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  1. - Top - End - #211
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Doctor Who - Series 10

    The fiftieth anniversary ended with Galifrey saved "somewhere" in a pocket universe outside of time and space - but the doctor not knowing where. 11's final episodes suggested that time lords could still connect to the main universe through cracks left over from Big Bang 2, but I don't remember them being able to get out.

    I could be forgetting something, buts that's how I remembered things going. Obviously the master eventually go out (otherwise Missy wouldn't be there).

  2. - Top - End - #212
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Doctor Who - Series 10

    From what I see so fat, in regards to canon and continuity issues, the fans care more about it than the creators.

    It's not like the authors don't care at all, they usually try the best they can to write a story, but they sometimes prefer to put the focus on the story itself over the background, trusting the fans to fill the gaps and crate patches for new issues.

    I also think that's the correct approach, as long as they don't break continuity from just an episode or two ago.

  3. - Top - End - #213
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    Default Re: Doctor Who - Series 10

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    If it was me I'd reveal that black hole is actually the Eye of Harmony the source of Gallifreyan power and Gallifrey is hidden inside.
    So the Master escaped by transmitting aboard that ship before they reversed course after realising they were heading towards a black hole.
    Stuck aboard naturally he modified the distress beacon so it would draw the only person with a working TARDIS!
    What I'm more wondering about did he have help and are the Cybus Cybermen behind Project Exodus with those missing colonists having found another part of the ship to restart their lives free of being upgraded?
    Last edited by Hopeless; 2017-06-26 at 04:21 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #214
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    Default Re: Doctor Who - Series 10

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopeless View Post
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    If it was me I'd reveal that black hole is actually the Eye of Harmony the source of Gallifreyan power and Gallifrey is hidden inside.
    Wouldn't the Doctor recognize the place, since so much of his identity and Timey-wimey sensory perception is tied to that place?
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    the Badass Monkby Avi. Aktarus by Chd. Dehro by Wojiz


  5. - Top - End - #215
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    Default Re: Doctor Who - Series 10

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperPanda View Post

    I really liked it. I hated that they got the science part backwards as it really would have been pretty easy to flip the ship around with the engines burning towards the black hole (thus thrusting away from it) and find a different visual tell for the crew on the bridge to see - Thus allowing the science part to be the right-way round. Still its impressive for NuWho that they got as close as they did to actual time-dilation science. Its miles closer to actual science than "Kill the Moon"
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    Wrong way round? Higher gravity slows time, via special relativity. Near end closer, higher gravity, slower time.

  6. - Top - End - #216
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Doctor Who - Series 10

    Thanks for helping me out there - I did done goof on that bit. :)

  7. - Top - End - #217
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    Default Re: Doctor Who - Series 10

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperPanda View Post
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    The Master's Disguise: They actually explained that one in the episode. The Master said he needed a disguise because he was "someone's former prime minister" - which means that this took place after "Last of the Time Lords" in which he died which means it also took place after being sent back into the Time War when he briefly turned hero at the end of Tennant's run. This allows them to remove the drum beat plot line which is a shame because it would have been amazing to have as a running thing within his disguise, and it also over-writes Sim's Master's characterization in the christmas special (which to be fair wasn't all that strong).

    The Master implied that he put on his disguise in order to get close to Bill to find out more about what was happening with Missy and then to betray Bill so that the Doctor could never forgive him/missy.
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    If we go with that, at some point in the next episode we'll see Simm's Master regenerate into Missy. A double regeneration would make for a good finale. To be a real doozy, since they have kept the new Doctor actor a secret, the Doctor could regenerate into Michelle Gomez or John Simm!

    Personally I'd like it to be Howard Cooke, but he's long since left acting.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34m3LFCYwQk

    Last edited by Pex; 2017-06-27 at 01:35 AM.
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  8. - Top - End - #218
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    Default Re: Doctor Who - Series 10

    Quote Originally Posted by dehro View Post
    Wouldn't the Doctor recognize the place, since so much of his identity and Timey-wimey sensory perception is tied to that place?
    Would he recognise one specific black hole as the same one his people use as their power source?
    Unlikely,
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    now if Missy had been chatting directly to the Doctor when she mentioned Mondas that might have created more of a reaction!😉
    Last edited by Hopeless; 2017-06-27 at 06:41 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #219
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    Default Re: Doctor Who - Series 10

