Please tell me we are not going to have to deal with getting the sword back again

[goodpeople25]

That would suggest a problem with Jedi ethics, if no one actually follows them.

While there's all the issues with canon and having a rather expansive (former) EU, plus it just being my interpretations but yeah I think that can very easily be said and pretty much what I was going for.

Edit: I was also going into Luke's time as well. (That one might be more EU though)

[NihhusHuotAliro]

And he cheats at the gambling, too.

I'm not sure if the DK Phantom Menace Visual Dictionary is still canon, but that one clearly says that Watto weights his die (chance cube) to fall on red.

Film-wise, it does move quite oddly, and we see three red sides, two blue sides, and the other side is unseen from the camera's point of view (so, there's a possibility of it being either 2 blue and 4 red or 3 blue and 3 red. If it's the former, that's also a bit of a swindle).

At least, going by the canon of the tie-ins to The Phantom Menace at the time, Watto was cheating.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I'm not sure if the DK Phantom Menace Visual Dictionary is still canon, but that one clearly says that Watto weights his die (chance cube) to fall on red.

Film-wise, it does move quite oddly, and we see three red sides, two blue sides, and the other side is unseen from the camera's point of view (so, there's a possibility of it being either 2 blue and 4 red or 3 blue and 3 red. If it's the former, that's also a bit of a swindle).

At least, going by the canon of the tie-ins to The Phantom Menace at the time, Watto was cheating.

I was fairly certain it was a loaded die in the film as well, from Watto's actions in the scene. But unless you intend to imply that Qui-Gon used the force to precisely counter the die's tendencies and left it to chance (rather than obviously picking the colour he wanted), he was still cheating, even if his opponent was also cheating. The other party's guilt doesn't cancel his own.

GW

[Douglas]

In the film, the sequence goes like this:

• The die starts rolling.
• It looks like it's about to stop on a side favoring Watto.
• Qui-gon makes a hand motion, similar to many other hand motions shown when a Jedi used the Force.
• The die, in clear defiance of what its previous motion suggested was going to happen, tips over one more time to a side favoring Qui-gon. It might have even changed direction to tip the right way, it's been a while since I watched that scene.

That's about as clearly "using the Force to cheat" as it could get without an explicit statement.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

That's about as clearly "using the Force to cheat" as it could get without an explicit statement.

To be fair [pun not intended], I don't think NihhusHuotAliro is arguing that Qui-Gon didn't use the force to change the die, just that the die was not a fair dice, and therefore that using the force on it doesn't count as cheating. Which I could see argued that since it wasn't a fair game of chance, there were no rules, and therefore you can't cheat at it since there are no rules to be broken. But that would require Qui-Gon to know in advance that the die was tricked.

GW

[Keltest]

To be fair [pun not intended], I don't think NihhusHuotAliro is arguing that Qui-Gon didn't cheat, just that the die was not a fair dice, and therefore that using the force on it doesn't count as cheating. Which I could see argued that since it wasn't a fair game of chance, there were no rules, and therefore you can't cheat at it since there are no rules to be broken. But that would require Qui-Gon to know in advance that the die was tricked.

GW

Between the Jedi's limited precognition and Watto's general sleazy character, I don't think its out of the question that he, if not knew exactly, at least assumed.

[pendell]

In the film, the sequence goes like this:

• The die starts rolling.
• It looks like it's about to stop on a side favoring Watto.
• Qui-gon makes a hand motion, similar to many other hand motions shown when a Jedi used the Force.
• The die, in clear defiance of what its previous motion suggested was going to happen, tips over one more time to a side favoring Qui-gon. It might have even changed direction to tip the right way, it's been a while since I watched that scene.

That's about as clearly "using the Force to cheat" as it could get without an explicit statement.

Concur. Qui-Gonn totally cheated because he was totally taking the force-sensitive child with midichlorian count off the scale back to Coruscant with him, NOT his normal mother.

And yet I would classify this as necessary evil/least evil. Leaving a proto-Jedi with that much potential as a slave on a desert planet isn't an option; the Force won't leave him alone to live an ordinary life. He might become a conqueror or a tyrant left to himself in that environment.

And if he hadn't cheated to take Anakin along he'd have had to do even more illegal things in order to take him; kidnapping Anakin, perhaps, or even killing Watto.

All things considered, tricking Watto was not only the path of least resistance, it got Qui-Gonn what he needed with less risk and less damage to innocents than an alternative course, which would mean taking Anakin by force or deception from an unwilling Watto.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Peelee]

Between the Jedi's limited precognition and Watto's general sleazy character, I don't think its out of the question that he, if not knew exactly, at least assumed.

