Overwatch: Boop!

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

What Blizzard really needs to do is introduce a new character that competes for Lucio's role in team comps.

I feel like you might run BOTH then, to swap back and forth between boosts for the fastest rollout possible.

The inherent problem is that Overwatch is an objective-based game. Being on/near the objective > any amount of power not in a position to threaten it. So unless there's some fundamental reason why you don't want these speed boosts (i.e. you don't always pick Tracer because she's more flanker and less straight offense, and sometimes that's not helpful)...

[Rising Phoenix]

Winston buff is LONG overdue. His basic kit is tricky to play well and that's fine, but he definitely needed a little something.

As for Lucio, he's already gotten nerfs to both his amped healing and amped speed boost. His problem isn't that he's too good, it's that he has no competition for his primary roles (AoE healer and speed booster). They can nerf him all they want, but as long as he has any speed boost at all, he's going to be a near-mandatory pick. What Blizzard really needs to do is introduce a new character that competes for Lucio's role in team comps.

Basically this. However, considering that Orissa may not be what we expect to be (she probably won't be a solid alternative to rein), I am bit concerned about what they can come up with.

[The_Jackal]

To be fair if I sleep someone, I usually call a tank or dps over to guaranteed the kill. Especially if the slept target is a hog, mei or tracer (recall can save tracer due to the tick nature of anas damage).

Everything else is true. I despise Pharmacy as it requires the attention of the whole team to take care off. Or a very, very good widow which are few and far between or are all in masters and higher.

Thankfully my group now has a decent Widow.

Yeah, when you're solo queueing with the Scum of the Earth, you're lucky to get anyone within line of sight of the objective, to say nothing of near enough to help you take out a sleeping flanker. Countering Pharmercy doesn't require the whole team, just a half-decent McCree or Soldier. I've even had some success airshotting with Hanzo, though that's not a tactic I would recommend to anyone. If the objective of this change is to push Widow back into the meta, they're going to be disappointed. To really get Widow or Hanzo into active play, they don't need damage, or a "meta niche", just the ability to fend of a half-conscious Genji or Tracer.

I'll probably queue more Zen if Ana changes go live. He's actually one of my strongest heroes. Or just play more Hanzo, which is what I want to do anyway.

Winston buff is LONG overdue. His basic kit is tricky to play well and that's fine, but he definitely needed a little something.

Totally agreed. Winston has needed love for a while, and I hope that this will help bring him into his own. I still think he needs more damage on his Tesla gun, or possibly more Gorilla Rage, but I'll take what I can get. He's definitely my favorite tank, in terms of playstyle.

As for Lucio, he's already gotten nerfs to both his amped healing and amped speed boost. His problem isn't that he's too good, it's that he has no competition for his primary roles (AoE healer and speed booster). They can nerf him all they want, but as long as he has any speed boost at all, he's going to be a near-mandatory pick. What Blizzard really needs to do is introduce a new character that competes for Lucio's role in team comps.

Yes, definitely true, but I don't think he's balanced, even if his niche is uncontested. In quick play, Lucio's combination of pick rate and win rate is unrivaled. He is really good, doesn't require any particularly great skills to be effective, and has HUGE map utility with his soundwave. Add in his ability to stall by styling on people, and it's not hard to figure out why he's the winningest Hero in Overwatch.

After the Roadhog hook changes went on the PTR, they ended up doing further tweaking before it went live. And supposedly there was a time when they were going to increase Mercy's damage buff, but scrapped it after it went onto the PTR (I have no memory of this since I'm a console player, but it was cited as an example when I asked this same question on another forum).

We'll see. They also released communication earlier suggesting that they were going to start getting more liberal with testing balance changes on the PTR.

I feel like you might run BOTH then, to swap back and forth between boosts for the fastest rollout possible.

The inherent problem is that Overwatch is an objective-based game. Being on/near the objective > any amount of power not in a position to threaten it. So unless there's some fundamental reason why you don't want these speed boosts (i.e. you don't always pick Tracer because she's more flanker and less straight offense, and sometimes that's not helpful)...

This. The only thing stopping teams from running double Lucio, besides the 1 Hero limit, is that you can't double-stack Crossfade buffs. Speed boost's real utility isn't so much 'getting to the objective', though that's definitely useful, it's 'amp through a chokepoint', at least in the competitive scene. But I still maintain Lucio would be entirely viable with NO speed boost at all. He's a 'always on, heal everyone' Hero who can be really evasive and hard to hit. He's the Genji of supports: Super annoying to deal with.

