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2017-03-29, 06:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2005
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- Rexburg, ID
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Remote administration of a laptop
I am setting up a Windows 10 laptop for my kids to use when we talk remotely. I want to have full control of the thing, including powering up and down (if possible) and certainly logging in and out. That way, they only have to keep it charged and I can do everything else (I suspect powering up is something that will have to be done manually, but that's fine). It keeps my ex away from it since I do not plan to hand over the pw.
Any suggestions for both free and paid services? I'd like to avoid any subscriptions, but if there's a solid one-time paid program I can use, I'm all ears.
Thanks in advance!Similes are like metaphors.
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2017-03-30, 02:50 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
Re: Remote administration of a laptop
What you want is not, to the best of my knowledge, possible to achieve, for the simple reason that if the hardware is physically in someone else's hands they can do undesired things with it when it's offline -- including booting it into a state where it cannot be remotely controlled, and where your control can be disabled.
It is possible to establish remote access to a computer, and has been for as long as we've had mainframes and terminals. If nothing else, ssh exists; more familiarly, there are a host of programs designed to let a remote tech support person see your screen and pass keyboard and mouse input to your computer. Note the word "let". None of these are designed to prevent someone sitting at the computer from physically disconnecting it from the network and reestablishing local control over the machine, for security reasons if nothing else.
There may be ways to make certain kinds of local access more difficult (below a certain minimal level of malicious intent and computer skills), but ultimately, if the box is out of your hands so is the ability to absolutely control its use.Last edited by Trekkin; 2017-03-30 at 02:51 AM.
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2017-03-30, 09:36 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2013
Re: Remote administration of a laptop
Basically what Trekkin says. With physical access no machine is entirely secure. In Linux you could probably lock it securely enough it takes someone of considerable skill to get at it, but you can't stop it being unplugged basically. So, in a sense no one would then have access.
Additionally, what you want is something that requires corporate versions of Windows10 and fairly extensive knowledge of networking and computer administration. And being Windows 10 it's trivial to physically disturb this. Provided decent computer knowledge and the ability check the net.
You can most likely do most of the things you want through UltraVNC e.g. (or any other vnc client) It allows you to log in remotely to log into windows eg. So wouldn't need to give out the passwords to kids eg. Just need to be hooked up to net, and powered on (heck with Win10, it might never shut off completely).
What you cannot do is guarantee nobody else tampering with the computer, that has physical access to it. Ie overriding the password, removing the VNC client, etc etc etc.
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2017-03-30, 11:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2005
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- Rexburg, ID
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Re: Remote administration of a laptop
Lucky for me, my ex is no great shakes at technical stuff, though I am less concerned about the security. If I simply do not give her the admin password, she won't even be able to get into Safe Mode, which would be a challenge for her to think of in the first place.
I am more interested in having a remote control tool that allows me to connect before someone logs in so I can remotely enter the pw to access the machine. Legally, she can't block access to or tamper with a computer I provide, and if she tries, she will get into legal trouble, so hard locking the machine security is not as big of a deal for me.
If I can tell her that she doesn't have to do anything when I need something installed because all she has to do is turn it on and I do the rest, that is ideal.Last edited by Varen_Tai; 2017-03-30 at 11:59 AM.
Similes are like metaphors.
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2017-03-30, 03:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
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- Manchester, UK
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Re: Remote administration of a laptop
If what you mainly want is the ability to connect remotely to the machine to enter the password, surely something like VNC will do the job? Although you should consider that once the machine is logged on there's nothing stopping your ex tempting the kids away with promises of sweets and then searching the machine for anything she cares to look for, so I'm really not sure what benefit this gets you over just giving the kids the password (and maybe changing it every time the machine comes back from her house).
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2017-03-30, 03:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
Re: Remote administration of a laptop
Setting aside both the legalities surrounding your software needs (which we can't discuss) and your opinion of your ex-wife's technical acumen (which we can't verify), it sounds like maybe your intentions for this machine are at loggerheads.
