range hitscan attacks and still does have excellent healing.
If it does prove too much of a nerf, it'll likely get changed before it hits live, but it doesn't seem like too dire of a decrease in her power level. After all, she can still provide some massive heals and her buffs/debuffs from her biotic grenade are still around(and her excellent sleep dart cc).

[ChaosOS]

Realistically speaking PTR changes are pretty damn close to final, new heroes get tweaked (See Orisa clip size, Ana clip size/fire rate) but by and large PTR is strictly for stability and bug fixing. The number of changes that get dropped from the PTR are very rare.

Anyways, while the ana changes are significant, I think people are underestimating the ripple effects of the Winston and Zenyatta changes. Not only are both contributors to a "Dive meta", but some of the key underused heroes right now *cough* reaper *cough* will come back to the forefront with our main monkey back in the mix. Not only that, but Reaper's best counter is Junkrat, who also just got buffed. I'm expecting a big shake up.

Regarding the ana nerf, they've been a long time coming. 3's especially are dominated by Ana's ability to 3 shot Pharah/Soldier/etc., making her not only the best answer to Roadhog's dueling prowess but a capable duelist herself, using her sniper rifle's scope on the odd combination of very short and very long sightlines provided on Ecopoint Antarctica.

[chainer1216]

Don't panic yet, it's still just a ptr thing. The whole reason for it is to test and catch stuff before patches hit live.
And, like, sure her damage has been lowered a little(to give similar dps to someone like Lucio), but she can hit enemies with long range hitscan attacks and still does have excellent healing.
If it does prove too much of a nerf, it'll likely get changed before it hits live, but it doesn't seem like too dire of a decrease in her power level. After all, she can still provide some massive heals and her buffs/debuffs from her biotic grenade are still around(and her excellent sleep dart cc).

History says the exact opposite.

The PTR is only for testing changes to make sure they don't break the game, literally. Not to test out game balance, they theoretically do internal testing for that.

[Rising Phoenix]

Realistically speaking PTR changes are pretty damn close to final, new heroes get tweaked (See Orisa clip size, Ana clip size/fire rate) but by and large PTR is strictly for stability and bug fixing. The number of changes that get dropped from the PTR are very rare.

Anyways, while the ana changes are significant, I think people are underestimating the ripple effects of the Winston and Zenyatta changes. Not only are both contributors to a "Dive meta", but some of the key underused heroes right now *cough* reaper *cough* will come back to the forefront with our main monkey back in the mix. Not only that, but Reaper's best counter is Junkrat, who also just got buffed. I'm expecting a big shake up.

Regarding the ana nerf, they've been a long time coming. 3's especially are dominated by Ana's ability to 3 shot Pharah/Soldier/etc., making her not only the best answer to Roadhog's dueling prowess but a capable duelist herself, using her sniper rifle's scope on the odd combination of very short and very long sightlines provided on Ecopoint Antarctica.

Pretty much.

The problem with these changes is that Ana has no self sustain outside of pitiful 50 heals every 10 seconds and next to no way of defending herself and no mobility. Yes sleep dart is great, but landing it on tracer/genji involves a fair bit of luck. You don't want to be immediately behind rein as that puts you at road hog range, which you want to avoid whenever possible. I basically move close to tanks only when there are annoying flankers around.

The damage nerf to Ana means that Pharmacy will be even MORE annoying now and one that may bring Widow back (No McRee and Soldier do not counter a good pharmacy). But good widows are few and far between and even then they get hard countered by winston...so...yeah...obnoxious aerial wars it's going to be.

My predictions are:

Dive meta will be the way to play. Shield meta doesn't really counter shield play (Oirssa+ Rein+ Sym), partly because discord and Winston's weapon go through shields and also because Sombra will be OP now (unless they nerf her ult charge).

Rein, Ana, Mei and Symetra will decrease is usage. D.Va will never be used.
Pharmacy will run rampant
Widow will see some play to counter the above
Winston, Genji, Zarya, Tracer/Sombra, Zenyatta and Lucio will be standard on attack and KoTH. Alternatively replace 1 dps/1 healer for pharmacy.
Reaper will be brought in to counter Winston.
Hog usage will remain high as he counters reaper and basically everyone else and no longer has to worry about Ana.

Edit: Oh and RIP Bastion. It was short lived lol. Bastion doesn't fair well against dive comp especially with discord.

