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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Babylon 5 Group Re-Watch!

    This thread is for a scheduled group re-watch of Babylon 5, which is currently available streaming from Go90 (at least in some areas - I personally have the DVDs and will be watching that way).

    We'll watch 3 episodes a week, at least through Season 1 (continuing for Season 2). Discussion for that week's episodes will start each Sunday (Algeh will make a post officially "opening" discussion on the three new episodes on Saturday night/Sunday morning and link that post to the date in this post, so you can jump to the discussions for any set of episodes easily).


    Spoiler: Season 1
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    Season One:

    April 16th:
    • The Gathering (Pilot) (not available streaming, apparently, but we'll discuss it anyway for those who have the DVDs)
    • Midnight on the Firing Line
    • Soul Hunter


    April 23rd:
    • Born to the Purple
    • Infection
    • The Parliament of Dreams


    April 30th:
    • Mind War
    • The War Prayer
    • And The Sky Full Of Stars


    May 7th:
    • Deathwalker
    • Believers
    • Survivors


    May 14th:
    • By Any Means Necessary
    • Signs and Portents
    • TKO


    May 21st:
    • Grail
    • Eyes
    • Legacies


    May 28th:
    • A Voice in the Wilderness part 1
    • A Voice in the Wilderness part 2
    • Babylon Squared


    June 4th:
    • The Quality of Mercy
    • Chrysalis


    Spoiler: Season 2
    Show
    Season Two:

    June 11th
    • Points of Departure
    • Revelations


    June 18th:
    • The Geometry of Shadows
    • A Distant Star
    • The Long Dark


    June 25th:
    • A Spider in the Web
    • Soul Mates
    • A Race Through Dark Places


    July 2nd:
    • The Coming of Shadows
    • GROPOS
    • All Alone in the Night


    July 9th:
    • Acts of Sacrifice
    • Hunter, Prey
    • There All the Honor Lies


    July 16th:
    • And Now For a Word
    • In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum
    • Knives


    July 23rd:
    • Confessions and Lamentations
    • Divided Loyalties
    • The Long, Twilight Struggle


    July 30th:
    • Comes the Inquisitor
    • The Fall of Night



    Spoiler: Season 3
    Show

    Season 3:

    August 6th:
    • Matters of Honor
    • Convictions


    August 13th:
    • A Day in the Strife
    • Passing Through Gethsemane
    • Voices of Authority


    August 20th:
    • Dust to Dust
    • Exogenesis


    August 27th:
    • Messages from Earth
    • Point of No Return
    • Severed Dreams


    September 3rd:
    • Ceremonies of Light and Dark
    • Sic Transit Vir
    • A Late Delivery from Avalon


    September 10th:
    • Ship of Tears
    • Interludes and Examinations


    September 17th:
    • War Without End, Part One
    • War Without End, Part Two


    September 24th:
    • Walkabout
    • Grey 17 Is Missing
    • And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place


    October 1st:
    • Shadow Dancing
    • Z'ha'dum



    Spoiler: Season 4
    Show

    Season 4:

    October 8th:
    • The Hour of the Wolf
    • Whatever Happened to Mr. Garibaldi?
    • The Summoning


    October 15th:
    • Falling Toward Apotheosis
    • The Long Night
    • Into the Fire


    October 22nd:
    • Epiphanies
    • The Illusion of Truth
    • Atonement


    October 29th:
    • Racing Mars
    • Lines of Communication
    • Conflicts of Interest


    November 5th:
    • Rumors, Bargains and Lies
    • Moments of Transition
    • No Surrender, No Retreat


    November 12th:
    • The Exercise of Vital Powers
    • The Face of the Enemy
    • Intersections in Real Time


    November 19th:
    • Between the Darkness and the Light
    • Endgame
    • Rising Star


    November 26th:
    • The Deconstruction of Falling Stars
    • In The Beginning (tv movie about Minbari war)
    • Thirdspace (tv movie that takes place during season 4)



