Europa Universalis IV Thread 4: Divine Wind

[Leecros]

"Europa Universalis 4 is the 4th in a series of Grand Strategy games by Paradox Interactive, set in the years 1444-1821, the Age of Exploration, Enlightenment and Empire Building. You control a nation from the period and seek to guide it to a grand destiny, through trade, conquest, religious strife, colonization and technological ingenuity. You can visit the Paradox Forums for detailed information, and there is a good fan-supported Wiki for more strategy and reference." - OrcusMcP

Currently there are Ten major expansion DLC's with the most current one (Mandate of Heaven) reworking Eastern Asia including China and Japan along with the addition of various ages throughout the game and...other things.

I felt like now was a good time to start a new thread. The previous one kind of died off and it seemed more reasonable to start a new discussion rather than resurrect one from months ago.

Useful links:

Previous thread
Official forums
Fan wiki


Now that all of the formality stuff is out of the way....

I'll be honest. There's a lot of things i like about the new DLC. I like the new mechanics for China, Japan, and Manchu, I really like the Diplomatic Macrobuilder.

But I have to say...The whole Historical Ages thing...It doesn't really interest me one bit. Really, it feels like something pulled straight out of a Civilization game. I don't want to meet arbitrary objectives that the game devs put out for me.I want to do my own thing and set my own objectives. That has been pretty much the draw of the Paradox Strategy Games for me since I started playing them.

Edit: Changed the thread name from Mandate of Heaven to Divine Wind, because I found the fact that this is the fourth thread for EUIV, Divine Wind was the fourth expansion to Europa Universalis III, and both Divine Wind and Mandate of Heaven overhauled Eastern Asia amusing.

[The Great Wyrm]

Quality of life improvements (like automated diplomats) are always welcome.

Also: the Historical Ages thing would make more sense if it had more ties to technology and Institutions.

[divitorobert]

Actually the country that most Americans originate from genetically is Germany , much more so than Ireland.

[Leecros]

Also: the Historical Ages thing would make more sense if it had more ties to technology and Institutions.

Well, they are...sort of. The Age of Reformation starts after the Protestant Reformation kicks off, but the other two Ages all have triggers based on when an Institution appears.

[CozJa]

Mh... I restarted plating it after a year and a half and... well, I'm addicted again, damn! I think I'll use the sale to buy some DLC I'm missing...

If I have to choose two, what would you say? Currently I'm thinking Art of War and Common Sense (I only own El Dorado and Res Publica)

[Sian]

AoW and CS seems to be the two most widely loved ... with RoM in third

[Eldan]

So, what do those ages actually do, for someone who hasn't read the diaries?

[tonberrian]

So, what do those ages actually do, for someone who hasn't read the diaries?

Each age has some specific mechanics associated with it. Like the first two allow declaring crusades and excommunicating. There's also a set of objectives each age, the more you fill the more PP you get, and you also get an accumulating resource each age that allows you to buy specific perks that age - but they go away once the next one rolls around.

At least, that's what I recall. Haven't tried them out myself, yet.

[Eldan]

Is there a menu for those ages somewhere where you can see all that? Clicking the age title at the top does nothing.

[Leecros]

So I decided to do my first game as Ming and Dear God Dat Ming....They are so powerful now that i'm sure if the Ming AI wasn't specifically tailored to focus on Tributaries and not expand, we would see Ming as a super dangerous late-game power.

with that said, my Random New World is both amazing and baffling.

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It's a pillar of land that sits between Europe and the other New World continent(you can see it on the minimap). It's amazing, but some of those colonial nation regions look really weird and the particular section i took a screenshot of has traditional colonial nation names like it was a non-Random New World(like Colonial Canada and California). Plus some of the colonial nations in that area are really tiny(Colonial Alaska in particular with 5 provinces).


Edit:

Then there's this...."Thing"

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Ah yes. I believe we are all familiar with the Great empire known as c08....Yeah, i think there's something weird with this particular Random New World tile. Which is unfortunate, because outside of the weirdness it is awesome.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Ugh, I just can't play EUIV anymore. I try, but every time I sidetrack myself with how awesome everything is going to be once the MEIOU+T team (and especially Demiansky) release their population overhaul. I really want to play more EUIV though...

[Eldan]

Cxx is probably just for "colonial region name X" and they didn't put in a proper number eight.

[Leecros]

Ugh, I just can't play EUIV anymore. I try, but every time I sidetrack myself with how awesome everything is going to be once the MEIOU+T team (and especially Demiansky) release their population overhaul. I really want to play more EUIV though...

I really like M&T. I remember i did a EU3 series of MEIOU on these forums and that was a bunch of fun.(and then bad stuff happened to my computer and I lost the save file and was too disappointed to tell anyone)

I like M&T just as much as EU3's MEIOU, but there are times where I like the simplicity of vanilla EU4. Especially considering Dei Gratia drives me nuts at times when minority religions don't do what I want. There's also the fact that it runs more slowly than CKII...

