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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by Ssalarn View Post
    Take the time, make your case on a point by point basis, and we will either acknowledge or refute those points, acting upon them as appropriate.
    ... What do you think I've been doing today? Apart from the fact that my points as never been acknowledged and always refuted despite the fact that those refutions don't make any sense at all and completely ignore what I was saying. All I've been doing is making my case on a point by point basis. Even realising when I am getting caught up in the moment and taking the time to catch my breath and write out a proper, calm response.

    The fact I have nothing to speak of this effort but refusal to consider anything I say might have any grain of truth to it has what lead me to my current state of frustration.

    I mean really. How hard is it to see the differences between Psionic Focus and Martial Focus? Psionic Focus works because the Psionic Power Point system has no direct relation to it, and instead function directly as an addition that you can utilizie via feats. Martial Focus doesn't work because the Talent system is directly intwined with it, and the attempt to make it a feature that you can opt into or opt out of has completely and utterly failed to the point where the choice is entirely decided by your Spheres.

    And don't even think about spouting 'But Talents ARE Feats!' because no. No they are not. They are Talents. Not feats. Feats don't come in Spheres.
    Last edited by The Blade Wolf; 2017-06-11 at 04:46 PM.

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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by Ualaa View Post
    Thanks for the insight.

    I guess I'll wait for a peak at the GM's Toolbox, to see what the options are for natural attacks.
    No need to wait!

    GM Toolbox Playtest Preview

    We're adding new monsters pretty regularly at this point.

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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by The Blade Wolf View Post
    ... What do you think I've been doing today? Apart from the fact that my points as never been acknowledged and always refuted despite the fact that those refutions don't make any sense at all and completely ignore what I was saying. All I've been doing is making my case on a point by point basis. Even realising when I am getting caught up in the moment and taking the time to catch my breath and write out a proper, calm response.

    The fact I have nothing to speak of this effort but refusal to consider anything I say might have any grain of truth to it has what lead me to my current state of frustration.
    I'm sorry you're frustrated. We believe you to be objectively wrong on many points. You think you're right and can't be convinced otherwise, and are compounding this with a bad attitude.

    I mean really. How hard is it to see the differences between Psionic Focus and Martial Focus? Psionic Focus works because the Psionic Power Point system has no direct relation to it, and instead function directly as an addition that you can utilizie via feats. Martial Focus doesn't work because the Talent system is directly intwined with it, and the attempt to make it a feature that you can opt into or opt out of has completely and utterly failed to the point where the choice is entirely decided by your Spheres.
    This is a big block of opinion. No facts here, nothing actionable, just you loudly stating opinions as facts.

    And don't even think about spouting 'But Talents ARE Feats!' because no. No they are not. They are Talents. Not feats. Feats don't come in Spheres.
    Uhm, not to sink to the same level of childishness, but don't tell me what to do. Talents are modeled off of feats. They acknowledge that not all feats are equal and restructure many of the weaker ones into a more affordable and flexible system. You can buy them all at a rate of 1 talent per feat. A Fighter can take them in place of his bonus feats. Just like feats, they build off the basic capabilities created by your skills, proficiencies, and class chassis. They are, in fact, rebuilt and restructured feats. I know, because I helped write them.

    Now, you can calmly and politely provide feedback and we will give it fair consideration. But you need to understand that you are presenting opinions, opinions which are just one amongst hundreds, and we will treat them as such. We are not obligated to make changes based on what you find acceptable, but instead we will make changes on what our combined experience as designers who've been working on successful books for years leads us to believe is right, informed and influenced by the design goals we laid out for the project and the cumulative data of dozens of spreadsheets, hundreds of playtesters, and hours and hours of playtest game logs. If you continue to claim that you are being ignored, despite multiple members of the design team responding to you and even making same day updates based on your legitimate feedback, then we will take that as the disrespect it is and we really will ignore you, because we have a lot of feedback to go through and this book is scheduled to be finished this month so we can move on to other projects like the Champions of the Spheres book that was funded as part of this Kickstarter.

