Making a "generic fantasy kitchen-sink" setting, but doing it right

[PhoenixPhyre]

I have this urge to make a generic fantasy kitchen-sink setting (aimed at D&D 5e). My guiding criteria:

• All published 1st party material should have a place
• The setting should require a minimum of explanation
• The setting should have a wide variety of possible adventures (from politics to pirates to interplanar problems and beyond)
• Different regions should possibly have different magic levels (from low-fantasy to magitech empires)

Things I don't really care about:

• earthlike geology or ecology
• complex sociology in the main cultures

How should I go about making a world like that while still enabling player engagement and buy-in? Any traps to avoid?

[jqavins]

OK, I'll get the ball rolling with my advice, for what it's worth.

First of all, I don't know 5e at all, So I'm just talking about how I might do a kitchen sink setting (If I wanted to; the setting I have in mind is the opposite in some ways, but never mind that.)

• Include lots of stuff, but don't get too hung up on including everything. "Everything" may be achievble today, but look at how much stuff is out there for 3.5e. Any world containing all of that would be so heavy it would collapse into a back hole, and I just bet 5e will go the same way in a few years.
• Separate things geographically. Put OE in one place, Greyhawk somewhere else, FR on a different continent, etc. PCs and NPCs alike can come from strange and far away lands, that's a venerable trope I am not advising you throw away, but don't try to integrate everything into one culture. Yes, I know you said you said you don't care about compex sociology, but putting it all in one pace would inevitably become comlpex, and so much so that it would quickly become nonsense.
• Add "realistic economy and politics" to your don't care list. You can have economics and politics in the game, but if you try to make it realistic that way lies madness. Even in more focussed settings it's really, really hard, and in a kitchen sink setting I have a feeling that, if you try to make them make sense, madness is just around the corner.
• Does 5e have an Exotic Weapon Proficiency requirement like 3.5e? If so, consider eliminating it. I didn't just say "eliminate it," but think about it. There will be lots of exotic weapons about, and you may not want to charge a hefty price for using them. Characters coming in from afar will have proficiency with weapons that are not exotic to them and need to pay the price to learn to use local weapons. It could get messy; it would be simpler to eliminate it, and you may or may not want to do so. Maybe roll play a modest learning curve but don't make them take a feat or equivalent.
• Think about what you want to do for casters getting access to spells their foreign counterparts have. This is probably not hard, but think about it and decide what you want to do ahead of time.

That's all I've got, at least for now.

[sktarq]

You could change "exotic weapon proficiency (X)" to "special weapons training: (X)" which explains a lot really. Using a bastard sword one handed in a combat effective way isn't "exotic" and many weapons that have the requirement are flat out better than normal weapons to justify the feat opportunity cost.

[Cluedrew]

I would use regions, each region takes a different slant on the setting and combined you have just about everything. Almost like a multiverse (or planscape or starjammer) except connect the regions in ways that everyday people can traverse, if they have sufficient inclination. However "sufficient" should also be rather high, to keep them from merging together. Done right you should just have to explain the general method and the region the current campaign is set in. Anything you want in that section that does not belong could have wondered in from elsewhere.

[White Blade]

I have this urge to make a generic fantasy kitchen-sink setting (aimed at D&D 5e). My guiding criteria:

• All published 1st party material should have a place
• The setting should require a minimum of explanation
• The setting should have a wide variety of possible adventures (from politics to pirates to interplanar problems and beyond)
• Different regions should possibly have different magic levels (from low-fantasy to magitech empires)

Things I don't really care about:

• earthlike geology or ecology
• complex sociology in the main cultures

How should I go about making a world like that while still enabling player engagement and buy-in? Any traps to avoid?

Alright, so I'm trying to do something like this this, so let's hit on some major points that are necessary to start playing:

You need a place for all first party races: Elf, Dwarf, Halfling, Human, Tiefling, Dragonborn, Gnome, Half-Elf, Half-Orc, Aasimar, Genasi, Goliath, Triton, Lizardfolk, Kenku, Tabaxi, Firbolg, Orc, Goblin, Hobgoblin, Bugbear, Aarocka, Yuan-Ti.

