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  1. - Top - End - #331
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr View Post
    Nop. They were the Taramitudes originally
    As per the officially "sealed" "The Passing of the Technomages" Trilogy, if I recall correctly:

    Spoiler
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    The technology was indeed originally used by that alien race and species, but the race itself had died out completely by the time the "official" technomages started to use it. The technology could be used by pretty much any race, and so the technomages had a range of races in their ranks, including humans and Centauri. It is later revealed that not only was the technology from the Shadows, but that in fact the technomages had no idea how to create it and thus when they wanted to induct new members into their ranks they had to go and actually specifically meet with Shadow agents to have it created for them. When the Shadow War started, the technomages had to decide how to respond. At that point, the Council found out about the deal -- only the leader of the Council knew about it, at least officially, before then -- and decided that they couldn't fight the Shadows, but didn't want to become their soldiers, and so they decided to go into hiding, leading to the events on Babylon 5.

    As it turns out, the Shadow tech they were using also makes them aggressive, which seems to be a deliberate plan on the part of the Shadows. The original species wiped themselves out over just this sort of aggression, and it seems that the technomages might well go the same way. At any rate, with their rejection of the Shadows and with the Shadows leaving, there is no way for them to create new technology and so no way to induct new members into the technomages, and so regardless the technomages, as an Order, are eventually doomed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Ultron
    And that assumes the person who wrote down the scribbles did have an ''official seal'' . And that even if it got a seal it was not just an ''evil money grubbing faceless dude who gave the seal to anyone just to make money''.
    The full history was given in a book series where JMS was known for wanting to get out more history and not about making money. Additionally, many of these details were supposed to be revealed in the canon follow-up "Crusade", and many of them were: Galen's relationship and the details of the technomages and the fate of Elric through the meeting with Alwyn. But most importantly, the details that are not revealed in this episode are unimportant and not things that NEEDED to be revealed here. Them only being revealed in secondary works -- or in Crusade, where technomages were more important -- is perfectly appropriate and not an idea that the creator didn't find them important enough to bother mentioning. Well, okay, there is that, but it's not that they aren't important to the WORLD overall, but that they aren't important to THAT STORY ARC.
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  2. - Top - End - #332
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daimbert View Post
    As per the officially "sealed" "The Passing of the Technomages" Trilogy, if I recall correctly:
    Not a bad back story....too bad they could not have added like even a tiny, tiny, tiny bit to the episode.

    As a viewer, the Technomages don't look like anything other then silly Cosplay Fanboys with some silly tricks. The show can't even spare the thirty seconds it would have taken to have a character say ''wow, technomages, they are an ancient cult made up of members of all races that have strange, unknown technology and have been around for thousands of years." See...in less then thirty seconds they go from ''I can do magic mom'' to ''woah, something intresting''.

    And like when Elric talks to Sheridan, again he could have said something like ''We technomages are part of an ancient legacy, pasted down by person to person and race to race across the stars " and then said this whole ''I know the secret words of love'' thing.

    And it would have made more sense as to why ''Earth was interested in them''. The Episode makes it look like Earth is like ''find out why the Cosplay Fanboys are going to Comcon!'' and not ''Find out why the mysterious members of a secret cult with unknown technology and ancient legacy are going Beyond the Rim''.

    And it would have made more sense for the whole ''fear of the unknown''. The episode is like ''haha, look at the Cosplay Fanboy do his ''force choke'' on the guy who took his parking spot'' and not ''you will fall under an ancient and mysterious curse ".

    It's all about perception....

  3. - Top - End - #333
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Ultron View Post
    Not a bad back story....too bad they could not have added like even a tiny, tiny, tiny bit to the episode.

    As a viewer, the Technomages don't look like anything other then silly Cosplay Fanboys with some silly tricks. The show can't even spare the thirty seconds it would have taken to have a character say ''wow, technomages, they are an ancient cult made up of members of all races that have strange, unknown technology and have been around for thousands of years." See...in less then thirty seconds they go from ''I can do magic mom'' to ''woah, something intresting''.
    But they did. The entirety of Londo's sub-plot with them starts from him both hinting at their history and how it's an ominous sign, and links it back to a long-ago meeting between a technomage and the Centauri emperor. That's why Londo seeks them out, in order to get their endorsement because it will help HIM become emperor. So from that it's clear that they've been around for a long time, have power, have influence, and can be very, very scary. The only thing left out is if they are one race or are a mix of races, but I think the ones we see pretty much highlighted that already (although I could be mistaken about that), and isn't that important either.