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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by Ssalarn View Post
    Uhm, not to sink to the same level of childishness, but don't tell me what to do. Talents are modeled off of feats. They acknowledge that not all feats are equal and restructure many of the weaker ones into a more affordable and flexible system. You can buy them all at a rate of 1 talent per feat. A Fighter can take them in place of his bonus feats. Just like feats, they build off the basic capabilities created by your skills, proficiencies, and class chassis. They are, in fact, rebuilt and restructured feats. I know, because I helped write them.
    You do realize that just because a ability X or Y can be purchased with feats doesn't mean that they are by their nature the same as feats right? Case-in-point Expanded Arcana, which by your logic appears to mean that every spell is equivalently a feat.

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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by Mehangel View Post
    You do realize that just because a ability X or Y can be purchased with feats doesn't mean that they are by their nature the same as feats right? Case-in-point Expanded Arcana, which by your logic appears to mean that every spell is equivalently a feat.
    That is a false equivalency. Combat Talents are structured to build off the base system, just like feats, and include "Associated Feats" specifically to clarify that many of those talents are, in fact, full replacements for those feats.
    Another poster decided to try and preempt a response because they already knew what the answer was. While talents are talents, and not called feats, the way that they work is modeled after feats. Their structure and basic implementation, as well as the purpose they serve, is the same. They're not magic. They're not spells. They're abilities that interact with your core functions as a character and build off them, permanent parts of what your character is and what they can do, presented with better equity and flexibility than exists in core feats. By intention, many of them have much more in common with feats than any system of magic, and are heavily influenced by psionic feats, which share the same structure of either giving you a powerful ability to expend focus on, or a static benefit that requires that focus.
    The poster I was responding to wanted to deny that equivalency, but that equivalency exists, is easily comparable, and shows clearly in the design. The very fact that they attempted to preemptively cut off the conversation shows that.
    Last edited by Ssalarn; 2017-06-11 at 09:31 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #126

    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by Ssalarn View Post
    That is a false equivalency. Combat Talents are structured to build off the base system, just like feats, and include "Associated Feats" specifically to clarify that many of those talents are, in fact, full replacements for those feats.
    Except, here's the thing. They aren't feats. They are Talents

    Feats, you get one at every odd level, and that never changes. Sure, some classes give you bonus feats, but that's a class feature specific to the class, and not part of the system as a whole. Talents on the other hand, are not given to us at the same rate of feats. In fact, there is three different rates you can pick up talents. That alone is a significant enough distinction which shows that no. Talents and feats are not the same thing. But guess what? It goes even further than that! Because the Talents are split into groups known as Sphere's, and if you have a Sphere, you can grab basically any single talent that's available to you there. Feats don't function like that. Feats have prerequisites that stop you from taking some of the stronger feats right away or are locked to a specific level, which the Sphere's don't have - Legendary Talents notwithstanding. Plus there is not one single feat which functions as a prerequisite for 20+ feats like the base sphere's does. Not even Point Blank Shot has that many feats linked to it!

    So in summary: It does not matter how much you might declare that Combat Talents are built off the base system and function just like feats. The way you have implemented Combat Talents means that They. Are. Not. Feats. So the entire 'Talents are just feats' bull**** you use in order to dismiss my arguments as to why Psionic Focus functions where Martial Focus fails, falls flat on its face. That's on top of how you completely and utterly ignore how I point out that the Psionic's Power Point system is completely separate from the Psionic Focus and that the Martial Focus is completely entwined with the Talent system, yet is so half-heartedly implemented that it falls flat on its face.

    Edit: I can't believe that I can go to sleep, wake up and get instantly frustrated again. Good god its like banging your head against a brick wall, trying to get people to understand clear and 100% fact. The Talents might be based on feats, they might be an attempt to balance several feats, their might even be an option to repalce feats with talents. But the simple matter of fact is that they are not feats
    Last edited by The Blade Wolf; 2017-06-12 at 04:41 AM.

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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by The Blade Wolf View Post
    Except, here's the thing. They aren't feats. They are Talents

    Feats, you get one at every odd level, and that never changes. Sure, some classes give you bonus feats, but that's a class feature specific to the class, and not part of the system as a whole. Talents on the other hand, are not given to us at the same rate of feats. In fact, there is three different rates you can pick up talents. That alone is a significant enough distinction which shows that no. Talents and feats are not the same thing. But guess what? It goes even further than that! Because the Talents are split into groups known as Sphere's, and if you have a Sphere, you can grab basically any single talent that's available to you there. Feats don't function like that. Feats have prerequisites that stop you from taking some of the stronger feats right away or are locked to a specific level, which the Sphere's don't have - Legendary Talents notwithstanding. Plus there is not one single feat which functions as a prerequisite for 20+ feats like the base sphere's does. Not even Point Blank Shot has that many feats linked to it!

