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Thread: The Aid Spell

  1. - Top - End - #31
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Beholder

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    Default Re: The Aid Spell

    Quote Originally Posted by BiPolar View Post
    Very good point, and Jeremy Crawford agrees with you:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy Crawford, SageAdvice
    Disciple of Life benefits healing—the restoration of hp you've lost. Aid doesn't heal you. It gives you more hp.
    I stand corrected and begin my walk of shame.
    Well, I guess that settles it for my gaming group. Our group tends to use the Sage Advice.

    Thanks for that find BiPolar.
    Last edited by xroads; 2017-03-16 at 09:56 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #32
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: The Aid Spell

    Quote Originally Posted by xroads View Post
    Well, I guess that settles it for my gaming group. Our group tends to use the Sage Advice.

    Thanks for that find BiPolar.
    No worries, as others have said I can see the other side of the argument, but it really makes it a stretch now. And with so many other spells benefitting from it, the difference appears to be enough.

  3. - Top - End - #33
    Troll in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: The Aid Spell

    Quote Originally Posted by Deleted View Post
    The spell not only increases your Max HP but gives you HP. Basic English being used, you are restoring someone's HP with aid as restoring and increasing is no different.

    Arguing semantics is silly in 5e as it is based off plain English. Though the devs for 5e (typically post purge) can't make up their mind on just how much plain English 5e really wants to use.
    I love how some people try to justify some useless munchkinism by hiding behind so-called "English synonyms", then saying that every argument against is just silly.

    1. We are talking about mechanics, which are described with words. Hence, each word is important, and word consistency is equally important.

    2. WoTC made sure to have consistency throughout the PHB: all "healing" spells specify they make targets "regain" HP. Aid is about increasing the total pool.
    That the current number of HP is affected in both cases is irrelevant.
    See it as floor slabs put on the ground of a very big room.
    When "regaining HP", it's like repairing some of the slabs that were already put, but broken.
    When "increasing HP", you don't touch at all the existing slabs, but you put new ones besides.

    3. Yet another hit, in Life Domain benefit description: "when you restore hit points to the creature, the creatures regains additional hit points."
    This does show further that you target spells that have a "regain hit point" effect.
    Aid is not akin to "restoring" it's akin to "adding", which are different things.

    >>> Allowing Life Cleric benefit is not in any way game breaking and instead give some love to an underrated spell, so you are welcome to allow it (or ask your DM to allow it).
    But it is a clear houserule imo. Although you are welcome to ask for official answer on this. :)
    Last edited by Citan; 2017-03-16 at 10:16 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #34
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: The Aid Spell

    Quote Originally Posted by Citan View Post
    >>> Allowing Life Cleric benefit is not in any way game breaking and instead give some love to an underrated spell, so you are welcome to allow it (or ask your DM to allow it).
    But it is a clear houserule imo. Although you are welcome to ask for official answer on this. :)
    Official answer provided above :) But yes, it seems like a houserule contrary to the official wouldn't be gamebreaking.

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: The Aid Spell

    Quote Originally Posted by gfishfunk View Post
    The only thing I definitely disagree with here is that the spell is lackluster. Its actually really good. Don't look at it as five hp NOW. Look at it as 5 hp over and over again throughout the adventuring day.
    It's actually 15 HP over the entire 8 hours. It is a multi-target spell, after all. That also means a level 3 upcast, it's actually 30 HP over the 8 hours, and so on.

    That also means that Disciple of Life isn't 2+Level, it's 3(2+Level) for a single slot, whereas before the houserule the earliest that was possible was Mass Healing Word. Certainly can make the case that it doesn't break Life Cleric at Lifeing, but it's a consideration since it doesn't fit the current model.

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: The Aid Spell

    Quote Originally Posted by BiPolar
    I stand corrected and begin my walk of shame.
    It may not feel that way, but there's no shame in recognizing an error and correcting for it.

  7. - Top - End - #37
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: The Aid Spell

    The arguments over 'basic English', with some posters asserting things about the meaning of words that are simply not true, might have an explanation.

    Recently it has come to light over here in the west that Russia and countries around there equate 'homosexual' with 'pedophile'. This is simply not the case; being attracted to members of your own gender is not the same thing as being attracted to children.

    So why do these countries adamantly stick to their 'they are the same thing!' point of view?

    It turns out that they use the same word in their languages for both 'homosexual' and 'pedophile', and that makes it difficult for them to think of these things as two separate things.

    It may be that in some non-English languages their words for 'regain' and 'increase' really are synonyms, or even the exact same word, leading them to make the same (incorrect) assumption that English must work like that too.

    Any thoughts?

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: The Aid Spell

    Quote Originally Posted by Arial Black View Post
    The arguments over 'basic English', with some posters asserting things about the meaning of words that are simply not true, might have an explanation.

    Recently it has come to light over here in the west that Russia and countries around there equate 'homosexual' with 'pedophile'. This is simply not the case; being attracted to members of your own gender is not the same thing as being attracted to children.

    So why do these countries adamantly stick to their 'they are the same thing!' point of view?

    It turns out that they use the same word in their languages for both 'homosexual' and 'pedophile', and that makes it difficult for them to think of these things as two separate things.

    It may be that in some non-English languages their words for 'regain' and 'increase' really are synonyms, or even the exact same word, leading them to make the same (incorrect) assumption that English must work like that too.

    Any thoughts?
    Well, this really is just semantics.

    It may be the case that some bigoted Russian translated homosexual into "pervert" and pervert is used by other bigots worldwide to describe both homosexuals and pedophiles. But the underlying concepts: homosexual, pedophile, and pervert are not really being disputed. The problem is entirely about the meanings of the words (not disagreement over the concepts they point toward), so it is a semantic argument.

    What's worse is the attitude ascribed to by some that the everyday use of a word is just as legitimate as it's its definition. This is an ill-advised way to consider language, and to communicate, and your example makes this pretty clear.

    edit: The concepts "regain" and "increase" are not equivalent, and can't be (despite the fact that sometimes the results of the two are the same). So it is always wrong to equate the concepts, regardless of the words you use to describe the concepts.
    Last edited by BurgerBeast; 2017-03-17 at 03:38 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #39
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Aid Spell

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarii View Post
    Definitely not healing. All healing spells specify you regain hit points. Aid goes out of it's way to say it increases your current hit point total. And, as noted, the number added to the current hit point total will go down by the same amount when the spell ends, unlike healing spells.
    If what you say is correct.

    Then the equation is still 0 + 5 = 5

    As you are increasing your current hit point total by 5

    This is simple math, how can you get confused ?

  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: The Aid Spell

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