    Season 5:

    December 3rd:
    • No Compromises
    • The Very Long Night of Londo Mollari
    • The Paragon of Animals


    December 10th:
    • A View from the Gallery
    • Learning Curve
    • Strange Relations


    December 17th:
    • Secrets of the Soul
    • In the Kingdom of the Blind
    • A Tragedy of Telepaths


    December 24th:
    • Phoenix Rising
    • Day of the Dead
    • The Ragged Edge


    December 31st:
    • The Corps is Mother, The Corps is Father
    • Meditations on the Abyss
    • Darkness Ascending


    January 7th:
    • And All My Dreams, Torn Asunder
    • Movements of Fire and Shadow
    • The Fall of Centauri Prime


    January 14th:
    • Wheel of Fire
    • Objects in Motion
    • Objects at Rest


    January 21st:
    • Sleeping in Light


    Thread spoiler guidelines: If it is a spoiler for the three episodes currently under discussion or episodes discussed earlier in the schedule, go for it! No spoiler tag needed. (If you're not caught up by Sunday and care about spoilers, stop reading when you see the post marking the start of discussion on that set of episodes until you can get caught up.)

    If it's a spoiler for Babylon 5 episodes not yet "watched" on the thread's schedule, please use the spoiler tag. If it's a spoiler for something unrelated to Babylon 5, please indicate what you're spoiling when you use the tag and use the spoiler tag as you would in any other media thread.


    Spoiler guidelines changed as of the 5/7/17 discussion: New spoiler guidelines: feel free to discuss anything from the Babylon 5 series without using spoiler tags if you so choose. Please continue to use spoiler tags for things unrelated to Babylon 5 as you would in any other media thread.

    Go forth and watch some B5! Until Sunday, this thread is a good place to discuss re-watch logistics.

    For general Babylon 5 discussion, a thread is currently (April 2017) available here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...streaming-free
    Last edited by Algeh; Yesterday at 06:54 AM. Reason: weekly link update

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Babylon 5 Group Re-Watch!

    i'm up for that, hope i'm not the only one

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Babylon 5 Group Re-Watch!

    I think the only version of the pilot we have is the unedited one...on VHS (and we have no vcr anymore anyway) but I'll definitely try to watch the rest with the group!

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    Default Re: Babylon 5 Group Re-Watch!

    Im watching it now, but i skipped the pilot as i have no access to it
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    Default Re: Babylon 5 Group Re-Watch!

    Note- "The Gathering" exists in two forms. The original pilot, and a slightly more tolerable 1998 reedit by the show runner. The improved version chops off the worst bits, adds a bit of context, and replaces the clashing guitar screech with a soundtrack more in keeping with the show proper.

    The pilot is also entirely skippable, as it's less an introduction to the show and more a protoform of something that would eventually become Babylon 5. Characterization and setting elements are altered, and the only element of greater arc significance will be explained later.

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    Default Re: Babylon 5 Group Re-Watch!

    Quote Originally Posted by Legato Endless View Post
    Note- "The Gathering" exists in two forms. The original pilot, and a slightly more tolerable 1998 reedit by the show runner. The improved version chops off the worst bits, adds a bit of context, and replaces the clashing guitar screech with a soundtrack more in keeping with the show proper.

    The pilot is also entirely skippable, as it's less an introduction to the show and more a protoform of something that would eventually become Babylon 5. Characterization and setting elements are altered, and the only element of greater arc significance will be explained later.
    Yes, I'd actually say for people that haven't seen the series before its BETTER to not watch the pilot at all. It will just confuse you when you're trying to get a handle on the universe.

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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Babylon 5 Group Re-Watch!

    Quote Originally Posted by Legato Endless View Post
    The pilot is also entirely skippable, as it's less an introduction to the show and more a protoform of something that would eventually become Babylon 5. Characterization and setting elements are altered, and the only element of greater arc significance will be explained later.
    Not to mention that some plans got dropped after the pilot--for example, Delenn was supposed to start out as a man, which is why she looks almost unrecognisable in the pilot despite being played as the same actress.