Yeah, it's a lot, but you said everything. Draw some mountains and forests together, Europe-style, and then put a river flowing down the mountains into the forest and to the ocean.

Humans live at the bottom of the river, dwarves live in the mountain, elves live in the woods, and halflings live on the river. The players should be able to grasp this efficiently. Give each culture a single, distinguishing feature to hang onto. (The elves hunt dragons, for example) Something that makes them unique, but not super-different. That's the core four - Tieflings are exiles and wanderers, proto-gypsy figures, so they don't need a specific space. They take up residence where they can and make their way as they can. Half-elves are a cross-breed. Aasimar are blessed humans. Gnomes might live in the forest or on the mountain, but they can also be from further away - Again, a single cultural feature should be enough to distinguish them, but you want them close by, they're in the Player's Handbook after all. Dragonborn are a bit trickier, but you could go a couple of ways - Give them an empire somewhere else, with a colony (think Corinth during the Roman period) on the outskirt of the elves forest. On the other side of the forest-mountain-river basin that is the campaigns homestead, put in some orcs. That gets you half-orcs. Tritons can live off the coast, trading with the sea-faring humans. Underneath the mountain, put drow and goblinoids, having it out and also creeping upward toward the nations.

To vary the magic level, you should vary the magic of each location - And the result should be more sorcerers. Low magic areas produce basically only wizards, which is a painstaking and very expensive career choice, whereas high magic areas produce lots of sorcerers. There's some cross polination, but if sorcery is as tied to ground as it is to blood, you've got a ready made explanation for why most low magic areas are low magic. Thankfully, you're including basically all the monsters in the books, so "why don't sorcerers move from point A to point B and conquer it" has the explanation "Krakens! Dragons! Hags! Sphinxes! More Dragons! Genies! All sorts of bat**** crazy magical hazards!"

You've got a port, which you should put into a mediterranean style sea (which are criminally neglected in fantasy settings because of the historical Europeanism of the settings) that goes to dozens of places you might want to go. Ports that give way to every possible setting, Arabian Nights, Oriental Adventures, ectera. You've also had many empires rise and fall - Our world has been around about 4,000 years and we've got all these cool tombs to loot, so don't overdo it. Draw the ports, name them English names that are descriptive and assume that it's just the common nickname for them. When you need more, write civilizations away from the mediterranean sea.

[the_david]

Have you considered turning your thought process upside down?

Just start with a village, a couple of hooks for your players and go from there. Tell them they can play anything they want as long as it first party material and you're good to go.
If you want to go a step further, ask your players to write a background for their characters. Let them include stuff like the deities they worship, motivation for adventuring, a nemesis. Then you can build a campaign (setting) around the PCs instead of the other way around.

It might not be generic, but your players will love it. (Maybe)

[Yora]

One thing to figure out early is why you don't want to simply use an existing setting like Forgotten Realms or Eberron, which I think already qualify for most of the listed criteria.

I believe your plan could be described as creating a map for the world implied by the three rulebooks of 5th edition. If you want to use everything that is in them, then I think a good way to start is to create a country for each race. Deciding the landscape for each race should be quite easy if you keep things generic. The elven land is a forest, the dwarf land is mountains, and so on. For some of the minor races you might not give them their own country but have them be a minority living in one of the lands of the major races.

When you have this list completed, you just have to arrange them on a simple map. Then add one or two major cities to each land that don't really need any true description as they are generic (elf city, dwarf city, ...), and draw some big rivers and major roads to connect them. I think then you should already be pretty far into the process. The gods already exist. Perhaps you still have to decide which gods have temples in which countries, but this takes care of that.

Do the PHB and DMG already contain some kind of origin story for the gods and races? If yes, you can simply use that. If not, I wouldn't bother with that. It's really an element that almost never comes up in campaigns unless the campaign is specifically about continuing the ancient conflicts of the gods.

With that groundwork laid, I think you already have everything in place to just start playing and add new villages, NPCs, and dungeons as you go along.

[jqavins]

[Y]ou've got a ready made explanation for why most low magic areas are low magic.

I don't see the explanation here. Not that an explanation is really necessay.