    So in summary: It does not matter how much you might declare that Combat Talents are built off the base system and function just like feats. The way you have implemented Combat Talents means that They. Are. Not. Feats. So the entire 'Talents are just feats' bull**** you use in order to dismiss my arguments as to why Psionic Focus functions where Martial Focus fails, falls flat on its face. That's on top of how you completely and utterly ignore how I point out that the Psionic's Power Point system is completely separate from the Psionic Focus and that the Martial Focus is completely entwined with the Talent system, yet is so half-heartedly implemented that it falls flat on its face.

    Edit: I can't believe that I can go to sleep, wake up and get instantly frustrated again. Good god its like banging your head against a brick wall, trying to get people to understand clear and 100% fact.
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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by The Blade Wolf View Post
    Except, here's the thing. They aren't feats. They are Talents

    Feats, you get one at every odd level, and that never changes. Sure, some classes give you bonus feats, but that's a class feature specific to the class, and not part of the system as a whole. Talents on the other hand, are not given to us at the same rate of feats. In fact, there is three different rates you can pick up talents. That alone is a significant enough distinction which shows that no. Talents and feats are not the same thing. But guess what? It goes even further than that! Because the Talents are split into groups known as Sphere's, and if you have a Sphere, you can grab basically any single talent that's available to you there. Feats don't function like that. Feats have prerequisites that stop you from taking some of the stronger feats right away or are locked to a specific level, which the Sphere's don't have - Legendary Talents notwithstanding. Plus there is not one single feat which functions as a prerequisite for 20+ feats like the base sphere's does. Not even Point Blank Shot has that many feats linked to it!

    So in summary: It does not matter how much you might declare that Combat Talents are built off the base system and function just like feats. The way you have implemented Combat Talents means that They. Are. Not. Feats. So the entire 'Talents are just feats' bull**** you use in order to dismiss my arguments as to why Psionic Focus functions where Martial Focus fails, falls flat on its face. That's on top of how you completely and utterly ignore how I point out that the Psionic's Power Point system is completely separate from the Psionic Focus and that the Martial Focus is completely entwined with the Talent system, yet is so half-heartedly implemented that it falls flat on its face.

    Edit: I can't believe that I can go to sleep, wake up and get instantly frustrated again. Good god its like banging your head against a brick wall, trying to get people to understand clear and 100% fact.
    Let me give my 2c here:

    The way that they're similar to feats (to us) is in how their power level is structured, that's around the level of power we're shooting for with them. I agree with you that there are mechanical differences, such as how they're obtained. Their implementation is different, yes. The way we internally see them is as feat-equivalents though. That's all that can be said from our end on how we view these abilities.

    I agree with you that we've used focus in a different way than psionic focus, because while that might have been a basis for martial focus, we didn't want to retread the same water completely. We thought that including them for talents would be a nice way of limiting some things, and it seems you disagree. You have given us reasons for why you believe this, and as stated, we're listening to you as much as we're listening to everyone else. All we can do is take the opinions of everyone into consideration along with the experience we have as a team for things like this. There's quite a few things on which I've given feedback where I was certain I was right (and honestly still think I am) where I wasn't listened to, and that's how things go. We can only try to make a product based on what we feel works while listening to feedback, so while I do appreciate your passion in demonstrating your point, recognize that we will make decisions based on what we believe is best for the product.

    I think we all need to step back and try to realize that no one here is attempting to be malicious, there is no agenda here, and that we all wish this product to turn out the best it can be. You have stated what you believe would help, and we honestly do appreciate that, as like was said earlier, Boxer has undergone some changes to make it less immediate action dependant. Focus is however an area in which we are rather invested, and any changes to it would ripple system wide and would cause far more changes than we can reasonably deal with involving the production schedule we have set. At this point, we're happy with focus despite recognizing it does have issues (everything has issues, nothing's perfect), so any changes we would make would have to be minimal. Please recognize the situation in which we're in at the moment when making commentary, as while we could continue to change things, we do eventually have to release and drawing things out hurts we as writers as well as others involved in this process. I do hope that you continue to give feedback where you can, I will do my best to take it into account, and I hope that you have a nice day.

