[Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

[NomGarret]

CotS question: who exactly is eligible for a Unified Tradition? Would you need to be eligible for both a martial tradition and a casting tradition or not?

[AlephOzone]

The 'Firearm Proficiency' text for Black Powder Brawler archetype includes the following: "In addition, she gains the Improved Unarmed Fighting feat."

Is this meant to be the Improved Unarmed Strike feat? And if so, considering the new ruling that you can take a sphere or talent in place of it's associated feat... this doesnt really replace Bare Knuckles, it upgrades it.

[Hunter Noventa]

So, the changes are a lot to digest. Looking just at the Technician, the implementation of Greater Craftsman is something I find... questionable. I think that the only time the Technician's level should factor into the price of the item is for the HD of Independent Inventions. That is the only thing that really warrants a multiplier on the cost.

Giving that kind of multiplier on all inventions is something that should have been factored into the bonuses granted from the beginning and now completely devalues just about any invention that grants a skill bonus of any kind. Since most of them provide a bonus point every x levels no skill check is worth thousands of gp per bonus point. Such items should have been rebalanced to frontload the bonuses slightly to make such a selection more viable, or to at least overcome the invention use penalties.

Even improvements like Super Kick (and those with similar mechanics) that have a more dramatic benefit with level increase are already pre-balanced with their own mechanics, like move action charging limiting shots to once per round, not being able to use the damage bonus till the next round, attack penalties on the weapon for the presence of improvements, and requiring the steampower insight (a tax using a very limited resource, insights). All these things are already a balance, without having to hemorrhage out gp multipliers. Worse yet, this isn't just a multiplier for an individual improvement, but for all improvements, whether they benefit from it or not.

This leads to a weird disconnect when making items that seems to be completely at odds with the technological bent of the Technician. While each improvement comes off as something like an enhanced masterwork bonus (with increased utility but penalties for others to use) I can accept (conceptually) something like having a different cost for different improvements, but the current implementation messes even with that.

If an 11th level Technician wants to make a longsword with the Wire improvement it would cost him 500 gp in addition to the sword. If he wanted to make a Piston improved longsword (to get the +6d6) it would cost him an additional 5,500 gp. If he wanted to add a Wire to his Piston improved longsword it would cost him 11,000 gp over the longsword cost. 500 + 5,500 ≠ 11,000. Violating basic math is not a very Technician thing to do. It is this kind of thing that makes the current implementation a giant pile of frustration. Saying that the Invention needs to be made at a Technician level high enough for its total number of improvements is just insult to injury. Most of the improvements are fairly minor in actual power (enhanced masterwork, remember?) and a lot of them require multiple improvement selections (not higher Technician level) to increase their effects. You are applying geometric cost increases for linear benefits. I think that really is the wrong thing to do here. Inventions are (for the most part) not as powerful as magic items and shouldn't be priced as if they were.

I would strongly suggest changing the second paragraph of Greater Craftsman to...

"In addition to any other costs, a permanent invention costs 500 gp x the technician’s level per improvement to create. Independent Inventions have a special cost of 500 gp x (the technician’s level x the number of improvements). Crafting a permanent invention uses the same time crafting rules as magic items, and just as with magic items, the technician may decrease his effective technician level when creating a permanent invention and each improvement can be made at a different effective technician level (though all improvements on Independent Inventions must be the same level as its HD). A Technician cannot add more improvements to an item than he is normally capable of. The technician must be at least level 6 to gain this insight."

Does this mean that the Technician might be able to produce Inventions 'cheaply' enough to actually put them in the hands of people? Yes it does, almost like it is a form of technology. Can this unbalance the campaign with the castle guard or the PC's cohorts now armed with 4x improved weapons? Nope. Because these improvements have penalties and these 4x improved weapons also come with a -8 to hit penalty. Even if the Technician spends a precious insight on Aesthetic Insight then it still has a -4 penalty. Number of usable improvements already has inbuilt limitations, cost should not be one of them. If you are looking at these items as magic items then they are essentially cursed. That is not being taken into account with the current pricing. It needs to be.

That seems to have turned into a bit of a rant, for that I apologize. It just seems like permanent inventions erred so heavily on the side of caution that it broke.

I totally agree here, it feels like the independent inventions should have different cost scaling from normal inventions, and the items are essentially 'cursed'. I'll probably bring the cost up to my GM when I hit the level at which I can start building things for the party.