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopeless View Post
    Would he recognise one specific black hole as the same one his people use as their power source?
    Unlikely,
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    now if Missy had been chatting directly to the Doctor when she mentioned Mondas that might have created more of a reaction!😉
    The way I understood it was staring at that that particular one exposes a timelord to the entirety of time and space, or something to that effect. I was under the impression that only that one particular place would do this.... so.. still not convinced.
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    Cursed zombies are more realistic.
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  10. - Top - End - #220
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    Default Re: Doctor Who - Series 10

    What almost ruined the episode for me was the too obvious misspelling of "theater" that kept appearing.
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  11. - Top - End - #221
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    Default Re: Doctor Who - Series 10

    Quote Originally Posted by Pex View Post
    What almost ruined the episode for me was the too obvious misspelling of "theater" that kept appearing.
    Theatre is the English spelling.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_theater alternates languages even in the same sentence.
    While https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theater redirects to the English spelling.

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    Default Re: Doctor Who - Series 10

    Having now watched "World Enough and Time": I'm normally all in favor of continuity wankery, but somehow Moffat manages to make it lame.

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    Default Re: Doctor Who - Series 10

    Quote Originally Posted by jayem View Post
    Theatre is the English spelling.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_theater alternates languages even in the same sentence.
    While https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theater redirects to the English spelling.
    Blue text is used to denote sarcasm in these parts
    "Three blokes walk into a pub. One of them is a little bit stupid, and the whole scene unfolds with a tedious inevitability." - Bill Bailey
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  14. - Top - End - #224
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    Default Re: Doctor Who - Series 10

    Quote Originally Posted by jayem View Post
    Theatre is the English spelling.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_theater alternates languages even in the same sentence.
    While https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theater redirects to the English spelling.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOP-2ulq2bk
    Quote Originally Posted by OvisCaedo View Post
    Rules existing are a dire threat to the divine power of the DM.

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    Default Re: Doctor Who - Series 10

    Quote Originally Posted by random11 View Post
    From what I see so fat
    Why you gotta bodyshame, man?

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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Doctor Who - Series 10

    OK, I watched both episodes of the two-parter today. First part quite interesting. Thoughts on the second part:

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    I got thrown out of the story due to the inconsistency in the time dilation. The Master and Bill both said that they spent ten years waiting for the Doctor to turn up, and we know that in that time, up on the bridge, he was able to explain the entire situation to his companions--so, maybe one or two minutes? And those are the points at the extreme ends of the ship, let's not forget. Yet, in this episode the Doctor claims that going from only halfway along the ship back up to the bridge will take thousands of years, and the time difference between there and the bottom is sufficient for an entirely new generation of Cybermen to be created in only two weeks? Not buying either of those things.

    However, the ending was rather interesting, with him meeting the original Doctor (here played by David Bradley, as he was in the special about the creation of Doctor Who--"An Adventure in Space and Time" back in 2013). Both Doctors saying they don't want to change, which suggests this is where the First Doctor regenerated--apparently that happened after a fight with the Cybermen at an Antarctic research base in the serial "The Tenth Planet", so the setting certainly fits. Going to be interesting to see where the Christmas special takes that--and, of course, who Capaldi eventually regenerates into!
    Last edited by factotum; 2017-07-01 at 01:51 PM.

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    Default Re: Doctor Who - Series 10

    So apparently they started "The Doctor Falls" somewhat earlier than usual, so I missed how they got from the Cybermen level to this random-ass farm community, which has left me not very invested in this episode, and especially not invested in these humans the Doctor keeps insisting on sacrificing himself for.

    Which brings to mind the question: Is it just me, or is this Doctor a fair bit more fatalistic (either in general or this season in particular) than usual? At least two or three episodes this year he's just up and given up on getting out alive in situations that previous incarnations would have just "I'm clever"ed their way out of.

  18. - Top - End - #228
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    A few thoughts about Episode 12.

    First thing. I loved it absolute enjoyed it. They kind of spoiled the whole "The Doctor's Dead" bit with the little teaser at the beginning of the previous episode. Without that...There may have been a shred of doubt about what was going to happen.

