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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: Overwatch: Boop!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutazoia View Post
    There are few true choke points that can't be by-passed by an alternate route in the game.
    All of them are indoors, too, because Pharah and D.Va exist. And Mercy can follow along to heal. Sometimes Winston can jump over big map features. Generally, there's a lot of manoeuvrability. In a few cases, Lucio can end up behind enemy lines by wall-riding from a balcony or cliff. So you can get most of a team behind the enemy, with the other half on the other side to get them screwed by a flank that very, very few people would be ready for. Ambushed from behind, where there's no ground route, by a D.Va, Pharah and Mercy while the other side has a Reinhardt, Ana/Lucio and Bastion results in a massive nightmare of panic and team screws for people who can't deal with such a surprise.

    D.Va's fun. You can jump behind the enemy to force them to deal with a tank behind them that can eat a bunch of projectiles. Then, when you kill them, there's a chance they make enough pot shots to get their tank back. And you have to put them down again. And everyone shooting at D.Va is someone who isn't shooting at the rest of the team. A well-placed Mercy or a good shot Ana can keep this diversion up quite a bit longer. Although using Mercy leaves you with a support that can't help the rest of the team.

    Also, Pharah is literally non-functional on the Xbox version, because the jump button is directly next to the aiming stick and they are both on the same side as the trigger for primary fire, so it's physically impossible to fly, aim and shoot at the same time, and doing two of the three is painful because you feel the need to react by aiming, but you can't, or need to pull the trigger on rapid response, but you have to change your grip to go from the jump button to the trigger.

  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: Overwatch: Boop!

    Can't you rework the xbox controls?

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_in_Tonic View Post
    I feel like you might run BOTH then, to swap back and forth between boosts for the fastest rollout possible.

    The inherent problem is that Overwatch is an objective-based game. Being on/near the objective > any amount of power not in a position to threaten it. So unless there's some fundamental reason why you don't want these speed boosts (i.e. you don't always pick Tracer because she's more flanker and less straight offense, and sometimes that's not helpful)...
    Well, there are two ways to solve the problem (if indeed it is a problem at all) of Lucio always getting picked because of his speed boost:

    1. remove the speed boost, in which case he is functionally a completely different character and you have to figure out what to give him instead

    2. introduce competition for this role, so that there's a reason to consider picking someone else as a booster.

    As for the problem of teams possibly running both, it seems to me that an easy fix for that would be to make it so that Lucio's speed boost and <hypothetical new character with a similar ability> simply do not stack. You can have them both, but one is redundant, similar to having two Lucio's on speed boost now.

    Were I Blizzard, I would also make this the case for stacking Symmetra shield generators in Arcade mode, but what do I know? I'm just a guy who gets at least half of his weekly Arcade wins in No Limits by running 3+ Symmetras for truly ludicrous amounts of shield health.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morphic tide View Post
    Also, Pharah is literally non-functional on the Xbox version, because the jump button is directly next to the aiming stick and they are both on the same side as the trigger for primary fire, so it's physically impossible to fly, aim and shoot at the same time, and doing two of the three is painful because you feel the need to react by aiming, but you can't, or need to pull the trigger on rapid response, but you have to change your grip to go from the jump button to the trigger.
    Surely you can remap buttons? I know you can in the PS4 version - I remapped Mercy's weapon switch, swapped around McCree's flashbang and roll, and have made a couple other adjustments. And people on the GameFAQs boards are always telling me how they practically remap the whole controller for Genji and Lucio in ways that seem too convoluted to be helpful to me.

    EDIT: sorry, forgot to reply to the second quote
    Last edited by Velaryon; 2017-03-09 at 02:33 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverraptor View Post
    Ana nerfs reduced. The Biotic Grenade will be reverted back to its original amount. Only the weapon damage will be nerfed.
    Sadly, Zenyatta discord change also reverted. But hey, he got a change to that alternate ability on him I never use because why would you ever.

  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: Overwatch: Boop!

    Quote Originally Posted by Morphic tide View Post
    Also, Pharah is literally non-functional on the Xbox version, because the jump button is directly next to the aiming stick and they are both on the same side as the trigger for primary fire, so it's physically impossible to fly, aim and shoot at the same time, and doing two of the three is painful because you feel the need to react by aiming, but you can't, or need to pull the trigger on rapid response, but you have to change your grip to go from the jump button to the trigger.
    The PS4 version is better...the second trigger also functions to fire the jump jets, so you can jump, keep her in the air, aim and fire. The only drawback is that precise aiming with the thumb stick is slow, so it's hard to get a solid hit on a moving target from the air...you usually have to settle for splash damage (which is why I still think they need to increase the rate of fire on her rockets, or let her "charge" up a few and launch them all at once, Unreal Tournament 8-ball style.)
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  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: Overwatch: Boop!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pendulous View Post
    Sadly, Zenyatta discord change also reverted. But hey, he got a change to that alternate ability on him I never use because why would you ever.
    Zen's alt fire is good for peeking Turrets or preparing to turn a blind corner.