[Gobliin]

I m not sure I write in the good forum but I didn't know where to post it.

I found 2 mistake in the champion of sphere pdf, both in the troubadour section.

1) in the troubadour table, at level 7, it is written that it gain the superior actor ability but in the text they call it greater actor.

2) the flexible thruth ability in the is in itallic, but I think it should be in bold.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Technician (specifically Mechanical Arm) questions!

1. Can the Mechanical Arm independent invention wear appropriately-sized gloves or gauntlets?

2. Is there a penalty for wearing a Mechanical Arm larger than yourself? Normally it would be a penalty to hit with it, but it attacks on its own.

3. If independent inventions take their own actions, can the Technician benefit from Sphere abilities that work "when you make an attack action," or that tell them to do so, when using the arm's slam attack?

[Ssalarn]

CotS question: who exactly is eligible for a Unified Tradition? Would you need to be eligible for both a martial tradition and a casting tradition or not?

Anyone who has the option to take both a casting tradition and a martial tradition can instead take a unified tradition.


I know there's several other questions needing answers, but they seem to focus a lot on the Technician and Troubadour, which I had very little to do with, so I'm directing Adam this way.

[Adam Meyers]

1. Can the Mechanical Arm independent invention wear appropriately-sized gloves or gauntlets?

Yes

2. Is there a penalty for wearing a Mechanical Arm larger than yourself? Normally it would be a penalty to hit with it, but it attacks on its own.

I would argue that the usual penalty would apply there as well, not only because of balance but because while the arm is the thing making the attack, it's bracing itself against your under-sized body to do so.

3. If independent inventions take their own actions, can the Technician benefit from Sphere abilities that work "when you make an attack action," or that tell them to do so, when using the arm's slam attack?

When you are controlling an independent invention, it is the same as if you are the invention/it is a weapon in your hands. So the technician could use any spheres he possesses that activate when making an attack action by having the independent invention under his control make an attack action in his place.


While in the pilot seat, a character can be targeted by magic that does not require a form of attack or touch attack roll, but otherwise the pilot cannot be targeted by any form of attack until the independent invention itself is reduced to 0 hp. A target may attempt to target the pilot or wrestle them from the pilot seat, but only by entering the independent invention’s space and spending a full-round action climbing into the pilot’s seat themselves.

Multiple questions for this:

a) How does the ability to be targeted interact with the guardian sphere challenge? Since the suit and the pilot are separate creatures, would that mean challenged creature take the negatives of the challenge on all attack rolls, since they can never directly target the pilot?

The idea is that you and the suit are effectively the same creature; you use its size and weapons and hit points, but your spheres and talents and bab. So you could guardian the technician and his suit without having to differentiate between them.

b) Does this also protect you against incorporeal attacks like a ghost or a shadow?

A ghost or shadow could simply bypass the suit to reach you, so no.

b2) If yes, does this mean you cannot be touched by a healer to heal you, like with the life sphere (as long as the healer lacks the ranged healing talent)?

The healer could not touch 'you' because you are in a giant suit.

c) What about taking "covered" later? It's worse in every way for the guardian sphere case. It either makes you lose any way to interact with the outside, or it makes you targetable (unless that +8 cover ac is just there for show?).

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking here; the idea is that if someone is inside the vehicle, they are protected by the vehicle itself. If you take the improved cover only, you can be targeted and can target others. If you don't, you can't interact with the outside and it can't interact with you, except difficultly (think of it as the difference between being in a car during a car chase with the window up or the window down.)

- Does that mean any creature in your space can spend a full round action to climb into the seat without provoking an AoO?
- What happens to the pilot in that case?
- Are any checks involved?
- Is there an attack that happens somewhere after the one for entering someone's square?
- What about a creature larger than the suit? It can't legally "enter the seat", so how does it get to the squishy filling without being a dumb brute?

If someone spends the action required to climb into the seat, they are in the seat with you, fighting for control; they can attack you directly, or attempt a grapple and throw you bodily out. You can do the same to them. AoOs would be provoked for moving into your square, but not for entering the seat itself unless the suit was big enough that being in the suit's space and in the pilot's space were two different things. Creatures larger than the suit can't climb into the suit; they'd have to pull the pilot out the old fashioned way by tearing the suit in half first.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Alright, I’m clearly not understanding independent inventions at all. Could someone give a detailed rundown or link to one? I have a player wanting to use two mechanical arms in place of his own and from the talk of seats and both being able to take their own turns and the Technician effectively wielding them I’m confused

[Adam Meyers]

More Technician Things

if you target the pilot with a fireball, is the invention damaged, too?

