sell me on the NE or NW to live (USA)

[Knaight]

The Seattle area is protected from tsunamis by the Puget Sound, so all you have to worry about are earthquakes, volcanoes, and hipsters on unicycles.

Which sounds bad, but on the bright side Seattle isn't exactly in tornado alley, and while there have been forest fires nearby they aren't the terror they are in the southwest (New Mexico in particular, but as someone who lives in Colorado I can think of more than a few that come too close for my liking).

[sleepy hedgehog]

The Seattle area is protected from tsunamis by the Puget Sound, so all you have to worry about are earthquakes, volcanoes, and hipsters on unicycles.

And crazy drivers when there is any amount of snow.
I was told by everyone to just work from home, when it snows. (Which suprising rarely happens)

[kyoryu]

And crazy drivers when there is any amount of snow.
I was told by everyone to just work from home, when it snows. (Which suprising rarely happens)

Yeah. Snow's bad. It's the trifecta of people that don't know how to drive in it or are underequipped, lots of hills, and insufficient infrastructure to control it.

In most cases it's like once a year, at most, so it's not unworkable.

[Erloas]

Well things may have changed. Still planning on going somewhere else, but after talking to my cousin, it seems like he might be able to help me get a really cool job in California. I think the area is missing a lot of what I was specifically looking for and housing is really expensive, but it would be a really cool job.

[2D8HP]

....really cool job in California. I think the area is missing a lot of what I was specifically looking for and housing is really expensive, but it would be a really cool job.

Sorry (PNW has some great bookstores), and congratulations on the job.

Lots of Playgrounders live in California (including me!) so welcome aboard.

[Winter_Wolf]

Well things may have changed. Still planning on going somewhere else, but after talking to my cousin, it seems like he might be able to help me get a really cool job in California. I think the area is missing a lot of what I was specifically looking for and housing is really expensive, but it would be a really cool job.

Hope you did your math on costs vs income. I've known a few people who flat refused promotions because their adjusted pay would put them in a much lower standard of living while still having to be (juuust barely) in a higher tax bracket. I mean, I'm sure parts of California are nice and all, but just make sure of your game plan.

[Knaight]

Hope you did your math on costs vs income. I've known a few people who flat refused promotions because their adjusted pay would put them in a much lower standard of living while still having to be (juuust barely) in a higher tax bracket. I mean, I'm sure parts of California are nice and all, but just make sure of your game plan.

As far as just barely being in a higher tax bracket goes, progressive taxation matters here - the higher tax bracket here only applies to a tiny fraction of your income if you're just barely in the higher tax bracket at all.

[fire_insideout]

Come to Europe, we have castles!

[Erloas]

Come to Europe, we have castles!

That would be really cool if I could do it. I don't think it is practical at this point, but 5-10 years down the line maybe... Can I claim they like they used to? Put on my armour (it goes from armor to armour going from the USA to Europe) and invade, claiming it for my own. They probably wouldn't even notice if I picked one out in the middle of no-where.

As far as just barely being in a higher tax bracket goes, progressive taxation matters here - the higher tax bracket here only applies to a tiny fraction of your income if you're just barely in the higher tax bracket at all.

Yeah, the progressive part makes a pretty big difference. Doing some quick estimates vs the actual progressive the difference with what I estimate to be around what I can expect to make the progressive versus flat tax is about 33% different in the end result.

The job would be cool enough that I would probably take it for even a bit less than I'm making now, but I'm pretty sure it is going to be more anyway. I figure *about* 15% more would make up for the taxes and cost of living. The long term potential at this company is significantly higher than where I'm at now, which I don't think I've got much room to move unless I want to do something even less interesting with more stress.

I had a phone interview on Thursday and it went really well. Just waiting to hear back from them, hopefully some time this week, to see what the next step is, probably an in-person interview.

One other issue is that I have a dog. Do a search for rental places and come up with 4000 listings, narrow it to accepts dogs and it drops to 40. Half of those don't allow larger dogs, and quite a few are in the higher price ranges, so not much for a choice left. I might have to leave him with my brother, at least starting out...

