Babylon 5 streaming free

[BannedInSchool]

Huh, so Babylon 5 is available for streaming on Go90, and free even. For anyone who might check it out for the first time, do be aware it's a 20 year-old syndicated TV show made with a pretty low budget. The first season is rough with a mix of both finding itself and setting up the chessboard for the five-year story. I can't recommend skipping to the Hugo-winning episodes/seasons because they won't mean as much without the setup. Even one of the worst episodes of season one, "Infection", is setting up elements for later so they don't come out of the blue, and B plots can be important character pieces. So just suffer through season one's rough bits to get to the award-winning stuff later.

[tantric]

i loved the show back in the day, but it was weird to realize that i'd side with the shadows.

[BannedInSchool]

i loved the show back in the day, but it was weird to realize that i'd side with the shadows.

Well, the Vorlons were set up as the "Good Guys" mostly through Kosh. The whole

Spoiler: Vorlon Spoilers

Show

genetically modifying others to see them as angels in their respective religions to manipulate them as needed and introducing telepathy to screw with the Shadows

was pretty dickish of them. (And Into the Fire really needed to be a two-parter. Stupid PTEN folding. )

[Olinser]

Huh, so Babylon 5 is available for streaming on Go90, and free even. For anyone who might check it out for the first time, do be aware it's a 20 year-old syndicated TV show made with a pretty low budget. The first season is rough with a mix of both finding itself and setting up the chessboard for the five-year story. I can't recommend skipping to the Hugo-winning episodes/seasons because they won't mean as much without the setup. Even one of the worst episodes of season one, "Infection", is setting up elements for later so they don't come out of the blue, and B plots can be important character pieces. So just suffer through season one's rough bits to get to the award-winning stuff later.

I'm still not sure why its not on Netflix streaming or Hulu (for some odd reason you can only get it in disc form from Netflix).

Fun fact - the Babylon 5 creator was actually going to sue Paramount over Deep Space 9 but Warner Brothers allegedly told him that if he went through with the lawsuit they were going to yank Babylon 5. He chose to continue with the show.

[BannedInSchool]

I'm still not sure why its not on Netflix streaming or Hulu (for some odd reason you can only get it in disc form from Netflix).

Because Warner Brothers are a bunch of doodie heads. You can be sure there'll never be BluRays of the series, and it was a fight for them to be on DVD, sheesh. But a bunch of other WB shows are also showing up on Go90, so they must have struck a larger deal. Oh, link: https://www.go90.com/shows/babylon5 I always feel spam-botty pasting links.

Fun fact - the Babylon 5 creator was actually going to sue Paramount over Deep Space 9 but Warner Brothers allegedly told him that if he went through with the lawsuit they were going to yank Babylon 5. He chose to continue with the show.

In the last few years someone did claim, with supposed inside knowledge, that Paramount did take what they liked from the B5 pitch materials to start-up DS9. But then B5 doesn't exactly have the copyright on officers traumatized by the near extinction of humanity (which TNG did actually have first), wormholes, aliens assigning religious significance to aforementioned officer, mixed military/civilian space stations with a central marketplace, and some other things escaping me at the moment.

Huh, speaking of origins, Go90 doesn't appear to include the pilot movie, or the other movies, for that matter. I guess there could be a Let's Watch of the Gathering if we do have any newbies who are going to watch the show now that it's freely available. So much changed between the pilot and the series I'm not sure how necessary it is, though.

[Rakaydos]

Huh, speaking of origins, Go90 doesn't appear to include the pilot movie, or the other movies, for that matter. I guess there could be a Let's Watch of the Gathering if we do have any newbies who are going to watch the show now that it's freely available. So much changed between the pilot and the series I'm not sure how necessary it is, though.

Leeta Alexander. (I hope I remembered the name right)

[Algeh]

If people want to do a re-watch/commentary thread, I'd be up for watching B5 again and discussing it with folks. (I have the DVDs, including the really terrible direct-to-video one they did once, because I was deeply into this show for a really long time. I even bought all of the script books! It's probably the single fandom I've spent the most money on over the decades, now that I think about it.)