    I enjoyed the Missy/Master dynamic. While the ending was indeed poetic. I felt like it was a bit 'shennanigans'. Really? The Master's Laser Screwdriver can prevent regeneration at max power? That seems a bit silly. Especially considering we get a scene earlier on in the same episode where they discuss how to kill the doctor in "fun" ways. Simms Master isn't one to just take the easy route and straight up kill someone...even The Doctor. On top of that in the end of the previous episode even saying "You would never be so...Self Destructive, but then again. Neither would I". Granted, as I mentioned in my comment about the previous episode. Simm's Master would rather die than help The Doctor. We've seen it before and we saw it here.

    With that said...I don't believe The Master is gone for good. However, they made quite the effort to make us believe that they are. Also I'm going to miss Simm. His Master excellent.

    As for the ending(the whole bit, not just the last part). I liked that they used the music from the end of Heaven Sent while The Doctor was off blowing up cybermen. Also the fact that they basically killed Bill means that Moffat has basically killed off two companions. Clara and Bill. three if you really want to count Amy(who just got stuck in the past and lived a happy life with Rory so i don't) I really didn't expect that to be so soon. I didn't think that companion deaths. Literal or metaphorical were supposed to happen very often.

    Also can everyone drive the TARDIS now? I know what was said "I'm The Pilot. I can drive anything", but they've really cheapened the qualifications for flying that thing.

    My reaction to the ending was essentially "Ha ha. They did it. The crazy bastards did it." My parents were also watching, but sadly don't know what I was talking about. So I had to explain the whole thing. However, this is something that I've been sort of hoping for since I watched Adventures in Time and Space.


    Also can I just say that I hate this trend that started with End of Time and continuing with The 11th Doctor of not regenerating until the end of the Christmas Special. I know it's a contractual thing. However, I'm really tired of waiting half a year for the new Doctor and then another half a year to see him in action.
    Last edited by Leecros; 2017-07-01 at 10:08 PM.
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    teleporting Hyper Nixon solves problems with Patriotism.

  19. - Top - End - #229
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    GreataxeFighterGuy

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    Default Re: Doctor Who - Series 10

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    OK, I watched both episodes of the two-parter today. First part quite interesting. Thoughts on the second part:

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    I got thrown out of the story due to the inconsistency in the time dilation. The Master and Bill both said that they spent ten years waiting for the Doctor to turn up, and we know that in that time, up on the bridge, he was able to explain the entire situation to his companions--so, maybe one or two minutes? And those are the points at the extreme ends of the ship, let's not forget. Yet, in this episode the Doctor claims that going from only halfway along the ship back up to the bridge will take thousands of years, and the time difference between there and the bottom is sufficient for an entirely new generation of Cybermen to be created in only two weeks? Not buying either of those things.

    However, the ending was rather interesting, with him meeting the original Doctor (here played by David Bradley, as he was in the special about the creation of Doctor Who--"An Adventure in Space and Time" back in 2013). Both Doctors saying they don't want to change, which suggests this is where the First Doctor regenerated--apparently that happened after a fight with the Cybermen at an Antarctic research base in the serial "The Tenth Planet", so the setting certainly fits. Going to be interesting to see where the Christmas special takes that--and, of course, who Capaldi eventually regenerates into!
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    I think they actually got the time dilation right, or close to it. Yes, 10 minute or however long it was at the top of the ship was 10 years at the bottom, but that was from the perspective of observers who weren't moving through levels. Moving through levels makes it much more complicated. The thing is, if you're taking the lift down, it moves faster the further you travel, because it's going to areas where the time dilation effect is less. But going up, as you move, the lift goes slower, because it's moving to areas where time is moving slower. And that's all from the perception of an observer not on the lift (such as the cybermen at the bottom of the ship). From the perspective of someone on the lift, it travels at a constant speed. Well, I suppose it might accelerate or decelerate at times, but that would be just the normal operation of the lift, not a relativistic affect.

    I liked this episode a lot. About the only part I didn't like was the SimmsMaster shooting Missy. Of course, this is the Master we're dealing with--despite him saying she can't regenerate, you know the Master isn't being killed off for real. Whether or not the next time we see the Master, he'll still be Michelle Gomez's Missy or not is a completely different question.