The fireball would hit the suit from the outside, dealing damage to the suit but not the pilot until the suit is broken.

Autonomous Creations

Rather than have a separate invention for autonomous creations, they are now gainable va Electric Insight; electric controls, when given a second time, gives autonomy.

Greater Craftsman

Once the technician can create permanent inventions, cost is the ONLY thing that limits how many he can have. If the cost is too low, then the average technician effectively gets every single piece of his equipment improved from that moment on.

We considered balancing it that if he had too many inventions on himself at a time he suffered handling penalties like others do, but that's very easy to game, especially with independent inventions and other inventions that are not necessarily 'used' at the same time, and how would that work for things like weapons that you can switch between, meaning only one is active at a time? This was the biggest concern.

There was also the fact that with aesthetic invention and a feat on the part of each of the party members, all the penalties that limit invention effectiveness in the hands of others go away completely. True, that costs a talent/feat per party member, but the result is that gp is once again the ONLY limiter on how many inventions your party can have.

Excluding independent inventions entirely, that means every single person in the party can get:

• enhancement bonuses to Str or Dex given by their armor
• Flight
• an extra 10d6 damage usable on the first round and any subsequent round they have a space move action to prep first
• increased base weapon damage
• extra arms that attack on their own
• the ability to wield a shield and/or second weapon without
• and a lot more, all of which stack with the magic items the party usually is carrying around anyway.

So there was a lot of balancing to consider, including how effective inventions were without extra talents and feats vs how many feats/talents it took to unlock these improvements and specialized builds vs gp costs. At the end of the day we had to price inventions as much as a cheap magic item, otherwise the force multiplier of permanent inventions simply became too much too quickly.

[Adam Meyers]

Alright, I’m clearly not understanding independent inventions at all. Could someone give a detailed rundown or link to one? I have a player wanting to use two mechanical arms in place of his own and from the talk of seats and both being able to take their own turns and the Technician effectively wielding them I’m confused

There are two different things we're talking about: Giant Robots and Dr. Octopus from Marvel comics.

If you make an independent invention, you are in essence making a Giant Robot. You control the Giant Robot with your standard action, and that Giant Robot can be given an arm it can punch with.

If you make an improved backpack and give it the attached arm improvement, you are Dr. Octopus, with arms strapped to your back. You can give them a bonus improvement to make them as versatile as real arms, or you can give them a slam attack. You can make the attack with them as if they were a weapon you are wielding, or you can make them 'secondary attacks'; aka, you spend a swift action and they attack with a -5 penalty

[Dr_Dinosaur]

There are two different things we're talking about: Giant Robots and Dr. Octopus from Marvel comics.

If you make an independent invention, you are in essence making a Giant Robot. You control the Giant Robot with your standard action, and that Giant Robot can be given an arm it can punch with.

If you make an improved backpack and give it the attached arm improvement, you are Dr. Octopus, with arms strapped to your back. You can give them a bonus improvement to make them as versatile as real arms, or you can give them a slam attack. You can make the attack with them as if they were a weapon you are wielding, or you can make them 'secondary attacks'; aka, you spend a swift action and they attack with a -5 penalty

I have a player wanting to make a Halfling that punches people with his prosthetic robot arms. How can I make this happen for him and how big can the arms be? Which version lets him put gauntlets on them to use with Monk of the Silver Fist and the Shield sphere?

[NomGarret]

Anyone who has the option to take both a casting tradition and a martial tradition can instead take a unified tradition.


I know there's several other questions needing answers, but they seem to focus a lot on the Technician and Troubadour, which I had very little to do with, so I'm directing Adam this way.

I really feel this should be more explicit. It's clear you can't also take either a martial or casting tradition; but never says whether, say, an elementalist could take arcane archer.

[Cybershark]

More Technician Things

-snip-
There was also the fact that with aesthetic invention and a feat on the part of each of the party members, all the penalties that limit invention effectiveness in the hands of others go away completely. True, that costs a talent/feat per party member, but the result is that gp is once again the ONLY limiter on how many inventions your party can have.