[Aotrs Commander]

If anyone is interested, over on ponythread, I'm doing another of my sporadic Bleakplays plays, this time a psuedo-achievement run aiming for psuedo-achieving Ideas Guy. (Psuedo because I don't actually play ironman.)

Bleakplays Plays EUIV: Necrolantis Rises!
Necrolantis Arises! 01
Necrolantis Arises! 02



Regardless, I am about to pick my second idea group (first was exploration) and suggestions would be welcomed. To summarise the situation for them as is not bothered about reading the whole thing: my current situation is Cape Verde capital, about 80% of my first colony (in random new world) but no other provinces and with a low cash inflow. (All expansions enabled, no mods.) My nominal short-list is Administration, Religious, Trade, Quality, Quantity and Offensive and possibly Economic - which would be the next choice. I was leaning towards a military one, but I was reading elswhere it might be better to keep pushing mil tech for a bit; if so, it wants to be one of the admin ones. Thoughts?

[Sian]

Well, if I had been in your shoes I'd have focused on early Military Tech and ganked Western Africa while waiting on Colonists to come in, so you had the economy to push onwards ... Also, given that you have early colonists as your second idea, I would probably not have taken Exploration first, as you simply can't afford keeping 3 colonies rolling yet (although that could also make a case for reshuffling your ideas so you get military ideas early where you're going to need to war against people bigger than you)

[Leecros]

Sometimes I swear that I'm the only one who likes Innovative...

[Sian]

Sometimes I swear that I'm the only one who likes Innovative...

Innovative have some of the best policies ... but unless you're in a position where you can run those, it simply loses the fight between the Papermana groups, specially against Administrative and Either Religious/Humanist (depending on preference) ... by it self its middling good at all times, but often there's groups that is better (Economy if ducat income is your bottleneck, Expansion if you want to push colonization).

When you are in a position where there is no obvious picks (because you've taken all the low-hanging fruit for the style of game you want to play) then Innovative is very strong, but by itself its a resounding 'eh' ...

[Leecros]

When you are in a position where there is no obvious picks (because you've taken all the low-hanging fruit for the style of game you want to play) then Innovative is very strong, but by itself its a resounding 'eh' ...

the biggest thing about Innovative in my opinion are the pulse events that it gives you access to. There's 10 of them. Three just give you a free 50 monarch points outright, one gives you -5% on all of your techs for 10 years, one gives you -10% tech cost in a category of your choosing for 10 yeras, one gives you a free 10 prestige. then i guess there's the bad ones...-1 stab, -5 Prestige, -10 prestige, and +5% Tech cost.

But mostly for the three 50 Monarch Points events and the reduced tech costs. The sooner you get Innovative, the more useful it is throughout the course of the game.

[Eldan]

So, played around as Ming about and... yeah, the new mechanics are nice, but I felt something strange.

I don't want to conquer my neighbors anymore. They are all paying me that lovely tribute, refilling my manpower every time I need it...

And without conquering everyone, I don't really know what to actually do in this game. I mean, I might just try and ttake on Japan or Oirat, for being the only neighbors to refuse me, but that seems foolish.

[CozJa]

I too love Innovative! Sure, the ideas are not spectacular, but the events are. I remember when I used it playing with Sweden paired with Administrative, spamming cheap mercs against the never ending hordes of Mother Russia, while the emperor took every moment of weakness to attack me and steal my Baltic empire.
I think I passed at least ten years with 0 manpower surviving only with supercheap Mercenary Swedish Space Marines.

[Leecros]

I don't want to conquer my neighbors anymore. They are all paying me that lovely tribute, refilling my manpower every time I need it...

And without conquering everyone, I don't really know what to actually do in this game. I mean, I might just try and ttake on Japan or Oirat, for being the only neighbors to refuse me, but that seems foolish.

Diplovassalize!

The biggest advantage that them being your tributary has is that it improves trust. Trust is a huge modifier for vassalizing people and it increases your "borders" and allows you to turn more nations into your tributary. Turn a nation like Nepal into a Tributary, then vassalize(and then March them because Nepal has some great military ideas) them and you can turn half of India into tributaries. Then intervene when Vjayanagar and Delhi try to take your minions away from you. All the meanwhile spread your colonial empire.

[Eldan]

So, unless I'm somehow missing it, there's no way to turn a tributary into a vassal, other than finishing the tributary relationship, then trying to vassalize them. Which not only pisses them off to the tune of -50 opinion, but also means that you don't actually know if they would be vassalizeable.

On the other hand, I love the Queen Regent system. My 1/1/1 emperor was just succeeded by a 4/3/6 Korean queen regent who will rule 12 years before the (crappy) heir comes to power.