    What I see there is Moffat leaving the options open for the new show-runner. If he wants Missy back, he can bring her back and handwave it (it's been done before), or he can cast someone else in the part. It's not the only option that's been left open. We know that we're going to have a multi-Doctor story for the Christmas special, but we still don't know who the next Doctor will be (and if someone does know, please don't spoil it!) Actually, I'm still not 100% convinced that Capaldi is leaving; his announced departure might be a ruse. Now, I'm sure that technically, contracts were signed before this episode even started filming, but contracts can be bought out, so in theory the new show-runner can have Capaldi regenerate into anyone.

    And Bill's fate is left up in the air too, so Chibnall can decide if he wants her back or not (and when to bring her back, if he does so at all. Nardole is left stuck on the ship, so he may or may not be back, too. Again, I'm sure that contractually all this has been worked out well in advance, but narratively at least, it gives the new team a lot of leeway to do what they want.

  20. - Top - End - #230
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Doctor Who - Series 10

    OK, if it's true about the time dilation:

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    How did the proto-Cybermen who "rescued" Bill from the bridge manage to get up there without falling to pieces, if it took them thousands of years? Also, I'm pretty sure that a small amount of acceleration isn't going to change the equations significantly enough that what was ten years in one direction becomes thousands in the other.

  21. - Top - End - #231
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    As I understand it time operates normally at the rear end of the colony ship.
    Once aboard that lift time for them slows down the closer they get to the bridge with the ship slowly moving away from the black hole.

    So aging isn't a factor until they're returning I'd assume the lift would need some kind of suspended animation field to protect them from the time dilation.

    Can someone explain where the Pete's World Cybermen came from?

  22. - Top - End - #232
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    Honestly, Simms didn't feel like he was playing his version of the Master to me. He didn't have any of the tics the Saxon-incarnation had previously had, like the drumming, and he felt very... restrained?

    Now, that might in part be because of how the show has changed tones. Tenants run was rather 'camp', in that personalities were big abd broad, the sets were colourful, etcetera. By contrast, Capauldi is a lot darker, streamed down and cinematic. I'm not passing judgement on which is better, simply that there is a difference.

    And I can see the argument here, that the more over the top Master Simm's played fit the tone for the Ten era, but he would seem awkward or out of place in the Twelve episodes. But...

    But that stuff was a big part of the Sixth Master, as opposed to the rpevious versions. That pop culture trash, that giddiness, that blatantly over the top absurdity, as opposed to "only" being a mad genius... and I felt like a lot of that was stripped down for his appearances here. It felt more like Simms was playing a "classic" incarnation of the Master, rather than his version of the Master.
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  23. - Top - End - #233
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    Default Re: Doctor Who - Series 10

    Spoiler: Cybus Cybermen - Pete's World -
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    The Cybus Cybermen were a parallel universe evolution of the concept. On a parallel earth with a vaguely steam-punk aesthetic a very rich man was attempting to find a way to overcome death. He was dying of a variety of problems, but mostly from old age. He some how discovered a way to keep a living brain alive within a metal exoskeleton and interface the robotic body with existing human nervous system. There was a component in the chest-piece (not the head piece) which nullified emotions.

    The Cybermen invasion began as his attempt to take over the world government to impose his "generosity" of ever lasting life upon his world.
    Once he himself was converted and his emotions were removed the goal became instead to convert all life into its superior form - Cyber life.


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    I can see more than a few reasons why Sim's Master might be more low-key at this point. He still had a few moments of his old self with that grin and such. He was freshly regenerated and specifically went for a "young" self that time. I do think it could have worked with him being a bit more like his old self though. This season Capaldi has been a lot less camp, but last season he was pretty darn campy. This episode was far mroe about Bill though and Sims really was more of a foot-note than anything else beyond the cliffhanger of part 1 and tying up loose ends with Missy in part 2.

    I think I really would have preferred a different twist with the Master. Idea 1) Missy couldn't remember being Sims because she regenerates into him. He figures out who she is but doesn't realize its his, nor her, memory which was affected by the timey-wimey of them being in the same place. Play most everything else the same but tweak the dialogue - she goes to steal his Tardis and leave him behind because she's having an internal crisis about the Doctor - gets shot. In the elevator she starts to regenerate and in the flash of like we hear Derek Jacobi's voice (Professor Yana)... Sims is left on the ship to somehow find a way out (The Master always does).