-snip-

Okay I must be missing something, what feat do they have to take to get rid of the penalty to using a Technician's inventions?

[Dr_Dinosaur]

I really feel this should be more explicit. It's clear you can't also take either a martial or casting tradition; but never says whether, say, an elementalist could take arcane archer.

They can’t, because they don’t qualify for both. A Prodigy could though

[Quarian Rex]

More Technician Things
~ snip ~

So... the price structure of permanent inventions was balanced around a feat that apparently removes the penalties from invention use? And that feat has yet to be published (correct me if I am wrong)? For the love of the babby jebus man, releasing only half of a change is like kicking yourself, and us, in the nuts (especially on these boards). It results in nothing but shock, pain, and then recrimination.

Seriously though, that could change things quite a bit. What are the details of the feat and when/where will it be published?

And I apparently completely missed the autonomous upgrade to Electric Controls. Didn't see it in the patch notes and didn't think to recheck. My bad.

[Adam Meyers]

So... the price structure of permanent inventions was balanced around a feat that apparently removes the penalties from invention use? And that feat has yet to be published (correct me if I am wrong)? For the love of the babby jebus man, releasing only half of a change is like kicking yourself, and us, in the nuts (especially on these boards). It results in nothing but shock, pain, and then recrimination.

Seriously though, that could change things quite a bit. What are the details of the feat and when/where will it be published?

... it was supposed to be in Spheres of Might, which I just looked back over and somehow between the draft and the finished product, it disappeared. That's disconcerting, and I have to assume it was the result of me spacing, because the only other explanation I can think of is there was an error where it didn't save the draft properly?

The gist of it was that you could take a feat that divides your penalties when using a technician's inventions in half. Combined with a technician who's taken Aesthetic Insight, this reduces all penalties to 0, allowing the technician to hand his inventions out to party members without penalty, for those people who want to play support with their toys.

I will think on this missing content and what to do next about it and permanent inventions

@Dr_Dinosaur:

Improved backpack -> Attached Arms (2) -> Fine Manipulation. He'll have two mechanical arms that replace his natural arms that in all ways behave as normal arms. They would be sized for him and he could wear gauntlets, wield weapons, or in all ways treat them as normal arms. he could also give them slam attacks if he wants, but that would require another improvement, or else in place of Fine Manipulation in which case they could attack, but not wield weapons or shields.

There are no rules specific to making arms bigger than himself, so it would default to paizo standard rules if he wants to make himself some bigger arms; he'd get the attack penalty, as if he were wielding an oversized weapon.

[Gobliin]

Since the final print version of the book is send, you can always add a free add on pdf to your site or only a erra.

[Mehangel]

I will think on this missing content and what to do next about it and permanent inventions

The easiest solution, would probably be to just add the missing feat to Champion of the Spheres (which is still in pdf review). Alternatively, as Goblin said, you could just add it to the pdf and the DDS Website (under a new tab called Spheres of Might Errata).

[ChrisAsmadi]

Is a Black Powder Brawler Striker supposed to still use Con to determine max tension? Right now they only get Practitioner Modifier (via Determined Warrior), AC Bonus (via AC Bonus) and Striker Arts (via Firearm Fighter) swapped to Wis.

[sunderedhero]

I also have some questions regarding the Technician's Independent Inventions. Do the Mechanical Arm and Siege Engine have a movement speed? If not, say I take the Suit Pilot archetype and want to have a suit of power armor, I would need to take the Vehicle base form and the "Additional Capacity (Mechanical Arm)", "Advanced Arm", and "Suit" improvements. So I'd need to either wait till 5th level or 2nd level if I take the "Inventor’s Insight" insight, correct? Also since the Independent Inventions can take the Str-boosting Improved Invention (Mechanized Strength) shouldn't they also be able to take the Dex-boosting Improved Suit "Augmented Reflexes"?

I'd like to clarify a question that "kkplx" asked, I think he meant: If I use the "Suit" improvement it says that I can't be targeted directly, and can only be affected by AoE/Saving Throw spells. If I then take the "Covered" improvement I can no longer use the Invention to attack things since I can't see them unless I take a move action to create an opening. However doing so gives me Improved Cover but now allows anything to target the pilot directly. In addition it now provides Soft Cover to anything the pilot attacks and doesn't seem to actually protect the pilot from someone climbing into the pilot seat to throw him out. All in all "Covered" seems to be a really bad choice to take on a Suit invention.