[BannedInSchool]

Leeta Alexander. (I hope I remembered the name right)

Lyta was the teep on B5. Leeta was the dabo girl on DS9. But you mean that JMS worked her leaving after the pilot into a plot point? Yeah, that's a point for recapping the pilot.

If people want to do a re-watch/commentary thread, I'd be up for watching B5 again and discussing it with folks.

Should be obvious I'd participate, ha. With it streaming maybe more than a few diehards would be interested. With 88 to 110 episodes to get through it could take a while leaving any time for discussion. Plow rapidly through them or just accept it'd be most of a year?

[factotum]

Lyta was the teep on B5. Leeta was the dabo girl on DS9. But you mean that JMS worked her leaving after the pilot into a plot point? Yeah, that's a point for recapping the pilot.

He supposedly had "trapdoors" so that characters could be replaced in the event the actor wasn't able to continue the show for any reason--he had a five year story to tell, after all, and not all actors would hang around for so long. You can see this in Talia Winters (Lyta's replacement)--after some pretty hefty setup turning her into one of the most powerful telepaths in the universe, the actress didn't want to continue and so Lyta had to come back with scary Vorlon adaptations so she'd fit the role Talia was intended for. Some of the stuff with Jeffrey Sinclair in season 1 was pretty obviously retconned later on after he was replaced by Sheridan, too.

[Algeh]

Should be obvious I'd participate, ha. With it streaming maybe more than a few diehards would be interested. With 88 to 110 episodes to get through it could take a while leaving any time for discussion. Plow rapidly through them or just accept it'd be most of a year?

I suppose the first thing to research would be if we know how long they'll be available on the streaming service.

Overall, I think discussions would be better if we only did one or two episodes a week, maybe 3 or 4 max. Two-ish a week would be a year, ignoring the movies, spin-offs, and other such things. Obviously, some people would marathon it faster, but they could still loop back and discuss it when those episodes come up. Many years ago, I was in a LiveJournal group that did one Babylon 5 episode a week and took several years to get through everything (we even went on to read all of the novels and such), but I'm not sure if that pace would be too slow for this board and the likely amount of time any one show stays on a streaming service.

Anyone else have opinions?

[BannedInSchool]

He supposedly had "trapdoors" so that characters could be replaced [...]

Yeah, but obviously events in the Pilot weren't put there to immediately take characters off the stage, so seems there's some retconning there. Or maybe that was a trapdoor placed by the Pilot that really could be pulled at any time and it happened to be the time between the Pilot and S1E01, heh. I think the manner in which Talia left was also intended to go to someone else, Takashima originally and then Ivanova, as part of the whole plot, but was used for Talia when Thompson wanted to leave.

Oh, and speaking of the pilot again, I guess Londo's "we've become a tourist attraction" speech is in there, so that's important for the whole series. For the glory of the Republic!

Heh, JMS quote on writing characters out:

Boromir in LoTR was a capable, skilled fighter, deemed absolutely essential to the Company of the Ring...oops, there he is by the tree, full of Orc arrows.

Stuff happens.

Ah, he does also say Takashima would have *spoiler*mumble*spoiler*. So I'm not entirely imagining things.

[BannedInSchool]

I suppose the first thing to research would be if we know how long they'll be available on the streaming service.

Found this I did: "A source familiar with the pact indicated that it runs for one year or less."

So that'll be at least 2.1 episodes per week for all five seasons. Days of the month that are multiples of three? Monday/Thursday seems to leave too much time between them. I dunno, two full days of discussion running episodes MWF isn't bad, but one might have to SPOILER the next episode if any newbie's are still discussing the previous one (Hey look, it's a real reason for using the tag!).

[Legato Endless]

I'd be up for it. I've never finished the last season as I lacked access to cable when it came out.

[factotum]

I'd be up for it. I've never finished the last season as I lacked access to cable when it came out.

