[Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

[EldritchWeaver]

I'm having fun pouring over the book to find all the post-playtest changes, though if one of the devs felt like giving a brief overview, that would be ok, too.

If you find something noteworthy, then feel free to post this here by yourself. ;)

[NomGarret]

Well, for starters, most Discipline talents just give proficiency now, and not the small, scaling bonuses. The ones that add an enabling clause still seem to do so.

[Galacktic]

So as this is relevant to a character in an upcoming game, what's the feat cost for the adept track since Expert isn't a thing, then?

[Ssalarn]

So as this is relevant to a character in an upcoming game, what's the feat cost for the adept track since Expert isn't a thing, then?

According to our errata document that would be-

Pg. 10 (9): Change the Adept progression exchanged feats to 1, 3, 5, 9, 11, 13, 17, 19.

Proficient remains the same and as already noted, we're not currently planning on retaining the Expert progression since it wasn't really intended to be in the book in the first place.

[Slavezero]

could someone explain the choke hold wrestling talent to me? i want to make sure i have this right. if i can grab them without them having held they're breath they immediately start to suffocate and need to make con checks or drop unconscious or do i have that wrong?

i'd like if someone could answer this please. or is this something i have to ask my GM?

[Ssalarn]

i'd like if someone could answer this please. or is this something i have to ask my GM?

Sorry, I wasn't trying to ignore you but I needed to get in touch with the talent's author and see what was supposed to be happening here.
Essentially there was a fundamental misunderstanding of how suffocation worked and as written, Choke Hold is an insta-win against any creature that didn't know to hold their breath before being grappled, much stronger than the author intended. Since removing the text preventing someone from holding their breath would make the ability so time consuming as to be impractical and a less-than-great use of a talent, it's likely that the talent will be pulled entirely before we go to print.

[AlienFromBeyond]

Just for confirmation, does the bit about being able to trade casting (including spherecasting) for SoM progression apply to SoP classes (such as Armorist or Mageknight) as well? And in the case of giving up spherecasting for SoM, do you give up both the Casting and Spell Pool class features, or just Casting? I was hoping to trade casting for SoM talents on Mageknight while still having spell points to fuel Mystic Combats (very gish-y, no overt magic but instead a powerfully augmented by magic martial), but now I'm doubting that that is even possible.

[stack]

Just for confirmation, does the bit about being able to trade casting (including spherecasting) for SoM progression apply to SoP classes (such as Armorist or Mageknight) as well? And in the case of giving up spherecasting for SoM, do you give up both the Casting and Spell Pool class features, or just Casting? I was hoping to trade casting for SoM talents on Mageknight while still having spell points to fuel Mystic Combats (very gish-y, no overt magic but instead a powerfully augmented by magic martial), but now I'm doubting that that is even possible.

The CotS playtest should have a better alternative to that when it goes live in the near future. I will let another team member answer the actual question though.

[AlienFromBeyond]

The CotS playtest should have a better alternative to that when it goes live in the near future.

That's a good point, I look forward to that.

[Mehangel]

The CotS playtest should have a better alternative to that when it goes live in the near future. I will let another team member answer the actual question though.

I am also curious because both the Mageknight and Armorist have Key class features that rely on spell points. Again, I dont mind losing 'Casting' and 'Magic Talents' class features, but if spherecasting classes also lose the 'Spell Pool' class feature, it can potentially gut more class features than intended.

[Mithril Leaf]

Wouldn't it make sense for the Unarmed Training (at the least, arguable also Gun Kata and Monk Weapon Training) talent from the Equipment Sphere to count as an Unarmed Talent for the purpose of increasing your Unarmed Damage? Also maybe Drunken Boxer from the Barroom Sphere. Also checking, but the ability to count as a size larger on that same damage table from being a Monk or Brawler does or does not stack with other size increases?