Spoiler: Relevant Text

Show

Suit (Requires Mechanical Insight)

The invention is designed to sit one creature (the pilot) who controls the invention’s movements from the inside. The pilot must be the same size or smaller than the invention.

It takes a full-round action to get into or out of the pilot’s seat. Once inside, the pilot can control the vehicle’s movements and actions as if he himself were the invention (moving the invention as a move action, attacking with a weapon it possesses as a standard action, etc.). If the invention possesses an appropriate weapon, the pilot may even make attacks of opportunity. The pilot may still perform actions not related to the invention (for example, throwing a detonator or other gadget), but doing so means the pilot cannot use that same action to control the invention.

While in the pilot seat, a character can be targeted by magic that does not require a form of attack or touch attack roll, but otherwise the pilot cannot be targeted by any form of attack until the independent invention itself is reduced to 0 hp.

A target may attempt to target the pilot or wrestle them from the pilot seat, but only by entering the independent invention’s space and spending a full-round action climbing into the pilot’s seat themselves.


Covered

The invention must have either the vehicle form or the suit improvement to gain this improvement. This invention is designed to completely protect its passengers. All creatures inside of the invention gain total cover, but cannot interact or make attacks against anything outside the vehicle. Any creature within the vehicle may create an opening as a move action, reducing this bonus to improved cover (+8 to AC, +4 to Reflex saves), to allow him to still make attacks and interact with targets outside the vehicle. When making an attack in this fashion, targets outside the vehicle gain soft cover against attacks originating from inside the vehicle (+2 AC, +1 Reflex saves).

[Quarian Rex]

I also have some questions regarding the Technician's Independent Inventions. Do the Mechanical Arm and Siege Engine have a movement speed?

2nd to last paragraph on p.69 of the updated version of Spheres of Might...

An independent invention gains one base form outlined below, as well as an improvement at 1st level and every four levels thereafter. In addition to the qualities provided by technician level, size, and base form, each independent invention begins with a hardness of 5 and a 30 ft. land speed.

I'd like to clarify a question that "kkplx" asked, I think he meant: If I use the "Suit" improvement it says that I can't be targeted directly, and can only be affected by AoE/Saving Throw spells. If I then take the "Covered" improvement I can no longer use the Invention to attack things since I can't see them unless I take a move action to create an opening. However doing so gives me Improved Cover but now allows anything to target the pilot directly. In addition it now provides Soft Cover to anything the pilot attacks and doesn't seem to actually protect the pilot from someone climbing into the pilot seat to throw him out. All in all "Covered" seems to be a really bad choice to take on a Suit invention.

Spoiler: Relevant Text

Show

Suit (Requires Mechanical Insight)

The invention is designed to sit one creature (the pilot) who controls the invention’s movements from the inside. The pilot must be the same size or smaller than the invention.

It takes a full-round action to get into or out of the pilot’s seat. Once inside, the pilot can control the vehicle’s movements and actions as if he himself were the invention (moving the invention as a move action, attacking with a weapon it possesses as a standard action, etc.). If the invention possesses an appropriate weapon, the pilot may even make attacks of opportunity. The pilot may still perform actions not related to the invention (for example, throwing a detonator or other gadget), but doing so means the pilot cannot use that same action to control the invention.

While in the pilot seat, a character can be targeted by magic that does not require a form of attack or touch attack roll, but otherwise the pilot cannot be targeted by any form of attack until the independent invention itself is reduced to 0 hp.

A target may attempt to target the pilot or wrestle them from the pilot seat, but only by entering the independent invention’s space and spending a full-round action climbing into the pilot’s seat themselves.


Covered

The invention must have either the vehicle form or the suit improvement to gain this improvement. This invention is designed to completely protect its passengers. All creatures inside of the invention gain total cover, but cannot interact or make attacks against anything outside the vehicle. Any creature within the vehicle may create an opening as a move action, reducing this bonus to improved cover (+8 to AC, +4 to Reflex saves), to allow him to still make attacks and interact with targets outside the vehicle. When making an attack in this fashion, targets outside the vehicle gain soft cover against attacks originating from inside the vehicle (+2 AC, +1 Reflex saves).

