Mass Effect Andromeda II: Stay Strong and Clear!

[LibraryOgre]

What's more, their ability to propel metal bits at high velocity can be interfered with by hacking. If I can sabotage a gun to keep it from going off, why not a grenade?

I could see great utility in grenades being simply physical... wouldn't work with some of the special grenades, certainly, but a two-step trigger (to prevent them from being easily activated by biotics) and physical grenades could be a good back-up when engineers shut down your weapons.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I'd say slightly, but not totally. Bioware Edmonton is probably not gonna get to lead development on a title again, and it'll probably be another four or five years before the brand gets rolled out again. But it was gonna be a fair number of years until the next game anyway, and really, given the large number of issues that Andromeda has, taking a while to consider how best to proceed with it makes a lot of sense.

That's just it, though. From what I'm hearing, the remainder of the team still working on Andromeda itself will be exclusively focused on game patches and the multiplayer, making it sound like any DLC that could resolve Andromeda's many, MANY cliffhangers have been abandoned. THAT'S what I'm worried about. If Mass Effect IS going to die as a franchise, I don't want it to end on a cliffhanger!

[Psyren]

That's just it, though. From what I'm hearing, the remainder of the team still working on Andromeda itself will be exclusively focused on game patches and the multiplayer, making it sound like any DLC that could resolve Andromeda's many, MANY cliffhangers have been abandoned. THAT'S what I'm worried about. If Mass Effect IS going to die as a franchise, I don't want it to end on a cliffhanger!

Nothing for us to do but wait. (And breathe.)

For comparison, Jaws of Hakkon was not released until nearly 5 months after DAI, and that game didn't need nearly as much corrective patching and other touch-ups that would divide a dev team's focus. Descent came out another 5 months after that.

I could see great utility in grenades being simply physical... wouldn't work with some of the special grenades, certainly, but a two-step trigger (to prevent them from being easily activated by biotics) and physical grenades could be a good back-up when engineers shut down your weapons.

That makes them pretty dangerous though, especially if they pack the kind of punch they'd need to overcome ME defenses, and again being designed for use against opponents that can send your grenades back at you. Though I suppose having them be vulnerable to a script kiddie with a wifi connection wouldn't be much better.

[Chen]

That's just it, though. From what I'm hearing, the remainder of the team still working on Andromeda itself will be exclusively focused on game patches and the multiplayer, making it sound like any DLC that could resolve Andromeda's many, MANY cliffhangers have been abandoned. THAT'S what I'm worried about. If Mass Effect IS going to die as a franchise, I don't want it to end on a cliffhanger!

The only real cliffhanger that will be resolved via DLC would probably be the Quarian Ark. The rest of the stuff would be more sequel material I'd think.

[Morty]

Which is in itself a shame, because I think Andromeda seeded potential sequels much better than ME1 did.

[Psyren]

Habitat 7 could be DLC too I think:

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Recovering Papa Ryder's body from a kett faction who want to try and reverse engineer a Pathfinder's SAM implants, for instance, and returning it to Meridian for proper burial.

There's even another vault down there that we haven't explored fully yet.

I agree that the other hooks are more sequel material.

[Chen]

Habitat 7 could be DLC too I think:

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Recovering Papa Ryder's body from a kett faction who want to try and reverse engineer a Pathfinder's SAM implants, for instance, and returning it to Meridian for proper burial.

There's even another vault down there that we haven't explored fully yet.

I agree that the other hooks are more sequel material.

That's fair, though

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Did they really leave his body there?

[LibraryOgre]

That makes them pretty dangerous though, especially if they pack the kind of punch they'd need to overcome ME defenses, and again being designed for use against opponents that can send your grenades back at you. Though I suppose having them be vulnerable to a script kiddie with a wifi connection wouldn't be much better.

They don't really need to be able to punch through defenses reliably, though... they just need to keep people's heads down. If you can rattle their defenses... knock a shield down a bit, encourage them to take cover, etc... you can wait for whatever they've done to your gun to wear off so you can shoot them some more.

[warty goblin]

Eh, the source of the rumor was Kotaku and they tend to go for clicks over full accuracy. I'll wait to see what story DLC we get before I do any rending of my garments and wailing.

It's been fairly well confirmed as these things go, since it came up in the EA investor call.