    And it would have made more sense as to why ''Earth was interested in them''. The Episode makes it look like Earth is like ''find out why the Cosplay Fanboys are going to Comcon!'' and not ''Find out why the mysterious members of a secret cult with unknown technology and ancient legacy are going Beyond the Rim''.
    Earth wanted to know why this secret, mysterious and powerful group were suddenly arriving on Babylon 5 in force when, in general, you never saw more than one of them at any one point. The answer was "We're gathering together to leave to avoid the war", given in the episode. This is all made clear in the episode itself. Again, you are complaining that the episode didn't explain things that it specifically did explain.
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  4. - Top - End - #334
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    BlackDragon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Ultron View Post
    Everyone we see looks human. Londo even says ''look at that HUMAN technomage''
    Holy ****, 10 years of watching the show and i totally missed that.

    My bad. You are right; apparently Technomages do accept other races in their orser.

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    RedWizardGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Ultron View Post
    The Geometry of Shadows
    *Wimpy Ivanova- Remember when crazy violent Ivanova was scary...here she just gets..um, knocked down and hurt.
    Actually, that scene was added to explain why Ivanova would be in a cast for a bit, since Claudia Christian broke her foot while they were filming. So she's trying to be "diplomatic" and gets hurt as a result.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Ultron View Post
    *Fascist Earth-Again Earth ''wants to know'' what the technomages are up too, like the B5 universe does not have the Bill of Rights.
    Given that Earth now has a governing body, it doesn't. It may or may not have something similar as part of its own constitution, but we can't automatically assume that, or that it works exactly the same as ours if they do.
    My current “Fantasy Fantasy” team (5 members allowed, only 1 from a world, series must be active): Jon Snow, Percy Jackson, Harry Dresden, Minmax, Belkar Bitterleaf. Back to 1/5ths Dinosaur mounted , dang it!

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    (And yes, I know I'm playing the long odds on some of these!)

  6. - Top - End - #336
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomandtish View Post
    AGiven that Earth now has a governing body, it doesn't. It may or may not have something similar as part of its own constitution, but we can't automatically assume that, or that it works exactly the same as ours if they do.
    Plus, that was just another sign of Earth moving towards being more fascistic. Sheridan, remember, deliberately points out that it's not in the rules to spy on visitors, and the person he's talking to appeals to the needs of Earth of justify it.
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  7. - Top - End - #337
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomandtish View Post
    Actually, that scene was added to explain why Ivanova would be in a cast for a bit, since Claudia Christian broke her foot while they were filming. So she's trying to be "diplomatic" and gets hurt as a result.
    Ivanova is also just scary because of how she acts - a confident, competent officer who will tear strips off anybody who interferes with her duties or the running of Babylon 5 in general. It's never implied that they're scared of her because she's likely to punch them in the face. Heck, Ivanova probably isn't especially good at fighting. She's trained as a pilot and starship officer, not as a grunt - she likely hasn't gone through combat training since Basic. I'm sure she could hold her own but she isn't martially trained like the Rangers or experienced like Garibaldi is.

    The diplomatic bit is another part of it - I'm sure that trying NOT to punch the Drazi ambassador in the face was more in the forefront of her mind at that exact moment than anything else.

    ------

    On the Technomages, I actually prefer the lack of backstory. Knowing where they get their technology from ruins the mystique - as depicted in the show, they're yet another of the wonderful mysteries of the galaxy.

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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daimbert View Post
    So from that it's clear that they've been around for a long time, have power, have influence, and can be very, very scary.
    Except that is not what we get. We only learn that some ''republican-like'' Centari respect them and they were around at the time of the first Centari emperor. That is it.

    Now...if a single writer could have ever taken the effort to give the viewers even a vague timeline, we might know ''how long ago'' the first Centari emperor was. Sure the Centari are an ''older race'', but how old? Humans are ''close'' to the Centari, and they only got one world government and space travel like less then 300 years ago. And see, it would have been so, so, so, so easy for Londo to say ''2,000 years ago when the first emperor...."