Look at it like this, the standard Suit is something like a more armored version of the exo-suit used by Ripley in Aliens, or the "Jackets" used by Tom Cruise in Edge of Tomorrow. Armored up augmentation but the pilot can let go of an arm control, grab a pistol, and shoot someone with their own hand if they want to. Claws and bullets have to chew through the suit (because armor) but someone can still dominate you (because they can look you in the eyes), fireballs might toast you (because things are kind of open, like regular armor), and cloudkill will still do its thing (because you aren't hermetically sealed).

Covered bumps this up to full Ironman/mecha coverage. You are completely sealed so fireball/cloudkill has to get through the crunchy coating to get to the gooey center. Despite the fact that the pilot, "gain(s) total cover, but cannot interact or make attacks against anything outside the vehicle", the Suit improvement means, "the pilot can control the vehicle’s movements and actions as if he himself were the invention", so he has no problem sensing or interacting with the rest of the environment, so long as it is through the Suit. Making an opening is like Tony Stark opening a hatch on the Hulkbusters' nipple area to stick his arm/face out to take some potshots at someone with a sidearm or throw a grenade (or cast a spell at someone if he had levels as a spellcaster). The awkwardness of having to fight through a porthole provides the cover bonus on both sides.

I do think that the "climbing into the pilot’s seat" option could use some more elaboration though. Does the full-round action to climb into the seat include a grapple check or does it just get someone into position to do so the next round? It seems to imply that the ease of breaking into a Suit is based on the CMD of the pilot instead of the security if the invention. Overall it seems like a rather glaring and sometimes very counter-intuitive weakness. If I were to clarify it I would probably do something like this...

"An attacker may attempt to target the pilot or wrestle them from the pilot seat, but only by entering the independent invention’s space and spending a full-round action (provoking an attack of opportunity) climbing into the pilot’s seat themselves. This requires a Combat Maneuver check against either the pilot's CMD or that of the invention (using the Independent Invention's HD as its BAB to calculate CMD), whichever is higher, and can only be performed on a Suit that is larger than the pilot. This leaves the pilot fully exposed to the attacker (but no one else). The pilot can attack/act as if he was in melee combat using either what he has equipped or with his Suit's attacks. Should the attacker succeed in a Move-Grapple maneuver check the pilot is removed from the pilot's seat and left prone on an adjacent square, while the attacker is now considered to be the pilot. The pilot can reseal the Independent Invention's entrance with a Move action which requires a maneuver check if the attacker is still on the Suit (using the pilot's CMB as normal). This cannot be done if the pilot is grappled. Success on the maneuver check results in the attacker being moved to an adjacent square and left prone."

That seems like a bit but I think that it covers just about everything in as concise (mechanically) a way as possible. At least this allows the pilot a fighting chance instead of allowing someone to completely negate a mecha's defenses with a single full-round action. Also, with the need t have a larger sized suit for this to be an option, that is both to balance out the weaker stats of smaller suits and because I can't stand the idea of someone just walking up and wrestling Tony Stark out of his Iron Man armor. If it has an entry hatch you have an option. If you wear it like a suit of armor then it shouldn't be an option unless you can strip someone out of their full-plate as a full-round action.

I hope this helps.

[Hunter Noventa]

... it was supposed to be in Spheres of Might, which I just looked back over and somehow between the draft and the finished product, it disappeared. That's disconcerting, and I have to assume it was the result of me spacing, because the only other explanation I can think of is there was an error where it didn't save the draft properly?

The gist of it was that you could take a feat that divides your penalties when using a technician's inventions in half. Combined with a technician who's taken Aesthetic Insight, this reduces all penalties to 0, allowing the technician to hand his inventions out to party members without penalty, for those people who want to play support with their toys.

I will think on this missing content and what to do next about it and permanent inventions

I know you don't want to make it too complicated to craft inventions, but some kind of cost tradeoff for improvements that scale with level versus those that don't might be in order. Like, adding an Air Bladder to armor, an improvement with a non-scaling benefit shouldn't cost as much as Mechanized Strength, a benefit that does scale.

Maybe 500gp * number of improvements for non-scaling improvements, versus the current 500gp * number of improvements * effective technician level for the scaling improvements? This would let the party get some enhancement bonuses pretty early sure, but the magical ones will quickly get cheaper (unless you're in a low magic campaign, in which case costs should be re-adjusted on a case-by-case basis). So you could add, say, an Air Bladder and a Parachute to armor for 1500gp. You'd still have to have the high enough technician level to add multiple improvements to a single item of course. But the cost would work better if it only scales up dramatically when using the scaling improvements you're worried about.