While on the subject of low magic regions, consider this. Why do people live there? Magic is so common and so useful in a D&D setting that living in a low magic area seems a little like living in the desert; why in the world would a culture choose to do it? Of course, peope and cultures do live in deserts, and for various reasons. Some reasons are mineral wealth, living there before desertification and clinging to home, and it was vacant and uncontestesd. And there are many more. All these might apply to a low magic region, as well as it's highly fertile (and conversely a desert region could be desirable for high magic.)

Or am I looking for too much unwanted "complex sociology?" Sometimes I can't help it.

[Newtonsolo313]

I don't see the explanation here. Not that an explanation is really necessay.

While on the subject of low magic regions, consider this. Why do people live there? Magic is so common and so useful in a D&D setting that living in a low magic area seems a little like living in the desert; why in the world would a culture choose to do it? Of course, peope and cultures do live in deserts, and for various reasons. Some reasons are mineral wealth, living there before desertification and clinging to home, and it was vacant and uncontestesd. And there are many more. All these might apply to a low magic region, as well as it's highly fertile (and conversely a desert region could be desirable for high magic.)

Or am I looking for too much unwanted "complex sociology?" Sometimes I can't help it.

It could be as simple as "there aren't as many dragons here because the magic level is lower" or "I've lived here my whole life"

[chase0351]

1. Regions for every race. (What everyone above said)
2. Gods make a god/goddess for every domain. Your clerics need something to give them spells.
3. Make an outsider for each warlock pact.
4. Make a nice forest for your druids and rangers.
5. Give your fighters a fighters guild and a tavern, oh and a coliseum.
6. Read all the backgrounds in the phb. Make sure there are things in the world that let those backgrounds happen.
7. Make some remote temples with no apparent source of food nestled in some dramatically high mountains for your monks and people with the hermit background.
8. Actually make a town that just completely embodies one of the backgrounds in the phb. Do that for every background.
9. Give the wizards schools to learn their magic stuff from. Or guilds. Or both.

Or if all that is too much work and you don't wan.mt to make it as you go and build off your players decisions during the game and afterwards, you can just take a gander at all the gazettes from the Mystara setting. Generic done right, that is.

[jqavins]

1. Regions for every race. (What everyone above said)

No I didn't.

2. Gods make a god/goddess for every domain. Your clerics need something to give them spells.

Are there not enough deities already provided in all the source books that Phoenix Phyre is set to use? Why make more?

I look at this:

I have this urge to make a generic fantasy kitchen-sink setting (aimed at D&D 5e). My guiding criteria:

• All published 1st party material should have a place
• The setting should require a minimum of explanation

and think that the best way to accomplish the second bullet is to reword it as

I have this urge to make a generic fantasy kitchen-sink setting (aimed at D&D 5e). My guiding criteria:

• All published 1st party material should have a place
• Use ONLY published material, mainly 1st party material, wherever possible

For the map that includes all 1st party material it is not possible to use only published material, but it is in order to come as close as possible that I suggested a region for each published setting, not a region for each race. Published settings include the races interacting in ways that would change drastically if they are segregated geographically, and that requires explanation.

[Beastrolami]

For my generic Kitchen Sink world is look at the encounter tables in MM. They list monsters by region, grassland, hills, mountains, forest, etc. I just took each region and turned it into a setpiece of the world. Rohan-esque grassland nation, Large Metropolis for urban, etc. They also include the underdark, and infernal/abyssal/elemental planes, so It forces you to think about how those will interact with the world. It makes for a very geologically simplistic (and unrealistic world) but as a kitchen sink setting, I've found that I can cram a lot of lore into it without having to force it down my player's throats.

[lt_murgen]

How should I go about making a world like that while still enabling player engagement and buy-in? Any traps to avoid?

Realize that by keeping the world generic, you keep your storylines generic. It is hard to discuss political intrigue, or war, or invasion from other planes of existence without having some reason for it to happen.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Thanks everyone for the advice. Individual responses are in spoilers for length.

Spoiler: lt_murgen

Show

Realize that by keeping the world generic, you keep your storylines generic. It is hard to discuss political intrigue, or war, or invasion from other planes of existence without having some reason for it to happen.

I meant generic as in "not having a particular thematic twist." Individual areas would be fleshed out more and have motivations. I don't intend to do politics here--more dungeon-crawling and exploration. I'm really really bad at complex political stuff.