[Sian]

The Donation drive for the Swiss Army successful.



was tired of barely being able to war without having to get a few loans, and had to keep warring as to not waste my massive Improve relation (Diplomatic Idea 4, Humanist Idea 6, advisor, Protestant, high Prestige), and to keep Austria from getting frisky with unlawful territory demands ... and given that I'm ahead of time with Printing press spawned in the middle of my lands (although strictly speaking not in my lands but rather a Palatinate enclave) I both need the money, and aren't short on Administrative Power to buy off the Inflation

[Leecros]

So before the most recent DLC came out, I decided to play a nice and relaxing game as Poland and get the Poland Can Into Space achievement. I had planned to form The Commonwealth and beat up Russia, but not really do anything big...And then I got a Personal Union over Bohemia....And then I won the Thirty Years War...Then I became Holy Roman Empire(without even trying)...Then I got a Personal Union over France(and near the end Great Britain).

It was around the PU with France that I lamented my not taking Idea groups that focused around conquering vast amounts of land. I planned on a nice,relaxing game to get one achievement...Not one where I turned myself into a superpower. In the end, I was only able to conquer Europe and most of The New World...

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(And I got something like 15 achievements in total...including Poland Can Into Space, A decent reserve, Black Jack, Fanatic Collectivist, and more)

there's no way to turn a tributary into a vassal, other than finishing the tributary relationship, then trying to vassalize them. Which not only pisses them off to the tune of -50 opinion, but also means that you don't actually know if they would be vassalizeable.

This is a factually accurate statement. with that said, based on the size of Ming and the bonuses from trust which i think caps out at +20; you can diplovassalize a lot of minors. Especially those morsels in the southwest and the minors in India.

[Sian]

Ugh, I just can't play EUIV anymore. I try, but every time I sidetrack myself with how awesome everything is going to be once the MEIOU+T team (and especially Demiansky) release their population overhaul. I really want to play more EUIV though...

I really don't get this fandom hype for meiou+t ... while it might well be one of the bigger mods, the number of players is still only 0.7% of the total playerbase ... and from hearing those that have boarded the hypetrain, you'd sometimes believe that they would rather be forced to binge reality tv for several days in a row without being allowed to sleep, than playing the vanilla EU4.

At least the equivalents from CK2 (them being those that hypes about GoT) have the excuse of radically retooling the game to fit an existing (well ... fictional) world that had a stupidly big following even when the mod came out.

The closest thing i recall, is quite frankly the hypetrain that was pulling No Mans Sky and that's not something anyone want to be compared to

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

It's a personal thing. It's very niche by design. It adds a ridiculous amount of depth to an already niche game. For those of us that need that depth, we can't return to a comparably shallow version of the game. I have the same thing about any mods that add similar levels of historical plausibility to the games, like HIP for CK2.

Sure, it doesn't change the setting, but that's window dressing changes. It changes every aspect of the rest of the game, and the new edition that I'm so excited for changes the economic system, a complete rewrite, modelling trade and population in a more dynamic way. I try to play vanilla, and I conquer a few countries, but then that has no major effects on my own economy? I turned half of Aragon into a burning wasteland but across the border Spain feels no effects? Now that I know that it doesn't HAVE to be that way, how can I accept lesser detail? How can I accept lesser plausibility?

Note that I don't say everyone should play it. Most people are content with map painting in a historical setting. I and those who play the same mods I play don't want a historical setting and freedom when we hit play, we want things to follow from existing historical constraints and trends after we hit play. It's not about popularity, the goal isn't "everyone should drop what they're doing and install the same set of mods I play". It's "I find the vanilla game to be too game-y and not enough simulation-y for my personal tastes, so I can't play without increasing its simulationist verisimilitude." You see the difference?

[Leecros]

At least the equivalents from CK2 (them being those that hypes about GoT) have the excuse of radically retooling the game to fit an existing (well ... fictional) world that had a stupidly big following even when the mod came out.

Interestingly enough, part of the reason I play M&T is that it doesn't radically retool the game to turn it into fictional world. I can't play AGOT and only rarely play Elder Kings, because I play them for awhile and find them uninteresting.

[CozJa]

So... who's going to play Hungary when the new patch comes out? I'm surely going to!

[Sian]

When I'm finished with my current game (aiming for the Switzerlake Achievement) I'm strongly considering a Mongolia->Yuan Empire, aiming for Great Khan Achievement

I'm of the type that needs Achievements to keep myself focused and interested in extended/multiple game sessions

[CozJa]

When I'm finished with my current game (aiming for the Switzerlake Achievement) I'm strongly considering a Mongolia->Yuan Empire, aiming for Great Khan Achievement

I'm of the type that needs Achievements to keep myself focused and interested in extended/multiple game sessions

Same for me here. And to think that when my PC broke down a year ago I was in 1700 during a "Poland can into space" run... I've never had the courage to play a game with Poland again!