[The_Jackal]

Hm, it doesn't mention if Ana's Rifle's healing is affected. Considering that the post makes note of separating Biotic grenade's damage and healing, I would assume that the Biotic Rifle's healing is unaffected.

Doesn't make a difference to me. If I need to shoot genji three times plus land a grenade, I may as well not bother to leave the spawn in quick play.

Don't panic yet, it's still just a ptr thing. The whole reason for it is to test and catch stuff before patches hit live.

When was the last time they pushed something to the PTR that DIDN'T go live? Even Bastion's 35% Ironclad buff, which everyone who played it commented it was totally OP, still went live.

And, like, sure her damage has been lowered a little(to give similar dps to someone like Lucio), but she can hit enemies with long range hitscan attacks and still does have excellent healing.

It's not the hitscan DPS that's the issue, it's the un-scoped attacks she needs to make against flankers to avoid getting killed. I mean, yes, having to shoot Pharah four times to kill her is also no picnic, but any half-decent Ana will prioritize healing over damage if there's anyone in her LOS to be healed.

If it does prove too much of a nerf, it'll likely get changed before it hits live, but it doesn't seem like too dire of a decrease in her power level. After all, she can still provide some massive heals and her buffs/debuffs from her biotic grenade are still around(and her excellent sleep dart cc).

The sleep dart doesn't do anything if you can't kill the sleeping target, and that's already quite difficult enough, as you can really only reliably combo 170 damage to a snoozing enemy, even on live. Now that figure drops to 130, so you've got to sleep them, do your combo, then still shoot them two more times to not die. Good luck.

These changes go live, and my Ana career is over, period. Long live Pharmercy.

[Pendulous]

Give Ana a Mercy-like self-heal and she's fine. I'm just glad I can be as reckless as i want with Junkrat again.

[Rising Phoenix]

Doesn't make a difference to me. If I need to shoot genji three times plus land a grenade, I may as well not bother to leave the spawn in quick play.



When was the last time they pushed something to the PTR that DIDN'T go live? Even Bastion's 35% Ironclad buff, which everyone who played it commented it was totally OP, still went live.



It's not the hitscan DPS that's the issue, it's the un-scoped attacks she needs to make against flankers to avoid getting killed. I mean, yes, having to shoot Pharah four times to kill her is also no picnic, but any half-decent Ana will prioritize healing over damage if there's anyone in her LOS to be healed.



The sleep dart doesn't do anything if you can't kill the sleeping target, and that's already quite difficult enough, as you can really only reliably combo 170 damage to a snoozing enemy, even on live. Now that figure drops to 130, so you've got to sleep them, do your combo, then still shoot them two more times to not die. Good luck.

These changes go live, and my Ana career is over, period. Long live Pharmercy.

To be fair if I sleep someone, I usually call a tank or dps over to guaranteed the kill. Especially if the slept target is a hog, mei or tracer (recall can save tracer due to the tick nature of anas damage).

Everything else is true. I despise Pharmacy as it requires the attention of the whole team to take care off. Or a very, very good widow which are few and far between or are all in masters and higher.

Thankfully my group now has a decent Widow.

[Velaryon]

Yeah, saw that. If it goes live, yes, Ana won't see play anymore. 4 shots to kill a 200 HP hero is pathetic. Which means I'll be back to Mercy or Zenyatta. Still no Lucio nerfs, I see. Glad to see there's Winston buffs in the patch tho.

Winston buff is LONG overdue. His basic kit is tricky to play well and that's fine, but he definitely needed a little something.

As for Lucio, he's already gotten nerfs to both his amped healing and amped speed boost. His problem isn't that he's too good, it's that he has no competition for his primary roles (AoE healer and speed booster). They can nerf him all they want, but as long as he has any speed boost at all, he's going to be a near-mandatory pick. What Blizzard really needs to do is introduce a new character that competes for Lucio's role in team comps.

When was the last time they pushed something to the PTR that DIDN'T go live? Even Bastion's 35% Ironclad buff, which everyone who played it commented it was totally OP, still went live

After the Roadhog hook changes went on the PTR, they ended up doing further tweaking before it went live. And supposedly there was a time when they were going to increase Mercy's damage buff, but scrapped it after it went onto the PTR (I have no memory of this since I'm a console player, but it was cited as an example when I asked this same question on another forum).

So it's happened maybe once or twice. Otherwise, Blizzard has pretty much made up their minds already by the time they put something on the PTR.