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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Babylon 5 Group Re-Watch!

    The pilot is a little bit different, yeah, but it was what got me hooked on the show in the first place. I watched it the first time it aired in Australia many, many years ago and got hooked. Mostly I wanted to know what the whole mystery about the Vorlons was.

    Watched every single episode bar one live when they aired as well. Luckily the one I missed I managed to have taped (on VHS no less) so I didn't miss it.

    At some point I need to finish collecting the series. Got the movie collection and the first two seasons. Need to pick up the last three at some point.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default The Gathering (Pilot), Midnight on the Firing Line, Soul Hunter

    This week, we'll be discussing:
    • The Gathering (Pilot)
    • Midnight on the Firing Line
    • Soul Hunter


    As per the thread guidelines, no spoiler tags needed for things from these episodes, but please use spoiler tags for anything related to later episodes. (We may drop this rule in a few weeks if it becomes clear that no one following the thread is new to the series, but I'd like to keep it newbie-friendly for now.)

    My thoughts:

    The Gathering: I really wish I had a copy of the originally aired version. I have the re-edited version as part of the DVDs, which I know is "better", but I think it would be interesting to watch the two versions back to back and compare them. (I saw the original when it first aired, but that was, obviously, a long time ago.)

    Also, that scene where Sinclair deals with the "tourist problem" is one of the most awkwardly forced feeling scenes I've seen. I'm not quite sure what about it rubs me the wrong way, but the acting feels off.

    I'll probably add more to the discussion later in the week, but right now I just want to get this post up so I can go to sleep.

    Go forth and discuss!

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    Default Re: Babylon 5 Group Re-Watch!

    Skipping The Gathering, it doesn't add anything to the series IMO.

    Midnight On The Firing Line is a decent episode, even if the ending is a bit of a huge asspull. It does a serviceable job of introducing most of the main characters and giving basic characterization, most of them are interesting although Ivanova comes across as just a raging ***** in the first few episodes.

    As far as the space battle goes, I've always been torn. I've always been pretty pleased that the crew that designed the space battles understands what a LOT of sci-fi writers don't - that having fixed forward firing weapons on fighters with no turning radius is utterly ludicrous in space, where you can maneuver equally in 3 dimensions and change the facing of your ship without altering your momentum. That's a huge plus, but the minus is the VERY dated graphics these days, they make you extremely conscious that you're watching CGI. But still, a major plus on the design of the human fighters, IMO. The resolution of the episode as I said is the only really bad part of the episode, it just gets pulled out of nowhere as if they suddenly realized they needed to resolve the plot. "Oh hey those random raiders attacking supply ships? The antagonists JUST HAPPENED to have sold them weapons, and they JUST HAPPENED to have a single person on their ship who JUST HAPPENED to be monitoring ultra-secret military communications and was stupid enough to keep a record of them and let us find them!" There were so many better ways they could have resolved that.

    Soul Hunter is basically a filler episode, not great, not terrible, you get some more introduction to the characters and get info that Delenn is IMPORTANT PERSON. Decent premise and execution, but pretty forgettable as an episode.
    Last edited by Olinser; 2017-04-16 at 03:25 AM.

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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Babylon 5 Group Re-Watch!

    One thing I remember about "The Gathering": it really showcased how little care the guys doing the 3D graphics had for scale. There's a bit where the station wobbles in the direction of a suddenly tiny Vorlon fleet and looks absolutely massive, yet in other first season episodes it seems much smaller. I believe that they didn't actually lock down the size of the station until the second season--it's just mentioned as massing 2.5 million tons in the voiceover intro in the first season, which seems pretty darned light for something which is supposed to be five miles long!

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    Default Re: Babylon 5 Group Re-Watch!