[fire_insideout]

That would be really cool if I could do it. I don't think it is practical at this point, but 5-10 years down the line maybe... Can I claim they like they used to? Put on my armour (it goes from armor to armour going from the USA to Europe) and invade, claiming it for my own. They probably wouldn't even notice if I picked one out in the middle of no-where.

The castles will still be here in 10 years, so there's no rush! Not sure if you can still claim castles, but there's probably some law in some country which allows it

[2D8HP]

I use this way to determine if a place is liveable:

Climate and how does the water taste.

I've found that the further from Highland Hospital in Oakland (where I was born) a place is, the worse the climate and the way the tap water tastes, so the crime rate, employment prospects, schools, and housing stocks need to be enough better to be worth it.

Also in general I avoid travelling anywhere that's more than two miles from a BART station, because there be wilderness with bears and dragons that may eat me, so best to avoid.

I worked the worst ten years of my life in the San Jose area (so I needed to drive, or transfer to CalTrans), it was just awful.

Too hot and foul tasting water.

Don't believe the lies about San Jose being part of the "Bay area". I went to the Alviso neighborhood of San Jose that maps show the shore is, and all I saw was weeds not water!

If you can't see the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge from the highest spot in town, it's probably safer to not linger there, though Seattle did have nice book stores and Portland has Powell's.

San Diego had surprisingly fresh air and a nice marine climate when I briefly visited, but Los Angeles has nothing to recommend it.

NOTHING!

As for other lands?

Bears and dragons, so not safe.

[Erloas]

So you just never want to move? Great that you like it there, but not much for a point of comparison...

This morning I woke up to rain, which isn't bad, but it was pretty much snow by the time I got to work.

I'm thinking that even with the bad LA traffic I probably won't have a much longer commute. It could likely be faster too. Even if it is longer it will probably be a lot shorter, so at least I can save a bit of money there. Probably not in gas, that will be a wash with the higher prices and that my car gets good mileage, but mostly in wear and tear and replacement, as I've put 100k on my car in about 5 years. I would essentially have to live outside of LA to match my commute in mileage, of course at that point my time would be much greater.

Still waiting to hear back. Not actually been that long, but it feels like forever when you're waiting for something like that.

[2D8HP]

Usually housing costs and employment go hand in hand though, cheap houses usually mean no work and high prices usually means the area pays pretty well, if not the market wouldn't support those costs...

Well things may have changed. Still planning on going somewhere else, but after talking to my cousin, it seems like he might be able to help me get a really cool job in California..

...I figure *about* 15% more would make up for the taxes and cost of living....

Hahaha!

*snort*

Ha!

"The market wouldn't support those costs"

That's cute.

(Now on the floor laughing)

In San Francisco we have people with jobs who sleep in tents on the sidewalk.

I've personally worked with folks who live in vans and have gym memberships to shower.

They see there children and spouses on weekends when they're not working overtime.

If you come to San Francisco, you will find a job fairly easily, but a place to live?

Expect to commute at least four hours a day after spending most of your income in rent and still having less space than you're used to.

...I'm thinking that even with the bad LA traffic I probably won't have a much longer commute...

Los Angeles, not San Jose or San Francisco?

Must be a very cool job

OK, it's been a long time since I've been there, but LA is much cheaper than SF and SJ, and the commute is a bit worse during rush hour, but weekend traffic is far lighter than SF (as I explained to my boss overtime pay is nowhere near enough to get me to every try to cross the Bay Bridge after 8AM on a Saturday, it's worse than Monday morning!).

The air and water in LA tastes foul to me, but the people are friendlier and the museums are nice, otherwise I don't know LA too well, nearby San Diego seemed really nice though.

Santa Cruz, and Santa Barbara are nice as well, but I would avoid Sacramento and Stockton.

With light traffic you can drive from LA to San Diego in less than two hours.

My aunt's husband (uncle in law?) was able to drive from L.A. to Oakland in just under 8 hours (so add 20 minutes to 3 hours depending on traffic to get to S.F.), but he drove like a demon to do it, more typically the trip takes 14 to 20 hours (western states are not as small as east coast states).