    Idea 2) - and what I really wanted - Missy's character arc actually goes somewhere. The Doctor is out of ideas and ready to let himself die "being good" and Missy stroke's Sim's ego. Together they wind up saving the day through something incredibly cruel like getting Bill to let them use her hardware to hack the other cybermen and take Timelords back off the menu - knowing that doing that would cause her to loose the last of her humanity. The Doctor refuses to forgive Missy - Bill still gets her afterlife with the Pilot though the Doctor doesn't know about it - ... eh I don't know.

    I loved the episode over all. Sim's Master was my introduction to the character and he sure felt a lot less camp than last season's Missy was (or maybe the same amount of Camp but just a better fit for the overall tone at the time). This season's Missy was interestingly done until pretty much all of her character development was thrown out the window by seeing her old self. I really think a two Masters episode could have been much much better even if this one was good. Sims just seemed so useless in this one compared to the season 3 finale where he had so many back-ups. I was hyped for his return all season and ultimately feel let down despite a good performance by the actor and a great episode.

  24. - Top - End - #234
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Doctor Who - Series 10

    Didn't the Doctor explain at one point why the Master might not be quite the same?

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    He said to him that he'd been cured while on Gallifrey, which seems reasonable.

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    Regarding factotum and dilation times (ignoring movement)

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    I think there's got to be slightly limited expectations for consistency, it's a serial not a film (and the fact, that as mentioned and I think I agree, that it's backwards suggests that it's more likely incompetence than design).

    With that in mind, and making at least the assumption that the lifts work normally in their own reference frame. And ignoring the effect of movement.

    We have the first time dilation. Between the two clocks. This technically started a long time back, and the rate at which they diverge depends on the position with respect to the black hole, even before additional accel effects.

    Then we have the time dilation by the crew, they spend a few seconds of their time (which corresponds to less time by bridge, more time by engines) in each time zone, getting to the engines. Then they build a civilisation, encounter the master and start to, in the time it takes the ship to change speed by bridge time. Note for at least some of the period the tidal time dilation effect is much stronger, the ship was nearer the black hole.

    We have unseen, the Mondasians detecting human on the bridge, and start sending a team up (which takes negligible time bridge time). Capture human then descend (which takes ages engine time).
    We then have the Dr work out what's going on, and start his descent. The two descents cancel, anyhow. In engine time this is 10 years. Assuming this is 10 minutes we have a ratio of times of 525,000 between the two clocks.
    We don't know the state of the middle landing. Assuming things are vaguely geometric then the time ratios are about 1/700. I.E 1 minute is about 10 hours. 1 day about 2 months. Up or down. I've found the equation (for static situations, I might have a play).

    The journey up their is pretty fast from the master and co's pov. It will be slower at the end in engine time.

    They then stay two weeks, (a few minutes bridge time, 2 years engine time). During this time the cyber men develop (to produce newhu cybermen for assault, nb there are original cybermen there too, so that it's more like the time to build the atom bomb, rather than come through the renaissance) and ascend.

    They then talk about ascending, the Dr says this will take 1000's of years engine time (in practice we know the ascent cancels, as the cybermen must use the lift too).
    The time getting to the lifts (hours) if going to be only weeks engine time. So to get a millenia to plan that means they need to spend 1000 minutes (a day), sorting things out at the bridge.
    Which isn't that unrealistic, if they had stuff to do there. However they don't suggest committing to that time (and of course his plan doesn't sort anything else out either).

    The double lift journey, is a good hour (fields time), assuming pretty quick disembarking. So definitely limited chance for repeat trips (and if they have to call it from the bottom, it will take ages before they begin, and contain a cyberman.


    Regarding hopeless
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    It's not a Pete's world cyberman. It's a more agressive Mondasian black hole ship cyberman (than the surgeons).
    Convergent evolution/design.
    He made a big rant about it, and cybermen in general, so it makes sense to apply in this specific case.


    Another problem.
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    I make it that the time dilation between two points (for sufficiently big black holes). Is that x/r=t2-1
    With x being the distance between the two points, r being the distance of the first from the schwarz radius, and t being the relative speed of the two clocks.

    (which if I'm right here makes the time differences above completely wrong), but also means the ship is almost touching the black hole, which isn't what I was expecting.
    Last edited by jayem; 2017-07-02 at 11:32 AM.

  26. - Top - End - #236
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    Default Re: Doctor Who - Series 10

    Other things bugging me:
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    Isn't the Doctor blowing up all his enemies a bit off-brand (for any incarnation that isn't the War Doctor)? Especially considering Cybermen are pretty much innocent people inside?