    I didn't like Midnight on the Firing Line, i don't know it just felt poorly done to me. Maybe it was the fact that it felt like they were dealing with a really big thing on episode one and then its just kinda swept aside later. Personally i almost feel like Soul Hunter would have been a better first episode. We are introduced to the Dr. and its mostly a character episode.
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    Default Re: Babylon 5 Group Re-Watch!

    Season 1 has its weaknesses, but myopic as this compliment might be, there ain't nothing wrong with that into. Expository themes are increasingly popular in Television, especially ditching any kind of opening song. Often as not this doesn't work. We're granted some painful backstory, it's irrelevant and clumsy and so tedious. But this? This works just fine.

    The audience gets the premise, they get teased with unfamiliar but curious terms, there's none of the increasingly tacky action cuts that finally render Season 5's intro incomprehensible, and the first of JMS' geeky shout outs to LOTR gets nestled in. It borrows pretty consciously from Star Trek:TNG, itself a classic intro, and it's minimalism has allowed it to age fairly gracefully.

    Yes. It's a bit cornball, but that too is part of the series about very important people on the UN in Space. Most of all its very empathically moody. B5 is a slow burning mystery with interruptions of big reveals. The music, here and in the episodes themselves, is absolutely crucial to selling that.

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    Default Re: Babylon 5 Group Re-Watch!

    I dunno, I think you might still need Midnight first because it sets up a more important plot - the enmity between the Narns and the Centauri. Soul Hunters does cover some deep background of the Minbari and hints at Delenn's significance, but that isn't as important as laying the groundwork for the Narn/Centauri cold war that influences so many events.

    Re-watching, I keep shaking my head over the "main cast must do everything" stuff that we're finally starting to outgrow. Yes, let's have the top-ranked officer in the station take a fighter out to hunt raiders. Then have him go personally hunt down a serial killer, that'll work great!

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    Default Re: Babylon 5 Group Re-Watch!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    I dunno, I think you might still need Midnight first because it sets up a more important plot - the enmity between the Narns and the Centauri. Soul Hunters does cover some deep background of the Minbari and hints at Delenn's significance, but that isn't as important as laying the groundwork for the Narn/Centauri cold war that influences so many events.

    Re-watching, I keep shaking my head over the "main cast must do everything" stuff that we're finally starting to outgrow. Yes, let's have the top-ranked officer in the station take a fighter out to hunt raiders. Then have him go personally hunt down a serial killer, that'll work great!
    Yeah, Midnight really can't be skipped. It's one of the four most important episodes of Season 1 along with "Signs and Portents", "Babylon Squared" and, "Chrysalis."

    The protagonists do everything is pretty funny too, although it's symptomatic of the era. So many elite flying aces in upper management! It's perfectly believable given the background, but it's representative of B5's occasionally flirtation with being an action serial.

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    Default Re: Babylon 5 Group Re-Watch!

    Ok, maybe not skip, but i feel the episode goes from 0-100 way to fast. I mean, the opening episode of the series involves a Narn invasion of a Centauri planet, and Londo is nearly driven to murder. And then, neat as can be, its all tied up nice and tidy. I just feel like it didn't have enough of a lasting effect.

    Maybe they could have just showcased the Narn Centauri Cold War with a bit lower stakes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Guigarci View Post
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Babylon 5 Group Re-Watch!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post

    Re-watching, I keep shaking my head over the "main cast must do everything" stuff that we're finally starting to outgrow. Yes, let's have the top-ranked officer in the station take a fighter out to hunt raiders. Then have him go personally hunt down a serial killer, that'll work great!
    Sinclair has a reason for that, which is brought up a little later on. (And the Sky Full of Stars I think?)

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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Babylon 5 Group Re-Watch!