When I grew up, people in S.F. looked down on L.A., but folks in L.A. never noticed (my mom grew up in Orange County, which is near LA). There's also the "SoCal" accent ("Surfer dude", and "Valley girl") which I still find punishing to hear, but it now seems that the majority of Californians under 30 years old now speak with it!

Strangely when you go further north to places like Lodi and Stockton, you will hear what sounds to my ears like "southern" (Mississippi, Texas, etc.) accents, when you hear those accents (or Spanish) then typically the cost of living is less but jobs are scarce. Before 2009 I knew dozens of guys who would drive 100+ miles from Stockton to San Jose because they wanted to be "homeowners".

Speaking of Spanish speakers, when I used to work in the "walled city" (Palo Alto), I would see many riding bicycles to work before sunrise on the few open paths from East Palo Alto (yes there literally is a wall at the eastern border of Palo Alto!).

Some very big extremes of wealth and poverty are in California, I was particularly struck by the contrast between Atherton, with its huge "Downton Abbey" style homes on giant lots, and the next door mostly Spanish speaking modest community of River Oaks. My time spent working in "Silicon Valley" made me wonder when the tumbrills were coming!

[Erloas]

I said generally, not always the case. Especially places like California where people will pay a premium for the weather.

Of course I also didn't mean an equivalent place to live, just a place to live. I had a house that was over 3000sqft. Now I'll have an apartment that is 400-800sqft. The cost will be anywhere from -$200 to $600 of what I was paying for the house. Hard to say where I'll end up, having not seen any of the apartments outside of a few pics online.

Of course the upkeep and secondary costs of an apartment will also be a lot less than a house of that size.

[Erloas]

Well I've got a second phone interview coming up soon, maybe even this week.

Looked more closely at cost of living and really the only thing out of line is housing which I've already known. Everything else is pretty close. Gas is more expensive, but given a shorter commute and that my car gets good mileage I don't see that as being an issue. Checked that with Gas Buddy. And someone tried to tell me groceries would be a lot more but pulled up weekly ads online and it seems that it is pretty much the same or a bit cheaper. I would expect California to have pretty good prices on produce especially since so much is grown there.

Not sure where I want to go with housing yet... I just don't think purchasing anything is even an option at this point. But there seems to be some very nice apartments and condos/townhouses for rent and some that look ok but not great. There are also individuals with rooms to rent. There is going to be a big difference in total price then and I'm just not sure what is worth it right now...

edit: one other thing I'm not sure on since its been about 12 years since I've lived in an apartment, quite a few say high speed internet access... now that could mean they've got the wiring for you to buy it, it could mean they've got it in their community builds, and it could mean that it is included in each unit. Of course if it is in all the units it could also mean you've got next to no real connection speed... anyone have any clue on that?

[Xyril]

What are you into doing and where in California would you be? In some places, there's great public transportation that takes you further out enough that housing prices are something resembling reasonable. For a lot of people I know, commuting an hour or two to work isn't a major sacrifice because they can read or listen to podcasts, something they'd probably being doing for ten or twenty hours a week at home anyway. This is generally a viable option if you'd be working somewhere like SF or Palo Alto, much less so somewhere like L.A.

[Erloas]

It would be a tech job in... I think it is western Los Angeles, maybe southwestern, not sure how and where they make their distinctions. I'm not even sure I would say "close to" anything because I don't have much of a sense for scale for the area so it could be a lot farther than it looks. It seems reasonably close to LAX.

I think starting out its going to be an apartment, which shouldn't be that long of a commute. Once a year or two is down and things are going well I can look at finding a place.

[KerfuffleMach2]

Might be a little late, but might I suggest somewhere in Michigan? No ocean access, but a lot of lakes. Including most of the Great Lakes.

Definitely get four seasons here. Spring and fall might be a bit short, but they're there. And the winters usually aren't that bad.

Job market is growing here. Not sure what work you're looking for, though.

As far as I know, the cost of living here is pretty good overall. I think.