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    Default Re: Overwatch: Boop!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pendulous View Post
    Sadly, Zenyatta discord change also reverted. But hey, he got a change to that alternate ability on him I never use because why would you ever.
    Because his alt fire will instakill a lot of the cast. Zen's one of my favorite characters, but I never did that well with him until I watched better players and found out I wasn't using his charged shots nearly often enough.
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  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoVid View Post
    Because his alt fire will instakill a lot of the cast. Zen's one of my favorite characters, but I never did that well with him until I watched better players and found out I wasn't using his charged shots nearly often enough.
    Especially now that the alt-fire's damage per individual ball is identical to his primary fire mode. You lose almost nothing but charging your shots.

  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: Overwatch: Boop!

    The bigger buff to the alt-fire is the recovery delay, not the spread. Getting an additional .4s of firing after dropping the right click is worth 1 or 2 shots, which can easily make the difference between winning and losing a duel.

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    Default Re: Overwatch: Boop!

    New comic came out...
    Is it weird that I kinda want a skin based on the bastion look from the first page?
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  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Default Re: Overwatch: Boop!

    Quote Originally Posted by Togath View Post
    New comic came out...
    Is it weird that I kinda want a skin based on the bastion look from the first page?
    I for one welcome our octopod riding omnic overlords.

    Edit: As for Ana nerfs being reverted I'd keep:

    -Nade heals 50 to allies. Heals 100 to Ana
    -Damage at 70.

    Everything else as per the nerfs.
    Last edited by Rising Phoenix; 2017-03-09 at 07:45 PM.
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  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Default Re: Overwatch: Boop!

    Quote Originally Posted by Togath View Post
    New comic came out...
    Is it weird that I kinda want a skin based on the bastion look from the first page?
    Where do I read the comic?
    My own webcomic. Idiosyncrasy.
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  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Default Re: Overwatch: Boop!

    Meow(Steam page)
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  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Togath View Post
    Oh, look, another thing I can't read at the moment because nobody bothers making web pages or comics that scale properly for undersized screens. Do people not realize there are screens with 720p native resolution still? Like first gen IPads, netbooks and cheap smartphones?

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    Default Re: Overwatch: Boop!

    Quote Originally Posted by Morphic tide View Post
    Oh, look, another thing I can't read at the moment because nobody bothers making web pages or comics that scale properly for undersized screens. Do people not realize there are screens with 720p native resolution still? Like first gen IPads, netbooks and cheap smartphones?
    There should be a little zoom in button on the top right corner to look at it properly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaedalusMkV View Post
    There should be a little zoom in button on the top right corner to look at it properly.
    I still have to click-and drag it to look around it. it's either not read it at all, or deal with that pain-in-the-ass, and not even realize sometimes that I missed some panels. That's AFTER I have to put it on full screen because it's impossible to read otherwise. Seriously. I don't have to any of that stuff to read the comic here, or any other site. Come on Blizzard.

  17. - Top - End - #77
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    Default Re: Overwatch: Boop!

    I had to drag to scroll on my screen too.
    I am not 100% sure it's an issue with resolution as much as how they set up the section of their site. On my laptop it's either WAY too small or huge. And it has a pretty decent screen.
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  18. - Top - End - #78
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    I do not understand how Blizzard hasn't at least said something in regards to Symmetra. her beam is beyond stupid OP. It doesn't detach after breaking line of sight. It stays at max power even after it detaches. I shouldn't have to walk up and see a Symmetra, only to die in less than two seconds.

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    Default Re: Overwatch: Boop!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pendulous View Post
    I do not understand how Blizzard hasn't at least said something in regards to Symmetra. her beam is beyond stupid OP. It doesn't detach after breaking line of sight. It stays at max power even after it detaches. I shouldn't have to walk up and see a Symmetra, only to die in less than two seconds.
    With her range, though, it's not as bad as it seems. Rein's hammer is just as bad, if not worse, and it's range isn't much less that Sym's beam....it will damage you from a few feet past it's swing arc, has a 90 deg "firing" arc which means he doesn't need LOS either, he just has to turn slightly to hit you if you get behind him. Plus he has more health than Sym does, and can rocket away from you if he needs to, which Sym can't do. Syms beam WILL break off if you lose LOS for more than a second. I can't tell you how many times a Gengi has rushed behind me and broken off the beam before I could turn around.