Spoiler: Beastrolami

Show

For my generic Kitchen Sink world is look at the encounter tables in MM. They list monsters by region, grassland, hills, mountains, forest, etc. I just took each region and turned it into a setpiece of the world. Rohan-esque grassland nation, Large Metropolis for urban, etc. They also include the underdark, and infernal/abyssal/elemental planes, so It forces you to think about how those will interact with the world. It makes for a very geologically simplistic (and unrealistic world) but as a kitchen sink setting, I've found that I can cram a lot of lore into it without having to force it down my player's throats.

I like this idea. I wish there were more published monster lists by region--where's the jungle list (for example)?

Spoiler: jgavins

Show

For the map that includes all 1st party material it is not possible to use only published material, but it is in order to come as close as possible that I suggested a region for each published setting, not a region for each race. Published settings include the races interacting in ways that would change drastically if they are segregated geographically, and that requires explanation.

I'm fine with mixing and matching and filing off mis-matched lore where needed. Also since I'm looking at 5e, there's only one real published setting with a lot of fluff in it. 1st-party-only (ie no 3rd party and minimal homebrewed changes to published material) is a good rule though.

I don't see the explanation here. Not that an explanation is really necessay.

While on the subject of low magic regions, consider this. Why do people live there? Magic is so common and so useful in a D&D setting that living in a low magic area seems a little like living in the desert; why in the world would a culture choose to do it? Of course, peope and cultures do live in deserts, and for various reasons. Some reasons are mineral wealth, living there before desertification and clinging to home, and it was vacant and uncontestesd. And there are many more. All these might apply to a low magic region, as well as it's highly fertile (and conversely a desert region could be desirable for high magic.)

Or am I looking for too much unwanted "complex sociology?" Sometimes I can't help it.

On a separate topic, I was thinking also about a different world (probably would require serious homebrew to do right) where intelligent races can only function in areas where magic has been dampened somehow (either naturally or artificially). The idea was that the ancestors of the intelligent races had arrived relatively late and been mutated by the ambient magical energies into the other intelligent races and that the non-intelligent monsters had arisen from the imported livestock. The only native races would be dragons (in their elemental exemplar aspect) and demons (beings of pure magical energy). But that's a different setting inspired by your question.

Spoiler: Yora

Show

One thing to figure out early is why you don't want to simply use an existing setting like Forgotten Realms or Eberron, which I think already qualify for most of the listed criteria.

I believe your plan could be described as creating a map for the world implied by the three rulebooks of 5th edition. If you want to use everything that is in them, then I think a good way to start is to create a country for each race. Deciding the landscape for each race should be quite easy if you keep things generic. The elven land is a forest, the dwarf land is mountains, and so on. For some of the minor races you might not give them their own country but have them be a minority living in one of the lands of the major races.

I like this basic idea but plan to do more mixing of racial groups. I don't particularly like the idea of racially-segregated kingdoms. Seems highly artificial. Yeah, you'll have nations with a majority race, but many will be mixed.

[Vogie]

I think that the best way to do that is a multiverse angle, but in a slightly different approach.

Create a "leftovers" setting, an planar island, or in-between plane that has portals to various other planes and settings. From these portals, bits and pieces of their respective planes and settings will fall into this in-between world - usually, this is junk, trash, things that were lost, but also occasionally herds, refugees, adventurers & other wanderers, and a random deadly beast now and again.

Instead of having to worry about keeping track of all of those settings simultaneously, they all exist in their own universes. On this mini-plane, there's a mix of random races, living together basically by requirement. However, the attitudes of the people fall into about two factions:

• Isolationists - Those who think the portals should be largely avoided. Sure, there's no problem grabbing the objects that come through - a plow is a plow, regardless where it came from - but they are very antagonistic towards any creature that comes out of them. They are, of course, ignoring the fact that they or their ancestors came from those portals as well. This is the large percentage of the population of the plane.
• Non-isolationists - The rest of the inhabitants, who think and act positively towards the portals. There should be a small branch that is basically a Cargo Cult, but the bulk of them are just people trying to survive, and are shunned by the isolationists

What this does is gives you a really simple miniplane that allows you to draw from any sources you desire, and explains any of the issues on why Things from various settings converge. The PCs can use these portals to wander into any type of other setting - Magitech, lowmagic, highmagic, et cetera - by finding the appropriate portals. On their destination planes, the portals will often be in fairly random, out of the way places - deep in the woods, at the bottom of a lake, hidden in caves, here be dragons, and so on - but are very pronounced and obvious on the island plane. They may look like a rift in space, something crafted, something natural (like in a tree or cave), or may be a portal that has the appearance of a fountain, pond or bottomless pit.