[Xyril]

It would be a tech job in... I think it is western Los Angeles, maybe southwestern, not sure how and where they make their distinctions. I'm not even sure I would say "close to" anything because I don't have much of a sense for scale for the area so it could be a lot farther than it looks. It seems reasonably close to LAX.

I think starting out its going to be an apartment, which shouldn't be that long of a commute. Once a year or two is down and things are going well I can look at finding a place.

The nice thing about L.A. is that it's actually not super expensive by California standards. Housing is expensive (but not Northern California expensive) and taxes are high, and that will have an unavoidable impact on the price of pretty much everything, but food is good and not horribly expensive (groceries and eating out), particularly if you're into ethnic cuisine at all. Public transportation is a joke, though, and it's very much a driving city, so commute time is pretty much 100% time lost.

[Peelee]

And the winters usually aren't that bad.

That's the dirtiest lie what was ever lied. My wife's got family up there. We went for Thanksgiving one year. Michigan fall was the worst winter I've ever experienced.

[KerfuffleMach2]

That's the dirtiest lie what was ever lied. My wife's got family up there. We went for Thanksgiving one year. Michigan fall was the worst winter I've ever experienced.

I mean, in the Upper Peninsula? Yeah. Bad winters.

But southern Michigan? Usually pretty good. I mean, yeah, we get a good amount of snow and cold. But it usually stays above 0F. And we usually don't get more than 6 inches of snow at once.

Except for the winter of 2013-2014...That was a bad one...*shudders*

[Peelee]

I mean, in the Upper Peninsula? Yeah. Bad winters.

But southern Michigan? Usually pretty good. I mean, yeah, we get a good amount of snow and cold. But it usually stays above 0F. And we usually don't get more than 6 inches of snow at once.

Except for the winter of 2013-2014...That was a bad one...*shudders*

Nah, the mitten. And "usually above 0º F" is cold comfort to the Deep South. It was 2012, so I dunno how bad it was that year. Pretty damn bad, far as I was concerned.

[KerfuffleMach2]

Nah, the mitten. And "usually above 0º F" is cold comfort to the Deep South. It was 2012, so I dunno how bad it was that year. Pretty damn bad, far as I was concerned.

That one was about average.

Yeah, if you're from the south, then any winter here is bad. If you're used to winters, though, then ours aren't bad.

The one I mentioned? We got colder than Siberia. Hell, we got colder than parts of Mars.

[Peelee]

That one was about average.

Yeah, if you're from the south, then any winter here is bad. If you're used to winters, though, then ours aren't bad.

I maintain that the trip was an assassination attempt on my life. If they'd have held off a year, it sounds like they may very well have succeeded.

[KerfuffleMach2]

Heh.

Well, visit in the summer, then. You can laugh at us complaining about the heat when it hits 90.

[Erloas]

LA wouldn't have been my first choice but the job would be cool.
Other thing I'm thinking about is a liveaboard boat in a marina. Would be a huge change but should be a fair amount cheaper and I really want a boat too. But getting a truck to pull a boat and a boat and a place to store them simply isn't going to happen in an apartment.

[2D8HP]

Heh.

Well, visit in the summer, then. You can laugh at us complaining about the heat when it hits 90.

In some neighborhoods in San Francisco (and some nearby communities like Pacifica) it's a good bet that the temperature will be in the 50's (Fahrenheit), day or night, winter or summer.

[Peelee]

In some neighborhoods in San Francisco (and some nearby communities like Pacifica) it's a good bet that the temperature will be in the 50's (Fahrenheit), day or night, winter or summer.

I've heard how "the coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco," but.... wow, that's crazy.

[KerfuffleMach2]

In some neighborhoods in San Francisco (and some nearby communities like Pacifica) it's a good bet that the temperature will be in the 50's (Fahrenheit), day or night, winter or summer.

I'd be okay with that. Not a fan of heat.

[2D8HP]

I've heard how "the coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco," but.... wow, that's crazy.

Naw, crazy is 50 miles away in places like Livermore where sometime every winter it gets below freezing, and sometime every summer it gets above 100.



Forget that mess!

I'd be okay with that. Not a fan of heat.

Preach it!