What I meant is that you've got a military force that routinely employs jumpjets, telekinesis, and even the ability to warp through walls. Not saying grenades would be useless, but they wouldn't be as threatening as they are in our world either.

What's more, their ability to propel metal bits at high velocity can be interfered with by hacking. If I can sabotage a gun to keep it from going off, why not a grenade?

Most of the soldiers one sees in ME don't have those things. A significant proportion of them lack shields, which seems sort of ridiculous given the obviously massive advantages it offers. A lot of the groups in the Mass Effect universe don't even have the excuse of the Covenent's weird quasi-religious approach to technology and giving zero craps about the Grunts. They just think that equipping soldiers with insufficient body armor, guns vulnerable to malware, and a total lack of operational planning or strategy is a good idea, instead favoring the 'send three guys to wander around talking to people and hopefully getting around to solving the problem' approach.


But then again, this is the same universe that has forgotten close air support is a thing. Since ME1 they've even forgotten that guns can be attached to vehicles, leading to a far future battlefield substantially less advanced in many ways than those of 1917. One can only assume that a giant psychic worm is slowly digesting and erasing the universe's collective military knowledge. There are clear signs of this in Andromeda, where some Kett bases will have abandoned and useless gun turrets on the roof; forlorn relics of a forgotten past where ground defenses would attempt to shoot down aircraft, or artillery would provide fire support to friendly units. Now, alas, there is nothing preventing enemy shuttles or ground vehicles from coming right up to the base unchallenged. Note also the return of melee combat over the series to date, as the mind-worm begins to slowly digest the concepts of killing enemies at range, leaving the poor afflicted soldiers of the universe to fall back on space swords and other such oddities. At this rate, by Mass Effect 6, people will be reduced to spears and bows. Super-plasma spears and rocket bows, but spears and bows nonetheless.

That's just it, though. From what I'm hearing, the remainder of the team still working on Andromeda itself will be exclusively focused on game patches and the multiplayer, making it sound like any DLC that could resolve Andromeda's many, MANY cliffhangers have been abandoned. THAT'S what I'm worried about. If Mass Effect IS going to die as a franchise, I don't want it to end on a cliffhanger!

At a guess, I'd say even if ME doesn't die as a franchise (which I actually suspect it won't) we still won't get any DLC that wraps up loose ends from Andromeda. If the game isn't performing that well in sales, there's no reason to throw good money into stuff that's also extremely likely to underperform. Particularly since they aren't going to patch the game into being well written or suddenly full of interesting characters, no matter how many technical problems they hammer out first. Better to start again in a couple years with a relatively clean slate, say skip forwards a hundred years or something in the Andromeda galaxy, use the intervening time and inevitable space disaster to reset a bunch of stuff, and go on from there.

[Psyren]

That's fair, though

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Did they really leave his body there?

Interestingly enough, they don't actually say. It's unlikely he'd have gotten far, but... you'd think there would be some kind of "pay your respects" scene if there was a tastefully appointed coffin containing the former Pathfinder laying around.

It's been fairly well confirmed as these things go, since it came up in the EA investor call.

What was said on that call and what several people, including you, are choosing to read into it (including things like "NO STORY DLC EVER!") are two very different things.

Most of the soldiers one sees in ME don't have those things.

I'm talking about Andromeda here. Even the Exiles with their ramshackle spit-and-chewing-gum equipment have jumpjets, as do the Roekarr.

[Chen]

It's been fairly well confirmed as these things go, since it came up in the EA investor call.

It's not clear what it means though. Pulling people off and making the studio a support one doesn't necessarily mean DLC is all cancelled. Frankly I'd imagine the Quarian DLC was probably already in progress once the game was released. I'd expect at least one DLC to come out. Now if they've significantly reduced resources, the quality of the end of it might be garbage but I suspect it'll still come out.

Most of the soldiers one sees in ME don't have those things. A significant proportion of them lack shields, which seems sort of ridiculous given the obviously massive advantages it offers. A lot of the groups in the Mass Effect universe don't even have the excuse of the Covenent's weird quasi-religious approach to technology and giving zero craps about the Grunts. They just think that equipping soldiers with insufficient body armor, guns vulnerable to malware, and a total lack of operational planning or strategy is a good idea, instead favoring the 'send three guys to wander around talking to people and hopefully getting around to solving the problem' approach.