    I'm not sure whether I feel like star-girl's sudden appearance is a deus ex machina or the firing of a Chekhov's gun. Her unforeshadowed ability to reconstitute a person into something human-esque is definitely deus ex machina, though.

    Didn't we already do the whole "Companion and another girl leave the show by going off to have adventures in space and time on their own" deal?

    The whole deal with the Masters felt tacked onto the episode and didn't actually affect the plot in any way. I suppose the A-plot/B-plot thing where the two plots are unrelated and don't overlap is standard for television, but more for ensemble shows like Star Trek, very not standard for Doctor Who.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Leecros View Post
    Also the fact that they basically killed Bill means that Moffat has basically killed off two companions. Clara and Bill. three if you really want to count Amy(who just got stuck in the past and lived a happy life with Rory so i don't) I really didn't expect that to be so soon. I didn't think that companion deaths. Literal or metaphorical were supposed to happen very often.
    Moffat has somehow acquired a GRRM/Whedon-esque reputation for suddenly killing off beloved characters, but who's he actually killed? The Doctor, Bill, Clara, and River are all still alive after their deaths, Amy and Rory died of old age, and if you expect the Master not to come back then... well, I disagree with your expectations. Moffat's reputation as a killer is undeserved -- his reputation should instead be for cop-out "deaths" that don't actually leave the characters dead.

    Donna and Martha only got a season or so each, yes? It's just Rose, Amy/Rory, and Clara that have had more than one season. Bill leaving after only one season isn't out of line with recent history.
    Last edited by Malimar; 2017-07-02 at 11:58 AM.

  27. - Top - End - #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopeless View Post
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    As I understand it time operates normally at the rear end of the colony ship.
    Once aboard that lift time for them slows down the closer they get to the bridge with the ship slowly moving away from the black hole.

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    For an observer on the lift, time passes normally, and the lifts operate at their normal speed, taking however long they would normally take to travel the length of the ship without the presence of the black hole, so aging wouldn't be a factor. (It's implied that the lifts move super fast.) It's observers outside the lifts that would see the effects of the time dilation. I think it is a bit of an error/plot hole that taking it didn't take them long (from the POV of anyone at the bottom of the ship) to send a team to get Bill from the top.

    When I said early that they got the time dilation correct, I was talking in broad strokes--time moves slower at the front of the ship (nearer to the black hole), etc. Some of the details are almost certainly wrong. The math gets really complicated; among other things, it depends on the mass of the black hole, the distance of the front of the ship from the event horizon, how fast the engines are moving the ship away from the black hole (if they are actually managing to do so--it's not clear that they are powerful enough to do the job), the "normal" operating speed of the lifts, and probably a few other things. We don't have any of that information, and frankly I'm not sure anyone who isn't a astrophysicist could do the calculations even with all the data.


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    Oh, and on Moffat and killing off companions--the thing here is, as with many other things, Moffat hits the reset button a lot.
    Last edited by dps; 2017-07-02 at 12:16 PM.

  28. - Top - End - #238
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    Default Re: Doctor Who - Series 10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malimar View Post
    Other things bugging me: Isn't the Doctor blowing up all his enemies a bit off-brand (for any incarnation that isn't the War Doctor)? Especially considering Cybermen are pretty much innocent people inside?
    While if felt a bit off, it's not the first time the Doctor fights or kills when he has to.
    The problem I had with this, is that it was played as a selling point that he has the advantage over the Masters when it comes to beating the odds.
    That might be true in various ways to solve problems, but I don't think the Doctor has any advantage over the Masters when it comes to blowing sh1t up.

    An different problem I had is related to something that bothered me most of the season.
    Perhaps if instead of teasing us with the regeneration, there was a buildup during the season about why he doesn't want to change again, the final moment in the episode would have felt more dramatic.
    Instead, for me it feels like it comes out of nowhere. Especially when the Doctor himself mentioned the regeneration process a couple of times in the season and didn't seem too bothered about it.

    Other than that I think the episode was okay, but not a lot more than that.

    I don't believe the Master is gone, especially not after he was gone at least twice in the new-who. There is always the excuse that he meets the Doctor before this point, or just force regenerate BS.
    Same applies for the Daleks, same applies for the Cybermen. No matter how many times they will be wiped out, there will always be an excuse to bring them back.