Yet he trusted Watto's general sleazy character when Watto told him nobody else would have the parts he needed.

[Keltest]

Yet he trusted Watto's general sleazy character when Watto told him nobody else would have the parts he needed.

Theyre on a planet so far out in the middle of nowhere that the biggest cash crop is water, and is sufficiently removed from the majority of civilization that the largest reaching currency doesn't reach them. The fact that anybody has the parts they need is a miracle unto itself.

[Peelee]

Theyre on a planet so far out in the middle of nowhere that the biggest cash crop is water, and is sufficiently removed from the majority of civilization that the largest reaching currency doesn't reach them. The fact that anybody has the parts they need is a miracle unto itself.

Let alone literally the first place they go to, which they explicitly call out as one of the smaller dealers.

It's almost as if all the writing up to that point kind of indicate that the part isn't all that rare.

[Keltest]

Let alone literally the first place they go to, which they explicitly call out as one of the smaller dealers.

It's almost as if all the writing up to that point kind of indicate that the part isn't all that rare.

The Force is both a genius and horrific writing device in that it can be used to justify just about any coincidence. Qui-gon seems like he is winging it based on his feelings of The Force on that entire planet to me. He has a "don't worry, it will get sorted out" attitude that most D&D players struggle to run with, but it does work out because he is more or less getting the script whispered in his ear when he decides what to do next.

[Peelee]

The Force is both a genius and horrific writing device in that it can be used to justify just about any coincidence. Qui-gon seems like he is winging it based on his feelings of The Force on that entire planet to me. He has a "don't worry, it will get sorted out" attitude that most D&D players struggle to run with, but it does work out because he is more or less getting the script whispered in his ear when he decides what to do next.

Well, until he gets stabbed. And then virtually every Jedi dies simultaneously.

No argument on the "both genius and horrific writing device" part, though it tended to get more horrific the older Lucas got.

[CrazyCop]

What has this thread become

[Peelee]

What has this thread become

There's a reason for my sig.

[Ruck]

I could definitely use a feature on this site that unsubscribes me from threads once they devolve into Star Wars talk.

[Vinyadan]

And yet I would classify this as necessary evil/least evil. Leaving a proto-Jedi with that much potential as a slave on a desert planet isn't an option; the Force won't leave him alone to live an ordinary life. He might become a conqueror or a tyrant left to himself in that environment.

Good thing he just became the a tyrant's henchman!

Well, until he gets stabbed. And then virtually every Jedi dies simultaneously.

No argument on the "both genius and horrific writing device" part, though it tended to get more horrific the older Lucas got.

I think there was a scene in which Yoda said that the dark side had gotten so thick, he couldn't see clearly anymore.

[Darth V]

I could definitely use a feature on this site that unsubscribes me from threads once they devolve into Star Wars talk.

And I need quite the opposite thing: Some stuff which alerts me of every thread that goes on a Star Wars tangent!


Re: Loaded die in The Phantom Menace:

I can't cite any sources, but IIRC the die was supposed to be only one side with blue (for Anakin) and the remaining five sides with red. The way Watto waves the die in front of Qui-Gon (and in extension to the audience) means he at least is honest about it being loaded. He mentions it to be a special lucky die so I think it's supposed to be the equivalent to "You only win the bet/game if you throw a six/one/whatever with your first try".

[NihhusHuotAliro]

Again, unsure if my source is still Canon, but DK's Star Wars Episode I: Incredible Cross-Sections says that Nubian parts, such as the Nubian 327 hyperdrive, "are often sought out by galactic royalty and discriminating buyers".

Additionally, it says that the specific silvery chrome finish of the queen's Royal Starship signifies it as the unique diplomatic vessel of the Naboo monarchy. Sort of an Air Force One. The yellow-and-chrome paint of the Naboo starfighters (one of which we see Anakin pilot) signify a ceremonial escort guard, a military ship subordinate in rank to the all-Chrome Royal Starship.

No wonder Qui-Gon can't sell the ship and buy a cheaper one (and maybe try to free Shni with the money left over), not only is it not his to sell, it's too identifiable and obvious. I mean, he only shows Watto a colorless hologram of the ship.

(There's a lot of great information in that book. For example, a certain shade of scarlet red indicates a diplomatic or ambassadorial vessel. Like the red ship that transports the Jedi in the beginning, or the red stripes on the Tantive IV in the original Star Wars).