At least, that's how I read your last couple of posts on the subject.

[Wartex1]

I finally got Champions of the Spheres, and in terms of damage output, Ki Blast seems very strong, especially combined with the Barrage Sphere. While a pure Sage will only get a maximum of 4 attacks against a single target barring some clever loopholes, with the Devastation wave ability it can get up to 4 attacks, each being touch attacks (so accuracy is essentially moot), each attack doing 10d10 damage (55 on average), which can be doubled with a single ki point (to 110 on average) for several rounds per point spent, it hits some serious reliable damage.

While not as strong as say AM Barbarian, it's quite powerful and unless I'm missing something renders Destruction sphere specialists mostly moot.

And on a similar note, the Devastation Wave ability itself is comparatively underwhelming. While it hits the largest area of any of the ki abilities, it feels really weak compared to what it's supposed to emulate (the Kamehameha), as regular ki blasts will generally get the job done better (Touch Attack vs Reflex Save).

[sunderedhero]

2nd to last paragraph on p.69 of the updated version of Spheres of Might...

>_< I've read that section a dozen times and still missed that, thanks.

Despite the fact that the pilot, "gain(s) total cover, but cannot interact or make attacks against anything outside the vehicle", the Suit improvement means, "the pilot can control the vehicle’s movements and actions as if he himself were the invention", so he has no problem sensing or interacting with the rest of the environment, so long as it is through the Suit.

Ah that makes sense.

I do think that the "climbing into the pilot’s seat" option could use some more elaboration though........If you wear it like a suit of armor then it shouldn't be an option unless you can strip someone out of their full-plate as a full-round action.

I agree, especially with the covered improvement, a strength check or something should be required to pry off a panel to get to you.

I hope this helps.

It does, very much so.

Also I just realized that you could take the Suit improvement on just a plain Mechanical Arm and wear your punch.

[Quarian Rex]

Also I just realized that you could take the Suit improvement on just a plain Mechanical Arm and wear your punch.

Yup, that seems to be the default beginning for power armor. I always pictured the base unimproved version as being a wood/leather suit of armor with a Hellboy fist, or like 40K Spacemarine armor with a single power fist.

[Quarian Rex]

I finally got Champions of the Spheres, and in terms of damage output, Ki Blast seems very strong, especially combined with the Barrage Sphere. While a pure Sage will only get a maximum of 4 attacks against a single target barring some clever loopholes, with the Devastation wave ability it can get up to 4 attacks, each being touch attacks (so accuracy is essentially moot)

I have to disagree with this. I think it is important to remember that all this is being attempted on a Wizard chassis, so at 20th level he only has +10 BAB and those 4 attacks all have -6 to hit. Trying to hit anything (even on a touch attack) with only a +4 to hit at level 20 is anything but moot. Even at 10th level he could only make 3 attacks at +1 to hit (+5 BAB and -4 to hit).

The Sage is an interesting class and I look forward to playing one. It has its advantages (as does every class) but it is most definitely not OP.

[Wartex1]

That's only from BAB. You're not considering an attack bonus from Dexterity, feats, items, etc.

Considering the average touch AC hovers around 12 all the way until CR 25, it's a lot.

Granted, ki blast isn't very good at low levels, it just happens to grow quadratically in power due to it's own dice increasing plus extra attacks from barrage.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Could someone point me to the rules on what happens when one multiclasses between different practitioner progressions? Like moving from a class with Proficient to Adept or the other way around? How does this affect the levels at which one gains talents?

[khadgar567]

Any news about trabadour getting survival patch he needs or i need to homebrew one.

[AlienFromBeyond]

I've noticed that technically getting into the SoM system through an Associated Feat swap doesn't actually let you get Martial Focus, as it is limited to "A character who has the combat training class feature, the Extra Combat Talent feat, or who has gained a combat talent progression by some other means can achieve martial focus." Getting a combat talent through a feat swap is neither the combat raining class feature, the Extra Combat Talent feat (it bypasses that entirely), nor is it a combat talent progression, it is simply a free talent in exchange for a feat you would have gotten otherwise. I'm hoping this is merely an oversight in the text for who can gain Martial Focus, and not an intended limitation.