    I recall that (much) later on Sheridan absolutely jumped at the chance to go out in a fighter, because he'd been station-bound for a while and wanted to "stretch his legs", as it were. Nothing entirely unreasonable about that, to my mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Sinclair has a reason for that, which is brought up a little later on. (And the Sky Full of Stars I think?)
    He, in fact, gets called out on that specifically, in "Infection", which is an episode where Sinclair rather clearly puts himself at risk when others would be better candidates. And Garibaldi in general has pretty good reason to jump into those things.

    Also, for "Midnight on the Firing Line", Sinclair actually has pretty good reasons. First, he's the one who actually knows what he's looking for in order to find the link to the Narn and hopefully the evidence he needs to end the situation. Second, if he stays he'll have to go to the Council and vote based on what the Senate told him to do, whereas if he goes he can use the lie excuse that Ivanova didn't get the message and at least can act as if Earth might vote for sanctions.

    For the most part, early, Sinclair getting involved directly is fairly well explained, except for the aforementioned "Infection".
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Babylon 5 Group Re-Watch!

    Kinda sad watching the show again and knowing so many of the actors have died in the meantime - G'kar, Sinclair, Garibaldi, Doctor Franklin, Zack Allen, Zathras and probably some more I'm forgetting.

    The Gathering

    You can tell it was made just after the 80s ended as some of the hair and clothing were still hanging around.

    They also hadn't quite nailed the look they were after either. The main three races were still not quite to their final forms and the lesser background races were totally different from the show, as were the weapons shown.

    Oh, and Mr Morden apparently used to work in B5's C&C.

    But it did serve to introduces the core ideas and mysteries into the show - the Vorlons, the Earth-Minbari war, the Narn-Centauri problems.

    And for the very sharp eyes, if you could read the display when the Minbari assassin entered Del Varner's quarters, you could see that the palm reader registered that he was in fact Laurel Takashima, the 2IC. The plan was that she was going to be the corrupt officer who was involved in the shady part of EarthGov. Except she left the show between the pilot and the start of season 1.

    Midnight on the Firing Line
    Technically you could almost call this the pilot version 2. Introducing characters and concepts. And the Narn look like they are being set up as the resident bad guys, even if some of the back story is touched on, about just how brutal the Centauri invasion and occupation of their home world had been.

    And it contains the first (and only) appearance of the Narn T'Loth class Assault Cruiser. (Yeah, its sad, I know the names of the ship classes.) Luckily it was replaced with the utterly gorgeous G'Quan class Heavy Cruiser, one of the best looking ships in all of sci-fi.

    Soul Hunter

    The Soul Hunters were an interesting concept. B5 is an unusual show given how heavily religion and spirituality is wrapped up in it. Just look at the Minbari and Narn for that. The Minbari practically hang their hat on it and the Narn, despite their rather belligerent nature, are also very spiritual, probably an indication of what they were really like before the Centauri came along.

    On the matter of CGI, yeah, up close it can look a little dated but it isn't too bad for distance work.

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    Question Re: Babylon 5 Group Re-Watch!

    Re-Watching...

    The Gathering Well, this two hour movie/double episode spends a lot of time introducing the characters, setting and universe. And you get the attempted murder. And bits and pieces and hints and clues about both the history and the arc. Most you won't catch on watching it the first time, and many only make sense looking back.

    I'm not really sure why everyone says the ''CGI aged badly''....I'll take Bablyon 5's CGI vs say the spam mess of CGI in movies like Batman vs Superman.

    *Things That Don't Make Sense-Kosh, the Vorlon is poisoned? If Kosh is just a physical humanoid in an encounter suit then sure, maybe, he can be poisoned. And if he has a biology like humans and other life forms. And just going by this episode it is possible as ''no one knows what a Vorlon'' is like....but if you have watched a couple more seasons it makes no sense at all. Even when we see Kosh in the very next episode it would seem that poison would not effect him. Though it is possible there are anti-Vorlon poisons in the universe too.

    So there is a special poison on Planet X that can kill Vorlons and Commander Sinclar's girlfriend just happened to be there right before coming to Babylon 5? One wonders how the ''conspiracy'' pulled that off.