Honestly? You didn't miss much. Because the original network were planning to drop the show after the fourth season, JMS had to cram all the important stuff that would have happened in seasons 4 and 5 into the fourth season--so, when another network picked up the show for a fifth season at the last minute, all that was left was the unimportant stuff. That's not to say the fifth season was terrible, because it wasn't--it was just a massive let-down after the frenetic action of the fourth.

Of course, the very last episode of all (Sleeping in Light) is worth watching, because it was originally intended to go at the end of the fourth season and got moved back once the fifth was confirmed, being replaced there by The Deconstruction of Falling Stars.

[Olinser]

Honestly? You didn't miss much. Because the original network were planning to drop the show after the fourth season, JMS had to cram all the important stuff that would have happened in seasons 4 and 5 into the fourth season--so, when another network picked up the show for a fifth season at the last minute, all that was left was the unimportant stuff. That's not to say the fifth season was terrible, because it wasn't--it was just a massive let-down after the frenetic action of the fourth.

Of course, the very last episode of all (Sleeping in Light) is worth watching, because it was originally intended to go at the end of the fourth season and got moved back once the fifth was confirmed, being replaced there by The Deconstruction of Falling Stars.

I've found if you treat seasons 1-4 as the 'real' show, and season 5 as essentially a fanfic epilogue it makes the series work much better.

[J-H]

I got seasons 1-4 on DVD. I didn't bother getting Season 5. I also have the movies (same set?). We've watched through them twice in about 9 years of marriage.

The special effects didn't age well, but they were decent for what they were. Better than Trek, usually. Great show overall once you make it through Season 1.

My wife's comment about Jeffrey Sinclair early on (in S1) was "he seems more like a pastor than a commander." Little did she know that he was going to turn into the Minbari Pope/Buddha/whatever....

For a while, it was streaming online on WB, one season per month in a rotation.

[Olinser]

I got seasons 1-4 on DVD. I didn't bother getting Season 5. I also have the movies (same set?). We've watched through them twice in about 9 years of marriage.

The special effects didn't age well, but they were decent for what they were. Better than Trek, usually. Great show overall once you make it through Season 1.

My wife's comment about Jeffrey Sinclair early on (in S1) was "he seems more like a pastor than a commander." Little did she know that he was going to turn into the Minbari Pope/Buddha/whatever....

For a while, it was streaming online on WB, one season per month in a rotation.

Really? I think that most of the Star Trek effects (with the exception of Odo's shapeshifting - that just looks ridiculously fake these days) actually age much better than Babylon 5 - mainly because ST relied mostly upon models while Babylon 5 relied upon now very dated CGI.

[Darth Ultron]

That's not to say the fifth season was terrible, because it wasn't--it was just a massive let-down after the frenetic action of the fourth.

It might have been better to have the shadow war in the 4th season and the civil war in the 5th, but I think it worked out good. Both wars were connected, after all. Seasons 2-4 are the big war arc, but 1 is the set up and 5 is the aftermath.

I'm glad they did not have to do the more modern ''semi-arc'' where it is all in the first three episodes...then they do like 15 normal ''random'' shows, and then ''suddenly'' get back to the arc for the last couple shows of the season and end with the ''boom! everyone dies....or do they? tune in next year!''

The telepath war could have been a lot more....think like Byron discovers the Vorlon telepath creator space station, maybe with the help of a Drac buddy. And wants to turn everyone into Teeps....but the process kills 50% of the folks. Telepaths of all races join up....especially all the ones that were ''weaponized'' by Sheridan. So this makes a nice ''mistake'' that poor John has to wrap up as he created the telepath army to fight the shadows. And for even more of a twist, some races like the Narn are all like ''please zap our planet'' and side with the telepaths. And even more so as a Drac plot to use the ''Tele-Star'' to zap the Centuri home world...twice. Nice plots within plots.

[Douglas]

I'm glad they did not have to do the more modern ''semi-arc'' where it is all in the first three episodes...then they do like 15 normal ''random'' shows, and then ''suddenly'' get back to the arc for the last couple shows of the season and end with the ''boom! everyone dies....or do they? tune in next year!''