Basically this. However, considering that Orissa may not be what we expect to be (she probably won't be a solid alternative to rein), I am bit concerned about what they can come up with.

Orissa won't displace Reinhardt, she'll displace the other tank spot. She might even bring about a triple-tank renaissance, with Rein/Orissa/Zarya, with Mercy/Lucio in support, and probably Soldier in back.

[Morphic tide]

Orissa won't displace Reinhardt, she'll displace the other tank spot. She might even bring about a triple-tank renaissance, with Rein/Orissa/Zarya, with Mercy/Lucio in support, and probably Soldier in back.

Sometimes swapping Soldier for Bastion, when a choke is narrow enough for Bastion to work. And sometimes swapping for Phara to go Pharmercy at the semipro level where people aren't always able to counter Pharmercy while sleeping.

Actually, a great point to having Orissa displace the second tank slot is that she can give Rein a moment to recharge the shield a little bit, making the shield that much harder to put down. It'll be a nightmare on Defence, where you can just sit down in one of the single lane areas with Lucio or Mercy swapped for Zenyata to boost damage to make a Bastion help spray down Rein shields coming at you.

[Pendulous]

Time to get explodey. Can't wait for this patch to go live now https://gfycat.com/FewFastBedlingtonterrier

[Velaryon]

I'll probably queue more Zen if Ana changes go live. He's actually one of my strongest heroes. Or just play more Hanzo, which is what I want to do anyway.

It definitely looks like Blizzard is trying to shift more people to playing Mercy and Zenyatta as the primary healers. I think they've wanted Mercy at the top of the healer pile since the beginning, but because Ana was so strong, they couldn't get her there.

I'm not much of an Ana player, but to me these nerfs look extremely harsh. I fully expect that her pick rate will drop like a stone. Eventually she'll find some use, because she can still function as a secondary healer and she's still great as a Roadhog counter, but she will struggle to keep tanks healed now, and her ability to get kills on her own will be on par with (if not below) Mercy.

Eventually I'm sure they'll buff her up again, especially if her usage drops as far as I expect it to. But it's clear that the goal is to make darn sure the triple tank meta stays dead and buried.

Totally agreed. Winston has needed love for a while, and I hope that this will help bring him into his own. I still think he needs more damage on his Tesla gun, or possibly more Gorilla Rage, but I'll take what I can get. He's definitely my favorite tank, in terms of playstyle.

I think giving Winston more damage might make him too good at his role. I'd rather see him get an increased clip size so that he doesn't have to reload right when he's about to score a kill so often. And yeah, something to make his ultimate a little more exciting would be nice. I'd like to see him get a damage increase there and make it more survivable. Right now it's only good if there's a pit nearby, or to sow a bit of chaos when the rest of his team pushes. He can't get kills with it, and if his team doesn't push when he uses it, he gets focused down in a hurry while being completely ineffective.

Yes, definitely true, but I don't think he's balanced, even if his niche is uncontested. In quick play, Lucio's combination of pick rate and win rate is unrivaled. He is really good, doesn't require any particularly great skills to be effective, and has HUGE map utility with his soundwave. Add in his ability to stall by styling on people, and it's not hard to figure out why he's the winningest Hero in Overwatch.

This is one of those times where I think the fact I play on consoles instead of PC might be skewing my perspective. He's still a great utility hero, but I don't think he's OP, at least on his own merits. He's certainly good for getting to the point quickly, pushing a coordinated team through chokes, making great use of pits and cliffs, and is probably the second best character for stalling a payload on defense while waiting for teammates to respawn and get back (Mei still edges him out here, I think). But he's a poor solo healer, his damage is negligible if there's not a pit nearby for environmental kills, and I can count the number of really good wall riders I've seen on PS4 on one hand.

We'll see. They also released communication earlier suggesting that they were going to start getting more liberal with testing balance changes on the PTR.

That would be nice. I believe there have been several times when they could have avoid bad changes, or solved balance problems much faster, if they actually listened to their community feedback a bit more.