    And how did ''the conspiracy'' stop the lift Sinclar was in, fake the power failure, and erase all that from the computer. That is a lot of work and it would seem someone on the Bablyon 5 staff would need to be involved...but this is never brought up.

    Really, the only way it all makes sense is if the Vorlons are faking all of it....and that is very possible. After all it seems clear in the very next episode that Kosh does not need all that ''life support'', but it does keep him hidden and others away.

    A whole Vorlon fleet to pick up a single suspected murderer seems like a bit much and the whole ''turn him over in five of your Earth minutes or we will blow up the station'' seems very odd.

    G'Kar wants to have telepath kids? And somehow thinks that a single mating act will do this, though we are told ''breading a telepath'' is not easy. And all most every race has telepaths, why not collect ''telepath DNA'' from all of them?

    *Anachronisms- People read ''Universe Today'' on ''paper''. And sure, the daily newspaper was still a thing back in the 90's....but after 2000 and the rise of the internet the idea of a ''daily paper'' is not all that common anymore. But a print newspaper in 2258?

    The Bab-Com system is meant to be a futuristic two way audio/visual communications device.....using picture tube TV screens with fuzzy analog low resolution displays and graphics, and a really noticeable ''beep'' and scrambled screen when turned on or off. 2258 has worse communications then the average 2017 Skipe/Facetime call...

    *Equipment Oddities--Notice the Links were worn on the wrist?
    Notice the ''Defense Grid'' is just a couple cannons?
    Notice all the Earth weapons look like Yard Sale Star Trek phasers?
    There are plenty of floating drone cameras around, at least for now.
    What ever happens to Delenn's gravity rings?
    This might be the only mention ever of nanotech....

    *Blink and You Will Miss It--When Kosh meets Sinclar in Lyta's vision (the fake assassin Sinclar, anyway) he says "Entil'zha Valen"...and that is just gibberish unless you have watched a couple more seasons.

    *The Arc-Well we get a bit of history and dropped names...but mostly we find out Sinclar is ''missing a day'', and Delenn knows...something.

    *Final Score-C

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    Default Re: Babylon 5 Group Re-Watch!

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Ultron View Post
    I'm not really sure why everyone says the ''CGI aged badly''....I'll take Bablyon 5's CGI vs say the spam mess of CGI in movies like Batman vs Superman.
    I don't quite see it either. Spaceships are a really good subject for CGI, after all, and the design of the B5 ones excels--every race has their own ship designs that are clearly different from those of other races. The only slightly dodgy CGI are the way explosions are presented prior to (I think) the third season, where they're just a bunch of particle effects--they don't look good.

    What they did right was to use practical effects for the alien make-up. If they'd tried to CGI G'kar, can you imagine how bad *that* would look now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Ultron View Post
    The Gathering
    ...

    *Things That Don't Make Sense-

    ...
    I'm generally inclined to say that anything from The Gathering beyond the broad-strokes plot is only canon if it's confirmed in the series proper. Out-of-universe, I believe there were years between wrapping production on The Gathering and starting production on the series itself, during which there were a number of setting details that underwent revisions. For example, the more elaborate make-up on Minbari characters and the vocal modulation (which was edited out of Delenn's character but left intact for the assassin) were things because the Minbari were originally intended to be a not-sexually-dimorphic species.

    You do have a point about the poison, although I suppose if we're going with this It Ain't Necessarily So approach to the movie, it might be that there are poisons out there for non-corporeal and/or energy based life forms. And the Minbari have had closer dealings with the Vorlons than any of the younger races, so I can see clandestine knowledge of their natures being passed down among various clans and fanes and whatnot.

    Still, your idea that the whole thing was arranged by the Vorlons is intriguing.