[Slavezero]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to ignore you but I needed to get in touch with the talent's author and see what was supposed to be happening here.
Essentially there was a fundamental misunderstanding of how suffocation worked and as written, Choke Hold is an insta-win against any creature that didn't know to hold their breath before being grappled, much stronger than the author intended. Since removing the text preventing someone from holding their breath would make the ability so time consuming as to be impractical and a less-than-great use of a talent, it's likely that the talent will be pulled entirely before we go to print.

will it be reworked or replaced or are you just removing it? maybe change it so it cuts how long they can hold they're breath by half or something?

[Aipaca]

Anyone have a character sheet that works well with Spheres? I use the Neceros fillable PDF one currently but putting all of the relevant SoM info in there is a bit of a pain.

[stack]

I use mythweavers and assign each sphere a number. By having a prefix number the spheres sort better. Base sphere is number-sphere, talent is number(space)talent. Also allows you to track differing DCs in the DC by spell level area. Don't know for printed sheets or other formats.

[Cranky Mcduff]

Throwing Mastery. How does this resolve with multiple attacks(Barrage Sphere or iterative attacks for example)? Can you do all of those attacks with one weapon? Do you need multiple weapons? Tongue in cheek, but how do you bounce a javelin off of someone?

Bought the pdf and I'm loving it so far. Money well spent, thank you!

Side note: if there is an official question thread could someone point me to it?

[Aipaca]

I use mythweavers and assign each sphere a number. By having a prefix number the spheres sort better. Base sphere is number-sphere, talent is number(space)talent. Also allows you to track differing DCs in the DC by spell level area. Don't know for printed sheets or other formats.

Thanks, I'll check it out.

Been looking over the Conscript a lot, and I feel like the Sphere Specialisations are pretty weak for the ~7 feats you are giving up to get them. Would it be too late to make Sphere Spec. worth 2 points? I realise that you guys have done a lot of playtesting with everything, but I can't for the life of me work out how it's worth it, especially considering as far as I can tell by RAW the answer to my next question is no.

For the "Conscript level+1=BAB for your specialised sphere" ability, does that stack with BAB you get from other classes? I understand that you are trying to not replicate the dipping heaven that is the Incanter, but it's definitely a bum deal if it doesn't stack.

Finally, does the aforementioned "Conscript level+1=BAB" ability include for attack actions associated with a Sphere, eg. a Deadly Shot?

Thanks again, loving SoM so far.

[Ualaa]

I'm using the Hero Lab app, which obviously is Spheres of Power but not Spheres of Might (yet).

The print out doesn't include spheres in the spells section, but you get the full descriptions in 'Abilities' if you want the long print out.

The Spheres tab has everything you'd want available, but that's assuming you have a laptop with you, or something similar.

[EldritchWeaver]

Bestial Training is confusing me. It sounds at first that you choose a natural weapon at the point of time, when you take the feat, but the rest of text implies that you can and need to choose different natural weapons during an attack. So what is the intention?

[Galacktic]

Question about Duelist! Does its bleed stack with itself? Talking about the base sphere ability, does activate that bleed on a single opponent multiple times stack so you go from say, 2 to 4 to 6...thanks in advance!

[AlienFromBeyond]

Bleed never stacks unless it specifically states otherwise. That's just a default of Pathfinder itself.

[Mehangel]

In the Open Hand sphere there are a couple of talents that purposefully make yourself prone against creatures within melee range, and yet I see no talent that removes or reduces the -4 penalty to AC for being prone (There is a talent that mitigates your penalty to attack rolls while prone). Any chance of a talent being added that resolves this issue?

[EldritchWeaver]

Vanish doesn't allow to ignore the cover requirement as Hellcat Stealth does, even though it should. Hellcat Stealth should be associated, too.

[Lirya]

Options for mundane stealth that ignores cover/concealment can quickly become disruptive in play in my experience. But adding a clause allowing you to combine Vanish with Walk Unseen to ignore the cover/concealment requirement every other round seems appropriate and fair.

[N. Jolly]

Bestial Training is confusing me. It sounds at first that you choose a natural weapon at the point of time, when you take the feat, but the rest of text implies that you can and need to choose different natural weapons during an attack. So what is the intention?