But then again, this is the same universe that has forgotten close air support is a thing. Since ME1 they've even forgotten that guns can be attached to vehicles, leading to a far future battlefield substantially less advanced in many ways than those of 1917. One can only assume that a giant psychic worm is slowly digesting and erasing the universe's collective military knowledge. There are clear signs of this in Andromeda, where some Kett bases will have abandoned and useless gun turrets on the roof; forlorn relics of a forgotten past where ground defenses would attempt to shoot down aircraft, or artillery would provide fire support to friendly units. Now, alas, there is nothing preventing enemy shuttles or ground vehicles from coming right up to the base unchallenged. Note also the return of melee combat over the series to date, as the mind-worm begins to slowly digest the concepts of killing enemies at range, leaving the poor afflicted soldiers of the universe to fall back on space swords and other such oddities. At this rate, by Mass Effect 6, people will be reduced to spears and bows. Super-plasma spears and rocket bows, but spears and bows nonetheless.

Yeah all this is just due to gameplay/lore separation. It's the reason you can't snipe someone from a mile away despite the fact the guns are almost certainly good for it. Or as someone mentioned why a small metal box is somehow indestructable to extremely high energy weapons fire and biotic/tech explosions.

[warty goblin]

I'm talking about Andromeda here. Even the Exiles with their ramshackle spit-and-chewing-gum equipment have jumpjets, as do the Roekarr.

Funnily enough, if I was shooting at dudes with jumppacks, I'd think some sort of grenade launcher would be very nice. Specifically one that fired programable airburst rounds with optional heat seeking capability. Come to think of it, that seems like a rather handy weapon to use against non-flying guys too, and is definitely something buildable with ME technology. Even in game slapping a homing plasma mod on a Falcon rifle, gets you 90% of the way there.

Yeah all this is just due to gameplay/lore separation. It's the reason you can't snipe someone from a mile away despite the fact the guns are almost certainly good for it. Or as someone mentioned why a small metal box is someone indestructable to extremely high energy weapons fire and biotic/tech explosions.

Yeah, I get that. It mostly just strikes me as 1) funny, because Bioware usually bends over backwards to put in totally unnecessary in-universe justifications for its gameplay tropes *cough*heatsinks*cough* and 2) odd, because plenty of other action games manage to have tanks and aircraft and so on while still being totally credible on-foot shooters.

[Morty]

Pretty much everyone and their mother had shields in ME1, but ME2 introduced the shield/armor/barrier interplay. Lore aside, it works much better. Andromeda dropped barriers as a separate defence type. Not sure if it's for better or worse.

[Psyren]

Pretty much everyone and their mother had shields in ME1, but ME2 introduced the shield/armor/barrier interplay. Lore aside, it works much better. Andromeda dropped barriers as a separate defence type. Not sure if it's for better or worse.

Barriers were "biotically reinforced shields" in every game in the franchise; they were just treated differently in game mechanics terms. In ME1 they were "bonus shields" (bonus HP). In 2 they were minor damage reduction + instant heal. In 3 they were moderate damage reduction with the heal removed. And in MEA, they are a whole pile of buffs (incuding DR and bonus HP but adding speed, weight etc) + emergency heal.

[Inarius]

I'd say slightly, but not totally. Bioware Edmonton is probably not gonna get to lead development on a title again, and it'll probably be another four or five years before the brand gets rolled out again. But it was gonna be a fair number of years until the next game anyway, and really, given the large number of issues that Andromeda has, taking a while to consider how best to proceed with it makes a lot of sense.

Just a minor correction. Its Bioware Montreal not Edmonton that made Andromeda. Edmonton is currently working on an unnamed title followed by the next Dragon Age game. Honestly if Montreal gets knocked back to a support studio I wouldn't be surprised, though again it may just be a temporary thing because prior to ME:A Montreal was a support studio for Bioware. If its a permanent thing then I doubt Edmonton will get around to another ME game for another 5 years or so with their current schedule, of course maybe Bioware Austin would take a crack at it.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

In an effort to talk about more pleasant subjects, anyone tried out the X5 Ghost assault rifle that up until the latest patch has only shown up in cutscenes?

Also, as I the only one who thought the new casual outfit for Ryder that the patch introduced had a pretty tacky double-standard?