    And there is no hit of ''power'' or ''scary'', but again Londo could have taken 30 seconds to add a nice scary story about the technomages. But...no.


    Quote Originally Posted by Daimbert View Post
    Earth wanted to know why this secret, mysterious and powerful group were suddenly arriving on Babylon 5 in force when, in general, you never saw more than one of them at any one point. The answer was "We're gathering together to leave to avoid the war", given in the episode. This is all made clear in the episode itself. Again, you are complaining that the episode didn't explain things that it specifically did explain.
    Except we only know they are a mysterious and secret group, so Earth's interest makes no sense. Again, it's like the government going after some cosplay people.

    Can you give one example from the episode of the technomages power? They do, as the episode says, ''magic tricks with technology''. That is it. Tricks...smoke and mirrors.

    The only things we see them do: holograms, more holograms, holograms, record a conversation, zap a camera, infect a computer with a ''virus deamon'' are all right at the ''common'', even Earth, level to technology. Sure you can sat they have ''custom'' stuff that is (slightly) more advanced then the normal commercially available tech...but that is not much of a ''wow''.

    So...where did you ''between the pixels'' see any of this explained?

  9. - Top - End - #339
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    PaladinGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Ultron View Post
    Except that is not what we get. We only learn that some ''republican-like'' Centari respect them and they were around at the time of the first Centari emperor. That is it.

    Now...if a single writer could have ever taken the effort to give the viewers even a vague timeline, we might know ''how long ago'' the first Centari emperor was. Sure the Centari are an ''older race'', but how old? Humans are ''close'' to the Centari, and they only got one world government and space travel like less then 300 years ago. And see, it would have been so, so, so, so easy for Londo to say ''2,000 years ago when the first emperor...."
    The Centauri Republic rose to galactic prominence and was well into its decline when they met the humans, so we can definitely presume that we're in the range of thousands of years -- at least 1000 -- which is indeed a long time for one single unaligned group. The blessing of the technomage was important to the first emperor at the time -- at least according to the Centauri -- which is why the symbolism would be important for Londo now, implying that they had and still have influence. That Earthforce knows about them and cares enough to try to find out what they're up to is another indication of that.

    And there is no hit of ''power'' or ''scary'', but again Londo could have taken 30 seconds to add a nice scary story about the technomages. But...no.
    Londo explicitly states that seeing one technomage is something to pay attention to and that seeing more than one is a bad sign. Vir, when asked to go set up an appointment with them, is clearly frightened at the prospect, and he knows all of the stories. And it's made clear that while everyone knows that they use technology to pull off their tricks, no one knows how they do that. So, yeah, a pretty good indication that they have powers beyond the usual and that what they can and do do intimidates people.

    Except we only know they are a mysterious and secret group, so Earth's interest makes no sense. Again, it's like the government going after some cosplay people.
    Where do you get this notion of them being like "cosplay people"? They clearly have abilities and technology that Earth doesn't understand. They're also a group that aren't seen very often, and are almost never seen in groups. And suddenly a group of them are coming to Babylon 5. Yeah, Earthforce is indeed going to want to know why.

    Can you give one example from the episode of the technomages power? They do, as the episode says, ''magic tricks with technology''. That is it. Tricks...smoke and mirrors.

    The only things we see them do: holograms, more holograms, holograms, record a conversation, zap a camera, infect a computer with a ''virus deamon'' are all right at the ''common'', even Earth, level to technology. Sure you can sat they have ''custom'' stuff that is (slightly) more advanced then the normal commercially available tech...but that is not much of a ''wow''.

    So...where did you ''between the pixels'' see any of this explained?
    We haven't seen holograms of the sort of complexity and with the ability to do what the technomages can do, and Vir -- from a more advanced race than humanity -- is indeed impressed by them. Londo's only options when dealing with the daemon are to apologize or try to put up with it, despite his having access to the most advanced security programs that the Centauri and Earthforce have to offer. Londo also has access to the best hidden cameras Centauri Intelligence could provide and it doesn't fool Elric for a second. And while pretty much everything they did were at the level of pranks, that's clearly because that's all they were TRYING to do. If you look at the implications of their technology, if they wanted Londo dead they could certainly have killed him, or certainly could have killed Vir. Elric makes the Gandalf threat about not angering wizards and the people who know just what they are capable of TAKE IT SERIOUSLY. All of those are pretty good indications that they have power beyond that of common Earth tech AND are people you should take seriously.