[The_Jackal]

I think giving Winston more damage might make him too good at his role. I'd rather see him get an increased clip size so that he doesn't have to reload right when he's about to score a kill so often. And yeah, something to make his ultimate a little more exciting would be nice. I'd like to see him get a damage increase there and make it more survivable. Right now it's only good if there's a pit nearby, or to sow a bit of chaos when the rest of his team pushes. He can't get kills with it, and if his team doesn't push when he uses it, he gets focused down in a hurry while being completely ineffective.

The problem is when facing anyone with any kind of healing support, Winston's output falls into nothingness. Winston targeting someone who's getting healed by Mercy? No damage. He can switch to Mercy, sure, but even that's a 4-second burn, which is unlikely. 60 DPS is just too weak. Which is what Ana will be after PTR goes live.

This is one of those times where I think the fact I play on consoles instead of PC might be skewing my perspective. He's still a great utility hero, but I don't think he's OP, at least on his own merits. He's certainly good for getting to the point quickly, pushing a coordinated team through chokes, making great use of pits and cliffs, and is probably the second best character for stalling a payload on defense while waiting for teammates to respawn and get back (Mei still edges him out here, I think). But he's a poor solo healer, his damage is negligible if there's not a pit nearby for environmental kills, and I can count the number of really good wall riders I've seen on PS4 on one hand.

He's not a solo healer, of course, but he's a mandatory pick, and his win rate is reflective of his utility and power. If Lucio is picked more often, and wins more often, than Ana, how is it that Ana is the one seeing nerfs?

[chainer1216]

He's not a solo healer, of course, but he's a mandatory pick, and his win rate is reflective of his utility and power. If Lucio is picked more often, and wins more often, than Ana, how is it that Ana is the one seeing nerfs?

He's been hit on all fronts already, theres no way to adjust him anymore without effectively removing his abilities.

Same with Reinhardt, hes in every game not because hes OP but because he has something viewed as necessary and a potentially clutch ult, matching lucio's speed boost and sound barrier.

[Togath]

So I read about an issue where some people are making idle servers for loot boxes...
And aside from the obvious "there's probably some kinda Blizzard intervention incoming" expectation...
Is anyone else getting dejavu to TF2? Didn't this same kinda thing happen back in the earlier days of it?

[Mutazoia]

So I read about an issue where some people are making idle servers for loot boxes...
And aside from the obvious "there's probably some kinda Blizzard intervention incoming" expectation...
Is anyone else getting dejavu to TF2? Didn't this same kinda thing happen back in the earlier days of it?

Yes, it did, and I'm sure Blizz is going to dust off the ban hammer once they get enough complaints. Or, at the very least, the "don't do that" mallet.

On another note, does anyone else think Rein's shield (or Symetria's) should also block players from passing through? Rein could hold a chokepoint as long as his shield held, Symetria could push players back if they didn't get out of the way. As it is, letting high mobility characters zip right through it makes little sense (it blocks bullets and rockets, but not people?)

[mythmonster2]

On another note, does anyone else think Rein's shield (or Symetria's) should also block players from passing through? Rein could hold a chokepoint as long as his shield held, Symetria could push players back if they didn't get out of the way. As it is, letting high mobility characters zip right through it makes little sense (it blocks bullets and rockets, but not people?)

Rein is already nearly required for any non-dive comp, making his barrier solid would only make him more important and break the ability for, say, a Genji to use a dragonblade or Tracer to stick a bomb.

[Mutazoia]

Rein is already nearly required for any non-dive comp, making his barrier solid would only make him more important and break the ability for, say, a Genji to use a dragonblade or Tracer to stick a bomb.

They would just require a little more maneuvering to turn his shield, rather than just walking through it with a lolz

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

They would just require a little more maneuvering to turn his shield, rather than just walking through it with a lolz

Given how fast the turn radius is, and that there are some chokepoints the shield can almost completely block? Not really.

I think making Reinhardt's shield a solid barrier to movement would turn him from the tank you want in 90% of situations to the tank you want in 140% of situations, remove some of the small counterplay to him aside from "shoot the shield a lot," and just generally make flankers of all kinds more frustrating to play.

It would also DESTROY his power budget, so he'd have to lose something somewhere else.

[Silverraptor]

With Ana's damage nerf, I think I heard that over the course of a couple seconds, her damage output is greater than McCree's. After these nerfs, she'll be right under him in damage.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

With Ana's damage nerf, I think I heard that over the course of a couple seconds, her damage output is greater than McCree's. After these nerfs, she'll be right under him in damage.