Spoiler: Portals may look like...

Show

3rd Party Ideas to draw from:

• The planet Sakaar, from the Marvel Universe
• House's asteroid-sized pocket dimension, from the Doctor Who episode "The Doctor's Wife"
• The Neitherlands, from "The Magicians"
• The Woods Between the Worlds, from CS Lewis' "The Magician's Nephew"

[jqavins]

I think that the best way to do that is a multiverse angle, but in a slightly different approach.

Create a "leftovers" setting, an planar island, or in-between plane that has portals to various other planes and settings...

Interesting idea. I have a feeling it's not what Phoenix Phyre is looking for - I should let him speak to that - but I like it as another sort of setting.

[T]he attitudes of the people fall into about two factions:

• Isolationists - Those who think the portals should be largely avoided. Sure, there's no problem grabbing the objects that come through - a plow is a plow, regardless where it came from - but they are very antagonistic towards any creature that comes out of them. They are, of course, ignoring the fact that they or their ancestors came from those portals as well. This is the large percentage of the population of the plane.
• Non-isolationists - The rest of the inhabitants, who think and act positively towards the portals. There should be a small branch that is basically a Cargo Cult, but the bulk of them are just people trying to survive, and are shunned by the isolationists

Sounds like American politics.

[PhoenixPhyre]

I think that the best way to do that is a multiverse angle, but in a slightly different approach.

Create a "leftovers" setting, an planar island, or in-between plane that has portals to various other planes and settings. From these portals, bits and pieces of their respective planes and settings will fall into this in-between world - usually, this is junk, trash, things that were lost, but also occasionally herds, refugees, adventurers & other wanderers, and a random deadly beast now and again.

Instead of having to worry about keeping track of all of those settings simultaneously, they all exist in their own universes. On this mini-plane, there's a mix of random races, living together basically by requirement. However, the attitudes of the people fall into about two factions:

• Isolationists - Those who think the portals should be largely avoided. Sure, there's no problem grabbing the objects that come through - a plow is a plow, regardless where it came from - but they are very antagonistic towards any creature that comes out of them. They are, of course, ignoring the fact that they or their ancestors came from those portals as well. This is the large percentage of the population of the plane.
• Non-isolationists - The rest of the inhabitants, who think and act positively towards the portals. There should be a small branch that is basically a Cargo Cult, but the bulk of them are just people trying to survive, and are shunned by the isolationists

What this does is gives you a really simple miniplane that allows you to draw from any sources you desire, and explains any of the issues on why Things from various settings converge. The PCs can use these portals to wander into any type of other setting - Magitech, lowmagic, highmagic, et cetera - by finding the appropriate portals. On their destination planes, the portals will often be in fairly random, out of the way places - deep in the woods, at the bottom of a lake, hidden in caves, here be dragons, and so on - but are very pronounced and obvious on the island plane. They may look like a rift in space, something crafted, something natural (like in a tree or cave), or may be a portal that has the appearance of a fountain, pond or bottomless pit.

Spoiler: Portals may look like...

Show

3rd Party Ideas to draw from:

• The planet Sakaar, from the Marvel Universe
• House's asteroid-sized pocket dimension, from the Doctor Who episode "The Doctor's Wife"
• The Neitherlands, from "The Magicians"
• The Woods Between the Worlds, from CS Lewis' "The Magician's Nephew"

That's a really interesting idea. I think I'd want that to be it's own setting concept instead of trying to cheapen it by using in a generic dungeon-crawl/break down doors, kill stuff, take their lewts manner like I was envisioning.

Sigh...guess I shouldn't have asked this question here. Now I have more ideas for settings than I have time to either create them or (especially) groups to play them with. A veritable embarrassment of riches...