    Looking back at the entire season, for me it felt like the writers were more focused on winking to the fans by bringing references to older doctors than writing actual good episodes that can stand on their own.


  29. - Top - End - #239
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    Default Re: Doctor Who - Series 10

    While this was not a good episode, it was a significant improvement over all the season finales of nuWho. Nary a multiverse-ending problem in sight, just a tiny little ship out in the vastness of space. So while that was good, most other things were bad. A small selection:

    - inconsistent time dilation
    - Master and Missy (at least these versions are probably gone for good)
    - Cybus cybermen instead of something better. They started off well with the originals but they should have stuck with later versions of the Mondasians
    - the generally low-tech interior of the ark ship
    - having really explodey stuff right under food production, but somehow managing to only make tiny little bits go off at one time with no noticeable side-effects


    As for the good, Capaldi, as always, plays the part excellently and really is wasted on the stuff he's been given.

    I'm undecided on how good an idea it was to tease D1 in here. Not that I'm not a big fan of Hartnell's original (which they had to shove in our faces twice during the episode), and we may finally get to see what happened to Susan in the Christmas special, but I'm leery of Moffat's ability to do the concept justice.
    Speculation time;:Probably we'll get an episode where Capaldi's Doctor moans a little more about not wanting to go (which he did far more sympathetically than Tennant's whinefest) then learns to accept his fate after talking to D1 and re-witnessing the first regeneration from the outside. Heck, it may all be in his head.

  30. - Top - End - #240
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    For me the Doctor blowing up the Cybermen didn't feel off, he does that all the time. Though the fact he didn't have any other, cleverer aspects to the plan... well, I suppose that makes a certain amount more sense if he wasn't intending to survive, but that's the part which did bother me.

    Quote Originally Posted by random11 View Post
    A different problem I had is related to something that bothered me most of the season.
    Perhaps if instead of teasing us with the regeneration, there was a buildup during the season about why he doesn't want to change again, the final moment in the episode would have felt more dramatic.
    Instead, for me it feels like it comes out of nowhere. Especially when the Doctor himself mentioned the regeneration process a couple of times in the season and didn't seem too bothered about it.
    Yeah. It felt out of nowhere, since the first indication of him specifically not wanting to change was when he was already approaching death at the hands (well, head-laser) of a Cyberman. Especially since it feels like a return to what we had with Ten, despite Eleven describing the extra regeneration without changing (via spare hand) as "vanity issues", so we really wouldn't expect to see it again. Of course, that comparison could have been avoided if the impression was less that Twelve didn't want to change and more that he felt he'd lived long enough and was ready to die permanently - that would be a different sort of thing.
    And it wouldn't necessarily be entirely out of place. What we have had brought up at least a bit in this series and even earlier is the Doctor's unwillingness to kill Missy, because at one time she was his best friend - expanded in this series and particularly the first half of the finale into a significant desire to bring her round to the virtuous side of things, so they could be friends again and she could stand with him. A fairly desperate hope for a highly unlikely outcome, but the Doctor's hardly a stranger to lost causes. But that particular instance of losing hope when she rejected him and went off with her past self could have been played as the reason the Doctor finally felt that maybe enough was enough and he was ready to die. That would also give the "two Masters" subplot more relevance to the main plot.

    Sidenote: I really wish the first half of the finale hadn't opened with that shot of the Doctor stumbling out of the TARDIS with regeneration energy on his hands, because it was completely irrelevant at that point and if anything detracted from an episode which was primarily about Bill. It could have been reinserted at the start of this episode (which was more Doctor-focused) or left out entirely and I think the finale overall would've been improved imo.

    Things I really did like: The Doctor's speech to the Master and Missy about why he does what he does. A general trend with Capaldi's Doctor has been introspection, really examining why the Doctor does what he does, the way he does, and the speech seemed a decent fit for a virtuous lifetime career time traveller - everyone he meets is in a way already dead to him (or not born yet); but then in the same way, so is he. And taking that view, all that matters is how he acts in the interim, that defines who he is, and he defines himself as the Doctor.
    And the ending. Obviously the TARDIS wasn't going to let the Doctor just give up and die, so she'd bring him somewhere important. And David Bradley does a very good William Hartnell.
    "'But there's still such a lot to be done...'
    YES. THERE ALWAYS IS."

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