    I'm not sure what more you want. It's a valid interpretation to say that you, personally, are not impressed by their technology level and see them more as tricksters who put on a good show, and that might even be a stance that some people in universe hold, but the episode definitely provides more than enough evidence to suggest that they might well be more than that, and whether they are technological tricksters or a real threat isn't that relevant. Even if you think they shouldn't be seen as they are in-universe, they ARE seen that way, and that drives the plot of the episode. There is no reason to ask for more.

    (And we get more in Crusade.)
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  10. - Top - End - #340
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daimbert View Post
    The Centauri Republic rose to galactic prominence and was well into its decline when they met the humans, so we can definitely presume that we're in the range of thousands of years -- at least 1000 -- which is indeed a long time for one single unaligned group.
    You can ''assume and guess'', I watch the show for such details.


    Quote Originally Posted by Daimbert View Post
    Londo explicitly states that seeing one technomage is something to pay attention to and that seeing more than one is a bad sign. Vir, when asked to go set up an appointment with them, is clearly frightened at the prospect, and he knows all of the stories. And it's made clear that while everyone knows that they use technology to pull off their tricks, no one knows how they do that. So, yeah, a pretty good indication that they have powers beyond the usual and that what they can and do do intimidates people.
    Wish we, the viewers, knew even one technomage horror story. The way the episode is, it's ''the technomages are scary as we the writers say they are..haha''.

    You make a huge leap from ''they do tricks'' to ''they have powers beyond the grasp of normal man''. Penn and Teller (aka Rebo and Zooty) do magic tricks, but you would not say they have ''great power beyond anything else'' right? Someone can pull a rabbit out of a hat and they can bend time and space like play dough? Big leap on your part that has no basis in the show.


    Quote Originally Posted by Daimbert View Post
    Where do you get this notion of them being like "cosplay people"? They clearly have abilities and technology that Earth doesn't understand. They're also a group that aren't seen very often, and are almost never seen in groups. And suddenly a group of them are coming to Babylon 5. Yeah, Earthforce is indeed going to want to know why.
    The technomages are just people that dress up in silly costumes, are mysterious and use technology to do magic-like tricks. That is all the episode says about them. So by that definition they are no different then that cospaly guy traveling to comicon dressed as ''Harry Potter'' and can do magic tricks.

    When in the episode does a single character say ''the technomages have abilities and technology Earth does not understand?''


    Quote Originally Posted by Daimbert View Post
    We haven't seen holograms of the sort of complexity and with the ability to do what the technomages can do, and Vir -- from a more advanced race than humanity -- is indeed impressed by them. Londo's only options when dealing with the daemon are to apologize or try to put up with it, despite his having access to the most advanced security programs that the Centauri and Earthforce have to offer. Londo also has access to the best hidden cameras Centauri Intelligence could provide and it doesn't fool Elric for a second. And while pretty much everything they did were at the level of pranks, that's clearly because that's all they were TRYING to do. If you look at the implications of their technology, if they wanted Londo dead they could certainly have killed him, or certainly could have killed Vir. Elric makes the Gandalf threat about not angering wizards and the people who know just what they are capable of TAKE IT SERIOUSLY. All of those are pretty good indications that they have power beyond that of common Earth tech AND are people you should take seriously.
    Again, your reaching and just adding stuff at random. We have seen tons of holograms, and nothing the technomges do is so holographicaly amazing.

    You say Londo can't do anything about the ''deamon'', but ok, give me a quite from the episode where a character says that.

    You say Londo has access to the ''most advanced '' programs? Really why? But, ok, if he does give me even one quite from the show up to this point where a character says to Londo ''Here is the most super advanced program for you to use''.