I thought this was getting moved over to the monster section, but after discussion, it's probably going to be dropped, as it was meant as a way to allow more attacks, and we've decided that wouldn't be for the best here.

In the Open Hand sphere there are a couple of talents that purposefully make yourself prone against creatures within melee range, and yet I see no talent that removes or reduces the -4 penalty to AC for being prone (There is a talent that mitigates your penalty to attack rolls while prone). Any chance of a talent being added that resolves this issue?

There is not, if there was it would be better to fight prone than to fight while standing, which wasn't something we wanted, as you still get the +2 to AC against ranged attacks. The attack penalty removal was to make prone fighting viable, removing the AC penalty would change that to optimal, which was something we wanted to avoid.

[EldritchWeaver]

Options for mundane stealth that ignores cover/concealment can quickly become disruptive in play in my experience. But adding a clause allowing you to combine Vanish with Walk Unseen to ignore the cover/concealment requirement every other round seems appropriate and fair.

What do you mean with "every other round"? Something like this?

Round 1: Hide everywhere. Round 2: Be seen. Round 3: Hide everywhere. Round 4: Be seen. Round 5: ...

That would not help at all.

I thought this was getting moved over to the monster section, but after discussion, it's probably going to be dropped, as it was meant as a way to allow more attacks, and we've decided that wouldn't be for the best here.

Maybe my understanding is incorrect, but I thought you wouldn't get additional attacks, but instead can substitute unarmed strikes with a natural weapon. How is that unbalanced?

[Mehangel]

On the subject of Champions of the Spheres, can you tell us of any changes to the Sage class? Mostly I am curious about the following:
- Has the Sage class been modified so to be given the 'Casting' class feature, so that it could
A) Gain a Casting Tradition (perhaps granting bonus ki points instead of spell points during levels where such would be gained)
B) Resolve issues with Sage characters who multiclass into other spherecasting classes.
C) Resolve issues for meeting spherecasting feat prerequisites? (including feats such as: Cantrips, Circle Casting, Contingency, Counterspell, Create Spellbook, Ritual Caster, Spellcrafting, etc)
- How many archetypes are currently being worked on for the Sage class (if any), and what do they do?

[NomGarret]

Maybe my understanding is incorrect, but I thought you wouldn't get additional attacks, but instead can substitute unarmed strikes with a natural weapon. How is that unbalanced?

That was my understanding of its function, to explicitly allow natural attacks in instances that would otherwise require unarmed attacks.

[Ssalarn]

That was my understanding of its function, to explicitly allow natural attacks in instances that would otherwise require unarmed attacks.

That was half the function, which we're planning on rolling into the Unarmed Training discipline alongside the other "treat these as unarmed strikes" weapons in that talent. The other pieces of the talent were both contradictory and potentially very out of line with the other talents and general design directive of the book, which is why we're looking at yanking the talent and shifting the piece we want to keep over.

[Mithril Leaf]

Oh hey, the Toolsmith ability of the Blacksmith still does literally nothing because it increases the competence bonus granted by Masterwork tools which do not and have not ever granted a competence bonus. I feel like this may be a byproduct of the book fetisihizing competence bonuses like DSP does to insight bonuses. For the record, they grant a circumstance bonus.

[EldritchWeaver]

Oh hey, the Toolsmith ability of the Blacksmith still does literally nothing because it increases the competence bonus granted by Masterwork tools which do not and have not ever granted a competence bonus. I feel like this may be a byproduct of the book fetisihizing competence bonuses like DSP does to insight bonuses. For the record, they grant a circumstance bonus.

Competence bonuses are problematic, because they prevent that you can use skill bonus items without wasting class features/talents. This prevents optimizing to the degree that you are able to beat low-op characters to 100% in opposed skill checks.

Also, I'm not really enamored with Great Senses and Read Foe. All they do is granting Perception/Sense Motive ranks per Hit Die. Evey other way to gain ranks is by a base sphere, which grants an additional bonus. So the sole reason to take those talents is that happen already to have their base sphere and one combat talent to spare (or even two talents to spare) and not enough skill points. I am missing currently some oomph for these.