  9. - Top - End - #129

    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Thank you N.Jolly for your reply, and I do apologise for allowing myself to get frustrated during this conversation. I should have tried to keep a level head about it. And thank you for explaining why you are so cautious about touching the Martial Focus at the moment, and I understand that it would cause significant delays reviewing it again (as you already went through a significant change by dropping the way you used to dedicate it to a Sphere), and that such a delay could significantly hurt the subject.

    If I have time, I will review the other Spheres, as well as re-review the Boxing Sphere.

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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by The Blade Wolf View Post
    Thank you N.Jolly for your reply, and I do apologise for allowing myself to get frustrated during this conversation. I should have tried to keep a level head about it. And thank you for explaining why you are so cautious about touching the Martial Focus at the moment, and I understand that it would cause significant delays reviewing it again (as you already went through a significant change by dropping the way you used to dedicate it to a Sphere), and that such a delay could significantly hurt the subject.

    If I have time, I will review the other Spheres, as well as re-review the Boxing Sphere.
    No problem, I appreciate you listening to me on this. I think it's very easy to dehumanize others here, and to forget that there's another person on the other side of the screen. At the moment the boxing changes are internal, but I should probably switch them over to the draft, as we're doing a decent amount of internal changes at the moment. This project has already gone on longer than we had hoped (once I dreamed of a Gencon release...oh those happy spring days...), and we still have a lot to include in this project.

    I can promise that on our end we will do our best to listen to and respond to as much feedback as possible, but realize that we're only a small group of people, and that for some of us, this isn't a full time job so even being able to do that much as well as design is difficult. I'm aware that your emotions are just showing the passion you have for this project, the same passion we all have to make something that's really amazing and cool. I personally think we've done just that, as this project has gone beyond what I thought was possible for it, and I'm very proud to have been allowed to work on it. The SoM team will always do our best to make sure that we listen to the voices of those out there who have something to say, positive or negative, and do our best to respond to it, as people like you are why we make products; the passionate gamers who enjoy this hobby just as much as we do.

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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    EDIT: This has given me an idea to assist on this issue, since the idea of switching some things to full round actions is rather interesting.[/QUOTE]

    I like that. Another suggestion might be to give some classes, that do not have them yet, their own ressource pool. Right now some classes are VERY focus hungry, which gets the to the wierd situation of having multiple abilities fighting for the same (very limited) ressource. Some other classes do not have to worry nearly as much. Those seem more satisfying to everyone. For them focus as is works by far better. So depending on the class and sphere choices the problem might be unnoticeable, while given a different party composition it becomes a truly massive issue. The problem is once you notice the problem it gets annoying quickly. And it causes players to dislike the whole (focus-)system a lot.

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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracul3S View Post
    I like that. Another suggestion might be to give some classes, that do not have them yet, their own ressource pool. Right now some classes are VERY focus hungry, which gets the to the wierd situation of having multiple abilities fighting for the same (very limited) ressource. Some other classes do not have to worry nearly as much. Those seem more satisfying to everyone. For them focus as is works by far better. So depending on the class and sphere choices the problem might be unnoticeable, while given a different party composition it becomes a truly massive issue. The problem is once you notice the problem it gets annoying quickly. And it causes players to dislike the whole (focus-)system a lot.
    explain pls
    Last edited by khadgar567; 2017-06-12 at 12:32 PM.
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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Yeah, are you suggesting specific classes need a class feature to handle focus? Or is it a matter of action economy? Either way, specific examples would be nice.

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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    No. I want focus to be ONLY used for talents and never for class features. But only as a quick fix. Classes should use their own ressources to fuel their class abilities. Not the same used for talents.

    The best would be if focus would completly be removed.

    Why? You can use and regain focus every turn. So it's entirely pointless as a resource. Focus-cycling is the by far most efficient way to play SoM right now. Problem is: This is not great. Once you DO note it, you quickly understand you are doing standard + move actions instead of fullround actions wich is literally the same for all purpose and intent. And that is bad. As one the big things of SoM was to move away from this.
    I personally think it should be done like this: Make focus expanding abilities fullround actions and forget about a resource no one cares for.