    You say Londo has ''access to the best hidden cameras Centauri Intelligence could provide', ok, again where is your proof? When have we seen Londo use ''the most advanced tech Centauri Intelligance has'' ever in the show to this point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daimbert View Post
    I'm not sure what more you want. It's a valid interpretation to say that you, personally, are not impressed by their technology level and see them more as tricksters who put on a good show, and that might even be a stance that some people in universe hold, but the episode definitely provides more than enough evidence to suggest that they might well be more than that, and whether they are technological tricksters or a real threat isn't that relevant. Even if you think they shouldn't be seen as they are in-universe, they ARE seen that way, and that drives the plot of the episode. There is no reason to ask for more.

    (And we get more in Crusade.)
    I'd want a better written episode.

    So what in the episode do you see that is so great and amazing? We see the technomages use holograms, cameras to make recoding's, something that can detect and zap a camera and computer virus. So, nothing impressive. I really do wonder what you see as so impressive? In the first episode of the season Kefer gets a holo letter, so lets compare it to the Vir hologram in the glove...well lets see the Vir hologram was smaller....um, wow, not that impressive. We see the technomage has a camera to record things...well, Earth force has flying robo cameras and Londo has a little spy cam, so again that the ''technomage has a camera'' is not impressive.

    Note also no one in the episode ever says ''the technomages are a threat'' OR ''the technomages have secret advanced tech''. Your somehow saying that when Londo says ''look at technomage'' he is also saying in a subliminal message ''a strange, powerful, mysterious, unknown, master of advanced technology and dark powers and secrets''. But in the episode, he just says ''look a technomage''.

    Like most problems in Tv shows this would have been an easy fix.

    1.Have a character say something like ''the advanced tech they have''.
    2.Show a single technomage do Anything that can not be explained by the normal tech of the TV universe.
    3.Even better, combine the two with a nice story to give us an example of the technomages power and horror.

    For example: Londo-"My great grand Uncle was a warrior in the third Emperor's guard, during the Revolt of the Blue. A single technomage with the touch of his hand turned the whole of the River Vorntroi into toxic fire water and smoke that decimated the rebels. "

    Vir-''Londo, that is just a story...."

    Londo-"A story Vir? Then why, to this day seven centuries later is the low lands around the River Vorntroi one of the few undeveloped places on Centari Prime? Why to this day can no one eat and fish from that river or drink any of the water without falling ill and dying? No, Vir, there is far, far more to the technomages then just stories and tricks...they are a dark secret power to be reckoned with."

  11. - Top - End - #341
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    BlackDragon

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    Well just stop watching then. Just because you cant enjoy the show without these silly details doesnt mean we have the same standards.

    I like when a show emphasize details on what it tries to be about. This isnt "Technomages: The Series", its Babylon 5. The technomage are only relevant regarding their perceived potency and yet they fear an ever greater coming evil.

    And they see Londo's future. These elements are whats important, since this is what the show is about first and foremost.

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    PaladinGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Ultron View Post
    You can ''assume and guess'', I watch the show for such details.
    Which is precisely the problem: you are expecting the show to not only give you the required information, but to also spell it out in precise detail. Doing this makes for very boring television and a lot of "As you knows" and exposition dumps. I think this episode sets out the technomages perfectly here because it manages to avoid a lot of that by using character and government reactions to set out the important details instead of bothering to tell us all of the details. The episode doesn't need to tell us explicitly that they've been around for a long time by giving us the exact years because Londo saying that they existed and were influential at the start of the Centauri Empire -- which the show has already established as being a significant time period -- does that for us. We don't need to be told precise details of them being powerful because Earthforce, Sheridan, Londo and Vir all act as if they are, nor do we need them to do more than pranks to show that they are a threat because Londo and Vir act as if they are ... especially since in character they not only have no real reason to do more than that, they in fact have a reason to NOT look like an active threat -- even though, again, everyone believes that they are capable of it -- because if they do Sheridan might need to investigate their actions deeper or interfere with their leaving the station, which they clearly don't want to happen.

    So we don't need all of those details that you say we need, and I don't think it would make the episode any better if they were added ... and, in fact, would make it WORSE.