Eh? In most cases I feel that's a weird statistic, since McCree is better as a time-to-kill character than a "poke at people" character, and if the target is dead in 2 seconds your DPS over a 10 second period doesn't matter much. Plus I bet that's not taking headshots into account.

[Silverraptor]

Eh? In most cases I feel that's a weird statistic, since McCree is better as a time-to-kill character than a "poke at people" character, and if the target is dead in 2 seconds your DPS over a 10 second period doesn't matter much. Plus I bet that's not taking headshots into account.

It's something I heard. Ana's shoot-Grenade-shoot was greater dps than McCree's dps over the same course of time, providing a high amount of burst damage from Ana as well as with her healing capabilities and everything.

[ChaosOS]

Pre-nerf Ana DPS: 88 (80 @ 1.1 RPS) + 60 from Grenade Damage

McCree DPS: 140 (70 @ 2 RPS) + 25 from Flashbang (if in range)

McCree's damage is much higher. The big deal is that Ana doesn't have any falloff, while McCree does, which makes her DPS superior at long ranges as McCree drops to 35 damage/shot

[The_Jackal]

With Ana's damage nerf, I think I heard that over the course of a couple seconds, her damage output is greater than McCree's. After these nerfs, she'll be right under him in damage.

That's total BS. You're taking the application of a 10 second cooldown ability and conflating it to a hero's sustained firepower. In one second, Ana (live) can inflict 135 damage (Biotic Grenade plus shot). Animation canceling doesn't work, so there's no higher DPS window Ana can attain. That compares unfavorably to McCree's sustained (70 damage every 2 seconds) and completely disregards headshots. The comparison doesn't get any more favorable when you compare McCree's fan the hammer to Ana's live damage. After the nerf, she'll do 60 DPS, with a 1 second burst of 90 DPS. which is just over half of what McCree can dish out, as well as below half of Soldier. In fact, Ana's burst is lower DPS than Mercy (100 DPS) or Zenyatta's (138 DPS) sustained damage. She's even outdamaged by Lucio, who, we should not forget, has the ability (along with Pharah) to instantly kill Heroes or entire teams, knocking people off of map geometry.

I don't know if this will drop Ana from the professional meta, because she's not brought for her damage, but it will absolutely destroy her pick rate in regular play, both Competitive and Quick Play.

[Rising Phoenix]

With Ana's damage nerf, I think I heard that over the course of a couple seconds, her damage output is greater than McCree's. After these nerfs, she'll be right under him in damage.

Whoever started this rumour is a terrible Mcree full stop. as others have said its that Ana has no fall off which makes her better at range...which makes sense as she's a sniper and Mcree is a close range duelist (that is not meant to hard counter a good Pharah).

Any Mcree who's outdamaged by Ana when trying their best is terrible. And any Ana who's competing for a damage medal is a bad Ana, that or her team is very bad.

Anas strength is that she can multitask and decide on the fly what she wants to do. Is my team safe? I can potshot the hog or take the pharah out. Is my team not safe? Time to sleep dart the charging rein and nade that annoying hog while I top the tanks up.

Edit: Also of course her burst healing.

[NeoVid]

Here's some interesting statistics! Though also fairly unsurprising. Guess what, better players are less likely to rage in chat and make their teams lose, who would have ever imagined that...

So I read about an issue where some people are making idle servers for loot boxes...
And aside from the obvious "there's probably some kinda Blizzard intervention incoming" expectation...
Is anyone else getting dejavu to TF2? Didn't this same kinda thing happen back in the earlier days of it?

Turns out there's already an official answer.

Short version: Making idle servers will get you banned. Leveling while idle will get you banned.

[The_Jackal]

Whoever started this rumour is a terrible Mcree full stop. as others have said its that Ana has no fall off which makes her better at range...which makes sense as she's a sniper and Mcree is a close range duelist (that is not meant to hard counter a good Pharah).

Any Mcree who's outdamaged by Ana when trying their best is terrible. And any Ana who's competing for a damage medal is a bad Ana, that or her team is very bad.

Anas strength is that she can multitask and decide on the fly what she wants to do. Is my team safe? I can potshot the hog or take the pharah out. I my team not safe? Time to sleep dart the charging rein and nade that annoying hog while I top the tanks up.