There are good reasons that there is not readily available software to irreversibly place a computer totally under the uncontested control of some remote user: that is the essence of several particularly damaging types of malware, and building an operating system to facilitate that level of control would be a huge security flaw. Besides, if you try to make the machine lock itself down and stick its fingers in its ears and ignore all inputs by the end users until you permit it to function, you're committing yourself to taking those barriers down whenever anything in that authorization process breaks and needs user input to right itself. I don't know how much time you want to spend doing that whenever the Ethernet card malfunctions or something, but bear in mind that the tradeoff between security and inconvenience is not very mutable.
Really, I see two feasible options here. If you chiefly want a machine to serve as a terminal through which your children can VoIP/video call you, a VNC would allow you to serve as remote tech support, like snowblizz and factotum have said. Giving them user access and keeping a separate admin account would involve a lot of front-loaded pre-authorizations of necessary activity on your part, but it would be difficult for anything they do -- including nothing -- to break the machine in a way you could not remotely fix with minimal involvement on their part. You'd just have to trust your children not to circumvent the security measures and your ex not to do things she is already not allowed to do.
If, on the other hand, control is your paramount desire, the best thing I can think of is a computer on which you have the only account that can change or add user permissions, and I only know how to do that in Linux. You would control everything, certainly as it relates to software ; there's probably some way to tie screen and keyboard function into a tmux session or something, but I've never had a need to find out.
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2017-03-30, 05:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2014
Re: Remote administration of a laptop
I have no idea how to do what you want, so if all you want are straightforward solutions in Windows 10, you can skip my post.
My first reaction is that a Windows 10 laptop seems to be overkill if all you want the device to be used for is chat. If you already have one lying around, I can see why you'd want to use it rather than buy something else, but it seems like a fairly expensive thing with a lot of "overhead" to manage if all you actually need is "a box that does Skype/Google Hangouts/etc". This also makes it more likely that people in the household will want to use it for other things since it can do a lot of other things.
You might want to consider a cheap tablet instead. I think some tablets can be locked down in a "kid mode" that keeps them from being poked at by the end user and allow another tablet owned by an adult to manage them. I don't need anything like that personally so I haven't researched it, but if you're planning to purchase the laptop and haven't yet you might see if you can accomplish this more cheaply with a tablet-based solution. I've seen kids who are too young to speak in complete sentences open the apps they want on a tablet, so it's probably something your kids could do by themselves once the account and chat app were set up and they were shown how a few times (I have no idea how old your kids are, but I'm assuming fairly young since you don't seem to think having them manage the computer themselves is a good option).
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2017-03-30, 10:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2005
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- Rexburg, ID
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Re: Remote administration of a laptop
I need a machine that is cheap (I've settled on the HP Stream) and will allow basic web browsing since I intend to play board games on line with my 7 year old son, as well as using the website rabb.it to do streaming movies and shows at the same time. A tablet is not sufficient for the functionality needed for some of those websites, though some of the board games are available as apps.
I am not so worried about my ex's mal-intent, either. While we aren't exactly friendly, she's not the kind of person who would deliberately wreck the dedicated laptop the kids use to talk to Daddy. If she is going to make trouble, she'll do it in another way.
That means I don't need the complete lockdown - if I need to give her the admin password to do something, I'll give it to her and then change it on my next remote login. The remote is mainly to keep her out on a regular basis and mostly to not burden her with having to set anything up that I want for use with the kids. All she has to do is turn it on and walk away and I can do the rest.
I am needing a remote app that is always on and doesn't need any input or action from anyone with the laptop so that I can log it in myself. I know VNC works well once the end user gives permission for it, but I'm not sure if it can be set up to be always on even before a login.
Thoughts?Similes are like metaphors.