    Wish we, the viewers, knew even one technomage horror story. The way the episode is, it's ''the technomages are scary as we the writers say they are..haha''.
    They are as scary as the CHARACTERS say they are. What you'd be trying to argue here is that they are presented as a bigger threat but when they actually do things they are shown to be far less impressive or competent than they are. But that never happens here. While what they do isn't overwhelming, it's certainly enough to demonstrate that they have abilities above and beyond the average person on the street or most mundane threats. And since they only need to be more serious than typical, mundane threats to work, that's all they need to give us to at least be able to believe that the concerns of the characters and Earthforce might be valid.

    Or maybe not. But what they do doesn't contradict and does support that impression.

    You make a huge leap from ''they do tricks'' to ''they have powers beyond the grasp of normal man''. Penn and Teller (aka Rebo and Zooty) do magic tricks, but you would not say they have ''great power beyond anything else'' right? Someone can pull a rabbit out of a hat and they can bend time and space like play dough? Big leap on your part that has no basis in the show.
    If they were on the level of Rebo and Zooty, Earthforce wouldn't care about their presence on the station, their blessing would have been meaningless, and Londo would not have taken the presence of multiple technomages as a bad omen. So the episode is indeed clear that that's the case. Given that, we don't need them to explicitly demonstrate that to believe that they are. Again, I'm not sure why you think we need more.

    When in the episode does a single character say ''the technomages have abilities and technology Earth does not understand?''
    I'd have to rewatch it, but I'm pretty sure that it is strongly implied if not outright stated in the discussions between Sheridan and the Senator that one of the reasons Earthforce is worried about the technomages is that they don't know HOW they do the things they do.

    Again, your reaching and just adding stuff at random. We have seen tons of holograms, and nothing the technomges do is so holographicaly amazing.
    As you say below, we can compare it to the message from Kefler's girlfriend. They are much larger, much more detailed, and actually can physically interact with the world (if they didn't show it directly, I don't think Kefler could have touched that image). There's good reason to think that they are more impressive than the average hologram.

    You say Londo can't do anything about the ''deamon'', but ok, give me a quite from the episode where a character says that.
    If Londo could have done something about it, he would have done that instead of apologizing. His options are presented as live with it or apologize, and he eventually apologizes.

    You say Londo has access to the ''most advanced '' programs? Really why? But, ok, if he does give me even one quite from the show up to this point where a character says to Londo ''Here is the most super advanced program for you to use''.

    You say Londo has ''access to the best hidden cameras Centauri Intelligence could provide', ok, again where is your proof? When have we seen Londo use ''the most advanced tech Centauri Intelligance has'' ever in the show to this point?
    Londo is the ambassador to Babylon 5, and so handles very sensitive information. He also has, on his own, a large number of private security resources, as evidenced in the episode where they try to steal his "Purple Files". While being the ambassador of Babylon 5 was seen as a joke originally, at this point as events in the galaxy heat up it is becoming more prominent AND Londo is starting to gain a lot of influence due to what the Shadows have done for him, which is indeed why he wanted their blessing because at this point he can see himself on a path TO BECOMING EMPEROR. He should be able to get a really good, undetectable spy camera, and he clearly thinks that it shouldn't have been detected ... and Elric detects it pretty much immediately, and uses that to trap Londo AND use that to influence Sheridan.

    I'd want a better written episode.
    There's nothing wrong with how it's written. You are nitpicking over details that, if added, wouldn't make it better.

    So what in the episode do you see that is so great and amazing? We see the technomages use holograms, cameras to make recoding's, something that can detect and zap a camera and computer virus. So, nothing impressive. I really do wonder what you see as so impressive? In the first episode of the season Kefer gets a holo letter, so lets compare it to the Vir hologram in the glove...well lets see the Vir hologram was smaller....um, wow, not that impressive. We see the technomage has a camera to record things...well, Earth force has flying robo cameras and Londo has a little spy cam, so again that the ''technomage has a camera'' is not impressive.
    So the massive monster filling the hall with light and sound that Vir had to scream to be heard over was SMALLER than Keffer's? Really? One of us is remembering these episodes incorrectly ...

