Natural attacks and Beast Shape PF

[Catarang]

I was looking at the Beast Shape spell and considering how unfamiliar I am with polymorph-like spells (especially PF's stuff) I decided to ask everyone here the following questions:

1) Does Beast Shape grant you the natural attacks of the animal you change into.

2) If it does, does the Transmuter's Shapechange specialist ability grant me a second bite attack if I were to already be in the form of a black bear?

Thanks in advance!

[Florian]

1) Yes and no. Using the Beast Shape line of spells, you gain the most basic natural attacks (Bite, Claw), but the rest depends on what abilities the spell gives. For example, you´d need BS III to gain Rake.

[Necroticplague]

I was looking at the Beast Shape spell and considering how unfamiliar I am with polymorph-like spells (especially PF's stuff) I decided to ask everyone here the following questions:

1) Does Beast Shape grant you the natural attacks of the animal you change into.

2) If it does, does the Transmuter's Shapechange specialist ability grant me a second bite attack if I were to already be in the form of a black bear?

Thanks in advance!

1) Yes.

Polymorph: a polymorph spell transforms your physical body to take on the shape of another creature. While these spells make you appear to be the creature, granting you a +10 bonus on Disguise skill checks, they do not grant you all of the abilities and powers of the creature. Each polymorph spell allows you to assume the form of a creature of a specific type, granting you a number of bonuses to your ability scores and a bonus to your natural armor. In addition, each polymorph spell can grant you a number of other benefits, including movement types, resistances, and senses. If the form you choose grants these benefits, or a greater ability of the same type, you gain the listed benefit. If the form grants a lesser ability of the same type, you gain the lesser ability instead. Your base speed changes to match that of the form you assume. If the form grants a swim or burrow speed, you maintain the ability to breathe if you are swimming or burrowing. The DC for any of these abilities equals your DC for the polymorph spell used to change you into that form.

In addition to these benefits, you gain any of the natural attacks of the base creature, including proficiency in those attacks. These attacks are based on your base attack bonus, modified by your Strength or Dexterity as appropriate, and use your Strength modifier for determining damage bonuses.

Note that some things, in addition to being natural weapons, are also special qualities or attacks, which might disqualify you from getting them (ex: Rake, which needs at least Beast Shape 3).

2. Yep. Nothing in the normal natural weapon rules disallows having two bites, and neither does the Shapechange ability.

[stack]

Pretty sure you are limited to how many limbs you have capable of bearing natural attacks. Two bites requires two heads. Not going to go FAQ diving on my phone though.

[Catarang]

Pretty sure you are limited to how many limbs you have capable of bearing natural attacks. Two bites requires two heads. Not going to go FAQ diving on my phone though.

I see a lot of arguements along these lines but most of them just reference eidolon specific rules and nothing concrete like a specific FAQ. Can anyone give something more specific?

Edit: nevermind, found it:

Natural weapons are weapons that are physically a part of a creature. A creature making a melee attack with a natural weapon is considered armed and does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Likewise, it threatens any space it can reach. Creatures do not receive additional attacks from a high base attack bonus when using natural weapons. The number of attacks a creature can make with its natural weapons depends on the type of the attack—generally, a creature can make one bite attack, one attack per claw or tentacle, one gore attack, one sting attack, or one slam attack (although Large creatures with arms or arm-like limbs can make a slam attack with each arm). Refer to the individual monster descriptions.

[Florian]

And the ability itself bans you from growing extra appendages or limbs.

[Psyren]

Thanks Catarang I was about to post that passage.

Note that that passage does allow you to have both a gore and a bite, despite them both usually occupying the same "limb" (your head.) Few creatures have both, so that is generally going to be a safe bet for Shapechange Specialist.

[Catarang]

Thanks Catarang I was about to post that passage.

Note that that passage does allow you to have both a gore and a bite, despite them both usually occupying the same "limb" (your head.) Few creatures have both, so that is generally going to be a safe bet for Shapechange Specialist.

No problem and good point. Thank you!

Also, kind of a side note but I didn't think it was large enough/enough of a non-sequitur to warrant it's own thread:

Is there anyway to force a save vs. poison on a natural attack? It's no problem if it's not super powerful/useful one but rather it's much more for the flavor of the build.

[Necroticplague]

No problem and good point. Thank you!

Also, kind of a side note but I didn't think it was large enough/enough of a non-sequitur to warrant it's own thread:

Is there anyway to force a save vs. poison on a natural attack? It's no problem if it's not super powerful/useful one but rather it's much more for the flavor of the build.

Beast shape 3 can provide you with the Poison ability of a creature who's shape you take.

[Florian]

@Catarang:

"Shaping" in PF works a bit like this: You flip through the bestiaries to find a suitable critter, then you compare that critters list of abilities to the shape-type of spells you have at hand right now and what special features they would cover.

So, for poison, you´d need to find a poisonous base creature and then look up your BS spells to find that you´d need at least III to get poison. In this case, Vermin Shape would probably the better choice.

[Psyren]

You can also just have someone slather Injury poison on your claws for you. It won't affect you but anyone you damage will be.