Exactly this. The problem with the Ana nerfs as presented may not have a great effect on the meta, but they will absolutely CRIPPLE Ana in PUG play. The people pretending that Ana is a strong DPS hero are fooling themselves.

[Togath]

Here's some interesting statistics! Though also fairly unsurprising. Guess what, better players are less likely to rage in chat and make their teams lose, who would have ever imagined that...



Turns out there's already an official answer.

Short version: Making idle servers will get you banned. Leveling while idle will get you banned.

Makes sense. Just sort of amusing to see it happen again.


As for the dps topic... starting to see what people mean. I hadn't actually looked at... well, ALL of the other healers.
Plus Zenyatta, Lucio, and Mercy(who has a surprisingly decent gun) can all head shot with good aim/timing to boost even higher.

[Rising Phoenix]

Makes sense. Just sort of amusing to see it happen again.


As for the dps topic... starting to see what people mean. I hadn't actually looked at... well, ALL of the other healers.
Plus Zenyatta, Lucio, and Mercy(who has a surprisingly decent gun) can all head shot with good aim/timing to boost even higher.

Do NOT underestimate mercy's gun. It's actually very easy to get head shots with. People need to learn to use it more and multitask (which admittedly is the weakest point of mercy)

[The_Jackal]

Here's some interesting statistics! Though also fairly unsurprising. Guess what, better players are less likely to rage in chat and make their teams lose, who would have ever imagined that...

Correlation, not causation. At best, it's an illustration of the Dunning-Kruger effect in action. Higher ranked play will also feature fewer players choosing dumpster Heroes or skipping key roles, and will likely have fewer instances of players feeding. While I agree that raging in chat is unlikely to improve your situation (because when was a moron ever convinced they were wrong), it's a mistake to presume that salt is the CAUSE of the failure. It's just a symptom of the disease, and the disease is stupidity.

Do NOT underestimate mercy's gun. It's actually very easy to get head shots with. People need to learn to use it more and multitask (which admittedly is the weakest point of mercy)

Yeah, I like Mercy's popgun for helping bust barriers, and zone fire when my teammates are safe, but it's really important to understand that healing is far more important and reliable than shooting. Don't let your buddies die because you were scope locked on shooting.

[Silverraptor]

Turns out there's already an official answer.

Short version: Making idle servers will get you banned. Leveling while idle will get you banned.

Oh Really! I avoiding player custom games because I assumed you wouldn't get experience normally from playing it! Knowing how people are, it's going to be a guarantee that custom games will not present experience at all as an inevitable outcome, but we should enjoy our custom games while we can!

[Togath]

Eh, I've seen communities sometimes turn around their habits(not always, but it's not impossible either).
All depends on how willing to listen to the Devs Overwatch people are.
Additions of stuff like an afk timer of some kind helps.
Heck, creating some rule that means xp is only gained if a character performs enough actions might help too.

[The_Jackal]

Eh, I've seen communities sometimes turn around their habits(not always, but it's not impossible either).
All depends on how willing to listen to the Devs Overwatch people are.
Additions of stuff like an afk timer of some kind helps.
Heck, creating some rule that means xp is only gained if a character performs enough actions might help too.

I find that Overwatch has a pretty excellent community overall, but it's human nature to remember all the negative experiences and take the positive ones for granted. I do think that custom games should give less XP than QP or Comp by far.

[Togath]

I do think that custom games should give less XP than QP or Comp by far.

I'll be totally honest, I didn't know they gave anything at all until this came up.

[Silverraptor]

Ana nerfs reduced. The Biotic Grenade will be reverted back to its original amount. Only the weapon damage will be nerfed.

[Mutazoia]

Given how fast the turn radius is, and that there are some chokepoints the shield can almost completely block? Not really.

I think making Reinhardt's shield a solid barrier to movement would turn him from the tank you want in 90% of situations to the tank you want in 140% of situations, remove some of the small counterplay to him aside from "shoot the shield a lot," and just generally make flankers of all kinds more frustrating to play.

It would also DESTROY his power budget, so he'd have to lose something somewhere else.

You would just have to use wolf pack tactics...one player to turn him, the rest to shoot him in the back. Tracer could blink behind him, Reaper could teleport, Sombra could hack him (like she already does). There are few true choke points that can't be by-passed by an alternate route in the game.