    Sym's real danger is when you ignore her/don't know she's there, and she can focus that beam on you uninterrupted. Her short range primary fire put's her in the same class as the pure melee characters, since her alt fire is so slow moving that the only way you hit anybody with it, is by firing it off and hoping some one runs around a corner and smacks into it at just the right moment.
    Last edited by Mutazoia; 2017-03-10 at 06:49 AM.
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  20. - Top - End - #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaedalusMkV View Post
    There should be a little zoom in button on the top right corner to look at it properly.
    Well, I was doing it on an IPad. Doing that made the image clip to the point of being unable to read half of it because it went off screen, and I couldn't do click and drag because for some reason I couldn't scroll to the right.

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    Default Re: Overwatch: Boop!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutazoia View Post
    With her range, though, it's not as bad as it seems. Rein's hammer is just as bad, if not worse, and it's range isn't much less that Sym's beam....it will damage you from a few feet past it's swing arc, has a 90 deg "firing" arc which means he doesn't need LOS either, he just has to turn slightly to hit you if you get behind him. Plus he has more health than Sym does, and can rocket away from you if he needs to, which Sym can't do. Syms beam WILL break off if you lose LOS for more than a second. I can't tell you how many times a Gengi has rushed behind me and broken off the beam before I could turn around.

    Sym's real danger is when you ignore her/don't know she's there, and she can focus that beam on you uninterrupted. Her short range primary fire put's her in the same class as the pure melee characters, since her alt fire is so slow moving that the only way you hit anybody with it, is by firing it off and hoping some one runs around a corner and smacks into it at just the right moment.
    I have to agree with Pendulous her. Sure, Reinhardt is just as dangerous, but that's kinda what he's about. He's a melee character with a huge armor and a huge hammer, and he should be threatening when engaging you in close combat. Symmetra however can kill two or three attackers just as easily, while being a support character centered around point defense and protecting others.
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    Default Re: Overwatch: Boop!

    Quote Originally Posted by GolemsVoice View Post
    I have to agree with Pendulous her. Sure, Reinhardt is just as dangerous, but that's kinda what he's about. He's a melee character with a huge armor and a huge hammer, and he should be threatening when engaging you in close combat. Symmetra however can kill two or three attackers just as easily, while being a support character centered around point defense and protecting others.
    Rein is NOT as threatening, because he's got a hitbox that takes up half your screen. He can't avoid your fire by spazjumping around at random while burning you for up to 120 DPS. Reinhardt's hammmer has 75 DPS. Symmetra starts at 30, then jumps to 60, then jumps to 120. He also doesn't have a barrier he can throw up while he runs at you at full speed, burning your face the whole time. When he throws up his shield, he can't move fast enough to force an engagement with anyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutazoia View Post
    With her range, though, it's not as bad as it seems. Rein's hammer is just as bad, if not worse, and it's range isn't much less that Sym's beam....it will damage you from a few feet past it's swing arc, has a 90 deg "firing" arc which means he doesn't need LOS either, he just has to turn slightly to hit you if you get behind him.
    This is a frequent source of frustration for me. I don't mind Reinhardt having a big range with his hammer, but I don't see why they can't animate his swing to actually show you his real swing arc. As it is, it seems like he's killing you with the force of the wind from a near miss, rather than actually hitting you with the hammer. Judging how far away you have to be to stay out of his reach is really difficult when you can't actually see the true area he's covering.


    Quote Originally Posted by GolemsVoice View Post
    I have to agree with Pendulous her. Sure, Reinhardt is just as dangerous, but that's kinda what he's about. He's a melee character with a huge armor and a huge hammer, and he should be threatening when engaging you in close combat. Symmetra however can kill two or three attackers just as easily, while being a support character centered around point defense and protecting others.
    Blizzard really needs to just bite the bullet and move Symmetra out of the support category already. She's a defense hero, no matter what the game claims about her role. At this point I'm pretty sure the only reason they haven't moved her is because they're adamant that "support" =/= "healing," and she's the only current example of that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Velaryon View Post
    This is a frequent source of frustration for me. I don't mind Reinhardt having a big range with his hammer, but I don't see why they can't animate his swing to actually show you his real swing arc. As it is, it seems like he's killing you with the force of the wind from a near miss, rather than actually hitting you with the hammer. Judging how far away you have to be to stay out of his reach is really difficult when you can't actually see the true area he's covering.
    The problem is not Reinhardt's animations, it's the irreconcilable race condition between the client and the server. Here's a video that covers the problems they're contending with. Until there's a network protocol which transmits data instantly via quantum entanglement, or some other faster-than-light phenomenon, there's always going to be latency which will prevent 100% accurate physics calcuations in network games.