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    Especially given the later implication that Ulkesh's attitude is more emblematic of the Vorlon's as a whole than Kosh's. Plus, they may have had a desire to take Sinclair and tweak him to suit his purpose like they did to Lyta.
    Last edited by Grey Watcher; 2017-04-21 at 03:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Watcher View Post
    Out-of-universe, I believe there were years between wrapping production on The Gathering and starting production on the series itself
    I don't think so? The Gathering was released in 1993 while the series proper started in 1994, so unless they filmed the pilot and then sat on it for years without releasing it, that doesn't work.

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    The CGI of Babylon 5 looks dated compared to Voyager, which only came out a few years later. Its still serviceable, but also very noticeable

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    Im in the middle of watching Babylon Squared and in the scene where Garibaldi helps up Sinclair after he gets launched on B4, there is a dude in 90s era clothing just sitting on a pile of crates. Is that one of the film crew or what?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    The CGI of Babylon 5 looks dated compared to Voyager, which only came out a few years later. Its still serviceable, but also very noticeable

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    Im in the middle of watching Babylon Squared and in the scene where Garibaldi helps up Sinclair after he gets launched on B4, there is a dude in 90s era clothing just sitting on a pile of crates. Is that one of the film crew or what?
    A better comparison would be to DS9, which was running at approximately the same time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olinser View Post
    A better comparison would be to DS9, which was running at approximately the same time.
    True, i forgot that. That does make it even more noticeable.
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    B5 didn't have the budget of Star Trek of any era. That was part of the reason they were using the Newtek Video Toaster, it was a darned sight cheaper than any alternative. I still think the effects are really not so bad--go and have a look at the massive space battle in "Severed Dreams" (OK, we're getting ahead of ourselves a bit there, since that's a season 3 episode) and tell me it doesn't still look pretty darned good.

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    On the poisoning a Vorlon thing, the weirdness behind that does get brought up again later. I can't remember how in-depth it gets discussed, but it's mentioned as being very strange.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Watcher View Post
    I'm generally inclined to say that anything from The Gathering beyond the broad-strokes plot is only canon if it's confirmed in the series proper.

    Still, your idea that the whole thing was arranged by the Vorlons is intriguing.
    It is true that all plots are a bit different then the actual show, but still things that don't make sense, don't make sense just stand alone. It's also interesting to note JMS ( J. Michael Straczynski) created/wrote much of it. So you'd think he would have known ''what is what'', but them maybe he just changed his mind...after all it will only happen like 100 more times during the show...

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Watcher View Post
    Still, your idea that the whole thing was arranged by the Vorlons is intriguing.
    Admittedly, as with most things with the Vorlons we don't really know ''what'' the Vorlon's are up too. Maybe by having Kosh get attacks and almost killed makes him seem more ''humanoid'' and not ''godlike'' to everyone. Maybe they wanted to oddly show ''harm our ambassador, and we will blow up the station''. Maybe they want to see how Earth reacts? Maybe it was all a ploy to get Sinclar and Deelin closer together, as that is what happens? Maybe...an oh boy, they are playing the long game of...deep breath....they want Sincar to remember the missing 24 hours, so they find the Minbari rebels and help them (maybe indirectly through like third parties) because they want to get ''rebel guy'' on the station who knows about the missing 24 hours AND get it so him and Sinclar will fight AND get the guy to say the whole ''there is a hole in your mind'' like one second before he dies to make sure Sinclar wonders about it and keeps digging.....

    Maybe the Vorlon's are just being strange and mysterious...to throw everyone off.


    Midnight on the Firing Line

    This is a good first episode. It lives up to the promise of a ''political drama show with action...in space.'' And we get to meet a couple new characters too.

    *Things that don't make sense- Wonder why Rogesh three has no military protection? It is a dangerous universe, you'd think they would have some. Guess it really is ''small and unimportant''.

    -So in Kosh's otherwise empty looking quarters he has a Dressing Screen(you know the kind you see in 1020's detective movies)? So, when he is alone Kosh ''dresses and undresses'' behind the screen? Odd. Unless he went out and got it just to mess with people that come and visit him....