[warty goblin]

Just a minor correction. Its Bioware Montreal not Edmonton that made Andromeda. Edmonton is currently working on an unnamed title followed by the next Dragon Age game. Honestly if Montreal gets knocked back to a support studio I wouldn't be surprised, though again it may just be a temporary thing because prior to ME:A Montreal was a support studio for Bioware. If its a permanent thing then I doubt Edmonton will get around to another ME game for another 5 years or so with their current schedule, of course maybe Bioware Austin would take a crack at it.

Oops, my bad, thanks for the correction.

But yeah, it doesn't seem likely that they'd get lead on a new project, at least for a while, and not without some substantial restructuring at some level.

Personally, I'd rather wish they did some lower key side story sorts of games in the ME universe. Sometimes I just wanna be a quasi-ordinary kinda person, ya'know? They could branch out from shooters as well. The mechanics of the setting would make for a really top notch XCOM-alike. Setting it on one or two planets could also be really nice, since the locations could be fleshed out a lot more - no more single biome planets!

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Oops, my bad, thanks for the correction.

But yeah, it doesn't seem likely that they'd get lead on a new project, at least for a while, and not without some substantial restructuring at some level.

Personally, I'd rather wish they did some lower key side story sorts of games in the ME universe. Sometimes I just wanna be a quasi-ordinary kinda person, ya'know? They could branch out from shooters as well. The mechanics of the setting would make for a really top notch XCOM-alike. Setting it on one or two planets could also be really nice, since the locations could be fleshed out a lot more - no more single biome planets!

That'd be AWESOME. Especially if they didn't restrict it to mobile games like Mass Effect: Galaxy and Mass Effect: Infiltrator. Those aren't even in the App Store anymore! :smallfrustrated:

[Morty]

As much as I think the complaints about Andromeda are overblown, I certainly wouldn't mind if BioWare (or rather EA, honestly) eased off on big, open worlds for a while. Non-shooters would be a fine addition to the franchise too. There was some idea-tossing about a Dragon Age turn-based strategy, but nothing has materialized from it yet.

[warty goblin]

That'd be AWESOME. Especially if they didn't restrict it to mobile games like Mass Effect: Galaxy and Mass Effect: Infiltrator. Those aren't even in the App Store anymore! :smallfrustrated:

I know right? They could even do something totally radical like have more than four guns with slight numerical upgrades!

[Dienekes]

I doubt it. The last time Bioware tried to do a small scope story they got DA2 which was pretty disliked.

Though, if I'm lucky, Bioware will take the negative response to this game and decide not to do any more open worlds. That would be nice.

[Psyren]

Oops, my bad, thanks for the correction.

But yeah, it doesn't seem likely that they'd get lead on a new project, at least for a while, and not without some substantial restructuring at some level.

Personally, I'd rather wish they did some lower key side story sorts of games in the ME universe. Sometimes I just wanna be a quasi-ordinary kinda person, ya'know? They could branch out from shooters as well. The mechanics of the setting would make for a really top notch XCOM-alike. Setting it on one or two planets could also be really nice, since the locations could be fleshed out a lot more - no more single biome planets!

Eh, single-biome planets are a well-accepted trope of the genre.

I wouldn't mind a Telltale-style adventure game where you follow around a Turian detective or something. (Chellik?) or Zaeed's son or something.

As much as I think the complaints about Andromeda are overblown, I certainly wouldn't mind if BioWare (or rather EA, honestly) eased off on big, open worlds for a while. Non-shooters would be a fine addition to the franchise too. There was some idea-tossing about a Dragon Age turn-based strategy, but nothing has materialized from it yet.

I doubt it. The last time Bioware tried to do a small scope story they got DA2 which was pretty disliked.

Though, if I'm lucky, Bioware will take the negative response to this game and decide not to do any more open worlds. That would be nice.

Possible, but it's still likely to be offset by all the positive press (and sales) that DAI got. Besides, being open world isn't what hurt Andromeda, minus of course the annoying quests that required planet-hopping.

Whatever negatives open-world has are still offset by the positives they bring to AAA games - namely, the ability to have an entire roomful of developers looking busy for hours on end.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

How's the Venom compared to the Falcon in terms of "grenade launchers disguised as guns" in Andromeda?

[Chen]

Though, if I'm lucky, Bioware will take the negative response to this game and decide not to do any more open worlds. That would be nice.