    Blizzard really needs to just bite the bullet and move Symmetra out of the support category already. She's a defense hero, no matter what the game claims about her role. At this point I'm pretty sure the only reason they haven't moved her is because they're adamant that "support" =/= "healing," and she's the only current example of that.
    Her categorization is irrelevant. It's a label, nothing more. I agree the label is wrong, but that couldn't have less effect on her use or win rates. Making her a defense hero will not make her auto-hit 120 DPS leash any less effective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Jackal View Post
    The problem is not Reinhardt's animations, it's the irreconcilable race condition between the client and the server. Here's a video that covers the problems they're contending with. Until there's a network protocol which transmits data instantly via quantum entanglement, or some other faster-than-light phenomenon, there's always going to be latency which will prevent 100% accurate physics calcuations in network games.
    I'm familiar with the latency issue. I once saved a video of shots curving around a corner to hit me for several seconds after I had broken line of sight, because at the time I didn't understand what was going on. This... doesn't seem like the issue with Reinhardt. It seems more comparable with how Hanzo can headshot a stationary target by firing over their shoulder.

    Also, it's worth noting that Overwatch seems to have far more and far worse issues with latency than any other game I've played online, including games from 7 or 8 years ago on slower internet. I don't know why, but Overwatch seems to be far worse about this even than games like the original Left 4 Dead, or Red Dead Redemption. Then again, that was on the Xbox 360 and I'm on PS4 now, so maybe it's just that Xbox was better about this than Sony.


    Her categorization is irrelevant. It's a label, nothing more. I agree the label is wrong, but that couldn't have less effect on her use or win rates. Making her a defense hero will not make her auto-hit 120 DPS leash any less effective.
    No, but it changes the expectations that the player base has for a character. Defense heroes are, for the most part at least, DPS characters. Nobody argues that Widowmaker shouldn't be able to kill most non-tanks with a headshot. Nobody argues that Junkrat shouldn't do big damage with his grenade spam. If Symmetra were officially classified as a defense hero, it wouldn't change a thing about how she plays, but it would be a clear statement that zone control and killing is what she does. Whereas now, she's defined as "support" presumably because of her ultimates. Her mobile shield is more tank-like than support, so all she really has is teleportation and a shield generator. Not very support-like at all IMO.

    She would still be a pain in the ass because of her lock-on weapon damage scaling, yes.

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    Default Re: Overwatch: Boop!

    Quote Originally Posted by Velaryon View Post
    I'm familiar with the latency issue. I once saved a video of shots curving around a corner to hit me for several seconds after I had broken line of sight, because at the time I didn't understand what was going on. This... doesn't seem like the issue with Reinhardt. It seems more comparable with how Hanzo can headshot a stationary target by firing over their shoulder.
    It's actually a similar philosophy to their "favor the shooter" mentality. It's very hard, in a first person game, to judge the precise range of a melee hit. As a result, I could see the hitbox being considerably larger than the animation actually shows to ensure that the Reinhardt player doesn't get frustrated with missed attacks that he thinks should land.

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    Default Re: Overwatch: Boop!

    Sort of random, because I haven't experimented with it yet, is there a maximum distance/duration Genji can wall climb?
    And is it ever possible to gain elevation using Lucio's wall ride?
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    You know what would make for a great non-healing support? A dedicated buffer character. Because that's support. Why, exactly, they didn't include a dedicated buffer as a Support character confuses me, as it's a setup that only fits support and is a perfect demonstration of supporting without healing.

    Given some complaints from earlier in this thread(or was it the end of the last one?) having one ability be a temporary, AoE, speed boost would make them a useful pick meta-wise right off the bat, because you can balance this around accomplishing the thing people use Lucio's speed boost for: getting on the point ASAP.

    From there, you can focus on performing the non-healing role of the various healers, like having attacks deal minuscule or even no damage of their own, but applying a damage increasing debuff to enemies hit as a Zenyata competing ability, with a damage-increasing buff ability to edge out Mercy's damage boost.

    Generally, the idea is to have a character that serves as an introduction to the teamwork and character switching vital to playing Overwatch at higher levels, as well as a way to break imbalanced situations when the team pushes together. For higher level play balancing, it can be made to have weak points against pairs of heroes that would normally not work together well enough to be worth using, acting as a setup that forces the game into what is essentially a second meta altogether.

    I know this is somewhat inappropriate for this thread, and the idea of a push-stopping and choke-breaking hero designed to require a separate counterplay meta is something I understand to be utter nonsense.

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    Default Re: Overwatch: Boop!

    Quote Originally Posted by Togath View Post
    is there a maximum distance/duration Genji can wall climb?
    Yes, although in most cases the answer to "can I climb up this" is "yes." There are a few exceptions, but I can't recall exactly where at the moment. I believe the distance is about 6-7 meters though.

    And is it ever possible to gain elevation using Lucio's wall ride?
    Yes, but not on a single wall. If you jump to another wall and hit it higher than your current elevation, you'll ride the new wall at the higher elevation. If you find a corner where you can bounce between two walls, for example, you can reach the top of the objects in question.

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    Default Re: Overwatch: Boop!

    The Lucio thing makes me curious... could Genji jump/double jump back to the wall he was climbing to reset his maximum distance?
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