    Note also no one in the episode ever says ''the technomages are a threat'' OR ''the technomages have secret advanced tech''. Your somehow saying that when Londo says ''look at technomage'' he is also saying in a subliminal message ''a strange, powerful, mysterious, unknown, master of advanced technology and dark powers and secrets''. But in the episode, he just says ''look a technomage''.
    He says that there's a technomage, and it's a bad omen to see more than one at a time. Earthforce wants to know what they are up to because they have abilities and aren't normally seen together. Elric deliberately invokes Gandalf and no one blinks at the comparison. Vir is scared out of his wits to even go talk to them. Londo getting their blessing would be a big boon towards his becoming Emperor. They so mess with Londo that he has no choice but to apologize. And, as I said, it's clear from what they did that they could have killed either Vir or Londo if they wanted to (and you never answered why I'd be wrong about that).

    How much of a threat do you want them to be? They aren't supposed to be little gods, but they are enough that if you, say, sent a security guard to arrest them it's not likely to actually work, for various reasons from little tricks to them being able to kill them. And all of this is established: their technology and tricks are mysterious and things that they ought not have known or been able to do. For example, while the orange blossom wasn't all that impressive on its own this semi-random technomage KNOWING what that meant to Sheridan was the point there, hinted at with the discussion of all the things they know.

    The knowledge is more impressive than the specific technological abilities, even to the technomages, and the technical abilities from just one of them are impressive considering, again, that those are easily accessible by one individual.

    3.Even better, combine the two with a nice story to give us an example of the technomages power and horror.

    For example: Londo-"My great grand Uncle was a warrior in the third Emperor's guard, during the Revolt of the Blue. A single technomage with the touch of his hand turned the whole of the River Vorntroi into toxic fire water and smoke that decimated the rebels. "

    Vir-''Londo, that is just a story...."

    Londo-"A story Vir? Then why, to this day seven centuries later is the low lands around the River Vorntroi one of the few undeveloped places on Centari Prime? Why to this day can no one eat and fish from that river or drink any of the water without falling ill and dying? No, Vir, there is far, far more to the technomages then just stories and tricks...they are a dark secret power to be reckoned with."
    You realize that doing that IS within the reach of the existing technology in the universe, right, especially with them being tricksters? This wouldn't do what you wanted it to do and, again, I don't think it's necessary.
    BSG PBF record on BGG: 10 - 14.

    "For a nice guy, you're kind of a jerk" - Ayane, P4: The Animation

    "Stop saving the world and get a hobby" - Seto Kaiba

  13. - Top - End - #343
    Titan in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
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    Default Re: Babylon 5 Group Re-Watch!

    If you want confirmation that yes, the Technomages are as powerful as all that: there's an episode of Crusade (yes, I did watch some of those) where, in order to trick an Earthforce captain into letting him destroy a mine, Captain Gideon shows him a technomage doing some wibbly wobbly down on the planet below and says something along the lines of, "They have powers beyond anything we know, he could shoot your ship right out of the sky". The Earthforce captain believes this, which he would have no reason to if the Technomages didn't have a certain reputation. (Also note that the Technomage in question survives a direct hit on the location he's at by the Excalibur's main weapon, which means either he does have some pretty awesome power or he's capable of creating an illusion so realistic that it's believed even with the sensor capabilities of an Earthforce destroyer probing it).

  14. - Top - End - #344
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Babylon 5 Group Re-Watch!

    I don't really like that part of the example because here that kind of planet-shaking power isn't what's being hinted at. There's a direct reference to Gandalf and that's really how they're supposed to be taken: subtle beings relying more on their knowledge but with some teeth behind it if they need it. So what the technomage does to stop the mining is more in line with what the technomages are about than that move.

    But, yes, it's more likely that the technomage created that convincing an illusion, since he had already done it with his dragon, and Galen also creates an utterly unconvincingly drawn and acted illusion of himself that fools an alien probe into thinking that it's a real person so that it will take it away for dissection.

    "Oh, look, there goes my liver! I'd wondered where that had gotten to."

    As for Crusade, I own the DVD of the entire series and have watched it repeatedly, and my opinion is that any episode that Galen is in is a good one, and the others are ... meh, at best.
    BSG PBF record on BGG: 10 - 14.

    "For a nice guy, you're kind of a jerk" - Ayane, P4: The Animation

    "Stop saving the world and get a hobby" - Seto Kaiba

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