    Better yet keep focus expending abilities as they are and remove focus (and the need to regain it) anyway. It was tested in my group that way and you know what? It works perfectly fine.

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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracul3S View Post
    No. I want focus to be ONLY used for talents and never for class features. But only as a quick fix. Classes should use their own ressources to fuel their class abilities. Not the same used for talents.

    The best would be if focus would completly be removed.

    Why? You can use and regain focus every turn. So it's entirely pointless as a resource. Focus-cycling is the by far most efficient way to play SoM right now. Problem is: This is not great. Once you DO note it, you quickly understand you are doing standard + move actions instead of fullround actions wich is literally the same for all purpose and intent. And that is bad. As one the big things of SoM was to move away from this.
    I personally think it should be done like this: Make focus expanding abilities fullround actions and forget about a resource no one cares for.

    Better yet keep focus expending abilities as they are and remove focus (and the need to regain it) anyway. It was tested in my group that way and you know what? It works perfectly fine.
    I dont about you dracul but focus is good as it is both as gate to powerful stuff and nice way to give passive befits to player as full round action vs standart and move action. standart and move wins with good margin. okay damage maybe tad low for SOM but you have bunch more tools to pull stunts to effective combat armigger can be build to use diffrent damage type from literaly 1st level, sage can basicly pull son goku all day with no trouble.

    so please offer opinons instead of criticize every one with out listening
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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Well, the first part of your request is already the case, as I can't find any class features of any of the classes that use focus, outside of those which are simply granting or modifying spheres and talents.

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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by NomGarret View Post
    Well, the first part of your request is already the case, as I can't find any class features of any of the classes that use focus, outside of those which are simply granting or modifying spheres and talents.
    Scholar uses focus to trigger their Material Impositions on flashbangs I believe.
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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    I have a quick observation that bothers me a bit. Hoping someone can explain for me.

    I have heard that when you guys made Spheres of power, you were very specific in not allowing Full attack action with destructive blasts as a balance points and specifically not allowing them to count as weapons as this allows some very powerful combinations.

    So I would like to know the thought process behind the Sage? Free melee touch attacks that you can full attack with and count as weapons. Damage increase as per Destructive blast and for 1 talent at lvl 1 you now turn them into rays with the same chassis.

    I am very curious about this as it kinda makes a better Blaster than an SoP Blaster, expecially if you combine with Barrage and or Sniping.

    Just kinda curious, thanks in advance for any info.

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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathias1313 View Post
    I have a quick observation that bothers me a bit. Hoping someone can explain for me.

    I have heard that when you guys made Spheres of power, you were very specific in not allowing Full attack action with destructive blasts as a balance points and specifically not allowing them to count as weapons as this allows some very powerful combinations.

    So I would like to know the thought process behind the Sage? Free melee touch attacks that you can full attack with and count as weapons. Damage increase as per Destructive blast and for 1 talent at lvl 1 you now turn them into rays with the same chassis.

    I am very curious about this as it kinda makes a better Blaster than an SoP Blaster, expecially if you combine with Barrage and or Sniping.

    Just kinda curious, thanks in advance for any info.
    Because the Sage is a 6HD, low BAB class and chi gong deals physical damage without bonus damage? It's kind of terrible for dealing damage.

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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathias1313 View Post
    I have a quick observation that bothers me a bit. Hoping someone can explain for me.

    I have heard that when you guys made Spheres of power, you were very specific in not allowing Full attack action with destructive blasts as a balance points and specifically not allowing them to count as weapons as this allows some very powerful combinations.

    So I would like to know the thought process behind the Sage? Free melee touch attacks that you can full attack with and count as weapons. Damage increase as per Destructive blast and for 1 talent at lvl 1 you now turn them into rays with the same chassis.

    I am very curious about this as it kinda makes a better Blaster than an SoP Blaster, expecially if you combine with Barrage and or Sniping.

    Just kinda curious, thanks in advance for any info.
    Because the Sage's damage scales with sage class level, not caster level, so that means that we wont have people who optimize their CL to 50+ dealing 50d6 maximized empowered quickened destructive blasts.
    Last edited by Mehangel; 2017-06-14 at 09:26 AM.