    -When Sinclar goes out with the Starfury wing, he goes as ''Delta Leader''. Odd, real life folks never do that and have the leader ''Delta 20'', you know so the bad guys don't know who the leader is....

    -Ever wonder why Babylon 5 does not have an Earth Ambassador?

    -Wonder why the Raider ships fly around like ''20th century fighters?''

    -So is Galibaldi just ''pretending'' to be all hard core when he says he'd kill Londo? Like he would just say ''oh we did an illegal mind scan so I knew he was going to kill so I murdered him!'' Wouldn't that be an act of war?

    -Well we know Earth is all crazy about ''illegal mind scans'', but wonder what the rest of the universe thinks?

    -Everyone has little TV's in this episode and not the ''wall consul TVs'' most of the time.

    *TV Show Logic-Gabaldi flys a Starfury out to check on a cargo ship. Kinda odd that the ''chief of police'' does this, and even knows how to fly a Starfury. Even worse when Sinclar does it. But, of course, the main character on a TV show has to be given something to do.

    *Centari Dreams- So do all Centari get the 'dreams of death'? Even if they don't see ''when'', can they avoid the ''where''? Like if they see they will fall off a cliff, might they avoid cliffs. Or is it like the old avoiding death story where no matter what you do or where you go...you will meet death at the set time. Also, wonder how Centari got this ability? Touched by the Vorlons?

    *Vorlon Mysteries-so, Sincar sees Vorlons might be ''balls of light''....hummmm.

    *Starfuries! They really are nice space fighters. And we get to see a couple ''360'' flying moves.

    *Changed Premise- so super workaholic takes time off to go the casino everyday..odd. And in civilian clothing no less...Guess we will see her off duty in civilian clothing over the next five years, right....

    Final Score-B It's a nice episode. It does that the ''cowboy diplomacy'' ending where Sinclar gets to ''lock on and fire'' and get peace and a happy ending by battle. Otherwise it sets up a ton of stuff, and has lots of little details.

    Soul Hunter

    A mysterious alien race, and we meet the new doctor.

    *Things that don't make Sense-

    -Again, Sinclar goes out in a Starfury to grapple the ship...and it's just so odd to have the station commander do such things. But TV Logic....

    -The Soul Hunter needs needs some special atmosphere? Yet he walks around the station just fine? And so does Soul Hunter #2.

    -Soul Hunters seem to be an older race then the Minbari? They can do ''strange things''....

    -Does the ''Soul Hunter Death Vision'' have some sort of UHF distortion lines? Or is that just on the B5 master tape?

    -The Soul Hunter has been to Earth? Did anyone notice?

    -Commander Ivionva and Dr. Franklin personally do the space burial? Well no wonder they are both over worked....

    -The med lab guard really falls for the ''sick patient'' trick.....

    -Soul Hunter #2 is all arrogant when he says ''you know who and what I am'', but how is he so sure? Sinclar and all of Humankind only learned about Soul Hunters like what, a couple hours ago?

    -So...where did the Soul Hunter get his Soul Sucking Machine from? Was it hidden on his ship? It's a huge contraption! How do he carry it across the station? Guess N'Grat knows like secret highways....

    -Soul Hunter #2 points to ''here'' on a small like foot long map of Bablyon 5..to narrow the search down to like a circular mile?

    *N'Grat-he was a great puppet/character. He sure is a great salesman everything is ''hard and expensive''...

    *The Arc-we get a bit of Earth-Minbari war history, and that Minbari believe in reincarnation. Sincar is ''being used'' and Deleen is on the Gray Council?

    *Final Score-B. Another ok episode. And another tease and hint about the coming arc episode. The Soul hunters are nice and odd and mysterious.....hinting at an unknown universe full of wonder and mystery.
    Last edited by Darth Ultron; 2017-04-23 at 03:20 PM.

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