The open world is more a problem because there's honestly no reason to explore it. There's not enough item variety like in DAI to make wanting to get that shiny new sword a reason. There aren't even that many cool encounters around because most everything is the same. You could have made the open world pretty fun if there was a point in killing those small Kett outposts here and there or the like. Or finding some neat unique things in caves or whatnot. Or even if the quests gave something other than generic money/exp/viability. I mean there wasn't even a neat little montage at the end showing what decisions I made and how they impacted things. You'd think they would have learned from ME3 about that...

[Dienekes]

The open world is more a problem because there's honestly no reason to explore it. There's not enough item variety like in DAI to make wanting to get that shiny new sword a reason. There aren't even that many cool encounters around because most everything is the same. You could have made the open world pretty fun if there was a point in killing those small Kett outposts here and there or the like. Or finding some neat unique things in caves or whatnot. Or even if the quests gave something other than generic money/exp/viability. I mean there wasn't even a neat little montage at the end showing what decisions I made and how they impacted things. You'd think they would have learned from ME3 about that...

For me it's a problem, because I don't like open worlds.

I would rather have a 20 hour game with a tight well written story and great characters, than a 100 hour game that thinks picking flowers and crafting is fun.

[5ColouredWalker]

In an effort to talk about more pleasant subjects, anyone tried out the X5 Ghost assault rifle that up until the latest patch has only shown up in cutscenes?

It's as it says on the tin, an upgraded Avenger... That said, it's a really good upgrade.
PAW's still my favourite.

How's the Venom compared to the Falcon in terms of "grenade launchers disguised as guns" in Andromeda?

Bad.

I'm going to suggest Xaine's world, He's done a video for each weapon type, with an update video as well as one just for the X-5.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I'm going to suggest Xaine's world, He's done a video for each weapon type, with an update video as well as one just for the X-5.

Thank you, 5ColouredWalker! I'll check it out tomorrow when I have some extra time in the evening. :smallhappy:

[Morty]

I doubt it. The last time Bioware tried to do a small scope story they got DA2 which was pretty disliked.

Though, if I'm lucky, Bioware will take the negative response to this game and decide not to do any more open worlds. That would be nice.

DA2 has a lot of problems, but the more contained narrative isn't one of them. Also, it's not the only smaller-scope game BW has done. There's also Mass Effect 2.

Possible, but it's still likely to be offset by all the positive press (and sales) that DAI got. Besides, being open world isn't what hurt Andromeda, minus of course the annoying quests that required planet-hopping.

Whatever negatives open-world has are still offset by the positives they bring to AAA games - namely, the ability to have an entire roomful of developers looking busy for hours on end.

That's probably true, unfortunately.

[Dienekes]

DA2 has a lot of problems, but the more contained narrative isn't one of them. Also, it's not the only smaller-scope game BW has done. There's also Mass Effect 2.

I agree, but look at the games that started development after DA2: DAI and MEA. Both of which focused on giant open maps and crafting systems.

Which is sad, since DA2 was the most interesting premise for a game Bioware has done in recent years. It's only the execution that was terrible, in most the ways that mattered.

[Psyren]

DA2 has a lot of problems, but the more contained narrative isn't one of them. Also, it's not the only smaller-scope game BW has done. There's also Mass Effect 2.

I disagree - even putting Arrival aside and focusing just on the base game, they made it clear that every human world (including Earth itself) was in imminent peril. Those are pretty large stakes.

The open world is more a problem because there's honestly no reason to explore it. There's not enough item variety like in DAI to make wanting to get that shiny new sword a reason. There aren't even that many cool encounters around because most everything is the same. You could have made the open world pretty fun if there was a point in killing those small Kett outposts here and there or the like. Or finding some neat unique things in caves or whatnot. Or even if the quests gave something other than generic money/exp/viability. I mean there wasn't even a neat little montage at the end showing what decisions I made and how they impacted things. You'd think they would have learned from ME3 about that...

I liked the world narratives, those gave me plenty of reason to explore. Helping the resistance on Voeld, or starting our own on Eos... meeting the Angara elders on Havarl... Contrasting Aya with Kadara.... literally anything to do with the Krogan on Elaaden was worth the flight for me. It was only the planet-hopping I hated, and doing any quest on the Nexus other than checking on my sibling.