[Peelee]

Again, unsure if my source is still Canon, but DK's Star Wars Episode I: Incredible Cross-Sections says that Nubian parts, such as the Nubian 327 hyperdrive, "are often sought out by galactic royalty and discriminating buyers".

Additionally, it says that the specific silvery chrome finish of the queen's Royal Starship signifies it as the unique diplomatic vessel of the Naboo monarchy. Sort of an Air Force One. The yellow-and-chrome paint of the Naboo starfighters (one of which we see Anakin pilot) signify a ceremonial escort guard, a military ship subordinate in rank to the all-Chrome Royal Starship.

No wonder Qui-Gon can't sell the ship and buy a cheaper one (and maybe try to free Shni with the money left over), not only is it not his to sell, it's too identifiable and obvious. I mean, he only shows Watto a colorless hologram of the ship.

(There's a lot of great information in that book. For example, a certain shade of scarlet red indicates a diplomatic or ambassadorial vessel. Like the red ship that transports the Jedi in the beginning, or the red stripes on the Tantive IV in the original Star Wars).

A.) Well that makes sense. What small junk dealer in a backwater planet wouldn't have parts highly sought after by galactic royalty?

2.) I doubt that Naboo royalty diplomatic colors are universal common knowledge. Would you be able to identify a diplomatic plane from Austria, for instance? And we have way fewer countries than they have planets.

[Keltest]

A.) Well that makes sense. What small junk dealer in a backwater planet wouldn't have parts highly sought after by galactic royalty?

Jabba the Hutt lives on Tattoine. Its actually somewhat plausible that there is at least a small market for upper class starships out there.

2.) I doubt that Naboo royalty diplomatic colors are universal common knowledge. Would you be able to identify a diplomatic plane from Austria, for instance? And we have way fewer countries than they have planets.

This however is possibly true, but since Naboo is apparently in the vicinity of Tattoine, its possible they are at least passingly familiar with it.

[Deathhappens]

I could definitely use a feature on this site that unsubscribes me from threads once they devolve into Star Wars talk.

Au contraire, I could use a feature on this site that automatically subscribes me to threads once they devolve into Star Wars talk.
I mean, look... I missed this one, and it was all interesting and stuff too.

[Darth Paul]

That would suggest a problem with Jedi ethics, if no one actually follows them.

Remedial course on Jedi ethics, they need.

[137beth]

Remedial course on Jedi ethics, Qui-Gon needs.

Remedial course on Jedi ethics, they need.

Hey, I already said that! Copying me is a violation of the Jedi code.

[Peelee]

Hey, I already said that! Copying me is a violation of the Jedi code.

Remedial course on Jedi ethics, Darth Paul needs.

[martianmister]

Hey, I already said that! Copying me is a violation of the Jedi code.

Considering you both copied a comic...

Remedial course on Jedi ethics, you both need.

[2D8HP]

I could definitely use a feature on this site that unsubscribes me from threads once they devolve into Star Wars talk.

And I need quite the opposite thing: Some stuff which alerts me of every thread that goes on a Star Wars tangent! .

I for one would love a "severe derailment" alert, for such things as:

Order of Stick threads, that go on for days about medieval carpentry,

Order of the Stick threads that spend pages discussing which days of the weeks correspond to which gods/goddesses.

How to get fit without going to a gym threads that become poetry quotations,

and...

I already killed a PC thread that creates a Cthulloid housecat god, complete with incantations!

So much beauty.

[Darth Paul]

Considering you both copied a comic...

Remedial course on Jedi ethics, you both need.

I sense a deep stirring in the sarcastic side of the Force...

Spoiler

Show

Also, mine wasn't copying, it was an homage.

I already killed a PC thread that creates a Cthulloid housecat god, complete with incantations!

There's a Cthulhuoid God of Housecats?

This was long overdue.

[Kantaki]

I for one would love a "severe derailment" alert, for such things as:

On this forum?
The alert would go 24/7.
Now if you inversed the polarity it might work.
Would make more sense too.
Threads that stay on-topic are dreadfully boring.

[2D8HP]

...Now if you inversed the polarity it might work.
Would make more sense too.
Threads that stay on-topic are dreadfully boring.

Preach it!


Also, I hate threads that stay on topic.

[NihhusHuotAliro]

First, sell the sword, then go to a place where you won't be found. Summon the sword. Repeat, and make lots of money.