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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by khadgar567 View Post
    I dont about you dracul but focus is good as it is both as gate to powerful stuff and nice way to give passive befits to player as full round action vs standart and move action. standart and move wins with good margin. okay damage maybe tad low for SOM but you have bunch more tools to pull stunts to effective combat armigger can be build to use diffrent damage type from literaly 1st level, sage can basicly pull son goku all day with no trouble.

    so please offer opinons instead of criticize every one with out listening
    Dracul was complaining that Standard+Move has the same "stand in one place the whole turn or be bad" problem as Full-Attacking does, not that Full-Attacks do more damage. And he's right. Martials already have options in combat, but they don't get used because the most efficient thing is to stand still and swing a sword, which Martial Focus doesn't fix currently.

    Honestly, I like the idea of it giving passive bonuses and being expendable for the saving throw bonus, and only having to expend it for very powerful (like 1/encounter at least) tricks

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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Dinosaur View Post
    Dracul was complaining that Standard+Move has the same "stand in one place the whole turn or be bad" problem as Full-Attacking does, not that Full-Attacks do more damage. And he's right. Martials already have options in combat, but they don't get used because the most efficient thing is to stand still and swing a sword, which Martial Focus doesn't fix currently.

    Honestly, I like the idea of it giving passive bonuses and being expendable for the saving throw bonus, and only having to expend it for very powerful (like 1/encounter at least) tricks
    So let me ask, are you against the idea of focus being able to be regained in combat at all, along with an assumed increase in power for talents which require focus? I do feel like martial focus does help with things like this, as it allows others to play in a different fashion.

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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Either make it easier or harder to regain, because right now it seems like standing still, expending focus, then using your Move to regain focus is the optimal move for martials

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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by N. Jolly View Post
    So let me ask, are you against the idea of focus being able to be regained in combat at all, along with an assumed increase in power for talents which require focus? I do feel like martial focus does help with things like this, as it allows others to play in a different fashion.
    Not my personal horse I'm betting on here, but maybe let you move at half speed when regaining Martial Focus?
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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Dinosaur View Post
    Either make it easier or harder to regain, because right now it seems like standing still, expending focus, then using your Move to regain focus is the optimal move for martials
    Might I ask if you've played with these mechanics? I ask because in all of the playtest games of which we've played and ran, this has never once been an issue, we've never had someone deciding to stand around and trade blows, and I'm curious if it has been an issue in other games.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    Not my personal horse I'm betting on here, but maybe let you move at half speed when regaining Martial Focus?
    Right now I'm trying to think of ways to increase mobility, there's a few ideas I have, but at this late stage in the game, I have to get everyone else to agree before we even begin serious talks due to how close we are to finishing.

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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    What is the exact mechanical reason, why choosing a martial tradition may only happen at 1st level? What is the exact problem that a fighter 1/armiger 1 can't be made a duplicate of an armiger 1/fighter 1?
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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by EldritchWeaver View Post
    What is the exact mechanical reason, why choosing a martial tradition may only happen at 1st level? What is the exact problem that a fighter 1/armiger 1 can't be made a duplicate of an armiger 1/fighter 1?
    The main reason is for proficiency juggling; having to readjust proficiencies in this fashion feels pretty clunky, although since you can take a martial tradition with a lot of different core classes, it shouldn't be a large issue unless you're starting with a class that doesn't have martial profs or such.

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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by N. Jolly View Post
    The main reason is for proficiency juggling; having to readjust proficiencies in this fashion feels pretty clunky, although since you can take a martial tradition with a lot of different core classes, it shouldn't be a large issue unless you're starting with a class that doesn't have martial profs or such.
    We have already retraining in the rules, so I don't see a problem with allowing it.
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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    The key reason it works is that when you take a martial tradition you no longer gain proficiencies from multiclassing. So Armiger 1/Fighter 1 gets the martial tradition but not the additional proficiencies from fighter. Fighter 1/Armiger 1 can either keep the fighter proficiencies or take a tradition as normal for fighter. In this case you either want to plan ahead or have a DM amenable to retraining. Where it gets trickier is coming from, say, wizard where you can't start with a martial tradition. Maybe it should be changed to "1st eligible level?"

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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by NomGarret View Post
    The key reason it works is that when you take a martial tradition you no longer gain proficiencies from multiclassing.
    That's... an incredibly serve chance to character creation which I don't think I quite enjoy the sound off.

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