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2017-03-31, 02:24 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2013
Re: Remote administration of a laptop
It totally can. UltraVNC. http://www.uvnc.com/
I used to run it on what I called my "server" (it wasn't one, just the computer that had the sharing network card before coin dropped and I got a hub that just pretened to be th MAC adrress my expected me to have). Since it was in kitchen with no screen I needed to control it remotely. Once UltraVNC is installed in "the server" (IIRC that was name) it exists at boot and you can connect to it securely remotely. Start your client version of UltraVNC, put in the IP you want to reach, and credentials and you end up with the laptop's entire being in a small window, can type with it, your mouse moves cursor "serverside", and you can see everythign happening on screen so can even "monitor". . Which can be Windows log-in screen. As far as I can tell that will give you what you need. UltraVNC is free too, so go check it out, test it and see if you can make it work.
Did it internally so naturally somewhat easier, needs to be able to connect through a firewall so might need to allow up ports in a router.
Absolutely does That's the whole point of it.Last edited by snowblizz; 2017-03-31 at 02:43 AM.
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2017-03-31, 02:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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- Manchester, UK
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Re: Remote administration of a laptop
If the Windows version of VNC runs as a service then it should work whether a user is logged in or not. I don't actually know if that's the case, though.
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2017-03-31, 09:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Rexburg, ID
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2017-04-13, 07:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2005
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Re: Remote administration of a laptop
So does anyone have any other suggestions beyond UVNC?
I went there and found the documentation to be incomprehensible, and the community is largely dead. I tried to post a question and after over 24 hours with no admin approval to even allow it up, I'm looking around for another option, unless someone here is tech savvy enough to help me through a proper install.
Some more details - I need it installed as a service and something that does not require an IP address to connect since this laptop will travel to other locations and I need to be able to control said laptop before login since no one else will have the password to get the IP address.
Thanks bunches!Similes are like metaphors.
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2017-04-13, 08:24 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
Re: Remote administration of a laptop
I found the UVNC documentation to be very clearly written; there is a certain level of jargon-laden complexity inherent to anything involving Internet protocols, but that is no fault of theirs. What part of it was unclear to you?
Not being able to use the server IP address is going to make this much more difficult. I can think of a couple ways to accommodate that, but they're all going to involve, at the very least, running a batch file at boot -- and, since you don't want to let anyone log on to allow that to run the normal way, even that is harder and thus more brittle than usual. It certainly won't be more comprehensible than UVNC.
At this point, my suggestion is to give the password to whoever's going to be using the laptop, which sounds like your kids, and allowing them to log in so you can chat with them. It is, at the very least, the solution which presents the lowest technical barrier to entry. You don't need to control the remote computer to let the user do what you want them to do on it; at most, you might need to use the remote support software already built into Windows to handle the updates for them.Last edited by Trekkin; 2017-04-13 at 08:42 AM.
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2017-04-13, 09:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2005
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- Rexburg, ID
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Re: Remote administration of a laptop
Are all of the connect-to-another-PC based on using the IP address under the hood? I know several online services that connect through a website and don't use an IP address, but are they doing it all hidden like?
This is obviously not my forte, and I am trying to understand, but it seems to me that you should be able to set up a perma-connect between two machines that can operate regardless of the IP address, but maybe not.
One of the issues with UVNC is that they have 4 different products with no clear indicator as to what situations each of them are for. They are described, but I have no clue if they would be helpful in my situation. And that's before trying to set it up.
Anyhow, you may be right, that I need to do a more basic setup where the folks on the other end can login to the computer and give me the IP address so I can get in, but I hate that option for many reasons. If there's a way to give me more direct access, that is ideal.
Though a quick thought - if the laptop stays in the same place for 90% of the time, wouldn't that mean its IP address would remain the same? Allowing me to get in most of the time without needing them to help with the proper setup?Similes are like metaphors.
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2017-04-13, 09:21 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
Re: Remote administration of a laptop
Yes, those services use the relevant machines' IP addresses, although it is possible to do so indirectly (e.g. via a website). To receive anything through the Internet, a machine needs an IP address, just as a phone needs a phone number in order to be called. It is possible for two machines to communicate without knowing each other's IP addresses if both addresses are known by a third party, which is how the services you describe operate, but they cannot give you access to a machine before it goes online -- and, of course, both machines need to be able to give their current IP addresses to that third party.