To me, this is the primary thing that makes Babylon 5 truly great. Every episode, or close to it, is part of the overall plot arc rather than a "problem of the week" that you can forget about or never watch in the first place and still see everything in the main plot. Sure, this means you "have to" watch every episode to make sense of the show, but I'd want to do that anyway with a really good show, and it meant that every single time I sat down to watch an episode I could reasonably expect that I would soon see some part of the main plot in action.

That, and said main plot being planned far enough in advance for things to be properly foreshadowed and introduced.

[BannedInSchool]

Season 5 still has the end of the whole Londo/G'Kar and Centauri arc, which is essential. It's wrapping it up in a bow more than an exciting conclusion, but it's more than an appendix. IIRC, Intersections in Real Time would originally have been the S4 finale. Taking three episodes worth out of the start of S5 and putting it into the second half of S4 as B-plots and having the Earth war ending a few episodes into S5 would have helped the flow, but the story elements are still the same. There'd also be a more obvious contrast between Sheridan's and Byron's rebellions, which I think was some of the point of Byron's character: how to @#$% it up.

[Algeh]

So, I made a separate re-watch thread to discuss episodes on a schedule: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...Group-Re-Watch! It seems like it would be confusing to try to manage that in this thread along with the general discussion.

[Legato Endless]

To me, this is the primary thing that makes Babylon 5 truly great. Every episode, or close to it, is part of the overall plot arc rather than a "problem of the week" that you can forget about or never watch in the first place and still see everything in the main plot. Sure, this means you "have to" watch every episode to make sense of the show, but I'd want to do that anyway with a really good show, and it meant that every single time I sat down to watch an episode I could reasonably expect that I would soon see some part of the main plot in action.

That, and said main plot being planned far enough in advance for things to be properly foreshadowed and introduced.

It's also pretty remarkable how this allowed them to cope with all the chaos imposed by external events. While there's maybe a handful of plot holes, they're quite minor and arguable. Especially compared to a lot of other series. Even today in an era of high serialization, I wish more shows planned out their general ideas beforehand like this did, and thus avoiding turning into nonsense with each plot twist later on. There's no false payoff here, unlike say, Lost or BSG.

[J-H]

Yep!

Korean dramas are pretty good about this, although they are usually shorter (20 or so 1 hour episodes).

Great Queen Seon-Deok was 60-62 1-hour episodes, and thus equivalent to about 3 American TV seasons. There was one character introduced partway through who allegedly had his role increased because he was very popular. If you've watched it, you know exactly who I'm talking about.

[Olinser]

It might have been better to have the shadow war in the 4th season and the civil war in the 5th, but I think it worked out good. Both wars were connected, after all. Seasons 2-4 are the big war arc, but 1 is the set up and 5 is the aftermath.

I'm glad they did not have to do the more modern ''semi-arc'' where it is all in the first three episodes...then they do like 15 normal ''random'' shows, and then ''suddenly'' get back to the arc for the last couple shows of the season and end with the ''boom! everyone dies....or do they? tune in next year!''

The telepath war could have been a lot more....think like Byron discovers the Vorlon telepath creator space station, maybe with the help of a Drac buddy. And wants to turn everyone into Teeps....but the process kills 50% of the folks. Telepaths of all races join up....especially all the ones that were ''weaponized'' by Sheridan. So this makes a nice ''mistake'' that poor John has to wrap up as he created the telepath army to fight the shadows. And for even more of a twist, some races like the Narn are all like ''please zap our planet'' and side with the telepaths. And even more so as a Drac plot to use the ''Tele-Star'' to zap the Centuri home world...twice. Nice plots within plots.

Yeah but they couldn't do that in the 4th and 5th seasons because they thought they were getting cancelled after season 4. They accelerated the schedule and completed their main story in season 4, then had to pull a 5th season storyline out of their collective colons when they got picked up by another network.

[Darth Ultron]

Yeah but they couldn't do that....

Well, real life often writes fiction...nothing much you can do about that.