As to UVNC's programs, they do have a general knowledge section that goes through what each of their programs do. You need the server and viewer programs at the very least.
Just because a machine stays in the same physical location is no guarantee that its IP address will stay the same, particularly if it is shut off as often as a laptop is.
Allowing them to log in is the simplest and most robust solution, and the one the software involved has been designed to support. Doing anything else is going to be much more complicated, as you've seen -- which is not inherently insurmountable but does have more that can go wrong where you can't reach to fix it. At least this way if the computer goes completely haywire you can call them up and talk them through rebooting it and restoring from backup.Last edited by Trekkin; 2017-04-13 at 09:27 AM.
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2017-04-13, 10:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2005
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- Rexburg, ID
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Re: Remote administration of a laptop
OK, that is very helpful. As I am pondering it, I can solve my problem of giving my ex unlimited access to a machine I own by changing the pw after every session with the kids, and then telling them the new pw at the beginning of every session. That allows them to log in and do our thing, but keeps them out in the interim.
So now this brings me to my question again - what UVNC service would allow me access to the machine (including sending Ctrl-Alt-Del type key combos through the session) the best? I'm still confused. :)Similes are like metaphors.
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2017-04-13, 11:12 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
Re: Remote administration of a laptop
I'm sorry I was unclear: my suggestion was that you give your kids and your ex access to a user account on the machine. No remote locking of the machine, no password changing, just let them log on whenever they want with no involvement from your end. Yes, this means that you do not have absolute control over the use of the machine and cannot kick anyone you don't like off of it, but it is also the best and most reliable way to ensure that you can use it for the purpose you intend and lets as many people as possible fix it if it should break.
Ultimately, you must decide whether people being able to access the machine without your oversight is a bigger problem for you than you not being able to talk to your children with it. Absent significant effort and specialized technical acumen, the two options are in large part mutually exclusive; given both, it becomes barely and ephemerally possible for the two to coexist until something breaks down.
Regarding the programs you need: the documentation includes a detailed description of what the programs do. Without detailed knowledge of your network configuration, I cannot determine which programs will be required to meet your needs with any more specificity than I already have -- which is, as I said above, that UNVC requires both the server and viewer programs to work. Several of their ease-of-use wrappers need the server user to consent to their computer being controlled, which would not seem congruent with the level of control you want, but only your familiarity with port forwarding relative to the structural complexity of the networks involved will dictate whether or not you must make use of the repeater program and if so with which mode.
It might be helpful for you to familiarize yourself with the technical underpinnings of RBF in the abstract so the man pages are less opaque.Last edited by Trekkin; 2017-04-13 at 11:16 AM.
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2017-04-13, 02:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2005
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- Rexburg, ID
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Re: Remote administration of a laptop
I got a good solution!
teamviewer.com
Personal use is free - it installs a program on both machines, and the server machine runs as a service. The viewer can remotely access whenever the other PC is online, and can even reconnect immediately upon a reboot if a reboot is required.
It easily connects across different networks, and basically works exactly as I needed something to. Yay! Highly recommended for anyone looking for the same thing. :)Last edited by Varen_Tai; 2017-04-14 at 11:51 AM.
Similes are like metaphors.
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2017-04-14, 04:53 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
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- Germany (North)
Re: Remote administration of a laptop
So... not a single mention of TeamViewer? That one seems to do everything you desire, including being installable as a service so it runs on every boot and being able to remote access a computer without knowing their IP. Can also be locked down so it cannot be disabled. It's free for private use, but automatically disconnects after 3 hours at a time. (You can immediately reconnect. It's just a minor hassle they built in as an incentive to get the paid version.)
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2017-04-14, 11:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2005
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- Rexburg, ID
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